dom

Almost always yes.

But not when Kobe is involved.

F-C

Stop insulting the Human Highlight Film's good name.

Palayah8ta

How can u say that? Look at the matchups.. u will still run into a problem in the 5 spot.. Lamar will still get worked by perkins.. and the bench will get raped again.. cmon naww

Mokos23

yes it's possible

Silver_Surfer

Exactly! Well said.

jlukja

Are you effin' kidding me?

You forgot to add Karl Malone, he was waaaay better before Kobe ruined his game.

Silver_Surfer

Nah Malone just got way old and didn't have Stockton to pass him to ball for easy layups.

But more than likely Malone was dis-interested in the game during his Laker days because Kobe hardly passed him the ball.

CarbonGray Earl

Really? Didn't seem like it when they were playing together. But if that's what you're going to go with....

JediMindTricks

who's blaming gasol, odom, farmar, etc? most of the lakers fans or pro-lakers/kobe are saying NOBODY showed up. and the lakers fans are putting the onus on kobe too.

while i agree that kobe hasn't really made his teammates better over the years, let's see what he can do in the next several seasons before he retires.

this is the first season where he seems to have matured and bought into his team. it's not impossible that over the next few seasons, as he continues to get better and better players around him, they can improve under his tutelage.

however, i don't agree with the players you listed.

1. GP: the reason why GP was so out of sorts for the lakers (well, other than injuries) is that he was resorted to being a spot up shooter. the ball was hardly in his hands, and he wasn't the playmaker that he normally was. with the lakers' offense, he just stood around for open shots.

2. glen rice: same as GP. his best years in charlotte, he had the entire offense built around him and was given the luxury of shooting 20-25 shots. when you shoot that many, you're going to score and look better. injuries also got the best of him, and he was no longer a decent to above avg defender that he was with the hornets and heat.

3. LO: some will argue that his game actually has improved, but he just couldn't find consistency. is that kobe's fault? i think the bigger problem with odom is that he doesn't have the mental makeup to "take over"...and once again, that can't be blamed on kobe.

4. rodman: seriously? did he play better after LA? c'mon.

5. ho-grant: see #4.

6. caron butler: this is the only player that played well before and after kobe. however, he's gone on record of saying that playing with kobe improved his game tremendously, and it's been written that he was one of few players that kobe trusted.

7. shaq: so what if he won a title after he left? just like his lakers days, there was no way he would have won on his own. this has been discussed on AZ, but d-wade was a monster during the finals. shaq's numbers were piss poor. since the title, what has shaq done?

data mining: Data mining is the process of sorting through large amounts of data and picking out relevant information.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_mining

other than LO and butler, you picked players that were well past their primes when they joined the lakers. of course, they're going to look bad playing 3rd or 4th fiddle when they joined LA.

remember, even MJ had to fight the stigma of not making his teammates better until he finally won a ring. that was 7 years of being the top dog on his team.

if you'd rather take those guys over kobe, that's fine. it's your opinion. you're entitled to it.

but your logic is flawed, as mentioned, you're too narrow minded, and i find myself wondering why i'm wasting my time with you.

dom

I fully expect the Lakers to win a championship or two over the next few years. You have to learn to lose before you can learn to win. In the playoffs that is.

Yumcha

I fully expect Nique Bryant to win a championship or two over the next few years. You have to whine alot after you lose to management for a new coach, more players and pylons, in order to win. In the playoffs that is.

dom

Did Bryant ever play for the Red Wings

CarbonGray Earl

I find your comments funny, but the_Osk just looks like he's rubbed the absolute wrong way by Kobe.

BTW, I loved nique growing up....but I think VC is a modern day Nique more so than Kobe.

Yumcha

He's trying to be like MJ and play two sports...?!?? SHOCKER.

Yumcha

But, if Bryant played hockey...he'd be the second coming of Sidney Crosby's mouthflapping at refs.

JediMindTricks

and

and at the moment, kobe is, frankly, a poor man's jordan. nothing wrong with that.

savage

if Bryant played hockey he would set a record for airtime after the first open ice check...

dom

Don't insult Nique.

CarbonGray Earl

Ron Harper's got the rights to that name already.

JediMindTricks

ron harper was a stuttering man's jordan.

Yumcha

Well then...he's realllllllly poor. Like Calcutta slums poor.

CarbonGray Earl

L-L-L-LOL

Am I bad person for laughing at his interviews when he was on the Lakers?

Palayah8ta

ya know wats bugs me.. if LA had a 3 point shooter like Peja, Boston would get burned on ever possession. This is why when Sasha and radmonovic are so important.. fukin A..

Yumcha

Dude. Fisher's the 3-point specialist on the Lakers.

CarbonGray Earl

Ya, but Boston had guys that can shoot the 3 and play D. Sash and Rad can shoot, but can't D it up as well as Boston did.

Keep your head up. It won't take 22 years to get another one, trust me.

jlukja

^^

His 3-point shooting is not what keeps him in the lineup so I wouldn't call him a 3-point specialist. Sasha and VladRad are.

Silver_Surfer

Yea I'm going with it.

Silver_Surfer

Fisher's flopping keeps him in there.

jlukja

better

Yumcha

S14 n Tsx

How about all three of them?

jlukja

^^ yeah, you get all 3 points if you make a 3-point shot.

CarbonGray Earl

"But more than likely Malone was dis-interested in the game during his Laker days because Kobe hardly passed him the ball."

Sure looks pretty objective.

Palayah8ta

next year hopefully..

i downloaded a few games from the finals to show my co workers why they lost.. they really dont understand basketball enough. im going to X-Mo the picks set on Sasha to consistantly get Ray-Ray the ball open in the 3 point land.

wipe0ut

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JediMindTricks

off topic, but eminem's verse in that song is bonkers.

Silver_Surfer

No sane superstar would want to sign as a FA to play alongside Kobe. And we all know why.

the_Osk

Since you actually responded to my post with some substance and logic, I'll reply. I won't even bother responding to those sophmoric posts that don't address my actual points and are devoid of logic. Not worth my time or effort.

Anyway,

I think the problem is that you're a realistic/logical fan. I can respect that. Your post, while I don't completely agree with it, is fair. However, most laker fans aren't like you. Furthermore, 99% of "Kobe" fans aren't.

I live in Los Angeles. I have to deal with Laker fans, Laker "fans" (a.k.a. bandwagonners), and Kobe fans. Most of the town falls into one of those catergories. Particularly the 2nd and 3rd.

Laker "fans" and especially Kobe Fans have been blaming everyone. Come on, even in this thread you've read such crap as "Kobe doesn't have anyone"... It's ridiculous. Sure, some logical people acknowledge that kobe was part of the problem. Unfortunately, most people don't. Maybe you haven't noticed this, but I definitely have, and it's damn annoying/frustrating.

As for your selective data point, I clearly wrote that this was just a quick list off the top of my head. God knows my posts are long enough, I didn't care to write more names. But, it doesn't matter, because even you admit that he hasn't really ever made his teammates better. The problem is, most Laker "fans" won't admit this, and ZERO Kobe fans will.

You state that there's still time for Kobe to change, and that he might get a few rings. You say that he shows signs of this during this particular year.

Like I said in a previous post, I thought Kobe might have finally changed this year.. but I quickly noticed that it wasn't a true change. Sure, when his team was up he was passing the ball... but the second there was adversity, he reverted back to the old Kobe.

While I acknowledge that anything is possible.. having followed kobe's career (all of my family, my girlfriend, and most friends are Laker fans), along with having a BA from UCLA in psychology, having a pretty high basketball IQ, along with critical thinking skills... I just don't have faith that kobe will change. He displays certain character flaws that lead me to believe that he won't change. Don't forget, this is his 12th season.. he's had plenty of time to change. While I doubt he ever will, I'll gladly give him props if he finally does.

If you have any other questions or counterpoints, I'll gladly respond. But if you just want to agree to disagree, that's fine too. Hopefully you at least get an idea of why I think the way I think.

Osamu

sorry to drag this on, but even though Kobe has 12 years in the league, he's still under 30 and has time to change. MJ didn't even really become the best of all time, until late in his career. I think just being the veteran on a team on players younger than him will help his leadership ability. They always mention that he never really connected with his former teammates because he was so much younger than any of the other stars he played with. I really looking forward to seeing how kobe finishes his career because I still believe there is a chance that he will be viewed on par with MJ by the end.

I have to agree with Jedi about the players you mentioned
GP - at the end of his career, and really shared the PG spot with J.Williams in Miami. I think he rarely showed signs of being 'the glove' that he was in seattle, and just shot a lot of mid range jumpers when he was with LA.
Rice - they won a championship together, and Rice was still that strong 3rd scorer.
rodman - played like half a season, or well the lockout season, and made it to the 2nd round until they ran into the twin towers.
Butler - was putting up better numbers playing w/ kobe than when he was in Miami. It was only like his 3rd year in the league and I think his numbers just kept going up since then.

I don't know, just seeing how much raw talent kobe has, it's hard not to defend him. Sure he might be a little selfish, and at times might try to do too much, but I mean he has the ability to completely take over a game at times. There were a lot of games, even this season, where if Kobe didn't score 10 or more points in the 4th quarter they probably would've lost the game. His ability to take over can really be his undoing as well, as sometimes it seems like when he is feeling it, the rest of the team just stands back to watch him, and I don't blame them, cause at times he is really amazing to watch. But then he starts seeing triple and quadruple teams, which might be hard to overcome. Boston's team defense in the finals was really his undoing. Their defense was just amazing to watch. It felt like there was at least 6 or 7 of them on the floor when they were playing their best.

I don't know if I'm really disagreeing with you osk, but sometimes it just seems like you're being overly harsh on Kobe, just cause everyone else loves him.

Doom878

Is the media predicting any changes to the Lakers' roster or are they just waiting for a healthy Bynum and sticking with that?