civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Stage 1 is ok with stock plugs, but you can gap them down to .024. Just be aware that they'll need to be replaced more frequently.

SamDoe1

How frequently are we talking?

Realistically I'll only be keeping this car for another 2 years tops until the Rivian R1T is available to me.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

25k miles IIRC

SamDoe1

That's fine, that'll take me another 4 years to get there lol. Car hasn't even passed 17k miles yet.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

On the EA888 it's more like 15k mile intervals.

SamDoe1

Even for stage 1 low torque tunes?

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

On average, yeah. I'm right around 10k on my plugs and should regap them once more to get another ~2k out of them, but I'm not keeping the car around that long.

This is what APR has on their website for stage 1 tunes (which is what APR+ is, 91 octane low torque):

SamDoe1

Ah ok, well it's not a huge deal. Plugs are cheap and easy to install anyway.

It'll take me a year or more to put 12k on the car anyway.

SamDoe1

So...we have discovered that the Outback isn't big enough for our needs of transporting the two of us, an adult golden retriever, one baby, and all of the shit that comes along with that group of people (yes, dog counts as person). We took one trip to my parent's place for turkey day and the OB was stuffed FULL of shit and we even tried to travel light for that one. If we were going for an overnight trip we'd be screwed let alone a multi day adventure. That said, we're looking to replace it for something bigger. Requirements are as follows:

- Must have space lol. Needs to be able to accommodate the aforementioned group of people plus shit for road trips and adventures lasting 1w+. This means stroller, bags, cooler, diaper bags, food, etc. We currently have just the one baby and will likely be done but want something big enough to accommodate another if we choose, for some reason, to do this whole sleepless night, screaming kid thing again.
- 3rd row required. The space above isn't required with the 3rd row up as it would likely be impossible this side of a Ford Excursion.
- Needs to go down the highway with confidence and comfort. Need something that will eat miles like a snack and do it with ease. One of my biggest gripes with the OB is that it's not that confident on the road. It's fine, but the VW (and other German cars) just have a huge sense of confidence driving down the highway.
- Must have all the safety/driver assist features. This means adaptive cruise, blind spot, lane keep, etc.
- Must be reliable. We want to take road trips with this thing so need it to not require trips to the dealership every other week.
- New or CPO (1yr old or less)
- Must have Android Auto
- Must be able to tow minimum 5k lbs.
- Flexible on budget but a Range Rover isn't in the budget lol.
- Good fuel economy is a plus

Current contenders:
- Audi Q7 55
- CPO (can't afford new one) MB GLS450
- Tahoe Premier
- Yukon Denali
- Volvo XC90
- Hyundai Pallisade
- Kia Telluride

I'm not interested in the Highlander (too boring and doesn't drive all that great), Pilot (the ZF9 can die a horrible death), the CX-9 (can't tow), the MDX (see ZF9), the new MDX (hate the new infotainment), BMW X7 (the middle seats don't fold flat, WTF?), any EV (we will be taking numerous trips to my inlaw's place and there's nowhere to charge there, they don't even have internet. srsly), any Nissan product.

What all am I missing? Thoughts from the hive mind? Anyone interested in a low mileage Outback?

nist7

@SamDoe1 Reading your list of requirements/wants, a minivan actually fits into ALL of that except the towing. The new '21 Sienna gets 35mpg+, massive room, super practical with the sliding doors, looks decent to me, dead reliable, safe, has android auto, road feel also may be suspect...but any high profile vehicle may be a bit dicey when the winds pick up at highway speeds..... But I'm guessing a van is a non-starter already?

It beats literally everything else EXCEPT for towing and the subjective looks/image perception anxiety of the driver.

Maybe I'm biased since I just watched savagegees' sienna review...literally better than most SUVs in most ways except for towing, off-roading, and the image.

SamDoe1

Yeah, a van has definitely been discussed but omitted because of towing. Off roading isn't a need for this vehicle, it will be strictly on road or basic gravel roads. We have a rather decent off roader already lol. I LOVE vans and wouldn't hesitate to get one should they be able to tow. Oh another requirement I forgot to add is the need for AWD. I know the old Sienna came in AWD, not sure if the newest one does. The image doesn't bother me at all, vans truly are the best at what they do.

cu2wagon

Yeah, you want a minivan. Odyssey or Sienna. I guess whatever Hyundai/Kia makes if you want disposable.

​​​​​​

Aman

So no Rivian in the next couple of years?

I think the Q7 is your winner. The car mags all seem to love the Palisade/Telluride as well.

You can give a passing glance to the Atlas, but I don't think it's particularly exciting or have the VW "solidity" you're looking for.

Lexus still makes the GX 470. Tows 6500 pounds, but it is quite an old design. Pretty sure the Durango can also haul, but again an older design.

Flipster23

iTrader: (15)

Shiiit I love my Ody! The interior of the new sienna is plain out hideous

Telluride is dope, my neighbor has one. I’ve thought about getting one for myself (along with 49 other cars). The telluride drives nice too!

00TL-P3.2

CPO or NOS EcoBoost Flex Limited? Finding one with the tech pkg & driver assist can be a challenge, but easier if you're not overly color picky. And they're comparatively cheap against the Exploder Sport/ST.

We just did a weekend at the beach, me, wife & 3 kids (infant in a rear faced seat & middle in a 5 pt seat).
Plenty of room in the back with the 3rd row folded:

• 3 suitcases (older kids got their own for Christmas)
• Soft-sided Yeti bag cooler
• Collapsible bassinet
• Britax stroller
• Misc other stuff

Even with the above, it only came up to the top of the 2nd row seat.

We took a road trip to CA in it a couple years ago & loaded the back down pretty heavily.

MPG isn't amazing, I think we average around 19-21, with the best I've recorded in it around 25 MPG on the above CA trip.
Edit: Ours is the N/A V6, not the EcoBoost, so I imagine the EB with AWD drops the MPGs a bit.

But, I've also seen a Livernois tuned EB Flex hauling a quad jetski trailer & I believe @fsttyms1 pulled a boat with his Exploder Sport.

SamDoe1

Wife doesn't really want disposable and the newer Kia/Hyundais are pretty nice. Vans are unfortunately out due to tow/AWD unavailability. I'd buy a Oddy in a heartbeat if they did.

Rivian still most definitely on the table. I won't be able to even get one for a couple years anyway lol. The first non-launch edition deliveries are set for early 2022 and with how far down the line I'd be, I'm sure my truck wouldn't show up until late 2022 or 2023.

Q7 is current front runner because price and rapid initial depreciation to get a very lightly used one (<5k mi) for a substantial discount. The downside is they are smaller on the inside than the other options.

I've driven the Atlas as a rental car once, it sucks. It has every bit of the "made for the USDM" vibe going on, just a big lumbering cheap POS.

We are going to give the Kia/Hyundai a shot but those also will depreciate like mad.

The Tahoe/Yukons don't depreciate nearly as much but they are quite a lot more expensive.

Lexus GX was thrown out due to how ancient it is and the wife thinks it's ugly...and she's not wrong.

I should mention that I'm trying to get her to try out a Land Cruiser but the fuel economy of that thing is truly abysmal. I think it's 13/18 or something like that lol, that's way worse than the Tahoe/Yukon.

Going to give it a try. Hoping to try to set up drives soon. Need to figure out how to navigate Covid car buying and also car buying with a newborn...

The Flex is old and looks as such. I'll give it a look but I'm guessing it's not going to meet all the requirements.

New Exploder is a potential that we should look at (ST model looks fun) but that center screen seems like a travesty lol.

00TL-P3.2

Looking forward to your thoughts on the Telluride. We may be in the market in mid to late '21.
The thing my wife likes about the Flex is that it drives more car-like than truck/suv-like. Ours is a 2013 w/ 120k on it & still drives great.
My in-laws have a 2016 AWD. They [Ford] must've made some adjustments, as there are a few things that are different with theirs (both are SELs). The steering is nicer on the 16, not sure if that's due to the AWD, or just a change between years.

The Ford Sync3 w/ AndroidAuto works well. Definitely miss that from my F150.

Flipster23

iTrader: (15)

Exploder ST...

even if you wanted to go 2013+ and get a sport.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Fuck Ford.

Space wise you won't beat the Suburban or Odyssey.
Q7, XC90, MDX and any other normal sized SUV that offers a 3rd row the last row is gonna be for midgets or my daughter.

With that said, just went to Acadia with the lady and the rental dude said I was nice and patient and gave me a 2020 Q7 for the
price of the an Escape. It drove spectacularly...and for driving like a dick in sport mode it actually netted decent gas mileage (to me).

Personally though Sam...you're not a pussy. Get a 2015+ Escalade and call it a day...6.2L, cheap parts if you ever need em and arguably
super high end luxurious red carpet perception and ALL the bells and whistles. J loved the rugged look of the Suburban which is why we
went with it aside from saving us probably $10k+ used...we have been to Tennessee and back in it and every time she takes it I have zero
worries about her getting stranded. Bought it with 110K and has 127K now and all I had to contend with was a set of used rear magnetic ride
shocks (btw, being able to throw this tank around corners, gun it, slam on brakes and HANDLE is mind boggling...the thing is poised).

The ONLY advantage the Ody had over the Burban was loading on top was easier and doors not being able to be flung open by kids...but all our
kids are mindful at this age, even little Z (careful Daddy, we don't want to ding that car next to us! ).
Big advantage to the GM is I don't feel like a giant pussy driving it. Also, when anything goes bad on it, rockauto and 1a auto will be my shit since
I have high mileage and no warranty (won't be the case for you).

In one afternoon Alex made his wife's bulletproof

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Forgot to mention I got an XC90 too recently...2.5T FWD. I guess technically I have
a Ford now (1999-2010 the owned Volvo).
Mainly to flip and learn the platform...I will have my V70R one day.

The new Volvos are gorgeous but I think they are overcomplicating them and I know
@1StGenCL would not recommend.

1StGenCL

My wife loves her XC90 but I’m a bit worried about her packing 30-35k a year on it after covid. We bought it with 15k miles and it’s had a missing engine mount and a broken axle, which seems odd due to no accidents and no evidence of repaints but Volvo fixed under warranty (total of two weeks without the car but had a loaner). The sunroof has leaked twice, it’s now locking and unlocking on its own when you get close with the key, which is also odd. I ran front and rear dash cams and just accessing the fuse panel involved pulling the passenger side trim and carpet out, overly complicated but she loves it so...

She had a 2013 Edge with over 200k on it and it ran and looked like new. She had the two tone interior and I upgraded it to sync 3 so it felt more modern with CarPlay and we really enjoyed the car. Maintance was super low and tires seemed to last forever where the Volvo seems to top out at 15k miles per set.

SamDoe1

Damn, that's sad to hear about the reliability concerns. I definitely want something we can pack up and hit the road without concerns, sounds like the Volvo isn't it...crossing it off the list. Too bad because the interior of it looks boss.

@rockstar143 Deep down I know that the Tahoe/Yukon will be my best bet, I'm just trying to rationalize something cheaper lol. The 2021 models have so many substantial improvements that it's hard for me to get a used one knowing that those improvements exist. Maybe I'll wait a few months for the hype to go down before looking into it more but it's seeming more and more likely that we'll go that route. I know the "mid size" crossovers have a mostly useless third row and that's ok. It'll be mostly for use in a pinch or for the dog to sit back there, that's about it. The Q7 still leads the pack for those as it seems to still be fairly reliable compared to the competition and has the features I'd be looking for.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Truth be told I don't like the 2021...I think the styling looks Ford-like.
I would go 2017 when they switched the Burban to the Premier vs LTZ.

but if 3rd row is just for the hairy child then you cannot go wrong with the Q7.
I put about 800 miles on it in varying weather conditions including 3 feet of snow
and some fun doughnuts and it handled it SUPERBLY...heated up super fast, seat
warmers were the shit...if that car is in budget that's literally your answer. It made me
want one with absolutely not need for one.

00TL-P3.2

A Tahoe/Yukon would probably suffice over the Burban/YXL (I prefer the Yukon's looks in the generation, but prefer the Tahoe in the 07-13 gen).
My dad averages high teens to barely 20 in his '12 Denali XL (6.2 V8 2WD). That mileage plummets when towing (open 12ft trailer with a Kawi Mule on it) to around 12.

SamDoe1

Looks wise I'm a bigger fan of the previous gen but the newest one switched to IRS so there's a crap ton more space in the back. Add on the new tech and other gadgets/gizmos/safety bits and it starts to make it far more appealing to get the newer one vs a used one.

I'm going to try and set up drives of the Q7 and the Tahoe/Yukon. I'd really love another Denali, doing the build and price thing online shows a Denali being like $3k more than an equivalent Tahoe and, for that much, I'd pay it for the prestige lol.

Yeah, they aren't really known for their fuel economy lol. I think the new ones are rated at 16/20 but who knows what real world would end up being.

1StGenCL

I wanted her to get the new Tahoe but I had little say; if I were you, I’d go Escalade 😬

SamDoe1

I wish. I can't afford the new Escalade though... Even the Denali is knocking at the very very high end of what I want to spend.

SamDoe1

Going to take a look at the Q7 this weekend. Adding the Genesis GV80 to the list as well.

00TL-P3.2

Aman

Good move adding the GV80 to the list I think. Have you considered the Infiniti QX90? (or whatever it's called, the big Armada looking one)

SamDoe1

Nope. I'm not a fan of Nissans or Toyotas (excluding Land Cruiser) so all of those are out. A friend of mine has an Armada and it really looks old and crappy inside for how much she paid for it.

nist7

Nissan is a tier (or two) lower than Toyota.

I recently had a rental Nissan Aramada and the tarted up Infiniti QX80 earlier in the year as well....horrible SUVs and stay far away from them....

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

You won't be disappointed with the Audi or Tahoe for that matter.
Personally I think visually for how tall and wide they have gotten over
the years, I like the length of the XL better...plus, they ride smoother.

Denali for that 6.2L though

gatrhumpy

iTrader: (1)

Fuck Chevy. Never again.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

at least their dashes don't crack

Flipster23

iTrader: (15)

well you had a Traverse. I would have said fuck no to that too.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Yeah, that too...
I don't love all models of all brands but there's a reason why the Suburban is the longest running model name in all vehicles.

SamDoe1

My inlaws have a Traverse. It's a steaming pile o shit filled with cheap plastics and crappy build quality. Comparatively, the Tahoe/Suburban/Yukon might as well be made by a different manufacturer lol. GM does awesome at trucks. They suck at everything else.

Going to check out the Tahoe next weekend, going to get an appointment set up to go see one.

Went and looked at a Q7 over the weekend and thought it was super nice. Drove well, handled great, went down the highway with quiet confidence, all of the things. Wife was a bit concerned over if it had enough space so we are going to keep looking. The Owdi is certainly not off the list at this point. I did share people's comments on here regarding the XC90 and we decided to nix it from the list. It was already hanging on by a thread anyway due to it being smaller than everything else. Also going to check out the Palisade/Telluride soon as well.

With the way our schedules are with baby and work, we can only go see one of these a weekend so it's going to take a while to get through the list. Good thing we're not in any hurry.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

I'm excited for your test drive...
I like the looks of the Palisade and Telluride but I can't get past the brand image thing.
and yes, I've had some turds.

TylerT

iTrader: (1)

Cuck life is the best life!