DrewSRX

R&T Comparison - S4 vs. 335i vs. G37S vs. TL-SH AWD

http://www.roadandtrack.com/index.ph...door-firepower

Result:

1st - 2010 Audi S4
2nd - 2010 BMW 335i
3rd - 2010 Infiniti G37S
4th - 2010 Acura TL SH-AWD

As-Tested Prices:

2010 Infiniti G37S - $40,085
2010 Acura TL SH-AWD - $44,195
2010 BMW 335i -$47,625
2010 Audi S4 - $58,674

subinf

Yay S4

Will Y.

$28K price difference from lowest to highest price in the comparo, and the S4 is $11K more than #2??
The S4 better have won.

Never Summer

So now it's acceptable to have a test where one car is $10,000 more than any other car? If it were between exotic super cars, that would be one thing, but I feel like most people looking at these cars wouldn't consider the S4 as a valid alternative.

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

I wish I could have an S4...

v6cord2k5

iTrader: (1)

Where's the Ford F-150?

/redtext

Costco

Finally, a post by DrewSRX where Infiniti isn't winning something!

Yeah, R&T's credibility just farther down the shitter than wherever it was before. If you're going to make a comparo, at least make it somewhat close. I mean, it's literally like comparing a Honda Fit with a Mustang GT, just by the price gap. You can't just compare the S4 to the 335i/M3 anymore, that might have worked last gen but now it's almost like they slot in between each other price-wise.

Impressive how the SH-AWD bested the track time of the 335i and the G37S, if not by much. and I learned that the S4 is also using a 4-lobe blower, which was a first on the ZR1 (at least on production cars AFAIK)

I saw a bunch of A4s and an S4 on my way to, in, and leaving LA though. love em, but that price is nuts. $11k more than a 335i!!

mmafighta

I'd still probably get the Bimmer.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I still remember how back in September 2008, the TL SH-AWD 6MT in that Honda event was faster than every other car there. Some people thought it was a setup because it was a Honda event. Others thought the result was meaningless because the 6MT model was even going to be available until one year later. Fast forward to now, it seems like the TL is indeed that fast around a track, very impressive considering it's the slowest in a straight line, while others have already improved (ie. G went from 306hp to 328hp).

With that said, I'm surprised that R&T didn't include the track time in the performance category in the results chart.

And the price gap...wow....$18k difference between the cheapest and most expensive cars......

F23A4

2010 Audi S4 - $58,674

Even a 335i convertible with M-Sport package and Navi doesn't break the $58k barrier. Audi is pretty ballsy with their pricing.

EDIT: And I love how the G37S eventually catches up to the 335i. VQ37HR FTW.

'01White3.2CL

yeah Audi's have gigantic prices! its probably due to them trying extremely hard now. they have a rough past and are finally up to par with major luxury players. you can see it cost them to catch up because the prices are ridiculous...so much for me buying a used S5/A5 in a couple years, that price will always be too high.

dom

Sounds like the TL is missing the very 2 things most people on this board have been complaining about. Good styling and a new, more powerful engine. Shocking.

charliemike

You can get a $45k S4 but that as-tested one was probably a S4 Prestige with every possible option.

To me, the price differential only matters because of Drive Select which costs a ton and might have influenced the outcome.

But R&T is at the mercy of whatever car Audi sends them and they got a loaded S4. And I don't blame Audi for that. They want to win.

Will Y.

Ooops... couldn't subtract yesterday.
$18K difference.

Crazy Bimmer

Impressive track times for the TL. But doesnt seem as if they enjoyed themselves behind the wheel of it. Pity.

Never Summer

I hear next month they're going to be comparing the A8, 760Li, S600, and the Pagani Zonda. Word on the street is that the Zonda wins...

charliemike

I see what you did there ...

Silly comparison. Should have made the fourth car the new Bugatti Sedan

Black Tire

Of course the S4 will win. Look at that motor! Not a fair compro.

dom

Or, consider a lesser equipped S4 and the comparison is in fact valid.

Taking the S4 out of the equation the TL still failed to beat two cars with similar pricing.

charliemike

I can't believe the TL-SH is $44k now ... Jeezus fark.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

The tested vehicle was super fully loaded with all the high tech options.

The new S4 can be had for around $48K-50K without some high tech options. They do sound pretty overpriced, but it really isn't once you get in to drive one. The new A4/S4s really are fantastic vehicles.

Yeah, I would LOVE to get the new S4....

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

I loved my 3G TL mainly because of its great value for the money, but now not so much.

TS_eXpeed

I'd probably give Audi the top spot too, just cause I'm a sucker for them.

But their prices are outrageous. Even to BMW standards when you compare fairly similarly equipped cars.

legend74

Mostly in the subjective areas. Certainly not on the track !!

SSFTSX

u have to look at tested weight.
S4 at 4200lbs is the heaviest in category. at 0-120mph category. performance is right at M3 level with much more refinement and tech pack. i wonder what will be 7 DSG performance. it is well worth more than $14k than TL.
it got the most points for the ride. (0.96g on such heavy and long wheel base is nothing short of stunning).

Costco

Yes, but lets have a show of hands. Who would take a 4G SH-AWD ($44k) over a 335i ($47k)?

I still agree that R&T's subjective rankings are retarded.... but that doesn't change what my opinion of the 4 cars is.

legend74

Me !! A fully loaded TL beats a base 335i for me any day of the week.

knight rider

iTrader: (1)

Congrats to Audi (I love Audi), booo to R&T. Before reading any of the comments here I thought, S4! Really! You don't say! Bring in the M3, C63 and CTS-V and ditch the G and the TL.

tsxgoogs

Give me an base m3 sedan mt with cloth interior over that fully loaded s4 any day!

SSFTSX

M3 has high reviving engine .
in C&D test S4 went in 3&4 gear on mountanous curves while 335 needed shift to 1&2. 335 has as much low end torque as M3.
335 cannot be compared to S4. and 335 always lose to S4 in all magazine tests.

draph

The R&T guys are definitely subjective (which is OK), but they also don't take into account real life practicality when doing their comparisons.

I test drove G37 and TL back to back several times. The TL is geared better (taller final drive) and has a flatter torque curve than the G37. I could not feel the extra 23 hp of the G37 until well above 5000 rpm. Around town, the TL simply feels more tractable than a G37 in gears 1 thru 4 at all rpms. Go over to the C&D site and take a look at top gear 30-50 and 50-70 between the last G37 6MT and TL SH-AWD 6MT they tested, and you'll see the TL is significantly faster.

Take a look at G37 discussion boards and look at all the complaining about gas mileage. To enjoy the power, you have to keep that engine on the boil.

The 335 is almost perfect except for the open rear differential, and if you don't mind your 2 year old constantly kicking the back of the front seats, and your OK spending the money to constantly replace with a new one every 3 years to avoid reliability and high cost of maintenance when the 4-year/50K free maintenance runs out.

If I wanted to spend as much money as required to buy a well-featured S4, I'd probably buy a new Accord and a used S2000.

BTW, I've put my money where my mouth is. I just purchased a TL SH-AWD 6MT to replace my leased 2007 335i. I will miss that car, but not its reliability issues, open diff, and cramped space. I'm hoping I get used to the video game feel of the steering. I don't have any complaint about the feel of the brakes or clutch; and the shifter is superior to the 335's. Finally, when it comes to "real" price, the apparent ugly discount on the TL put my best price within $150 of the best price I could get offered on a similarly equipped rwd G37 S 6MT.

docboy

B8 S4's are nice. But not that nice to warrant paying $14k more to own than the TL. Considering I have a kid in the back who is always kicking and moving her legs, and also the need for a reliable daily driver. Being unable to go to the office is forever lost revenue. Factor in maintenance costs, historical reliability, and residual value, BMW and Audi looses their appeal very fast, even after their attractive exteriors are accounted for. I'll put that $14k in to my kid's college fund.

I would take the S4 (or 335i) as a rental car for a getaway or a track car. But the S4 does not make my list as a daily driver to own. Practicality has the TL as my vote getter, and my wallet.

subinf

I actually think Audi calmed down a bit with its pricing compared to what they wanted for the cars in the late 90s. Maybe the prices are the same but they come with more shit? I really actually don't know.

SpiderX1016

Who would pay that much more for the S4?

I love VAG but $10k-20k more than those other cars...

007Acura

a 6mt s4 prestige (loaded w/o driver select & rear diff) is the same price as a comparable equipped 335i which needs m-sport,premium,Nav,Logic7 sound,sat,CA, and heated seats. Both come out to an almost near exact $53,000

dom

Good post and you make a valid argument. Which for me just further makes that fact that the TL is one ugly car all the more frustrating. I simply couldn't own a car that looks like that. Despite all the points you've brought up.

But if one can live with the styling, its certainly is a pretty good buy.


And can someone explain why an open rear diff is such a negative?

Never Summer

Because when you're taking your 4000lb pig of a TL to the racetrack you need a locking differential, obviously.








Or maybe you don't unless you're driving a car that is specifically performance oriented.

dom

winstrolvtec

Being that most of these cars are well equipped and there is still a large price gap, R&T could have easily slotted the A4 in the there just the same. Comparing the S4 to the BMW 335 is fine, with Xdrive and the same level of equipment it's about $3k apart, whereas, the G is fully loaded at $40k ($44 w/ AWD) and the TL SH done at $43k ($44k w/ HPT). Likewise, the 6MT A4 quattro prestige similarly optioned out is $43k ($44.7K w/ 19 in sport).

And in defense of the TL and not because I drive one it truthfully is the largest sedan in the comparo, where the rest are compacts and smaller mid sized sedans. The TL has the size, space and dimensions of all those other brands larger mid level sedans and is the only one that is technically not Acura's entry level sedan. So naturally it's not going to be as pure feeling of a sports sedan. It has to offer broader appeal. Instead, it has most of the capabilities but with a softer perhaps more luxury oriented feel as opposed to sporty and in a more practical approach.

charliemike

^^

The TL is bigger than the S4 or just heavier?

And R&T should have had a Taurus SHO there. Loaded that's $42-44k too.