Stuck accelerator kills 4 in Santee *Recall - Page 2*

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Old 10-20-2009, 09:32 AM
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man, imagine trying everything and the car won't listen...

I probably would have told everybody to hold on and swerve to make the car skid out a few times, maybe roll it over, better chance if any to survive a roll over than an impact going that fast.

RIP.
Old 10-20-2009, 09:51 AM
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something like this will def sway my decision whether i buy another toyota product in the future. Not the fact that this may be an issue with the vehicles, but how a co covers up any possible issues and how they are dealing with it. It makes it sound like they don't value their customers or their lives.
Old 10-20-2009, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by rondog
man, imagine trying everything and the car won't listen...

I probably would have told everybody to hold on and swerve to make the car skid out a few times, maybe roll it over, better chance if any to survive a roll over than an impact going that fast.

RIP.
or e-brake.


i have trained the wifey what to do in emergencies like this. you just never know.
Old 10-20-2009, 10:13 AM
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I think the parking brake on the ES350 is electronic also (its a pedal) because the engagement doesn't really feel.... natural for lack of a better word. Not too sure how electronic parking brake systems work, but I would think if its electronic it would probably override the parking brake input if the vehicle was in motion. Can anyone verify?
Old 10-20-2009, 10:59 AM
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I read this and it's very sad, I can't figure out why a trained CHP officer wouldn't have known to throw it into neutral though - they are trained for panic situations, but we'll never know what was going on in the car. I get angry thinking about why they didn't put it in neutral, they probably would have been fine!

:RIP:
Old 10-20-2009, 11:03 AM
  #126  
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Originally Posted by timmahh
I read this and it's very sad, I can't figure out why a trained CHP officer wouldn't have known to throw it into neutral though - they are trained for panic situations, but we'll never know what was going on in the car. I get angry thinking about why they didn't put it in neutral, they probably would have been fine!

:RIP:
He probably did try. There was a video on an earlier page where someone else having this problem tried to put the car in neutral, but it wouldn't go. This is why I think it's not a floor mat problem, but rather some type of cover up for a malfunction of some sort.
Old 10-20-2009, 11:09 AM
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Oh

I started thinking about what I would do if this happened to me; thankfully i'd pull the car out of gear since it's a stick.. but then I started thinking what if I was in the 2010 TL when it did it? The smart key thing doesn't just let you turn the car off mid freeway, there is a procedure to follow - how many people who buy these cars with push button starters actually know how to turn it off?!
Old 10-20-2009, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by NSXNEXT
Can't see it at work but I've never seen a car that doesn't disengage the transmission when it's put into neutral.

Neutral = no power to the wheels
no power to the wheels = car will eventually come to a stop.

I call
Old 10-21-2009, 12:45 AM
  #129  
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Do the new Toyota's shift electronically? If it's anything like what you would find in a 7 series or S class, then I could see why it would refuse to shift into neutral. That is, if there is some sort of "bug" in the system that causes multiple components to fail. From what I remember, the ES, Camry and Avalon have traditional shift levers that engage mechanically.

This does sound like some sort of conspiracy, however. I like the theory that Toyota is secretly reflashing the electronics on the floor mat recall, but if it's true, it wouldn't take long before a disgruntled Toyota tech blows the whole thing wide open.
Old 10-21-2009, 01:20 AM
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I actually know a few Toyota techs.... I might try and dig up some dirt. Incognito of course
Old 10-21-2009, 05:16 AM
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Cool Try This...

Originally Posted by Blazin Si
Do the new Toyota's shift electronically? If it's anything like what you would find in a 7 series or S class, then I could see why it would refuse to shift into neutral. That is, if there is some sort of "bug" in the system that causes multiple components to fail. From what I remember, the ES, Camry and Avalon have traditional shift levers that engage mechanically.

This does sound like some sort of conspiracy, however. I like the theory that Toyota is secretly reflashing the electronics on the floor mat recall, but if it's true, it wouldn't take long before a disgruntled Toyota tech blows the whole thing wide open.
If anyone on here has a Toyota, or knows someone that does, that is effected by this, go with them to the dealer. See where the car goes, and what they do. Putting holes in a floor mat and zip tying it should be done while you wait, and in the parking lot.

I'd like to see the dealers face when they open the hood. Hell, put a note under the hood and say "you are being watched, do not reflash the ECU" and see if they react.
Old 10-21-2009, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by I Go To Costco
I think the parking brake on the ES350 is electronic also (its a pedal) because the engagement doesn't really feel.... natural for lack of a better word. Not too sure how electronic parking brake systems work, but I would think if its electronic it would probably override the parking brake input if the vehicle was in motion. Can anyone verify?
who knows, my es300 has the foot pedal, but it is attached by a cable. Maybe the es350's are different
Old 10-21-2009, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by majin ssj eric
Almost all modern AT's are electronically controlled. The shift lever position is just one of many inputs to the shift control unit. For instance on the 3G TL probably for others as well, the gear selection / trans range switch signal is input to the PCM, along with a dozen other inputs. The PCM is the final control over the operation of the transmission including the dynamic cruise control logic, grade logic, etc..


Originally Posted by Blazin Si
Do the new Toyota's shift electronically? If it's anything like what you would find in a 7 series or S class, then I could see why it would refuse to shift into neutral. That is, if there is some sort of "bug" in the system that causes multiple components to fail. From what I remember, the ES, Camry and Avalon have traditional shift levers that engage mechanically.

This does sound like some sort of conspiracy, however. I like the theory that Toyota is secretly reflashing the electronics on the floor mat recall, but if it's true, it wouldn't take long before a disgruntled Toyota tech blows the whole thing wide open.
It wouldn't surprise me..


Originally Posted by mrmako
If anyone on here has a Toyota, or knows someone that does, that is effected by this, go with them to the dealer. See where the car goes, and what they do. Putting holes in a floor mat and zip tying it should be done while you wait, and in the parking lot.

I'd like to see the dealers face when they open the hood. Hell, put a note under the hood and say "you are being watched, do not reflash the ECU" and see if they react.
+1
Old 10-21-2009, 10:55 AM
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On the 3G TL there is a common problem of the evap getting the PCM wet since the PCM sits below the evap core, this is usually due to a plugged drain tube, sometimes from a tech who puts a bolt in the tube to keep water from dripping on them while working on the car.. anyways.. it's not far fetched that if the PCM connections were to get shorted that such an operation could occur leaving no fail safe for the driver.. or indeed it could be a definite fault in the code. I'd be willing to review the code if someone can get their hands on one of the PCM's or find one at a reasonable price.
Old 10-21-2009, 02:20 PM
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My mom's '02 RX300 is not part of the recall, nor does it have an electronic throttle but the pedal is shaped similarly. I took her rubber floor mat off the retaining hook and pushed the accelerator to the floor. I then tried to wedge the pedal down using the rubber mat. No dice. The accelerator popped right back up and brought the mat with it.

I tried EVERYTHING I could think of to jam that gas pedal down using the floor mat and not one thing worked. So I'm still not buying this excuse.
Old 10-21-2009, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by mrmako
If anyone on here has a Toyota, or knows someone that does, that is effected by this, go with them to the dealer. See where the car goes, and what they do. Putting holes in a floor mat and zip tying it should be done while you wait, and in the parking lot.
I'm sure there will be guys on the Toyota and Lexus forums that will do this. I was on the CL site last night to see what they were saying, and most of them are defending their brand. So who knows.

Originally Posted by PortlandRL
My mom's '02 RX300 is not part of the recall, nor does it have an electronic throttle but the pedal is shaped similarly. I took her rubber floor mat off the retaining hook and pushed the accelerator to the floor. I then tried to wedge the pedal down using the rubber mat. No dice. The accelerator popped right back up and brought the mat with it.

I tried EVERYTHING I could think of to jam that gas pedal down using the floor mat and not one thing worked. So I'm still not buying this excuse.
Interesting. I'd like to get a good look at how low the gas pedal hangs in the newer Toyota's. I can understand that a floor mat might press against the accelerator, but to hold it down so that the car continues to gain speed? Not buying it.
Old 10-21-2009, 08:48 PM
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Agree. I dont buy the floor mat problem.
Old 10-26-2009, 05:54 AM
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Owing to the fact that it's Toyota and the media has not really been covering this all too well, finding new information is difficult but I managed to stumble upon this sobering news article courtesy of the Los Angeles Times. Key notes are in bold...I am still at a loss for words.

Why on God's green earth would you not incorporate a fail safe mechanism. Jesus.

Toyota's runaway-car worries may not stop at floor mats
By Ralph Vartabedian and Ken Bensinger

The 2009 Lexus ES 350 shot through suburban San Diego like a runaway missile, weaving at 120 miles an hour through rush hour freeway traffic as flames flashed from under the car.

At the wheel, veteran California Highway Patrol Officer Mark Saylor desperately tried to control the 272-horsepower engine that was roaring at full throttle as his wife, teenage daughter and brother-in-law were gripped by fear.

"We’re in trouble. . . . There’s no brakes," Saylor's brother-in-law Chris Lastrella told a police dispatcher over a cellphone. Moments later, frantic shrieks filled the car as it slammed into another vehicle and then careened into a dirt embankment, killing all four aboard.

The tragedy Aug. 28 was at least the fifth fatal crash in the U.S. over the last two years involving runaway Toyota and Lexus vehicles made by Toyota Motor Corp. It is also among hundreds of incidents of sudden acceleration involving the company's vehicles that have been reported to Toyota or the federal government, according to an examination of public records by The Times.

Toyota has blamed the incidents -- apart from those caused by driver error -- on its floor mats, asserting that if they are improperly installed they can jam open the accelerator pedal. A month after the Saylor crash, Toyota issued its biggest recall in company history, affecting 3.8 million vehicles in model years as far back as 2004. But auto safety experts believe there may be a bigger problem with Toyota vehicles than simply the floor mats.

The Saylor crash and others like it across the country, they say, point to a troubling possibility: that Toyota's ignition, transmission and braking systems may make it difficult for drivers to combat sudden or unintended accelerations and safely recover, regardless of their cause.

Toyota is not the only car company to be hit with reports of sudden acceleration, but the San Diego fatality, the massive recall that came in its wake and Toyota's position as the world's largest automaker have focused intense scrutiny on the company by federal safety regulators and others.

"This is Toyota's Firestone," said Sean Kane, president of Safety Research & Strategies, a Rehoboth, Mass., auto safety consulting firm. He was referring to the public relations disaster that hit Bridgestone/Firestone almost 10 years ago over defective tires that caused a series of fatal accidents.

"Right now," Kane said, "when you say sudden acceleration, Toyota is it."

In addition to Saylor and Lastrella, the San Diego crash killed Saylor's wife, Cleofe Lastrella, and their only child, 13-year-old daughter Mahala.

Signaling how seriously the company takes the incident, Toyota President Akio Toyoda made an apology this month while meeting with the Japanese news media.

"Customers bought our cars because they thought they were the safest," he said. "But now we have given them cause for grave concern. I can't begin to express my remorse."

One remedy being considered by Toyota implicitly acknowledges what critics have been saying for almost 10 years: that the company's highly computerized engine control system lacks a fail-safe mechanism that can quickly extinguish sudden acceleration events, whether they are caused by floor mats, driver errors or even unknown defects in the electronic control system, as alleged in some lawsuits.

Reports of sudden acceleration in Toyota vehicles has resulted in nine federal inquiries and investigations since 2000, two of which determined that there were improperly positioned floor mats. Another found a loose part in Sienna minivans, and yet another probe remains open. The rest were dismissed with no findings of equipment problems.

In most Toyota vehicles, the floor mats are held in place by two clips, which can come loose. Toyota offers a standard carpeted floor mat and an optional rubber version. Both mats have a cutout around the accelerator pedal. The vehicle driven by Saylor had a rubber floor mat, but Toyota said it was for a different model of Lexus.

Since the San Diego crash, Toyota has urged all its customers to remove their floor mats as an interim fix. But longer term, Toyota spokesman Brian Lyons said, the company is examining significant design changes.

One possible remedy is to redesign the accelerator pedal to make it harder to get caught by a floor mat, he said. Another potential fix, he said, involves reprogramming the engine's computer to automatically cut power when a driver brakes while the gas pedal is depressed.

Such fail-safes are needed, auto experts say, because sudden acceleration can cause drivers to panic, diminishing their ability to take swift action -- such as shutting off the engine or shifting into neutral.
Old 10-26-2009, 08:07 PM
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Let me just say for the record that I have absolutely no hesitation in driving our IS350. I don't really buy conspiracy theories and I feel that the IS is just as safe if not safer than any other car on the road....
Old 10-26-2009, 08:12 PM
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*Update*

Feds Point to Stuck Gas Pedal in Lexus Crash - (Full article below)

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/around-to...-66214482.html
Old 10-26-2009, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by majin ssj eric
Let me just say for the record that I have absolutely no hesitation in driving our IS350. I don't really buy conspiracy theories and I feel that the IS is just as safe if not safer than any other car on the road....
Good luck.
Old 11-08-2009, 02:29 AM
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Well, the lawsuit we all figured was en route has arrived.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=asUT1V4AurHk


By Margaret Cronin Fisk and Alan Ohnsman

Nov. 7 (Bloomberg) -- Toyota Motor Corp. has failed to correct a problem with the throttle control system on some of its vehicles, causing them to suddenly accelerate, lawyers for consumers said in a lawsuit.

Los Angeles residents Seong Bae Choi and Chris Chan Park, who claim they experienced multiple instances of unintended acceleration, filed the suit as a class action on Nov. 5, seeking to represent all U.S. owners of certain Toyota and Lexus models.

Toyota last month said it would recall as many as 3.8 million vehicles including Lexus ES luxury cars, Camry sedans and Prius hybrids over a potential flaw in which floor mats shifting out of position could jam the accelerator pedal. The mats aren’t the problem, plaintiff’s lawyer David Wright said.

“Neither driver error nor floor mats can explain away many other frightening instances of runaway Toyotas,” Wright said in a statement. “Until the company acknowledges the real problem and fixes it, we worry that other preventable injuries and deaths will occur.”

John Hanson, a spokesman for Toyota’s U.S. sales unit, said he hadn’t seen the suit and declined immediate comment.

2,000 Complaints

The plaintiffs claim Toyota and Lexus owners have made more than 2,000 complaints of sudden acceleration to the company and government agencies. They also allege that sudden acceleration episodes have resulted in accidents causing 16 deaths and 243 injuries.

Toyota failed to “incorporate important failsafe measures” allowing drivers to control the vehicles, the lawsuit said.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration on Oct. 30 declined a request to investigate Lexus ES models for possible flaws related to vehicle electronics that may also cause unintended acceleration.

The plaintiffs in the California lawsuit claim that unintended acceleration episodes are linked to an electronic throttle control system called ETCS-i in these vehicles.

An initial design called for “an electronic throttle control and a redundant mechanical linkage between the gas pedal and the engine throttle control as a failsafe in the event of a sudden unintended acceleration,” according to the complaint.

This feature would disconnect the electronic throttle control and allow a driver to stop the vehicle, the plaintiffs said. The company began selling vehicles without this feature around 2001, the consumers allege in the lawsuit.

‘Failsafe Measure’

They also claim Toyota failed to include another “failsafe measure” that would “automatically reduce the engine to idle when the brakes are being applied while the throttle is in an open position,” according to the complaint.

The plaintiffs are asking for an injunction, ordering the company to recall all Toyota and Lexus vehicles equipped with ETCS-i.

On Oct. 30, in a statement posted to the Federal Register denying a request for further investigation of Lexus ES models, NHTSA said “the only defect related to vehicle speed control in the subject vehicles involved the potential for accelerator pedals to become trapped near the floor by out-of-position or inappropriate floor mat installations.”

The agency said that after interviewing the Lexus ES owner who sought a federal investigation, examining his vehicle and conducting a range of tests on drive-train and electric systems, it failed to find sufficient evidence of electronic flaws.

The agency said that denying the petition “does not constitute a finding by NHTSA that a safety-related defect does not exist.”

Toyota, the world’s largest automaker, has its U.S. sales headquarters in Torrance, California. The company is based in Toyota City, Japan.

The case is Choi v. Toyota Motor Corp., CV 09-08143, U.S. District Court, Central District of California.
Old 11-08-2009, 09:14 AM
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I hope the Saylor & Lastrella family add themselves to the class action suit.
Old 11-08-2009, 08:24 PM
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Old 11-25-2009, 07:13 PM
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Part two of the recall is here and SURPRISE!!! It does not pertain to anything about the electronic throttle. Still not buying this crap and never buying another Toyota product. They may have succeeded in brainwashing a majority of the sheeople public but I'm not drinking the KoolAid.

Oh and major fail to the guy at the end of this article...you can't just 'turn the key' in these cars.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_toyota...90YXRvcmVwbA--

WASHINGTON – Toyota plans to replace the gas pedals on 4 million vehicles in the United States because the pedals can get stuck in the floor mats and cause sudden acceleration, a flaw that led to the sixth-largest recall ever in the U.S.

The repairs are a critical step to restoring the reputation of the world's biggest automaker, which suffered a blow when the recall was announced in September after years of making safe, reliable cars and trucks.

In plans outlined Wednesday, dealers will offer to shorten the length of the gas pedals by three-fourths of an inch beginning in January as a stopgap measure while the company develops replacement pedals. New pedals will be installed by dealers on a rolling basis beginning in April, and some vehicles will get a brake override system as a precaution.

The massive recall is the largest in the U.S. for Toyota Motor Corp. The Japanese automaker had earlier told owners to remove the driver's side floor mats to keep the gas pedal from becoming jammed.

Popular vehicles such as the midsize Camry, the top-selling car in America, and the Prius, the best-selling gas-electric hybrid, are among those to be fixed. The recall also includes the luxury Lexus ES350, the vehicle involved a fiery fatal accident in California that focused public attention on the danger.

Spokesman Irv Miller said Toyota is "very, very confident that we have addressed this issue." Toyota has no reason to believe that there are problems with the cars' electronic control systems, he said. An electronic-control malfunction also could cause unintended acceleration.

Toyota officials said the floor mats are only sold in the U.S., and the recall would be limited to North America.

Toyota would not say how much the repairs would cost, but analysts expected them to be extremely expensive because of the work involved and the manufacturing of new pedals. Toyota also said it would provide newly designed replacement floor mats.

Toyota developed a sterling reliability reputation but faced challenges as it rapidly expanded. While recalls do not always indicate poor reliability, Toyota executives are concerned about large numbers of recalls and have pushed for improved quality controls.

In a separate action, Toyota announced Tuesday the recall of 110,000 Tundra trucks from the 2000-03 model years to address excessive frame rust.

"Their reputation has taken a hit because the actual quality has taken a hit," said Aaron Bragman, an automotive analyst for the consulting firm IHS Global Insight. "That's absolutely critical for Toyota to get that fixed because that's the central pillar that they've built their business on."

Bartender Fitzroy Cunningham of Homestead, Pa., near Pittsburgh, owns a 1999 Lexus that's older than the recalled vehicles. He says he trusts the company and would buy another Lexus.

"It's a reputable car company, and they aim for perfection, so (the recall) was surprising," Cunningham said.

Scott Northcutt, a dealer in Enid, Okla., said he was confident that Toyota would do the recall properly. Only a few shoppers have mentioned the issue, and he does not think it cost him any sales.

The recall involves 3.8 million vehicles, including the 2007-10 Camry, 2005-10 Avalon, 2004-09 Prius, 2005-10 Tacoma, 2007-10 Tundra, 2007-10 Lexus ES350 and 2006-10 Lexus IS250/350.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said 4.26 million vehicles would be covered, including new cars and trucks sold or manufactured since September.

The nation's largest cumulative recall occurred in several increments during the past two years and involved 14 million Ford vehicles with faulty cruise-control switches that could cause fires.

The largest single recall happened in 1996 involving 7.9 million Ford vehicles that needed new ignition switches.

The Toyota recall came about after a high-speed crash in August involving a 2009 Lexus ES350 that killed a California Highway Patrol officer and three of his family members near San Diego. The Lexus accelerated to more than 120 mph, struck a sport utility vehicle, bounced off an embankment, rolled several times and burst into flames.

In a frantic 911 call, a family member said the accelerator was stuck.

Investigators determined that a rubber all-weather floor mat found in the wreckage was slightly longer than the mat that belonged in the vehicle, and it could have snared or covered the gas pedal.

The government has attributed at least five deaths and two injuries to floor mat-related acceleration in the Toyota vehicles. Regulators have received reports of more than 100 other incidents.

A Massachusetts safety consultant who has investigated the Toyota cases has found more than 2,000 incidents with 16 deaths and 243 injuries potentially tied to gas pedals.

Toyota and the government said dealers will shorten the length of the accelerator pedal and in some cases remove foam beneath carpeting to increase space between the pedal and floor. Owners of the ES350, the Camry and the Avalon will get first notification because the vehicles are believed to be at the most risk.

Toyota also plans to install a brake override system on the Camry, Avalon and Lexus ES350, IS350 and IS250 models. The system will ensure the vehicle will stop if the gas and brakes are applied simultaneously. Toyota plans to make the system standard on new Toyota and Lexus models by the end of 2010.

The automaker and government regulators have been discussing a potential fix for several weeks. Toyota urged owners in September to remove driver's side floor mats, saying that unhooked mats or replacements stacked atop the originals could lead to stuck accelerators.

John McEleney, a dealer in Clinton, Iowa, said the recall should not damage Toyota's reputation for quality. Toyotas are more reliable and quieter than ever, and that's how most people judge quality, he said.

Recalls, he said, are inevitable when a manufacturer assembles thousands of parts to make a car or truck.

"They're such complicated machines. I think there's always going to be issues that become concerns from a safety standpoint," he said.

Tom Beck, a mechanic from Irwin, Pa., near Pittsburgh, said the recall and the possibility of sudden acceleration would not influence his decision to shop for a new Prius to replace a Honda Civic.

"I'm a mechanic," he said. "If something were to happen, I would just turn the key," Beck said.

For more information, owners can contact Toyota at 800-331-4331 or the NHTSA hot line at 888-327-4236.

Last edited by PortlandRL; 11-25-2009 at 07:16 PM.
Old 11-25-2009, 08:04 PM
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You can't just "turn the key"..... Not with all of the electronic crap that car has. I hope Toyota fails because of this. I do love some of their JDM designs here, but I want the truth to come out.
Old 11-25-2009, 10:20 PM
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Toyota also plans to install a brake override system on the Camry, Avalon and Lexus ES350, IS350 and IS250 models. The system will ensure the vehicle will stop if the gas and brakes are applied simultaneously. Toyota plans to make the system standard on new Toyota and Lexus models by the end of 2010.
Shouldn't this have been standard from day 1?
Old 11-25-2009, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by LuvMyTSX
Shouldn't this have been standard from day 1?
That should have been a given.
Old 11-25-2009, 10:35 PM
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I'm not sure I've ever driven a car with that kind of override...
Old 11-25-2009, 10:38 PM
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Funny, not too long after I posted this that the national news here showed this issue, but it was more of a "Toyota is helpful" twist. They said the following:

"Toyota was recalling specific models with the floor mat issue (they listed them with model years)"

"None of the effected models are in Japan, as the Japanese floor mats are anchored in two places (then they showed a graphic with two hooks not one)"

They then talked with a Toyota US representative, then some people in the US who "love their Toyota" and would feel safe regardless.

What a bunch of

The only reason the Japanese news had this was because some Japanese have been to the US and heard about it, so they (Toyota) want to be sure the "domestic base" does not erode here.... I am really getting a bad feeling about Toyota.
Old 11-26-2009, 02:28 AM
  #151  
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Originally Posted by Majofo
Almost all modern AT's are electronically controlled. The shift lever position is just one of many inputs to the shift control unit. For instance on the 3G TL probably for others as well, the gear selection / trans range switch signal is input to the PCM, along with a dozen other inputs. The PCM is the final control over the operation of the transmission including the dynamic cruise control logic, grade logic, etc..




It wouldn't surprise me..




+1
The 2nd and 3rd gen TL will automatically disengage the cruize and slow down. I was goofing around with a 3rd gen TL and put in neutral and it IMMEDIATELY killed the cruise control and backed off of the throttle. in the 2nd gen you could feel the pedal being released in the third gen it was just engine cut to idle.

I would say that since this problem is not occuring on the DBW acuras that it is strictly a programming issue on toyota's part. The only 2 things that Acura overrides you on is if 1)you try to select a lower gear and you are going too fast, it will delay the shift until engine rpm would be in a safe range for downshift. 2) you bouce off of the rev limiter in the older cars while in ss it will move to the next gear up (I know newer versions will bounce off of the rev limiter all day)

Last edited by YeuEmMaiMai; 11-26-2009 at 02:32 AM.
Old 11-26-2009, 02:41 AM
  #152  
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Originally Posted by mrmako
They then talked with a Toyota US representative, then some people in the US who "love their Toyota" and would feel safe regardless.

What a bunch of

The only reason the Japanese news had this was because some Japanese have been to the US and heard about it, so they (Toyota) want to be sure the "domestic base" does not erode here.... I am really getting a bad feeling about Toyota.
Sheesh. What a load of crap.

Toyota had it all set up for second generation owners in my sister and myself. My mom drove two Toyotas and a Lexus and rather that continue to make decent cars, they fucked everything up and blamed it on the owners. Toyota! You will never see a red cent from me.
Old 11-26-2009, 02:59 PM
  #153  
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Originally Posted by LuvMyTSX
Shouldn't this have been standard from day 1?
too many brake torque fans I'm guessing, unless it only kills it at speed.


Originally Posted by YeuEmMaiMai
The 2nd and 3rd gen TL will automatically disengage the cruize and slow down. I was goofing around with a 3rd gen TL and put in neutral and it IMMEDIATELY killed the cruise control and backed off of the throttle. in the 2nd gen you could feel the pedal being released in the third gen it was just engine cut to idle.

I would say that since this problem is not occuring on the DBW acuras that it is strictly a programming issue on toyota's part. The only 2 things that Acura overrides you on is if 1)you try to select a lower gear and you are going too fast, it will delay the shift until engine rpm would be in a safe range for downshift. 2) you bouce off of the rev limiter in the older cars while in ss it will move to the next gear up (I know newer versions will bounce off of the rev limiter all day)
It could be a circuit issue. I do reliability work for a major computer mfg and it's not uncommon for a component to fail like a cap or diode or external factors to effect the pcm like moisture, shock, etc... I see some failure rates on singular components in the 10-20% range sometimes and that's very high. Most chipset & board designs are low cost ODM work, sometimes utilizing the cheapest components available. Again it could also be an external factor, look at the issues with the 3G TL having issues with the evap core leaking on the PCM due to a plugged / clogged drain line.

I agree that Toyota wont be seeing another cent from me or my family. I've had 6-7 Toyota products including currently a '01 Tundra Limited edition which falls under the recall, btw, very common & known issue including rear diff issues since it first came out. In fact they started selling this ridiculous defice to puts a charge to the frame and deters oxidation.. keyword is selling the device. The make a recall 9-10 years after the fact.. assholes.

Basically Toyota is issuing another ridiculous recall that'll cost them maybe 100M over the next 5-7 yrs. I doubt 1/2 the owners will go in for the recall. Toyota!
Old 11-27-2009, 04:38 PM
  #154  
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Tragic story. But i'm not scared off of Toyotas....the pushbutton start might make "turning the car off" tougher, i'll give you that, but there's not a car made that won't go into Neutral at ANY speed, for this very reason. Its too easy to second-guess, but there are many questions...
...why did he exit the highway? the highway would be the one place you could buy some time to figure it out...
...the accelerator "stuck", and they had time to make a 911 call but not to simply reach down and yank around down there to see what might be causing the problem?
...and the big one, as i said above, when all else fails, there's no key to turn off, etc., NEUTRAL IS YOUR FRIEND.

I guess this is one of the best arguments for manual transmissions, too
Old 11-27-2009, 04:41 PM
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That's the scary thing...when this has happened numerous people have tried putting it in neutral and the car keeps going! Remember there is no physical linkage between shifter and transmission anymore, it's all computers so there is no reason for it to approve a shift into neutral if it thinks that will damage the engine.

I will agree with you on the manual transmission argument.
Old 11-27-2009, 04:50 PM
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It seems like you would do what is obvious, until you are actually in that situation. You could just stay on the highway for white knuckles until you ran out of gas (if the highway was a long stretch), but you have no idea how you would react until you experience it.

Terrible all around, and the fact that Toyota is now on excuse #2 (floor mat, accelerator pedal) covering up the real problem (ECU code or a faulty ECU/wiring) makes this a sham. Screw Toyota. I hope someone can prove their coverup in court.
Old 11-27-2009, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by MiataNut
Tragic story. But i'm not scared off of Toyotas....the pushbutton start might make "turning the car off" tougher, i'll give you that, but there's not a car made that won't go into Neutral at ANY speed, for this very reason. Its too easy to second-guess, but there are many questions...
...why did he exit the highway? the highway would be the one place you could buy some time to figure it out...
...the accelerator "stuck", and they had time to make a 911 call but not to simply reach down and yank around down there to see what might be causing the problem?
...and the big one, as i said above, when all else fails, there's no key to turn off, etc., NEUTRAL IS YOUR FRIEND.

I guess this is one of the best arguments for manual transmissions, too
So much misinformation here.. did you know the world isn't flat nor is it the center of the universe as well?

He didn't exit the highway, the highway ended into a 3 way T-Intersection. He tried to take a turn & avoid traffic but ended up rear ending a vehicle before going into a death roll & bursting into flames. I jammed my weathermat & floormat on the accelerator of my RX300 and it didn't make the accelerator pedal go down or increase the RPMs while in neutral, but guess what, the cruise control system has an actuator as part of the accelerator pedal to make the pedal go down during acceleration input.

Modern AT cars aren't mechanically linked, they're controlled logically. This includes shift logic, engine, throttle, transmission.. even new dynamic braking systems. You think you would have faired better than a 20 year veteran of the CHP? I highly doubt it.
Old 11-27-2009, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by mrmako
It seems like you would do what is obvious, until you are actually in that situation. You could just stay on the highway for white knuckles until you ran out of gas (if the highway was a long stretch), but you have no idea how you would react until you experience it.

Terrible all around, and the fact that Toyota is now on excuse #2 (floor mat, accelerator pedal) covering up the real problem (ECU code or a faulty ECU/wiring) makes this a sham. Screw Toyota. I hope someone can prove their coverup in court.
I love how you somehow just know that the real problem is the ECU and that Toyota must just be lying about everything. Yeah, they are going to spend millions and millions of dollars re-engineering throttle pedals, redesigning footwells, replacing some 4 million floormats, etc even though they know the real problem is with the ECU which could be upgraded via a software patch for a fraction of the cost of this recall. That makes so much sense.

I'm not sure how it is that you have this "inside" info on what is "really" wrong with these cars (even though countless actual investigations by NHTSA have never found any ECU issues) but just because you live in Japan doesn't make you an expert on Toyota liability....
Old 11-27-2009, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Majofo
So much misinformation here.. did you know the world isn't flat nor is it the center of the universe as well?

He didn't exit the highway, the highway ended into a 3 way T-Intersection. He tried to take a turn & avoid traffic but ended up rear ending a vehicle before going into a death roll & bursting into flames. I jammed my weathermat & floormat on the accelerator of my RX300 and it didn't make the accelerator pedal go down or increase the RPMs while in neutral, but guess what, the cruise control system has an actuator as part of the accelerator pedal to make the pedal go down during acceleration input.

Modern AT cars aren't mechanically linked, they're controlled logically. This includes shift logic, engine, throttle, transmission.. even new dynamic braking systems. You think you would have faired better than a 20 year veteran of the CHP? I highly doubt it.
BTW, Edmunds (a neutral source) has repeatedly proven that a jammed accelerator pedal via floormat is not only possible but quite probable given the correct circumstances. The all-weather floormats in the ES350 tragedy were from the RX and were several inches too long for that car. They were also improperly installed on top of the original floormats. Given these circumstances it is quite possible to jam the pedal to full throttle. But you don't have to believe me, Edmunds has already done the reporting....
Old 11-27-2009, 08:05 PM
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i still dont see how come the brakes didnt work?


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