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.... I also agree with George that the 7DCT was a Proof of Concept on the LEGEND platform. Being a Honda designed and built tranny, a 'soft launch' into the marketplace was wise after a tranny failure reputation in the not so distant past. They have already developed higher gear DCT ( i.e. NSX) and will likely leapfrog the LEGEND's DCT as SH tech infiltrates the product line....
In another thread, I was talking about 45 mph country roads in Virginia, and that reminded me of something.
So here's a small update.
Although the dealer can reproduce and experience the issue, they're not really sure what's the problem or what to do about it, and they want me to leave the car for a few days while they check everything they can think of.
This would normally be fine, but with the Takata airbag recall, it's going to be a while before a loaner vehicle will be available.
I broke down and telephoned one of the nice people who came to interview me about the Sport Hybrid.
Talked for about 45 mins about all kinds of things.
He thinks I might be experiencing something akin to the P-AWS transmission TSB issue involving overheating the transmission fluid.
Talking about some of the things that go on during my commute made him suggest that.
What happens is that you'll run across somebody who doesn't know the road and who's driving 40 mph in a 45 mph zone where everybody else is driving 55-60.
It's a commuting era, so there's oncoming traffic and a line of cars behind you.
What happens is that you put it into Sport Mode and watch for an opening, and since opposing traffic might also be doing 55-60 and the passing zones are not very big...you floor it.
You're doing a very high rate of speed very quickly. I hate to admit to this, but it's very often approaching 90 before you know it.
And then you take it out of Sport Mode and take your foot off the throttle immediately on getting round the slow car, in order to slow down reasonably quickly to a safe driving speed.
He speculates that this is exactly the kind of scenario that will cause the transmission fluid to overheat before the extra cooling cuts in, and since I'm off throttle immediately, the combination of sensing causes the cooling never to cut in...which means that I've had repeated instances of overheating the transmission fluid, amounting to "severe" usage.
So the next step is to change the transmission fluid or even flush the transmission like the P-AWS TSB suggests.
Still not solved, still annoying, but a little progress with at least an idea for a solution.
He speculates that this is exactly the kind of scenario that will cause the transmission fluid to overheat before the extra cooling cuts in, and since I'm off throttle immediately, the combination of sensing causes the cooling never to cut in...which means that I've had repeated instances of overheating the transmission fluid, amounting to "severe" usage.
Interesting and appreciate the detail. If this proves to be the issue, it makes me think Honda may have 'under-engineered' the tranny fluid cooling. If you are permitted to switch SPORT use on and off at will, and that accelerates the tranny fluid degradation they either need to: 1) find a tranny fluid with better heat exposure characteristics or 2) design the cooling system to be deactivated when the temp drops below designated threshold and not by switching off SPORT and 3) update the MID for tranny service calculations to factor in SPORT use of this nature - if possible.
I would think this would be an impact to all Acura's with SPORT mode? If it turns out similar to the PAWS TSB then it certainly is not unique to the SH.
^^
I have always flushed the transmission fluid every 30,000 miles, on all my cars. I will be doing the same thing with the SH, so i wonder if this will happen to my car......
Since I just performed this service and may be the first in our group to do so, the tech said the color was normal. I don't know what that means. Is it that the fluid characteristics were as expected, or the use of the transmission was as expected, or something else? My shifting experience has almost always been butter smooth and very quick, with one exception if I just happen to catch it where all the EV motors were engaged in sport mode and I hit the throttle harder than expected while locked in 1st or 2nd gears, then it feels like I got rear ended with the hit of acceleration for just a moment. It is hard to explain and even harder to demonstrate, but it has happened many times, and not in an expected way.
Since I just performed this service and may be the first in our group to do so, the tech said the color was normal. I don't know what that means. Is it that the fluid characteristics were as expected, or the use of the transmission was as expected, or something else?
Color would have changed if the fluid had overheated many times......I guess you leave the car in "SPORT" mode much longer than George, and the transmission cooling works as intended :-)
Color would have changed if the fluid had overheated many times......I guess you leave the car in "SPORT" mode much longer than George, and the transmission cooling works as intended :-)
I spend 99% of my time in eco and only hit the sport mode for demonstration purposes and for anticipated jack rabbit starts from a light if I am in the wrong lane somewhere. I drove about 20 miles in sport mode and "enjoyed" myself, but then saw my mpg for that trip was in the low teens. You can only get away with that for a every short while anyway. The car has serious get-up-and-go in eco mode anyway, so that is where I stay primarily. I guess that is why the color of the fluid was "normal"?
BTW, the charts and diagrams you get to add to our conversations are fantastic! Really enjoy your contributions!
Thanks for the kind words RLX-Sport Hybrid, as i said before what a great group of guys on this forum!
Since the color was "normal", i would assume that your transmission rarely overheats, if ever......
I would be really interested to hear what they say about George's transmission fluid when they change it.....
I think that George or the service department should send that fluid out to be analyzed, so we know for sure if the transmission fluid was actually degraded.....
I too am very interested in what they have to say. I continue to have intermittent annoying noises and rough shifts coming from the tranny.
I drove 125 miles at freeway speeds today and towards the end of the trip it began to get rough. While it was warm, in the low 80s, it wasn't really super hot. I was driving at around 74 most of the time. I am suppisous of the fluid since the issue only showed up after about 2 hours of driving when I got back to LA and the traffic became stop and go.
I can't remember the last time I used Sport mode. I may do an experiment to recreate George's behavior and see if it triggers the issue. I can go for a week and not have the problem so I suppect it is triggered by some specific driving, temperature combination.
The good news is that TLX's have improved since the last time I drove one. :-)
Something that I've noticed that is a big deal to me is that with the new TLX's, the P-AWS delay is nonexistent. With the last V6 TLX that I drove, it was like the 2014 P-AWS RLX that I used to own: There was a very tiny but humanly perceivable delay between the steering input and the computer's decision of the permanent P-AWS steering angle for the maneuver.
It's not at all like that now, and the result is that the TLX steers a lot more like a RWD car now, and you feel a lot more comfortable driving it because the steering angles are chosen almost immediately.
The NAV and ELS interfaces work faster than I recall in the last TLX, too. Good to see.
Things I definitely miss: telescoping steering wheel, ventilated seats, iPod connection, radar cruise.
For some reason the seat moves instead of the steering wheel. But it doesn't start moving you back until you open the door, and I must be spry for an old man because I'm still banging my knee on the wheel because it doesn't move back fast enough. :-)
This is a FWD V6 Tech. I think if it were Advance, I'd have radar cruise and ventilated seats.
If i may ask George, what is your opinion on the TLX compared to the RLX? Is it a 4 or a 6, fwd or awd?
I was typing while you were, I guess.
I would definitely prefer my car over the TLX. The TLX is not as big as the 4G TL, and I don't think you'd want five people in the TLX.
There's more and better leather in the RLX.
Being able to set your TLX to permanent Sport Mode might be an advantage for some people, I guess.
ELS audio is fine.
The TLX has a more nimble feel to it, it's more of a normal Honda that you'd expect. With the big RLX, despite the fancy suspension, you will catch the RLX behaving in an ungainly way in switch backs. The TLX does this a little better, in the dry, even though it's FWD.
The 9 speed transmission feels very nice and normal. Feels better than the older TLX that they gave me a couple of years ago. :-)
I really like the way P-AWS works instantly now. It feels very much like RWD with the advantages of FWD. The car's attitude is very nice, although of course you cannot pretend that the ultimate traction is not limited when compared to SH-AWD.
My 2014 P-AWS has the rattle noise and it is exactly as described above regarding speed and load conditions. It has had the rattle noise for the past 30K miles. Two years ago I had it looked at closely with a tech and I riding around listening to the rattle. He described it as a torque converter lock-up noise and I went along with his diagnosis despite it seemed to be engine related. I've not had any engine damage, nonetheless, I better schlep it to the Acura dealer soon before reaching 50K miles to get the rocker arm fix as the car now has 48K miles. This may also explain the noticeable shifting issue the car had two weeks ago with the transmission hesitating making a shifting decision leading to noticeable up/down shifts at highway speeds (six speed automatic). Note: It has the rattling noise but no indicator lights have been seen.
My 2014 P-AWS has the rattle noise and it is exactly as described above regarding speed and load conditions. It has had the rattle noise for the past 30K miles. Two years ago I had it looked at closely with a tech and I riding around listening to the rattle. He described it as a torque converter lock-up noise and I went along with his diagnosis despite it seemed to be engine related. I've not had any engine damage, nonetheless, I better schlep it to the Acura dealer soon before reaching 50K miles to get the rocker arm fix as the car now has 48K miles. This may also explain the noticeable shifting issue the car had two weeks ago with the transmission hesitating making a shifting decision leading to noticeable up/down shifts at highway speeds (six speed automatic).
I would run, not walk to the dealer. Well drive, as that is faster. Sorry, bad humor.
My 2014 P-AWS has the rattle noise and it is exactly as described above regarding speed and load conditions. It has had the rattle noise for the past 30K miles. Two years ago I had it looked at closely with a tech and I riding around listening to the rattle. He described it as a torque converter lock-up noise and I went along with his diagnosis despite it seemed to be engine related. I've not had any engine damage, nonetheless, I better schlep it to the Acura dealer soon before reaching 50K miles to get the rocker arm fix as the car now has 48K miles. This may also explain the noticeable shifting issue the car had two weeks ago with the transmission hesitating making a shifting decision leading to noticeable up/down shifts at highway speeds (six speed automatic). Note: It has the rattling noise but no indicator lights have been seen.
Remember that there is no TSB. You might have to print out pgeorg's picture and take it with you, and if it's not a drivability issue I'm not sure they'll execute the alert.
I think that to some extent, Honda and Acura VCM systems are just going to rattle some, because of the design. The TLX that I'm driving as a loaner has a perceivable sort of rattle.
Thanks for the advice, George. I have printed out pgeorg's information page and have a shop appointment for Tuesday. Car has 48990 miles. The rattle has not been a problem and like you pointed out, it appears Honda's VCM is prone to some level of rattling. Will see what happens next week.
Took car to Acura dealer today. Service manager (the big guy) and I went for a ride. I could hear the rattling faintly but he could not. I'm in my 60s and he was likely in his late 50s to early 60s (a career of listening to loud engines will down grade one's hearing). At any rate, I think George Knighton's comments about Honda's VCM system having some intrinsic clatter is the case for my car. Not enough clatter to warrant tearing into the engine. The service manager said my issue would be duly noted and if the engine went south even after the warranty period, Honda would likely be honorable with the repairs.
While there had the transmission serviced. The service schedule calls for servicing every 25K miles and with 49K miles, was time to do it again.
I told the young salesman if he came across a dark gray exterior/ebony interior advance 2016 Sport Hybrid be it new or used and the deal were good enough, I'd take it sight unseen. He asked why was I interested in the Sport Hybrid and I told him: "Hey, its a poor man's NSX". When asked when the dealership would be getting 2017 RLXs, he said maybe not ever as there is a rumored redesign taking place . . . . . .
I told the young salesman if he came across a dark gray exterior/ebony interior advance 2016 Sport Hybrid be it new or used and the deal were good enough, I'd take it sight unseen. He asked why was I interested in the Sport Hybrid and I told him: "Hey, its a poor man's NSX". When asked when the dealership would be getting 2017 RLXs, he said maybe not ever as there is a rumored redesign taking place . . . . . .
2016 441 miles, as new as can be for $57,881 2016 RLX SH Advance. According to the model ID it is Gray over Black.
..., he said maybe not ever as there is a rumored redesign taking place . . . . . .
I would bet against that. Perhaps some feature updates and I anticipate PAWS models getting the LED fog / turn signal indicators of the SH (as they have done with the Korean PAWS LEGEND). But this car was launched as a 2015 Honda LEGEND and 2016 Korean LEGEND. Only in US, CA & CH has it been out as a 2014 model. A major change in body is highly unlikely IMHO. And would you not question a salesman that would not JUMP on a sales lead that walked up to him? Either he does not know or can be bothered and prefers to sell you what is best for him to sell.
^^
Tampa is right as usual, the 2017 RLX P-AWS is up on the Honda Service Manual website. I don't think they changed anything, not even the LED fog / turn signal from the SH.....
pgeorge can you check something in your manuals for the 2017 Accessories? I have yet to verify the 4 door Illuminated door sills are available in garystone / quartz (although they are in 2 door kit). I have only been able to verify black / ebony (as installed on my SH) or seacoast / orchid are available in the 4 door kit.
I have the original graystone sills from the car, and I am about to try swapping out the illuminated aluminum inserts from the installed black sills to the original graystone. Dunno why there is such a quandary of this accessory?
08-22-2016, 04:44 PM
