R&T Comparison - S4 vs. 335i vs. G37S vs. TL-SH AWD
#121
Drifting
Lots of heated conversation here.
I think the issue here is the image problem that Acura/Honda has been having for almost 20 years now. Take a look at every generation of the Accord/Civic/TL - They all look totally different. With Audi/MB/BMW/Porsche they all have a singular style that has lasted for 30-40-50years. Honda/Acura seems to change everything every 5-6 years or so keeping very little or nothing from the past.
The 4G is not a looker, by any means. I've taken steps to make it look significantly better than it was with the RJ grille and getting the headlights done. But the key thing with this car, I don't see the outside when I'm whipping around corners in 2nd gear.
But for a daily driver, it's the perfect car for ME. Is is the best car ever? NO, does it have some faults?, yup. I got it for AWD and MT and reliability (I need to hit at least 150k miles with little issue). Once my start-up gets acquired, I'll be looking for a Lotus Exige S or a GT3 or some fast ass, hot looking ride. The 4G will stay as a daily driver.
I think the issue here is the image problem that Acura/Honda has been having for almost 20 years now. Take a look at every generation of the Accord/Civic/TL - They all look totally different. With Audi/MB/BMW/Porsche they all have a singular style that has lasted for 30-40-50years. Honda/Acura seems to change everything every 5-6 years or so keeping very little or nothing from the past.
The 4G is not a looker, by any means. I've taken steps to make it look significantly better than it was with the RJ grille and getting the headlights done. But the key thing with this car, I don't see the outside when I'm whipping around corners in 2nd gear.
But for a daily driver, it's the perfect car for ME. Is is the best car ever? NO, does it have some faults?, yup. I got it for AWD and MT and reliability (I need to hit at least 150k miles with little issue). Once my start-up gets acquired, I'll be looking for a Lotus Exige S or a GT3 or some fast ass, hot looking ride. The 4G will stay as a daily driver.
#122
Senior Moderator
Are you in a position to be shopping for those cars?
The reason that I ask is that you are comparing the TL to cars that cost many thousands of pounds more. The A6 is in a completely, totally different price class.
To get vectoring AWD in an Audi, you have to pick an S4 and then add the optional vectoring AWD. This is going to get you a car costing about $58,000 compared to the TL's sticker of $43,000.
To talk about these cars in the same breath is not really relevant to what we have been discussing.
The discussion about the SH-AWD TL 6-6 and the 335i is more relevant because their stickers are closer, and in this case I think you'll find that the Acura performs very well indeed, offering a level of performance and technology that the BMW cannot achieve for the equivalent sum of money.
There are many, many people who will simply continue to like the way the BMW "feels" and there is no way to counter that. Once you get to know the TL, you will probably like it better than the BMW.
But if you are an "average" buyer, it is possible you will simply never like the TL because of the perception that the EPS is too quick, or too numb, or you just think it is ugly compared to the BMW. No way to counter those kinds of feelings because they are simply that...feelings, completely unquantifiable and illogical.
On the other hand, if you have lived with Honda for years, if you've had your share of Civics, Integras, Accords and so on, then you'll probably just love the TL inasmuch as it is a logical and entirely relevant and superior evolution of the Honda goals for living and life. That is to say, if we can get you into one of the things to begin with, and if you are even in the market for something in that price range.
The reason that I ask is that you are comparing the TL to cars that cost many thousands of pounds more. The A6 is in a completely, totally different price class.
To get vectoring AWD in an Audi, you have to pick an S4 and then add the optional vectoring AWD. This is going to get you a car costing about $58,000 compared to the TL's sticker of $43,000.
To talk about these cars in the same breath is not really relevant to what we have been discussing.
The discussion about the SH-AWD TL 6-6 and the 335i is more relevant because their stickers are closer, and in this case I think you'll find that the Acura performs very well indeed, offering a level of performance and technology that the BMW cannot achieve for the equivalent sum of money.
There are many, many people who will simply continue to like the way the BMW "feels" and there is no way to counter that. Once you get to know the TL, you will probably like it better than the BMW.
But if you are an "average" buyer, it is possible you will simply never like the TL because of the perception that the EPS is too quick, or too numb, or you just think it is ugly compared to the BMW. No way to counter those kinds of feelings because they are simply that...feelings, completely unquantifiable and illogical.
On the other hand, if you have lived with Honda for years, if you've had your share of Civics, Integras, Accords and so on, then you'll probably just love the TL inasmuch as it is a logical and entirely relevant and superior evolution of the Honda goals for living and life. That is to say, if we can get you into one of the things to begin with, and if you are even in the market for something in that price range.
That said, the other 4G TL proponent mentioned the comparison with respect to vehicle sizing:
Originally Posted by NJ SHAWD
If you look at the physical size of the car, I would think a better comparison would be with an A6, an M series Infiniti, and a 5 series BMW, but then again I guess we would kill them all on price.
In any event (and this portion I'm in Mod-mode), the problem here as I see it is that some of those with opposing or divergent points of view are being labeled as somewhat obtuse. It's quite possible that more articulation of said point(s) may be required but to be dismissive of those who disagree with a point of view as unenlightened numbskulls is disingenous and insulting. As such, the tone of this thread has taken the persona of the R&P subforum. There just needs to be an 'agree to disagree' moment here.
#123
Senior Moderator
Lots of heated conversation here.
I think the issue here is the image problem that Acura/Honda has been having for almost 20 years now. Take a look at every generation of the Accord/Civic/TL - They all look totally different. With Audi/MB/BMW/Porsche they all have a singular style that has lasted for 30-40-50years. Honda/Acura seems to change everything every 5-6 years or so keeping very little or nothing from the past.
The 4G is not a looker, by any means. I've taken steps to make it look significantly better than it was with the RJ grille and getting the headlights done. But the key thing with this car, I don't see the outside when I'm whipping around corners in 2nd gear.
But for a daily driver, it's the perfect car for ME. Is is the best car ever? NO, does it have some faults?, yup. I got it for AWD and MT and reliability (I need to hit at least 150k miles with little issue). Once my start-up gets acquired, I'll be looking for a Lotus Exige S or a GT3 or some fast ass, hot looking ride. The 4G will stay as a daily driver.
I think the issue here is the image problem that Acura/Honda has been having for almost 20 years now. Take a look at every generation of the Accord/Civic/TL - They all look totally different. With Audi/MB/BMW/Porsche they all have a singular style that has lasted for 30-40-50years. Honda/Acura seems to change everything every 5-6 years or so keeping very little or nothing from the past.
The 4G is not a looker, by any means. I've taken steps to make it look significantly better than it was with the RJ grille and getting the headlights done. But the key thing with this car, I don't see the outside when I'm whipping around corners in 2nd gear.
But for a daily driver, it's the perfect car for ME. Is is the best car ever? NO, does it have some faults?, yup. I got it for AWD and MT and reliability (I need to hit at least 150k miles with little issue). Once my start-up gets acquired, I'll be looking for a Lotus Exige S or a GT3 or some fast ass, hot looking ride. The 4G will stay as a daily driver.
#124
Grandpa
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In any event, the problem here as I see it is that some of those with opposing or divergent points of view are being labeled as somewhat obtuse. It's quite possible that more articulation of said point(s) may be required but to be dismissive of those who disagree with a point of view as unenlightened numbskulls is disingenous and insulting. As such, the tone of this thread has taken the persona of the R&P subforum.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSkWkAXdSyI&NR=1
If you are accusing us of being disingenuous, then you have caused an offence yourself and we cannot proceed.
Perhaps you should clarify if you really intended to cause offence.
#125
Drifting
There is a reason they make so many different types of cars, because so many people have a personal opinion about it. I like the fact that there are not many of the 4G's rolling around, plus due to the price, you don't see them all riced out like some 3g's out there. (again - personal preference on looks).
Personally, I think the 4G TL AWD MT, is the most underrated car Acura has ever made (I've had a 07 TL-S and a 04 TSX). The performance on this thing is just crazy, and I think if you haven't test drove one, you should try it and see. Again, it's not perfect, but it's one hell of a ride, and a totally different car even from the AT version. (Lighter, stiffer/sportier ride, faster)
When the Comptech SC comes out for the MT - watch out, that is going to be sub 5 seconds easily.
#126
Senior Moderator
Ok my last post since it seems being a mod i am not allowed to share my opinions? None of the mods here has posted as if they were in a higher power. No threats of being banned or locking the thread by anyone. The topic is civil and most of the mods here are NOT attacking any member. Some might take it too seriously but remember that bashing a CAR is not attacking a member. Its all matter of opinion and some of us are just stubborn, doesnt mean we flexing any power of ours.
We are mods and still members of this site, not Acura sales people.
Kingston, for the most part the members in car talks ARE potential customers for Acura and many of us here had honda products. Myself included, NSX, S2k, Snowblower and a TL. Let alone my father has had 4 RLs, mom had TSX, brother has a MDX. We still very loyal to the Honda product line and respect what they offer. Hell my next car will most likely be a honda minivan. For the most part they offer great value for a quality product. TL just is just priced now in a tough segment.
I might have sound heated but really wasnt, i slept well. Im fine with someone with their opinion if a certain car needs this or that. There are times i want to reply and just want to share my experience with the car that might differ. Thats all. Same as how the TL owners are doing with the article of R&T. No difference really. You arent seeing me calling others miscreants or ignorant for not agreeing with me.
Its the internet, none of us are that heated in this thread. Trust me.
We are mods and still members of this site, not Acura sales people.
Kingston, for the most part the members in car talks ARE potential customers for Acura and many of us here had honda products. Myself included, NSX, S2k, Snowblower and a TL. Let alone my father has had 4 RLs, mom had TSX, brother has a MDX. We still very loyal to the Honda product line and respect what they offer. Hell my next car will most likely be a honda minivan. For the most part they offer great value for a quality product. TL just is just priced now in a tough segment.
I might have sound heated but really wasnt, i slept well. Im fine with someone with their opinion if a certain car needs this or that. There are times i want to reply and just want to share my experience with the car that might differ. Thats all. Same as how the TL owners are doing with the article of R&T. No difference really. You arent seeing me calling others miscreants or ignorant for not agreeing with me.
Its the internet, none of us are that heated in this thread. Trust me.
#127
Grandpa
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Ignorance is the state of not having enough information.
It is not any kind of character assassination.
Calling a group of people miscreants without attaching anybody's name to the group is a judgement on the writer's part. It is a judgement he is allowed to make based on his observation of the progress of the thread and the general character of the discussion.
Calling a particular person disingenuous [sic] is a direct attack on an individual's character, and that is not something a writer is allowed to do.
When one does this, especially when there is cause to believe that research has been done regarding the person whom he is addressing, one exceeds his social competence, and that is pretty much all there is to it. :-)
It is not really necessary to continue the discussion if you do not want to do it.
#128
Moderator
Chapter Leader (South Florida Region)
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Everyone has an opinion. But opinions are fickle...and often should be honestly self reevaluated. I used to not like the 4G. But after seeing it lately, even with the OEM grill unpainted...I tend to think it's a nice looking car. I totally agree with the guy saying we can't argue our opinions.
If you're honest with yourself and subjective enough...you'll openly admit that something has some, if not all, of the qualities you'd look for in a car. At this point in the game...after seeing what Pete and Blackura are doing with the new body style...I can't help but think people are just repeating things to repeat them Either not forming their own opinions and just saying what the majority are saying...or they just form their opinion initially and refuse to change for the sake of argument. I'm getting tired of hearing about how ugly the 4G is. And I'm a 3G owner.
As far as Honda/Acura totally reconfiguring the styling of all their cars every 4 years instead of sticking with a recognizable shape...for me, as a consumer, I see that as a selling point. I LIKE that the new body style is something you've never seen before and not more of the same.
But then again...that is just my opinion
lol
If you're honest with yourself and subjective enough...you'll openly admit that something has some, if not all, of the qualities you'd look for in a car. At this point in the game...after seeing what Pete and Blackura are doing with the new body style...I can't help but think people are just repeating things to repeat them Either not forming their own opinions and just saying what the majority are saying...or they just form their opinion initially and refuse to change for the sake of argument. I'm getting tired of hearing about how ugly the 4G is. And I'm a 3G owner.
As far as Honda/Acura totally reconfiguring the styling of all their cars every 4 years instead of sticking with a recognizable shape...for me, as a consumer, I see that as a selling point. I LIKE that the new body style is something you've never seen before and not more of the same.
But then again...that is just my opinion
lol
Last edited by rockstar143; 03-30-2010 at 10:36 AM.
#129
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As far as Honda/Acura totally reconfiguring the styling of all their cars every 4 years instead of sticking with a recognizable shape...for me, as a consumer, I see that as a selling point. I LIKE that the new body style is something you've never seen before and not more of the same. l
When you look at what Ford is doing recently, however, and when you look at some of the GM stuff on the horizon, I think that we can look forward to some very stiff competition from the "American" car companies, and this might cause AHM to change how it is designing its cars in the future.
Some of what we're seeing in 2009/2010 is the result of Honda's horror at being associated with the F&F phenomenon. They refused to be a part of the resulting horsepower wars, and took a big step back and away from its previous enthusiast base, and deliberately went after safety.
Safety For Everyone was the buzz phrase and a very important programme right after F&F hit the scene.
And right when they were about to break out again, addressing enthusiasts who'd been holding out with their DC2 ITR, old NSX's and S2000's, the world economy collapsed.
It's as if they're voluntarily skipping what was supposed to be the next phase, almost pretending it doesn't exist, and going right on to the next phase, the hybrid and alternative technology phase.
But it's hard to forget that the rear-bias SH-AWD chassis is already designed, and that they have that twin-cam V8 and V10 on the shelves.
Maybe...one day.... :-)
#130
Senior Moderator
#132
Community Architect
robb m.
robb m.
opinions welcomed, leave your attitude at the door.
You are held to a higher standard as a mod. You aren't supposed to take sides, or bully your way through a conversation. You can't ram your opinion down my throat because you are a mod, just like I can't ram mine down yours.
You are held to a higher standard as a mod. You aren't supposed to take sides, or bully your way through a conversation. You can't ram your opinion down my throat because you are a mod, just like I can't ram mine down yours.
Actually, as this is not Ramblings, perhaps it's you who should realize that as a site representative, you're expected to be sensitive to everyone in a thread, not just your own view.
#133
Senior Moderator
My apologies if I came across as abrasive or unprofessional.
#134
Back From The dead
Thank you. I've been a mod at another forum. I understand it's a difficult and thankless job.
#135
Senior Moderator
Indeed, though I still say the 4G TL is unattractive, I never meant to come off like a 'male extremity' in making the point.
#136
Back From The dead
No problem, your opinion is still only that, and means nothing to anyone else.
#137
Community Architect
robb m.
robb m.
#138
Drifting
I have to say, it's great how passionate we all are about cars. That's what brings us here, our singular love for anything with an engine and 4 wheels (and sometimes 3 or 2).
#139
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
so.. back on topic
S4 >>>335i>>>>G37S>>>>4G TL for me
S4 >>>335i>>>>G37S>>>>4G TL for me
#140
Drifting
If I felt like spending whatever I wanted on my new car (and not whatever my wife wanted), almost.
For me.
S4 - the new one, supercharged >> 335xi (small on the inside but balls out fast, but would need to lease it so I don't deal with it post 50k miles.) >> 4G (what I got) >> G37S (no MT with their AWD , didn't like the interior/nav).
/thread
For me.
S4 - the new one, supercharged >> 335xi (small on the inside but balls out fast, but would need to lease it so I don't deal with it post 50k miles.) >> 4G (what I got) >> G37S (no MT with their AWD , didn't like the interior/nav).
/thread
#141
Back From The dead
For me:
It was a matter of practicality meets performance. I have to entertain customers on a regular basis, so I needed more room than can be found in the S4, the 335 or the G. I also drive 40,000 miles per year so I need a car that won't fall apart or kill me maintaining it. It doesn't make sense to blow $50k on an M, 5 or A6 series for the bigger size, with the kind of mileage I drive, so the best answer was the TL. It may not be the prettiest of the bunch, but it does stand out.
So for me 4G>S4>G37>335xi
Embrace the ugliness!
It was a matter of practicality meets performance. I have to entertain customers on a regular basis, so I needed more room than can be found in the S4, the 335 or the G. I also drive 40,000 miles per year so I need a car that won't fall apart or kill me maintaining it. It doesn't make sense to blow $50k on an M, 5 or A6 series for the bigger size, with the kind of mileage I drive, so the best answer was the TL. It may not be the prettiest of the bunch, but it does stand out.
So for me 4G>S4>G37>335xi
Embrace the ugliness!
#142
how is it illogical to want a car, or any object, to be better looking rather than ugly?
would you purchase an ugly house? or go out with an ugly girl?
no, because the reality is, people like things that are attractive. if you have the means to get it, and the features of the car, or personality in the girls case, fit what you are looing for and are attractive, perfect fit.
dont get what you are saying at all. your point sounds to me like, "if you dont like the 4G then you obviously don't get it and understand the nuances of the automobile"
that, to me, is illogical
would you purchase an ugly house? or go out with an ugly girl?
no, because the reality is, people like things that are attractive. if you have the means to get it, and the features of the car, or personality in the girls case, fit what you are looing for and are attractive, perfect fit.
dont get what you are saying at all. your point sounds to me like, "if you dont like the 4G then you obviously don't get it and understand the nuances of the automobile"
that, to me, is illogical
Maybe some of us can form opinions of our own and aren't so biased to the point that we can't admit any fault even with cars that we like. How pointless would it be to have discussions or debates without opinion? Ooh, the wheelbase of car A is shorter than car B and thus lends to more nimbler handling and .... Not to mention how annoying it is when someone won't concede at all with a matter of opinion... *cough*
Funny how you claim its us here that are knuckleheads and ballbreakers when it was a certain someone who strolled in here, and started claiming this and that, and then needed to start a topic in the 4G asking for HELP in Car Talk? What's wrong with having a difference of opinion?
https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-2009-2014-123/so-im-abandoned-769902/
All (unoffensive) opinions are welcome here, unlike in 4G when criticizing how a car looks will get a topic locked No one cares if you don't like the atmosphere of Car Talk.... go ahead and stay in 4G and post a bunch of pics of the same car model over and over, with a different mod every week. Make a new topic about a new feature you found in your car. I'm sure its much more interesting than any discussions that could possibly go on around Car Talk. I was in the 2G CL/TL forums back even before I registered.... no offense to anyone but it gets boring after a while.
Oh, and thanks for adding absolutely NOTHING to this topic. If you guys even wondered why everyone groans and sighs with frustration every time a topic from the 3G or 4G forum gets moved over here, well now you know.
Funny how you claim its us here that are knuckleheads and ballbreakers when it was a certain someone who strolled in here, and started claiming this and that, and then needed to start a topic in the 4G asking for HELP in Car Talk? What's wrong with having a difference of opinion?
https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-2009-2014-123/so-im-abandoned-769902/
All (unoffensive) opinions are welcome here, unlike in 4G when criticizing how a car looks will get a topic locked No one cares if you don't like the atmosphere of Car Talk.... go ahead and stay in 4G and post a bunch of pics of the same car model over and over, with a different mod every week. Make a new topic about a new feature you found in your car. I'm sure its much more interesting than any discussions that could possibly go on around Car Talk. I was in the 2G CL/TL forums back even before I registered.... no offense to anyone but it gets boring after a while.
Oh, and thanks for adding absolutely NOTHING to this topic. If you guys even wondered why everyone groans and sighs with frustration every time a topic from the 3G or 4G forum gets moved over here, well now you know.
Although boring in your opinion, an objective discussion usually doesn't result to this extent of offense opinions, name calling and pointing fingers, unless it's brought here to Car Talk. Really, what is there more to talk about with subjectivity in mind? Who likes it/what, who doesn't, who agrees and who disagrees. Truth is you need both but everyone can be more aware to leave the offensive stuff or wording aside, unless they are trying to start the issue. There was a normal somewhat enlightening discussion taking place mostly about the review and a few owners and former owners of the actual cars in the comparo added some further comments and perspectives of the 3 series, the G and not just the TL.
It really wasn't until someone decided to say who cares about the TL because it's ugly is when the everyone lost the thread. I have a fairly negative opinion of the 3 series looks but you don't see me posting that all over this thread because it looks decent enough and is a great car for it's purpose. It doesn't keep me from discussing everything and anything else about the vehicle. Opinions do nothing more than breed conflict because of differences. Logical differences can be reasoned, emotional ones usually cannot. You say opinions are welcome here as long as they are not offensive but think criticizing the 4G in the 4G threads is not offensive to any degree? Likewise people here don’t seem so unsupportive of an offensive opinion when they all agree. I actually think that’s ok and for the most part Car Talk is the place for that kind of thing but you can’t expect 4G members or anyone else to not stick up for themselves.
Doesn't really bother me that you find I have contributed nothing to this thread as I already know I have made more relevant discussion, comments and sense than most ever do here and I am not trying to be offensive. Everyone is capable of forming their own opinions and can choose not to be biased but I hope you are not suggesting that of the 4G community because that is obviously wrong. Look right here and see just how much bashing the 4G TL takes and tell me again how the 4G guys are generally biased and can't form their own opinion. If that was the case we probably wouldn't own one. While maybe defensive at times and based on the events that have take place here, rightfully so, but most are far from biased.
It's obvious the majority of 4G members and Car Talk members have different tastes in discussion and aside from the occasional thread we know this and form our boarders but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to be civil and conscience of each other when we do share the same discussion.
#143
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Zzzzzz...OMG how long did it take you to type that?
LOL I love this crap.
A Ford Taurus will never be in a comparison test with these four cars, or cars similar to these four for the very reason that it's a Ford.
The SHO will probably have the same fate as the VW Phaeton - who's gonna pay $44k for a Ford when you can get a TL, 335, A4 or G37?
335xi >> >>>>>>>>>>>> 2010 Mazdaspeed3 Black Mica for me.
LOL I love this crap.
A Ford Taurus will never be in a comparison test with these four cars, or cars similar to these four for the very reason that it's a Ford.
The SHO will probably have the same fate as the VW Phaeton - who's gonna pay $44k for a Ford when you can get a TL, 335, A4 or G37?
335xi >> >>>>>>>>>>>> 2010 Mazdaspeed3 Black Mica for me.
#144
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Well I think the 4G is nice looking and think the G37 is ugly and thought the interior was ugly. So, to each his own. I test drove the 3G and thought it was out dated looking. My sister has a bmw 3 series xi and its way to small inside for me and rides like a wheelbarrel. The audi is priced way to high. So I bought the 4G, which I'm enjoying and wont look back .
Last edited by pdd00; 03-30-2010 at 06:44 PM.
#145
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
how about ?
#149
Moderator
Chapter Leader (South Florida Region)
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I don't see a problem but dang...it seems like there are so many threads on here that end the same way. I'd honsestly love to have any of the 4 cars on the list. Just can't afford any of them new so I'll have to be patient like I was to get my 3G.
#151
Senior Moderator
iTrader: (1)
What is it with you guys? Everyone is welcome here. Knock it off.
#152
Punk Rocker
I still wonder why the S4 gets a pass on its ridiculous price. Sure you could possibly buy a stripped one for $53k or so (if you could even find one), but then would it have beaten the others with no features? Sure its a great car, but Audi's pricing structure boggles my mind. The price-equivalent Audi to the G and TL is the 2.0t A4 which would just be annihilated by either car. The price-equivalent cars to the S4 are the M3 and C63 AMG which would, again, annihilate the Audi.
In other words, the proper comparison for this article would have been TL/G37/335i/A4. My personal results would then be:
335i>G37>TL>A4 (this is assuming the TL has the full RJ treatment of course)....
In other words, the proper comparison for this article would have been TL/G37/335i/A4. My personal results would then be:
335i>G37>TL>A4 (this is assuming the TL has the full RJ treatment of course)....
#153
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I still wonder why the S4 gets a pass on its ridiculous price. Sure you could possibly buy a stripped one for $53k or so (if you could even find one), but then would it have beaten the others with no features? Sure its a great car, but Audi's pricing structure boggles my mind. The price-equivalent Audi to the G and TL is the 2.0t A4 which would just be annihilated by either car. The price-equivalent cars to the S4 are the M3 and C63 AMG which would, again, annihilate the Audi.
In other words, the proper comparison for this article would have been TL/G37/335i/A4. My personal results would then be:
335i>G37>TL>A4 (this is assuming the TL has the full RJ treatment of course)....
In other words, the proper comparison for this article would have been TL/G37/335i/A4. My personal results would then be:
335i>G37>TL>A4 (this is assuming the TL has the full RJ treatment of course)....
#154
One on the right for me
I still wonder why the S4 gets a pass on its ridiculous price. Sure you could possibly buy a stripped one for $53k or so (if you could even find one), but then would it have beaten the others with no features? Sure its a great car, but Audi's pricing structure boggles my mind. The price-equivalent Audi to the G and TL is the 2.0t A4 which would just be annihilated by either car. The price-equivalent cars to the S4 are the M3 and C63 AMG which would, again, annihilate the Audi.
In other words, the proper comparison for this article would have been TL/G37/335i/A4. My personal results would then be:
335i>G37>TL>A4 (this is assuming the TL has the full RJ treatment of course)....
In other words, the proper comparison for this article would have been TL/G37/335i/A4. My personal results would then be:
335i>G37>TL>A4 (this is assuming the TL has the full RJ treatment of course)....
#155
2010 TL AWD 6MT: New King
#156
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
I still wonder why the S4 gets a pass on its ridiculous price. Sure you could possibly buy a stripped one for $53k or so (if you could even find one), but then would it have beaten the others with no features? Sure its a great car, but Audi's pricing structure boggles my mind. The price-equivalent Audi to the G and TL is the 2.0t A4 which would just be annihilated by either car. The price-equivalent cars to the S4 are the M3 and C63 AMG which would, again, annihilate the Audi.
In other words, the proper comparison for this article would have been TL/G37/335i/A4. My personal results would then be:
335i>G37>TL>A4 (this is assuming the TL has the full RJ treatment of course)....
In other words, the proper comparison for this article would have been TL/G37/335i/A4. My personal results would then be:
335i>G37>TL>A4 (this is assuming the TL has the full RJ treatment of course)....
And S4 Premium Plus with Manual Transmission's starting price starts at $46K. And it comes with shitload of options. The only key performance options it need to have are rear differential (like $1K) and Drive Select ($4K).
And dude, have you even been to Audi dealership? This downtown LA Audi had like 4-5 S4 that were priced around $50K, some of them were under $50K. Don't bash something, if you don't even know what you are talking about.
This. Yes. I've been saying it and the article's introductory paragraphs explain this.
#157
One on the right for me
That was all. Relax. God damn.
#158
One on the right for me
I didn't mean to imply that I was the first one to state that. The article wasn't exactly clear as to what type of comparison they were running and I can't believe R&T would vary that much with prices of sedans if they were doing something else.
#159
2010 TL AWD 6MT: New King
For me:
It was a matter of practicality meets performance. I have to entertain customers on a regular basis, so I needed more room than can be found in the S4, the 335 or the G. I also drive 40,000 miles per year so I need a car that won't fall apart or kill me maintaining it. It doesn't make sense to blow $50k on an M, 5 or A6 series for the bigger size, with the kind of mileage I drive, so the best answer was the TL. It may not be the prettiest of the bunch, but it does stand out.
So for me 4G>S4>G37>335xi
Embrace the ugliness!
It was a matter of practicality meets performance. I have to entertain customers on a regular basis, so I needed more room than can be found in the S4, the 335 or the G. I also drive 40,000 miles per year so I need a car that won't fall apart or kill me maintaining it. It doesn't make sense to blow $50k on an M, 5 or A6 series for the bigger size, with the kind of mileage I drive, so the best answer was the TL. It may not be the prettiest of the bunch, but it does stand out.
So for me 4G>S4>G37>335xi
Embrace the ugliness!
IF I were single, IF I were a smaller frame person, IF I did not care about having kids/wife comfortable in the back seat, IF I only cared about exterior styling, IF I only cared about the TINIEST driving dynamics, IF I didn't mind spending wasting money to maintain a car, and IF I didn't care about a car owning me (instead of me owning the car) ... I could have bought (and ranked tops) the S4 or 335xi.
But since I am married, have a wife and a small child with possibly more on the way, wanted a large and spacious cabin, value my time in the office, value my wife and kid's comfort, value reliability, didn't want to worry about a car nickle and dime-ing me to death, and didn't want to deal with nit picky things breaking down so I couldn't make it to the office... The 4G TL 6MT won easily.
Ever have a car seat and a parent in the back seat at the same time?
Ever have to close the office and reschedule patients because of car troubles?
There are other things in life that come into play.
Not all of us view these cars as a snap shot in life.
In any case, all of the aforementioned cars are fine sports sedans the average Joe would kill to own.
Last edited by docboy; 03-31-2010 at 12:40 AM.