BEAR-AvHistory

Personally have no interest in driving anything 300K miles. That said the 6MT in my 2006TL was replaced at 22K miles under a TSB. That with other recalls & TSB's not counting a full tail light replacement when it was two weeks old made the TL the most unreliable car or truck I ever owned.

Statements made can be validated by contemporaneous posts in the 3G section starting in 2006.

pyrodan007

The biggest issue with Acura is the recent "not-me" behavior. Even if my 15 TLX was "reliable", it's transmission made it garbage on wheels and no way would anyone deal with it for 300k if not replaced by Acura. My 17 A4 is also a first year model and it's been fairly stable. Audi has no problems to at least look and try to fix things (loose upper air chamber in driver seat so far, replaced after trying to fix it, that's it).

AcuraGuy2016

Picked up a new 2020 TLX V6 Tech today. Very happy with it, especially for the price paid. With current deals and incentives, they are selling for a little less than what I paid for my previous V6 Accord Touring.

No it's not an Audi, Lexus, BMW, or Benz. It's not flashy or super modern, but it's much more refined, quiet, and nicer all-around than my Accord. It handles better and accelerates and passes at least as fast. No ZF issues. This is smoother than my Accord, which would be a little jerky and delay when flooring to pass, although nothing too bad.

Overall it might not be as flashy or sporty as Audi or the new TLX but it is a good vehicle for me for the next few years while Acura and others sort through growing pains with the new turbos.

Tesla1856

Congratulations !

I've posted it before here ...

Back in May-2020, if dealer could have produced this same car ... 2020 TLX V6 Tech in white, I likely would have bought it myself. The one I drove showed me the 2020-TLX was nice enough to buy.

Thanks for the "real world" comparison to Accord. I too though it was better than mine, but mine is old.

leomio85

So, not the most scientific way, but decided to just go out and do some more timed 0-60 runs with my own stop watch. Same road, similar atmospheric conditions, Sport+, 93 Oct, blah blah blah.

~6.5s 0-60 from the RDX, all three runs were within about a few hundredths of a second of each other (6.48s fastest, 6.54s slowest). Yes, I was hoping it would be faster too, but it seems C&D (6.6s) and MotorTrend (6.4s) is basically spot on.

Boooo! Should have went with the A-Spec. The 1G TLX, especially in A-Spec form, is a great looking car. The interior leaves a lot to be desired though, at least from my experience with a 2020 loaner. Glad you enjoy the car though, and even better that you were able to get it for a steal. Right now is likely the best time to get one as the 2G's are starting to hit lots. Compared to what you would be paying to get a 2G, I think you made the right choice ... I wouldn't be able to justify paying that kind of premium for what the 2G offers compared to a 1G with incentives.

There's no chance I'll be getting a Type S (or another Acura) without a deep discount. Which likely means I'll never be getting a Type S. I'll still say that dealers are going to be greedy and lament the Type S badge and refuse to let these go for under sticker (see: Honda dealers with the CTR). Then Acura will pull back production when they sell less units than the Nissan Z, despite it being a completely impractical car, and the TLX-S will be dead in no time. I can see an RDX-S in the 4G iteration with the buying trends, but that will depend largely on how well the MDX-S does ... which if I'm right and it's starting price is a over $60k, it won't do well either. Acura seems to think that if they keep telling people it's a performance brand, they'll simply start to believe it. Marketing over substance.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Just a note, most reviewers do a 1-ft roll out for their acceleration tests. Basically the clock does not start until the car moves 1 foot from the launch. It improves the time by as much as 0.3s.

Here's more information:
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...hange-rollout/

Not sure if your app includes that 1-ft roll out and not sure how accurate it is at detecting that. But that 6,5s that you timed could potentially be 6.2.

Also, most Honda's and Acura's don't have launch control, or even allow for brake torquing (i.e. if you try brake torquing, the car will bog down and end up slower). This unfortunately puts it at a huge disadvantage in 0-60 mph and 1/4 mile runs.

The better measure of acceleration is the 1/4 mile trap speed. It pretty much eliminates the launch issue.

It's also important to note that most publications do apply correction figures to their acceleration figures to account for elevation, humidity, and temperature.

Last but not least, I think most phone apps use the phone's gps to collect data. But for most phones, the GPS receiver does not collect enough data fast enough. So when I was using my phone to record my lap times on track days, the data is all over the map (literally, as the line that is drawn by the app using the phone gps would have me off the track every corner with abnormal trap speeds. I bought a bluebooth 10hz GPS receiver and that has improved accuracy significantly with way more meaningful data. That's probably why using your stop watch was a bit more accurate to some extent. But one thing to note is that usually, the speedometer lags behind the actual speed (i.e. the car can be going at 60mph but the speedometer is still showing 55mph as it tries to catch up with the acceleration). The counter point is that most speedometers read high (i.e. if you are cruising at 60mph, the speedometer may be showing 62mph or something).

leomio85

No no no ... those latest times were done manually using the stopwatch on my iPhone and just doing it by feel. Hard on the brakes, gas to the floor, lift off the brake and hit the 'Go' button on the timer. Once it hit 60, hit the stop button. Again, not the most scientific of ways, but I was shocked how close the times all were. You can absolutely feel that the power is neutered on launch. It's not surprising why other vehicles in its class have substantially quicker 0-60 times. I'd wager the TLX will be the same. But, it'll be enough for people who look at cars as nothing more than another appliance.

Tesla1856

What's how I would do it.
Actually, I would use an actual stop-watch ($10 on Amazon ).

It's like compasses. Sure, my iPhone has one ... but for calibrating my drones ... I use a real $15 compass (with proper declination set) .

BEAR-AvHistory

If you want to compare against the magazines get a "Dragy". Does 0-60 in both actual & 1 foot roll out. My Z4 matches up to with 1/10th of the magazine times, along with all the other acceleration measurements.

lowgrowl

I have 320k miles on my 06 TL. I've had no electrical problems. Unless you consider some lights on the dash going out and the navi failing recently poor reliability. And 2006 isn't
outrageously old

lowgrowl

Wow !!!. The only things I had to replace on my TL were parts that just got old which is normal for any car. My car now has 320k miles on it. It sounds like either you got a lemon or didn't care about maintenance. The 04 -08 TL has a good reliability record.

lowgrowl

Since weight has been mentioned to be a key factor.

2020 BMW 330i X drive weighs 3764 lbs with a stated 0-60 time of 5.2 seconds
2021 Acura TLX AWD aspec weighs 3927 lbs and still waiting for results.

Will that 163 lb weight difference really decrease it's performance to a noticeable degree ? I don't know, you guys tell me. I'm all ears

lowgrowl

Mistake made, 3990 lbs for the Acura. 226 lb difference.

bilirubin

C&D got 3709 lbs for the 330i xDrive, so it's a 218 lbs difference. That's very significant.
Further, the 330i has more peak torque and BMW already notoriously under-rates their HP & Tq figures. Further, BMW's xDrive set-up has historically shown to handle more power than Acura's non-hybrid SH-AWD systems.
Case in point, the RDX takes 6.6s for 0-60mph, slower than an Odyssey. Again the TLX weighs about the same as the RDX with similar engine, transmission, and AWD set-up. And again, we should wait for the reviews to be sure.

I feel like this discussion is going in circles. I really hope I'm wrong, I really hope Acura's learned from the RDX fiasco and the TLX can prove Acura's that serious about being performance-oriented.

bilirubin

then it's actually a 281 lbs difference, it just went from bad to worse.

AcuraGuy2016

I really don't like the 3G RDX. Sure it is more modern and FEELS sportier than the 2G, but it is actually SLOWER 0-60 and 5-60 than the 2G RDX with the V6. I think the fuel economy is also worse, and the road noise was terrible, worse than the 2G RDX. I'd expect that in a Honda not Acura. We actually bought an MDX a few years earlier than we needed a new family vehicle since we hated the new RDX so much and wanted something long term we actually liked that didnt break the bank.

AcuraGuy2016

Boo? Haha! Sure, A-Specs are nice but dealer stock was extremely limited in the V6 which is what I wanted. The only ones they had were black exterior and red interior. I will never get a black car, since it makes the vehicle so hot and the paint tends to fail faster than any other color. I also couldn't stand the red interior. If they had A-Spec that came with normal black leather (not alcantara), and they were actually in stock with V6, I would have been all over that. Since I dealt with relatively uncomfortable seats on my last vehicle, no way was I going to sacrifice on seats.

Other than looks the only feature I really liked over the Tech was the cooled seats. I'm adding remote start, so that would take care of that 80%.

BEAR-AvHistory

Agree black cars really suck especially in the Carolinas.



Your mileage may vary!

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

just to throw more C/D numbers for reference.

5-60 mph
Q5 2.0T: 6.5s
GLC300: 6.7s
RDX 2.0T: 7.0s
X3 2.0T: 7.5s

A4: 6.0s
C300: 6.4s
330i: 6.4s

1/4 mile trap speed
Q5 2.0T: 95mph
GLC300: 96mph
RDX 2.0T: 93mph
X3 2.0T: 94mph

A4: 100mph
C300: 99mph
330i: 100mph

AcuraGuy2016

Wow: 1G TLX V6 1/4 mile 103mph

mojo_79

I guess you haven’t heard that BMW underrates all of their engines. Add about 10% to whatever BMW states and that will be a more accurate representation of their engine’s power. This has been shown over and over again.

Tesla1856

2020 Audi Q5-e 55-TFSI quattro PHEV is 4685 lbs and 0-60 is 5.0 seconds .
So, no ... weight doesn't matter .

Speed Guy

Of course, you know that comparing an electric battery and the torque it provides instantaneously is not an accurate comparison.

Tesla1856

No. I did not. However, the small-flat electric motor (attached to side of quattro transmission) is only 100hp. The ICE does the rest.

I was surprised of the curb-weight though.

With a passenger, you are at 5,000 lbs.

fiatlux

That electric motor also provides 258 ft-lb of torque instantly. That's why it accelerates so quick. As they say, horsepower sells cars, but torque wins races. My Volvo also weighs about 4500lb, but it does 0-60 in 4.4s. Why? Because of the electric motor that makes a "scant" 87hp. Strip away the electric motor (but also remove 500lb worth of batteries) and the gas model with the same ICE motor does 0-60 a full second slower. Hence, it's not exactly fair to compare acceleration numbers when a car has the benefit of the instant torque an electric motor. And it certainly isn't proof that weight doesn't matter.

Best way to prove how much weight matters; look at two cars with the same powertrain and drivetrain but different weights. The Germans make this exercise so easy because they share so much across their lineup.
BMW 330i: 248hp, 258 lb-ft, ZF8, 3569lb, 0-60 in 5.4
BMW 530i: 248hp, 258 lb-ft, ZF8, 3886lb, 0-60 in 6.1

Audi S4: 349hp, 369 lb-ft, ZF8, 3927lb, 0-60 in 4.2
Audi SQ5: 354hp, 369 lb-ft, ZF8, 4429lb, 0-60 in 5.1

So as you can see, everything else equal, weight does matter quite a bit. The Accord 2.0T and TLX share the same powertrain and same drivetrain as well. Sure on paper the TLX makes more power, but we all know in the real world the Accord has been underrated and it likely makes more than the advertised 252hp. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to realize that a 400lb weight difference is going to make things very difficult for the TLX.

lowgrowl

Your absolutely right, this discussion is all speculative.We'll just have to wait to see the test results The new TLX's goal was not to kick ass on the German cars. Even though the TLX maybe won't score the lowest 0-60 or 1/4 mile times, who cares. I rather give up some performance to have the other attributes it possesses.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

Do you have any recent photos of your 3rd gen TL? Exterior / interior photos?

Tom2

Most people don't understand statistics. What exactly do you think is the failure rate for German cars? I know that's an impossible question to answer definitively since I didn't specify any particular German car, but that's besides the point. The fact of the matter is that most German cars (just like American, Japanese, Korean, etc...) have a low failure rate, even as they age and accumulate miles. Don't get caught up in the belief that a German car will cost a lot of money to maintain and/or repair when it gets older. Can it? Sure, but so can any vehicle. Most German cars are reliable. Most cars in general are reliable. Statistically speaking, you might have a small edge with a Japanese vehicle over a German vehicle, but there will be plenty of situations where the German vehicle is more reliable then the Japanese vehicle. It's the luck of the draw. I had an Audi that I kept for nearly 10 years and I put over 140,000 trouble-free miles on it. I sold it and purchased another Audi that has also been perfect so far. Go figure....I guess I'm just lucky. I also had a Toyota 4Runner that had several problems, some more severe than others. The front brake calipers had pistons that would seize every two years like clockwork. The water pump and the alternator both died before 100,000 miles. The frame was rotting to pieces, despite the fact that I powerwashed it after each winter. On the other hand, my Jeep Grand Cherokee so far has been flawless. Go figure, I guess I'm just lucky this time.

Anyway, the point is that you should buy what you like and not spend too much time worrying about perceived reliability. Most modern vehicles will be largely reliable and it really doesn't matter which vehicle you choose. Luck definitely plays a part.

pyrodan007

Well said! I would also add proper maintenance is key, on every car. If you think it costs too much for Germans and decide to skip some steps, then it will most certainly cost a lot more to fix it.

Kense

With German cars people seem to be upset that routine maintenance costs more than a Japanese car. Other repairs tend to be about the same. Yes you'll pay more for an Oil Change with an Audi S4 than a Camry. Also failures in German cars tend to be electronic, I.e. Sunroof won't open etc. that tends to mess with reliability ratings in magazines. I'd rather my rear view mirror not open up than my engine going into limp mode, i.e. my Red Sport Infiniti on the freeway

leomio85

Your rearview mirrow opens?!

Seriously tho, the 3G RDX has had incidents with going into limp mode with no warning or abuse. They're brought to the dealer and are told there's "no code stored" ... absolute horseshit. Probably a silent recall for a known issue by Acura. There's also a TSB on bad fuel pumps, and I've personally had a CEL pop for something related to fueling (can't remember the exact code anymore). Oh joy.

And agreed with the average consumer being beyond clueless. This is why people are complaining that there isn't enough trendy and up-to-date tech in their new cars, and in the same breath complain about how expensive cars are getting. Go over to anything related to the Proto Z and see the cunty bitchfest that is morons screaming about how if the car isn't in the low-30K range, it's a disgrace to Z cars everywhere, meanwhile demanding that the infotainment to be perfect, higher interior quality materials, more power, better handling, etc etc. Now I remember why I walked away from the car scene.

But, more to the point, I distinctly remember a guy coming in with a few years old BMW and asking for a price quote on his 5-series. Looked up the oil capacity quick just to be sure, and quoted him a price and he flipped out. He said he never paid more than $20 for an oil change in his life. I told him he was full of shit, and even if he got it done at some quicklube place that didn't even change his filter, his engine still took 7.5qts, which was more than the standard quickie lube $20 oil change of the day. Further, I explained to him that his car took synthetic oil, which was about double the price of conventional. After going back and forth, told him to kindly piss off and got back to other customers. Motherlover stayed in the parking lot and looked thru his owner's manual and shoved it in my face that it only stated BMW approved 5W-30 oil or something of the sort ... told him to call up the dealer and see what kind of oil they "approve" and get a quote that was double even what I was offering.

And don't think just because someone drives a BMW (or any luxury car), they're not degenerate trashy scumbags either. Honestly, the percentage I've dealt with is likely higher than your average "mainstream" vehicle. Maybe it's the sense of entitlement or privilege that comes with driving around in an overpriced badge on wheels. I've forgotten a plethora of stories, but another one I starkly remember was someone coming in for a brake job on an E-class. He asked me how much for all four corners - rotors, pads and sensors. Again, forget the exact pricing, but gave it to him and he became irate that I was charging more than the dealer. What? He said the dealer was going to charge him X amount. Told him there was no way and he left with an expletive laden tirade. It pissed me off so much, I called the Mercedes parts guy back and asked him if he knew of what they normally charged and the scenario I had just gone thru, with this shitbrick saying dealers were doing full brake jobs for cheap. He laughed and said they normally run about twice my quote for your "standard" brake job. Obviously, more exotic brake materials would be more expensive than that, along with the added "tax" of simply fucking you in the ass because you drive a more expensive vehicle, so they'll squeeze more money out of you, just because.

Last one to bore y'all with, guy came in with a newish Lexus LS driven by his wife, brakes screeching like a bat being peeled alive in a Chinese wet market. He walked up and I told him, "let me guess, you need brakes?" He gave me a perplexed look and asked me why I would think he needed brakes. He wanted an inspection done, so I peered outside and actually saw the damn thing, and the mirror like finish of the rotors nearly blinded me. I went and peered into the wheels and the pads were damn near down to the backings. I have yet to this day never seen rotors with such glazing and undulating grooves. I've seen rotors taken down to their vented veins, but nothing quite like this. I don't know how she even achieved it. Told him I wasn't gonna start the inspection unless he got new brakes, either by myself or whoever, I couldn't care less ... I was just sick and tired of shitdicks who would scream about failing inspection and still needing to pay, even after explaining I wouldn't charge them the $10 re-inspection fee if they passed, almost always because these cocksuckers would disconnect their battery to turn the CEL off, but failed to know that an emissions test will also run your I/M monitors, and if they're not set, you still fail inspection. But I digress. He left in a huff and came back a few hours later, brakes sounding even worse. He storms into the shop, chest pumped up and tells me he did the brakes. Looked at the rotors and told him that he didn't. He exclaimed he did. Looked into the wheel and he did a pad slap. Told him he needed to do the rotors too and asked him how the heck he considered it a job well done when you could hear the brakes squealing from a half mile away. Best part is, he actually did the rotors and brought the car back again to get the inspection done and it passed. His wife was very sweet ... she was probably just happy her steering wheel no longer juddered her dentures out of her head every time she hit the brakes. I also have no clue why he kept coming back ... probably pissed off literally every other shop in the area and everyone else refused to provide him any service.

Yea, everyone hates mechanics, but I assure you, they hate customers right back. Love hate relationship. Can't live with em, can't live without em.

Back on topic, yes, all cars f*cking suck. They're meant to make profits, not to make you feel warm and cozy that Honda or Brand X likes you and built a car to last you forever. And if "word of mouth" recommendations were of merit, BMW, Audi and Mercedes would have gone out of business at the turn of the millennium. Instead, sales have never been stronger for them, with M-B and BMW surpassing even Lexus in total sales for the past few years. Acura? Yea, it's not even a blip on their radar. I'd be shocked if any exec at BMW, MB or Audi even knew there was a new TLX coming out. Maybe it's simply the conservative nature of Japan's culture that will never make them a real contender to the Germans, especially now in the golden age of horsepower.

EDIT - holy shit, apologies for the wall of text. Went on bit of a rant there ...

leomio85

I wholeheartedly agree, but there's one giant asterisk to that. There's no amount of maintenance that will fix the cheap, brittle plastics the Germans love to use for just about everything in their engine bays. With heating cycles, these things literally crack at the slightest of touches. I don't care how careful you are, or how knowledgeable you are. After a certain age, they're simply going to be replaced rather than repaired on your R/R. This is also why people will go bonkers over dealer estimates ... but they know, 6-8yr+ old BMW coming in for a coolant leak, plastic cooling line, which will break X plastic cooling line and will require that the radiator be replaced because that cooling line is integrated into the rad side tank. So, what is a small coolant leak becomes a $2,300 repair bill, with, after you tell them you can't afford it and you'll just deal with it until it gets real bad, will magically become $1,800 because you're such a good customer and they "talked to the service manager for you". This almost identical scenario (minus the actual parts needing repaired, exact pricing quote tho) happened to my brother less than a year ago.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

I own a 2018 X3 Xdrive30i and a 2019 X3 M40i. This is my 1st time owning a BMW and two of them at once. I sold my 2006 ML350 Mercedes owned for 7 years and was my work horse. It racked over 140K and had typical common failures they were know for and typical wear and tear. I only used Mercedes OEM parts for the repairs, which is the main reason the repairs were higher. I sold the Mercedes for more than it was worth because I kept it in great condition. I bought the 2018 X3 as the replacement which has the 2.0T (B48) engine. It's way better on gas, handles like a sporty sedan and with the reflash tune, it certainly feels like like a different engine all together. I nail 38 MPG on the highway and about 28 local using eco pro mode. I've had two common issues which were addressed under warranty and all my services thus far have been for free. I'm almost at 30,000 and at it's next service they will do a brake flush, air and cabin and an oil change at no cost to me. As for my 2019 X3 M40i, it has nearly 27,000 and hasn't given me any issues. All the services are also done free of charge.

When I bought it last December, under CPO, they replaced tires, brakes and rotors, wiper blades, oil change and filters. The vehicle was like brand new. It's gone in for 3 oil changes (I do them every 5-6K, dealership is willing to do them early). Being a member on a few X3 platforms, they are reliable with minor common issues like the active grill shutters glitching (happened on my 2018) , the ambient lighting might show "heat marks" (my 2018 had one do this) or other minor things. Mostly the 2018 had these issues, 2019 is better. In 2020 they changed things so they have minor issues here and there but always resolved under warranty. The thing I learned with BMW, once they replace the defective part, the likely hood of happening again is slim. The engines are solid as are the transmissions. If they weren't reliable, toyota wouldn't put their name on the supra. My 2004 TL which i've owned since Dec 2006, has cost me the most in repairs. Including the $1,087.67 headliner that I replaced, the $1,398 dashboard replacement, the $570 blue tooth unit, the over $3,000 in brake hoses, lower control arms, ball joints, upper control arms, rear upper arms ect, New flywheel, clutch and throw out bearing, new engine mounts, new power steering pump, new leather seats, interior lights replacement, all speakers replaced ect. ect. The list goes on and on. Mind you, all OEM parts with or without labor. Oh and I forgot the wrist pin failure at 51,000 miles and I had to pay a 50/50 good will split from Acura for a new short block, heads to be inspected and had paid extra for the timing belt to be replaced as well.

lowgrowl

I don't agree that German cars are as reliable as Japanese. This is based on speaking to numerous people who own them and checking long term reliability with consumer reports ( which contrary to what some people say is proven to not be BS). The cost of parts is higher and the labor hours required for repairs longer than Japanese cars. A mechanic who specializes in BMW's said that it takes longer to access parts to perform repairs.Then add the parts cost and it starts getting $$$$$$ . I know people who buy the big three Germans and wouldn't dare keep them past the warranty. They know they're asking for trouble. Yes luck plays apart like anything in life. But I prefer to keep the odds in my favor.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

like tom said; you dont understand statistics

through all this back and forth I still would be the better rocket scientist.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

Still waiting on your photos of the TL

pyrodan007

Straight from CR as I already pointed out, reliability is one thing, cost is another.

fiatlux

Even if German cars aren't as "reliable" (depending on what you even mean by reliability), it doesn't mean they're unreliable. Take for instance airplanes. The Boeing 777 has a crash rate that's 3x that of the 747-400. Do you go out of your way to avoid the 777? No, because in the grand scheme of things the failure rate for both are so infinitesimally small that for all intents and purposes they are identical.

BEAR-AvHistory

For me its actual experience rather than what is said on the net or what my cousins friends brother says. Disclaimer, I do not keep my DD very long term as a matter of I like new cars so out side of my 28 year old StingRay sold with a 9 year dead odometer at 270,000 miles on the clock & my current 21 year old Ranger I am generally out by 125,000 miles.

My longest term BMW was 10 years 125,000 miles. Next is my 135is that I still have at 8 years 87,000 miles.




So far I have less money & less service events in 6 BMW's than 1 TL. As long as they are top performers & don't fall apart I will keep buying them. That said bailed out on the new M4 because of the FUGLY grill & went with the Z4 M40 my first 2 seat BMW.

Mentioned before I am an active poster here, on the BMW site, the COBRA sites & the Corvette site. Any claims made about service issues on my part are therefore available.

leomio85

^^^

I looked at it multiple times yesterday, and then woke up again today to see if my mind changed. I'll see if its any better in person, but I just can't see how BMW thought this new grille design was suitable for any car. Maybe it'll grow on me more. I think the rest of the car looks incredible. Literally everything ... but the grilles ruin the car. I've even blocked the girlles with my finger and I would 100% drop the thought of any other car for the G80 M3 ... but those grilles. Ugh, come on, BMW, you're better than this.



(leaked photos of the 2021 M3)