This is why I'm not a fan of police chases
06-01-2007, 10:08 AM
#1
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This is why I'm not a fan of police chases
Originally Posted by Washington Post
Victims in Beltway Crash Identified
By Clarence Williams and Elissa Silverman
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, May 31, 2007; 12:32 PM
A police attempt to stop a speeding motorcycle touched off a gruesome series of collisions on both sides of the Capital Beltway in Prince George's County last night, killing two people and injuring 15 others, including two officers.
The seven-vehicle pileup, one of the Beltway's most violent in recent memory, closed down all lanes of the inner loop in the Forestville area for nearly five hours and snarled traffic on both sides of the highway late into the night.
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The dead were identified as Kevin McCarter, 40, of Ft Washington, and Sidney Clanton of Buffalo, N.Y. The injured were taken to hospitals; one of them was said to be in critical condition.
The motorcycle sped off and its driver remained at large, police said
"I've been in law enforcement a long time and have been on a number of tough scenes. And this is a tough scene," said Prince George's Police Chief Melvin C. High. "Your thoughts go to [the injured and dead], and their families and friends."
The accident was set in motion about 7 p.m. when a Prince George's police cruiser chasing the motorcycle on the outer loop near the Ritchie Marlboro Road exit slammed into a vehicle after the motorcycle cut in front of the car, police said.
The force of the impact caused the car to go airborne over the median's guardrail and into oncoming traffic on the inner loop. That caused a chain-reaction crash involving five southbound cars.
The collisions left vehicles strewn across the inner loop. One vehicle was overturned and bent like an accordion. Police said it was a sport-utility vehicle, but it was no longer identifiable. Rescuers ripped the tops off of at least two cars to free their occupants, said Cpl. Stephen Pacheco.
The officers involved in the crash were traveling in two vehicles, officials said. One was pursuing the motorcycle; the other was off-duty and heading home on the inner loop.
High said both officers were seriously injured, but the off-duty officer was hurt more severely. He was being treated last night at Prince George's Hospital Center. Neither officer's injuries were believed to be life-threatening, Pacheco said.
Traffic on the Beltway was at a standstill for hours. The inner loop was closed near Exit 13, the ramp for Ritchie Marlboro Road.
High said police captured the pursuit and ensuing crash with a video camera in a cruiser. Authorities will use the footage to try to identify the motorcycle and its driver, he said. Police also interviewed several witnesses.
The officer who pursed the motorcycle has been put on administrative leave, authorities said. Neither officer was immediately identified.
The accident "illustrates the problem we have with speed and what can happen in an instant," High said.
By Clarence Williams and Elissa Silverman
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, May 31, 2007; 12:32 PM
A police attempt to stop a speeding motorcycle touched off a gruesome series of collisions on both sides of the Capital Beltway in Prince George's County last night, killing two people and injuring 15 others, including two officers.
The seven-vehicle pileup, one of the Beltway's most violent in recent memory, closed down all lanes of the inner loop in the Forestville area for nearly five hours and snarled traffic on both sides of the highway late into the night.
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The dead were identified as Kevin McCarter, 40, of Ft Washington, and Sidney Clanton of Buffalo, N.Y. The injured were taken to hospitals; one of them was said to be in critical condition.
The motorcycle sped off and its driver remained at large, police said
"I've been in law enforcement a long time and have been on a number of tough scenes. And this is a tough scene," said Prince George's Police Chief Melvin C. High. "Your thoughts go to [the injured and dead], and their families and friends."
The accident was set in motion about 7 p.m. when a Prince George's police cruiser chasing the motorcycle on the outer loop near the Ritchie Marlboro Road exit slammed into a vehicle after the motorcycle cut in front of the car, police said.
The force of the impact caused the car to go airborne over the median's guardrail and into oncoming traffic on the inner loop. That caused a chain-reaction crash involving five southbound cars.
The collisions left vehicles strewn across the inner loop. One vehicle was overturned and bent like an accordion. Police said it was a sport-utility vehicle, but it was no longer identifiable. Rescuers ripped the tops off of at least two cars to free their occupants, said Cpl. Stephen Pacheco.
The officers involved in the crash were traveling in two vehicles, officials said. One was pursuing the motorcycle; the other was off-duty and heading home on the inner loop.
High said both officers were seriously injured, but the off-duty officer was hurt more severely. He was being treated last night at Prince George's Hospital Center. Neither officer's injuries were believed to be life-threatening, Pacheco said.
Traffic on the Beltway was at a standstill for hours. The inner loop was closed near Exit 13, the ramp for Ritchie Marlboro Road.
High said police captured the pursuit and ensuing crash with a video camera in a cruiser. Authorities will use the footage to try to identify the motorcycle and its driver, he said. Police also interviewed several witnesses.
The officer who pursed the motorcycle has been put on administrative leave, authorities said. Neither officer was immediately identified.
The accident "illustrates the problem we have with speed and what can happen in an instant," High said.
06-01-2007, 10:25 AM
#3
Yes the guy should not be speeding but there are proceducers that they go through and he didn't follow ..now people are killed ( that is just ignorant )
I am almost sure that choppers always catch them or get other cops involved , set up something..
I am almost sure that choppers always catch them or get other cops involved , set up something..
Last edited by WhyteLegend; 06-01-2007 at 10:27 AM.
06-01-2007, 10:46 AM
#5
Sounds to me like the cop was an idiot. While I am not a proponent against chases, I am not going to say that they should be totally eliminated either. But the average police officer lacks the skills and training needed to safely make a pursuit of a speeding subject and inevitably cause more problems than they resolve. Plus, police cruisers handle like boats so they aren't particularly well suited to high-speed chases anyway.
06-01-2007, 10:47 AM
#6
Drifting
There was a similar incident in my area last weekend. A guy in an SUV was stopped by a state trooper for a traffic violation and took off. The trooper gave chase through a very busy urban area which is not permitted per order of the state. In the end, the guy in the SUV crashed into a taxi killing a 20 year old in the back seat and putting his uninsured girlfriend in critical condition. The taxi driver is also in critical condition. Absolutely horrible...
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06-02-2007, 05:04 AM
#8
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More to the story: the one man killed, Mr. Clanton, is the brother of a female judge in Buffalo I appear regularly in front of. Judge Ogden is a wonderful lady and all who appear in front of her would agree. Totally senseless acts of stupidity fueld by machissimo.
06-02-2007, 11:23 AM
#11
Originally Posted by jmathew34
there is a big push fueled by media in maryland and politicians to ban sport bikes now..
Terry
06-02-2007, 12:47 PM
#12
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Originally Posted by teranfon
Instead, I suppose, of dealing with a department's pursuit policy that often puts more innocent people at risk than anything else. I'm sure that some pursuits are required, but more often than not its for some lowly traffic infraction. I'm sure many of the people police chase are idiots with little concern for others, but flashing lights, sirens, and a powerful cruiser doesn't immediately make an officer any better qualified to pursue these individuals.
Terry
Terry
As a matter of fact, it has been my experience that police officers constitute some of the worst drivers I have EVERY witnessed in my 20 years of driving.
06-02-2007, 01:53 PM
#14
A police cruiser for the most part can never, ever keep up with a >500cc sportbike without backup or helicopter support. Hell I've even heard of people on R1 forums saying if there's heat on them, they hit a switch that disables all lights on their bike and they just take off.
Politicians are the most hypocritical people in the world. Motioning to ban sportbikes? America is supposed to be the "free world" but we have BS like this. Motorcycles aren't the problem, its the two officers that tried to do too much on their own.
Politicians are the most hypocritical people in the world. Motioning to ban sportbikes? America is supposed to be the "free world" but we have BS like this. Motorcycles aren't the problem, its the two officers that tried to do too much on their own.
06-03-2007, 09:12 AM
#15
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Yep, it's always the fault of the police. Not the asshat on the bike going at most likely double the speed limit (or more) on a public road. It's called an accident. It's unfortuante but it happens. It's asswipe bikers like that which cause all the politicans and the like to get up in arms over sportbikes.
Should the police have given up the chase? Maybe. Or, maybe when the cars on the road who saw the officer chasing the bike should have pulled off to the side and given him clear passage. This definately could have been prevented, but none of us were there and saw what happened. We are only reading about the aftermath.
This is 100% the bikers fault. If he's found, he should be the one prosecuted, not the officers who pursued.
Should the police have given up the chase? Maybe. Or, maybe when the cars on the road who saw the officer chasing the bike should have pulled off to the side and given him clear passage. This definately could have been prevented, but none of us were there and saw what happened. We are only reading about the aftermath.
This is 100% the bikers fault. If he's found, he should be the one prosecuted, not the officers who pursued.
Last edited by CCns24; 06-03-2007 at 09:15 AM.
06-03-2007, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by F23A4
As a matter of fact, it has been my experience that police officers constitute some of the worst drivers I have EVERY witnessed in my 20 years of driving.
06-03-2007, 10:57 AM
#17
Racer
I don't think the issue is the amount of motorcyclists, it's the untrained police offers who are chasing. Personally, I ride a motorcycle on occassion and I find that majority of drivers do not pay attention to what they are doing. I ride a yellow bike, with a black and yellow jacket, and a POLICE CAR cuts me off because she was yapping on her wireless phone while driving. Makes no sense.
It's unfortunate when people lose their lives to individuals who have sworn to protect and serve.
It's unfortunate when people lose their lives to individuals who have sworn to protect and serve.
06-03-2007, 11:46 AM
#18
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by CCns24
That's funny coming from someone who lives in Jersey.
06-03-2007, 12:09 PM
#19
Originally Posted by CCns24
Yep, it's always the fault of the police. Not the asshat on the bike going at most likely double the speed limit (or more) on a public road. It's called an accident. It's unfortuante but it happens. It's asswipe bikers like that which cause all the politicans and the like to get up in arms over sportbikes.
Should the police have given up the chase? Maybe. Or, maybe when the cars on the road who saw the officer chasing the bike should have pulled off to the side and given him clear passage. This definately could have been prevented, but none of us were there and saw what happened. We are only reading about the aftermath.
This is 100% the bikers fault. If he's found, he should be the one prosecuted, not the officers who pursued.
Should the police have given up the chase? Maybe. Or, maybe when the cars on the road who saw the officer chasing the bike should have pulled off to the side and given him clear passage. This definately could have been prevented, but none of us were there and saw what happened. We are only reading about the aftermath.
This is 100% the bikers fault. If he's found, he should be the one prosecuted, not the officers who pursued.
You state that this was an accident. That it was unfortunate but it happened. I disagree with you. I think its terrible it happened, but that it may have been preventable. Of course the motorcyclist shares the blame, but blame also lies with the police if he was being pursued in a reckless manner by them putting innocent people at risk. Especially if the cause of the pursuit was for a lousy traffic violation. Yes, people should always stop if being pulled over by police, and obviously some choose not to do so. But putting innocent people at risk by pursuing these individuals often leads to tragedy.
Terry
Last edited by teranfon; 06-03-2007 at 12:12 PM.
06-03-2007, 03:11 PM
#21
E92
Happened right by me. The cop should have never chased them. My dad's friend drove by the scene too on the way home from work, and said there was a victim laying in the middle of the road missing their head.
So sad.
The cop would never have caught the sportbike anyways unless it crashed
So sad.
The cop would never have caught the sportbike anyways unless it crashed
06-04-2007, 01:23 AM
#22
Safety Car
Originally Posted by teranfon
The article also states that two officers were involved, one OFF-DUTY AND HEADING HOME. Now I sincerely doubt this officer was driving a full marked and identifiable police vehicle home for the night. And if he did indeed choose to drive his personal vehicle while off-duty to chase a motorcyclist then he definitely would have made it more difficult for other motorists to realize his intentions.
Last edited by Shadzilla; 06-04-2007 at 01:25 AM.
06-04-2007, 01:55 AM
#23
Originally Posted by Shadzilla
I don't think he was involved in the chase. He was on the inner loop (northbound lanes), the chase was taking place on the outer loop (southbound lanes). He was unfortunately one of the innocent bystandards traveling on the opposite side of road that was struck when the one car hopped the median.
Thanks for the clarification.
Terry
06-06-2007, 10:00 AM
#25
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One time in Nevada (early 90's) I had a Ford Escort tailgate me on the freeway, then drop back when I changed lanes.
Back and forth, over and over again. I couldn't figure out what this wierdo was doing. Just bizarre behavior. Eventually, I briefly zipped up to 90mph (open freeway, no cars) just to get away from this annoyance.
Escort struggled to match my pace, then tailgated me again. I move into the next lane, and nail the brakes to get a look at this nitwit.
He is yelling at me and showing me a badge. Un-frigging-believable. I respond with a very pronounced "F-you" and the finger.
Utter dumpcrap, totally unaware that his gung-ho attitude while OFF-DUTY made things worse.
Back and forth, over and over again. I couldn't figure out what this wierdo was doing. Just bizarre behavior. Eventually, I briefly zipped up to 90mph (open freeway, no cars) just to get away from this annoyance.
Escort struggled to match my pace, then tailgated me again. I move into the next lane, and nail the brakes to get a look at this nitwit.
He is yelling at me and showing me a badge. Un-frigging-believable. I respond with a very pronounced "F-you" and the finger.
Utter dumpcrap, totally unaware that his gung-ho attitude while OFF-DUTY made things worse.
06-06-2007, 11:32 AM
#27
2010 SHAWD
Originally Posted by Tripp11
All cop bashing in this thread, but no responsibility put on the motorcycle driver?
When the lights come on, you pull over - period.
When the lights come on, you pull over - period.
The cop should have tailed the vehicle from a safe distance so that he could relay the current location to the chopper.
06-06-2007, 12:03 PM
#28
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by CCns24
Yep, it's always the fault of the police. Not the asshat on the bike going at most likely double the speed limit (or more) on a public road. It's called an accident. It's unfortuante but it happens. It's asswipe bikers like that which cause all the politicans and the like to get up in arms over sportbikes.
Should the police have given up the chase? Maybe. Or, maybe when the cars on the road who saw the officer chasing the bike should have pulled off to the side and given him clear passage. This definately could have been prevented, but none of us were there and saw what happened. We are only reading about the aftermath.
This is 100% the bikers fault. If he's found, he should be the one prosecuted, not the officers who pursued.
Should the police have given up the chase? Maybe. Or, maybe when the cars on the road who saw the officer chasing the bike should have pulled off to the side and given him clear passage. This definately could have been prevented, but none of us were there and saw what happened. We are only reading about the aftermath.
This is 100% the bikers fault. If he's found, he should be the one prosecuted, not the officers who pursued.
Everyone pull off on the beltway in traffic? Not possible.
Car chases are a poor substitue for good police work. Get the perp on camera, enforce license plate laws, pick them up at their house later.
06-06-2007, 01:12 PM
#29
Originally Posted by brizey
Car chases are a poor substitue for good police work. Get the perp on camera, enforce license plate laws, pick them up at their house later.
06-06-2007, 01:22 PM
#30
Originally Posted by sonnyboyacura
I agree that you should pull over but when a person doesn't that doesn't give the cop permission to go all willy nilly in chase.
The cop should have tailed the vehicle from a safe distance so that he could relay the current location to the chopper.
The cop should have tailed the vehicle from a safe distance so that he could relay the current location to the chopper.
I was merely pointing out that everyone is bashing the cops, but no one is putting blame on the moron cafe racer that thought it would be a good idea to flea from a police cruiser attempting to stop that bike. The more appropriate venom would be better directed towards those who don't abide by the law and CHOOSE to flea from the police and endangering innocent lives.
After all, if dipshit cafe racer just pulls over, no one dies.
Not all cities have the luxury of having police helicopters to tail vehicles from a bird's eye view while the pursuing police cruisers back off.
People who don't have anything to hide, pull over.
People who are trying to hide something, flea. Perhaps something in their car which would be a felony?
I'm not rubber stamping every single police chase and saying we pursue no matter what, but the hate is directed towards the wrong parties.
06-06-2007, 01:31 PM
#31
2010 SHAWD
Originally Posted by Tripp11
I never stated the cops should "go all willy nilly" in pursuit of a suspect vehicle, and I agree there should be certain protocol which is followed.
I was merely pointing out that everyone is bashing the cops, but no one is putting blame on the moron cafe racer that thought it would be a good idea to flea from a police cruiser attempting to stop that bike. The more appropriate venom would be better directed towards those who don't abide by the law and CHOOSE to flea from the police and endangering innocent lives.
After all, if dipshit cafe racer just pulls over, no one dies.
Not all cities have the luxury of having police helicopters to tail vehicles from a bird's eye view while the pursuing police cruisers back off.
People who don't have anything to hide, pull over.
People who are trying to hide something, flea. Perhaps something in their car which would be a felony?
I'm not rubber stamping every single police chase and saying we pursue no matter what, but the hate is directed towards the wrong parties.
I was merely pointing out that everyone is bashing the cops, but no one is putting blame on the moron cafe racer that thought it would be a good idea to flea from a police cruiser attempting to stop that bike. The more appropriate venom would be better directed towards those who don't abide by the law and CHOOSE to flea from the police and endangering innocent lives.
After all, if dipshit cafe racer just pulls over, no one dies.
Not all cities have the luxury of having police helicopters to tail vehicles from a bird's eye view while the pursuing police cruisers back off.
People who don't have anything to hide, pull over.
People who are trying to hide something, flea. Perhaps something in their car which would be a felony?
I'm not rubber stamping every single police chase and saying we pursue no matter what, but the hate is directed towards the wrong parties.
IMO, they should have kept the guy within eyesight to relay his current location to the chopper and wait for the idiot to run out of gas.
06-06-2007, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by synth19
This is some bullshit. It's stories like these we never see in the BS propoganda police chase videos on fox. The assalient ALWAYS gets caught and police always do the right thing... right? It's stories like this which piss me off. The police think the guy speeding is endangering ppl, so he must be stopped, so what do they do? Chase the guys in even FASTER speeds and put more ppl's lives at risk? It's retarded. Cops need to take it down a notch, not make this shit personal and don't worry about being a hero. Call for backup, cut this dude off a few miles ahead, or whatever. It would have saved 2 lives. Maybe you won't even get the guy? I'd rather live with that.
It's not really the cops fault but in a way it was. All he had to do is turn down a fucking notch.
06-06-2007, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Tripp11
All cop bashing in this thread, but no responsibility put on the motorcycle driver?
When the lights come on, you pull over - period.
When the lights come on, you pull over - period.
Most people don't really pay much attention to what's behind them. Many of the motorists today tend to stay still when sirens comes on, especially when it comes to a speed chase. You never know which direction the suspect is likely to go so you tend to stay in your lane. In this case, the bike cuts in front of the car and the cop collided into... meh... you very well know what I mean.
06-06-2007, 04:17 PM
#34
Originally Posted by BoostedJack
Most people don't really pay much attention to what's behind them. Many of the motorists today tend to stay still when sirens comes on, especially when it comes to a speed chase. You never know which direction the suspect is likely to go so you tend to stay in your lane. In this case, the bike cuts in front of the car and the cop collided into... meh... you very well know what I mean.Everyone bashes the cops for pursuing, but what about the moron motorcycle driver who wouldn't pull over for the cop at the initial point of the stop? He gets a free pass?
06-09-2007, 04:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Tripp11
I was referencing the motorcycle who was fleeing...or anyone else who sees lights behind them for a traffic stop. You DON'T FLEE.
Everyone bashes the cops for pursuing, but what about the moron motorcycle driver who wouldn't pull over for the cop at the initial point of the stop? He gets a free pass?
Everyone bashes the cops for pursuing, but what about the moron motorcycle driver who wouldn't pull over for the cop at the initial point of the stop? He gets a free pass?
06-09-2007, 09:07 AM
#36
Originally Posted by F23A4
As a matter of fact, it has been my experience that police officers constitute some of the worst drivers I have EVERY witnessed in my 20 years of driving.
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