View Poll Results: Would you abort a pregnancy?
Pro-choice
118
60.51%
Pro-life
33
16.92%
Depends
44
22.56%
Voters: 195. You may not vote on this poll
Abortion?
10-19-2006, 04:16 PM
#401
Go Giants
I think everyone is pro-life after a certain point.
10-19-2006, 04:22 PM
#403
Originally Posted by SwervinCL
Your right, niether can you! You cannot say that abortions should be illegal. Its not your right to choose for other people. You know dont their situations.
I know for a fact that they always regret it. But then soon after realize that it was better off.
And were not in or even talking about Ethiopian children, so that point is moot.
I know for a fact that they always regret it. But then soon after realize that it was better off.
And were not in or even talking about Ethiopian children, so that point is moot.
Right of a child to live > right of parent to choose to kill it.
You're saying i cant speak for the rights of the parents. I'm saying you cant speak for the right of the child.
10-19-2006, 04:22 PM
#404
Senior Moderator
Why does arguing abortion is not the best course of action need to mean that one is pro-life (vs pro-choice)? I dont agree with the garbage that comes out of alot of peoples mouths, but I support their right to say it. The same logic can hold here.
10-19-2006, 04:23 PM
#405
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by SwervinCL
After the first trimester.Like I said earlier, the hardore pro-choicers will never support making any abortions illegal (even third trimester) because of the slippery slope fears.
10-19-2006, 04:32 PM
#406
Nom Nom Nom Nom
Originally Posted by leedogg
Right of a child to live > right of parent to choose to kill it.
You're saying i cant speak for the rights of the parents. I'm saying you cant speak for the right of the child.
You're saying i cant speak for the rights of the parents. I'm saying you cant speak for the right of the child.
You contradicted yourself. You said earlier that you think that abortion is wrong, but yet you just said that you are speaking for the rights of the parents. Its the parents "right/choice" to abort the child if they want. Not yours.
As for the childs rights, how would the child have rights if it is just an embryo? Its not living and breathing on its own. And how can the child have rights and the parents dont?
Last edited by SwervinCL; 10-19-2006 at 04:35 PM.
10-19-2006, 04:45 PM
#407
is learning to moonwalk i
:merry-go-round:
Each person is going to have their own view on this subject. I have read most of the posts and most of them present some very logical and thought provoking points. I try not to discount any of them (though some are hard to take seriously) and form my own opinion based on what I know and learn. My guess is that every reasonable person would do the same. However, each of us will interpret the same information slightly differently based on our personal history. Who is right and who is wrong? No one can answer for everyone else. Each person finds what is right or wrong for themselves, but has no right to force that view on others.
This world has probably lost out on some potentially great people due to abortion. On the other hand, the world definitely would have been much better off had some mothers chosen not to take their pregnancies to full term.
The irony is that many "pro-lifers" are the same people who support the death penalty. After all, an eye for an eye.
Each person is going to have their own view on this subject. I have read most of the posts and most of them present some very logical and thought provoking points. I try not to discount any of them (though some are hard to take seriously) and form my own opinion based on what I know and learn. My guess is that every reasonable person would do the same. However, each of us will interpret the same information slightly differently based on our personal history. Who is right and who is wrong? No one can answer for everyone else. Each person finds what is right or wrong for themselves, but has no right to force that view on others.
This world has probably lost out on some potentially great people due to abortion. On the other hand, the world definitely would have been much better off had some mothers chosen not to take their pregnancies to full term.
The irony is that many "pro-lifers" are the same people who support the death penalty. After all, an eye for an eye.
10-19-2006, 04:46 PM
#408
Nom Nom Nom Nom
Originally Posted by leedogg
Right of a child to live > right of parent to choose to kill it.
You're saying i cant speak for the rights of the parents. I'm saying you cant speak for the right of the child.
You're saying i cant speak for the rights of the parents. I'm saying you cant speak for the right of the child.
10-19-2006, 04:48 PM
#409
Originally Posted by SwervinCL
I never said that I would choose life>death vice versa. I said that I would rather have adoption>abortion, but sometimes thats just not an option.
You contradicted yourself. You said earlier that you think that abortion is wrong, but yet you just said that you are speaking for the rights of the parents. Its the parents "right/choice" to abort the child if they want. Not yours.
As for the childs rights, how would the child have rights if it is just an embryo? Its not living and breathing on its own. And how can the child have rights and the parents dont?
You contradicted yourself. You said earlier that you think that abortion is wrong, but yet you just said that you are speaking for the rights of the parents. Its the parents "right/choice" to abort the child if they want. Not yours.
As for the childs rights, how would the child have rights if it is just an embryo? Its not living and breathing on its own. And how can the child have rights and the parents dont?
Originally Posted by leedogg
It is a new life upon conception. It will become a human. It will be sentient. Just because at some stage it is more or less developed doesnt mean a thing. You are arbitrarily deciding at what point it is technically a child. I'm saying who the hell cares at what point it 'becomes a child', it will become a child and that is all that matters.
10-19-2006, 04:50 PM
#410
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by SwervinCL
If you eat eggs for breakfast, thats not fair to the chicken that could come out of that egg, is it?
Dont compare apples to chickens
10-19-2006, 04:51 PM
#411
is learning to moonwalk i
Originally Posted by leedogg
The parent has just as much right to kill the kid at 1 weeks pregnancy as they do after the kid is born because as far as i'm concerned the stage of the child is irrelevant only its potential.
10-19-2006, 04:53 PM
#412
Nom Nom Nom Nom
Originally Posted by leedogg
I did not say i'm speaking for the rights of the parents. It is the right of the child to live, not the parents decision, not mine. The right of the parent does not exceed the rights of the child to live.
The parent has just as much right to kill the kid at 1 weeks pregnancy as they do after the kid is born because as far as i'm concerned the stage of the child is irrelevant only its potential.
The parent has just as much right to kill the kid at 1 weeks pregnancy as they do after the kid is born because as far as i'm concerned the stage of the child is irrelevant only its potential.
But I do see your point.
10-19-2006, 04:53 PM
#413
Originally Posted by SwervinCL
If you eat eggs for breakfast, thats not fair to the chicken that could come out of that egg, is it?
no its not. good thing chickens dont have our rights.
10-19-2006, 04:53 PM
#414
Community Architect
robb m.
robb m.
Originally Posted by leedogg
The right of the parent does not exceed the rights of the child to live.
Originally Posted by leedogg
The parent has just as much right to kill the kid at 1 weeks pregnancy as they do after the kid is born because as far as i'm concerned the stage of the child is irrelevant only its potential.
10-19-2006, 04:56 PM
#415
Originally Posted by moeronn
Every sperm cell and egg has potential. Combining two does not immediately make a person.
10-19-2006, 04:57 PM
#416
Nom Nom Nom Nom
Originally Posted by Astroboy
but it's not a child yet, how can you not grasp this?
The child is not even a child, its not living, breathing, eating, anything......
So, how do you feel about these babies that are found in dumpsters? Dont you think abortion would have been a better alternative?
Last edited by SwervinCL; 10-19-2006 at 05:00 PM.
10-19-2006, 05:02 PM
#417
The Creator
Originally Posted by SwervinCL
The child is not even a child, its not living, breathing, eating, anything......
It's also a child. Like it or not.
Nonetheless, yeah... it can't decide for itself unfortunately.
10-19-2006, 05:03 PM
#418
Originally Posted by Astroboy
but it's not a child yet, how can you not grasp this?
Who are you to determine the point in time when its ok to terminate the natural growth of this life form, preventing it from reaching its full potential?
10-19-2006, 05:04 PM
#419
The Creator
Just to add some context to this argument...
Here's the child in the FIRST trimester:
That's just 13 weeks in.
It's got a brain, a spinal cord, hands, feet, eyes, a heart... even a penis. It's a baby... one way or the other. But it still can't live without it's mother, so it's future is in its mothers hands.
It's even sucking it's thumb...
Here's the child in the FIRST trimester:
That's just 13 weeks in.
It's got a brain, a spinal cord, hands, feet, eyes, a heart... even a penis. It's a baby... one way or the other. But it still can't live without it's mother, so it's future is in its mothers hands.
It's even sucking it's thumb...
10-19-2006, 05:08 PM
#422
Nom Nom Nom Nom
Originally Posted by soopa
Second Trimester, 22 weeks... only about halfway there:
Halfway there, but already a PERSON.
Halfway there, but already a PERSON.
10-19-2006, 05:09 PM
#424
The Creator
Originally Posted by SwervinCL
Thats why I think anything past early first trimester should not be legal.
IOW, you have the right to choose... but make up your fucking mind.
10-19-2006, 05:14 PM
#425
is learning to moonwalk i
Originally Posted by SwervinCL
Thats why I think anything past early first trimester should not be legal.
10-19-2006, 05:15 PM
#426
Nom Nom Nom Nom
Originally Posted by moeronn
You cannot criminalize it. That would prevent any doctor from performing the procedure on a woman who would most likely die in labor. Sure, make it more difficult - i.e. set more guidelines and requirements - but do not criminalize it.
10-19-2006, 05:35 PM
#429
The Creator
Originally Posted by moeronn
You cannot criminalize it. That would prevent any doctor from performing the procedure on a woman who would most likely die in labor. Sure, make it more difficult - i.e. set more guidelines and requirements - but do not criminalize it.
As for criminalization, I don't know that it's necessarily the way to go either. All I know is that 2nd/3rd term abortions should not be allowed. Beyond that, lawyers can figure out the details.
10-19-2006, 05:38 PM
#430
is learning to moonwalk i
Originally Posted by soopa
There should certainly be exceptions to the rule.
As for criminalization, I don't know that it's necessarily the way to go either. All I know is that 2nd/3rd term abortions should not be allowed. Beyond that, lawyers can figure out the details.
As for criminalization, I don't know that it's necessarily the way to go either. All I know is that 2nd/3rd term abortions should not be allowed. Beyond that, lawyers can figure out the details.
in principle. However, as they say "the devil's in the details."
10-19-2006, 06:00 PM
#432
Suzuka Master
Thread Starter
So hm, am I killing a potential child every time I rub one out? According to some of you that fertilized egg is where life begins, and will eventually become a child. Isn't all of my sperm potential children? ftw
10-19-2006, 06:04 PM
#433
My Garage
Originally Posted by CUNextTuesday
So hm, am I killing a potential child every time I rub one out? According to some of you that fertilized egg is where life begins, and will eventually become a child. Isn't all of my sperm potential children? ftw
10-19-2006, 06:07 PM
#435
The Creator
Originally Posted by CUNextTuesday
^^
The point is that, to me, there is not much of a difference. It's still just a sperm and an egg...
The point is that, to me, there is not much of a difference. It's still just a sperm and an egg...
Sperm or Egg alone will not.
That's a pretty key difference.
10-19-2006, 06:10 PM
#436
Suzuka Master
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by soopa
Sperm + Egg will become child without abortion.
Sperm or Egg alone will not.
That's a pretty key difference.
Sperm or Egg alone will not.
That's a pretty key difference.
10-19-2006, 06:16 PM
#437
Heres a thread I started with a similar poll here a little while back. I am pro-life. In fact I guess I could be considered "a single issue voter" because I vote solely on this one thing. Its clearly murder in my opinion.
https://acurazine.com/forums/religion-politics-18/pro-life-pro-choice-simple-thread-336410/
https://acurazine.com/forums/religion-politics-18/pro-life-pro-choice-simple-thread-336410/
10-19-2006, 06:21 PM
#438
The Creator
Originally Posted by CUNextTuesday
It will become a child, but that's not what it is.
Skew it however you want, I already added context to this debate. It's definately a child pretty quickly into the first trimester. It's a viable child halfway through pregnancy.
Not many people here are against early first trimester abortion. There needs to be a right to choose, but you need to choose. Hopefully you'll choose responsibly.
If you want to get technical, I'd consider it a child after gastrulation. This happens within the first week of pregnancy.
By the time you realize you're pregnant, a heart, a brain, and a circulatory system have already developed. It's a living being. It's YOUR CHILD.
In the first trimester it looks/acts like a baby. It's a child.
You can be pro-abortion all you want, I'm completely OK with that. Being ignorant is simply unforgivable.
10-19-2006, 06:22 PM
#439
Nom Nom Nom Nom
Originally Posted by Rodney
Heres a thread I started with a similar poll here a little while back. I am pro-life. In fact I guess I could be considered "a single issue voter" because I vote solely on this one thing. Its clearly murder in my opinion.
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=336410
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=336410
Murder, no............
10-19-2006, 06:29 PM
#440
Suzuka Master
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by soopa
Skew it however you want, I already added context to this debate. It's definately a child pretty quickly into the first trimester. It's a viable child halfway through pregnancy.
Not many people here are against early first trimester abortion. There needs to be a right to choose, but you need to choose. Hopefully you'll choose responsibly.
If you want to get technical, I'd consider it a child after gastrulation. This happens within the first week of pregnancy.
By the time you realize you're pregnant, a heart, a brain, and a circulatory system have already developed. It's a living being. It's YOUR CHILD.
In the first trimester it looks/acts like a baby. It's a child.
You can be pro-abortion all you want, I'm completely OK with that. Being ignorant is simply unforgivable.