R&T Comparison - S4 vs. 335i vs. G37S vs. TL-SH AWD
#241
Banned
#242
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
A few notes.
- Only one in four editors chose the S4 as his choice. Despite its competence, there is not much love for the S4.
- The three others chose a RWD car, two opted for the 335i, the easiest car to love.
- At this range of price (going 50K$), give me a F10 2011 535i (50475$ including destination charges) instead . One must be crazy to buy a 4-cyl. A4/A5 Audi at 45K$+.-Finally after two decades and multiple aggressive challenges, Germans still >>> Japaneses despite better technology.
- Only one in four editors chose the S4 as his choice. Despite its competence, there is not much love for the S4.
- The three others chose a RWD car, two opted for the 335i, the easiest car to love.
- At this range of price (going 50K$), give me a F10 2011 535i (50475$ including destination charges) instead . One must be crazy to buy a 4-cyl. A4/A5 Audi at 45K$+.-Finally after two decades and multiple aggressive challenges, Germans still >>> Japaneses despite better technology.
not this crap again
have you ever driven B8 A4 2.0T? it doesn't feel like 4 cyl at all. it has power of 6 cyl with endless potential and gets gas mileage of 4 cyl.
#243
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
#244
Banned
have you ever driven B8 A4 2.0T? it doesn't feel like 4 cyl at all.
Well you didn't get it.
#245
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
A few notes.
- Only one in four editors chose the S4 as his choice. Despite its competence, there is not much love for the S4.
- The three others chose a RWD car, two opted for the 335i, the easiest car to love.
- At this range of price (going 50K$), give me a F10 2011 535i (50475$ including destination charges) instead . One must be crazy to buy a 4-cyl. A4/A5 Audi at 45K$+.
-Finally after two decades and multiple aggressive challenges, Germans still >>> Japaneses despite better technology.
- Only one in four editors chose the S4 as his choice. Despite its competence, there is not much love for the S4.
- The three others chose a RWD car, two opted for the 335i, the easiest car to love.
- At this range of price (going 50K$), give me a F10 2011 535i (50475$ including destination charges) instead . One must be crazy to buy a 4-cyl. A4/A5 Audi at 45K$+.
-Finally after two decades and multiple aggressive challenges, Germans still >>> Japaneses despite better technology.
its just one stupid magazine comparo alright? get over it. who cares really.
this comparo doesn't mean that S4 is better your 335 alright?
and your last statement is just
#246
I personally did pay premium for my S4, but I love every second of driving it. I was considering a new 6spd SH-AWD TL that I would have gotten below invoice, but I just couldn't get myself to make the right financial decision. So far, I have no regrets whatsoever. I got the Audi Drive Select, and I feel that I paid for 4 different cars in one. I love it. I can't stop smiling whenever I'm behind the wheel.
I never considered the 335, just because I see a bunch of them out on the road and I didn't want to be part of that crowd. I'm sure it's a superb car, it's just not my cup of tea.
Bottom line, yes, I could have gotten another car in the comparison for a cheaper, but it definitely wouldn't have been the same as driving the S4. I'm happy with my car. No issues so far (knock on wood).
I never considered the 335, just because I see a bunch of them out on the road and I didn't want to be part of that crowd. I'm sure it's a superb car, it's just not my cup of tea.
Bottom line, yes, I could have gotten another car in the comparison for a cheaper, but it definitely wouldn't have been the same as driving the S4. I'm happy with my car. No issues so far (knock on wood).
#248
#249
Banned
Ah! Txs for proving my point. Exactly because jerks like you have a disdain for it and it is not the subject here... so why bother. It could have been a 330i too. If you have a problem, I *don't.*
#250
Who cares. Anyone who says x brand > * in every single post is not to be taken seriously, let alone relied upon to input worthwhile information. Every single one of his posts is mostly opinion and matter of personal taste, yet he says it matter of factly. Sounds a lot like msl82 and Manual Transmission, except with BMW.
#251
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
I think it's a good idea not to make a thread with these magazine comparos.
#252
Back From The dead
Can't we all embrace the ugliness...ahh
#253
Senior Moderator
Magazine comparos are fair game for discussion, particularly in a Car Talk forum. But we just need to keep them perspective. Honestly, there's no inferior car within this bunch. Rather, varying degrees of good cars and personal preferences.
#254
Senior Moderator
I personally did pay premium for my S4, but I love every second of driving it. I was considering a new 6spd SH-AWD TL that I would have gotten below invoice, but I just couldn't get myself to make the right financial decision. So far, I have no regrets whatsoever. I got the Audi Drive Select, and I feel that I paid for 4 different cars in one. I love it. I can't stop smiling whenever I'm behind the wheel.
I never considered the 335, just because I see a bunch of them out on the road and I didn't want to be part of that crowd. I'm sure it's a superb car, it's just not my cup of tea.
Bottom line, yes, I could have gotten another car in the comparison for a cheaper, but it definitely wouldn't have been the same as driving the S4. I'm happy with my car. No issues so far (knock on wood).
I never considered the 335, just because I see a bunch of them out on the road and I didn't want to be part of that crowd. I'm sure it's a superb car, it's just not my cup of tea.
Bottom line, yes, I could have gotten another car in the comparison for a cheaper, but it definitely wouldn't have been the same as driving the S4. I'm happy with my car. No issues so far (knock on wood).
#255
Drifting
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Stockton, California
Age: 33
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I completely agree with that. Having said that, I still find the B7 A4 much more attractive than the B8, I liked the back end of the car 10x better. One of these days I'll have my B7 A4 in Brilliant Red...
#256
Someday, an RS6 Avant+
Correct
Legend (RL)
Inspire (same as the USDM Accord, but starting at $35K, V6 only)
Accord (TSX), also Euro R trim
Civic (also in R trim w/Mugen accessories)
Insight
FTR, you can not buy a TL here. It does not exist.
#257
Either way, I think the car is beautiful (in my biased opinion of course). I love the LED strip in the headlights. Ok, enough rambling.
For what it's worth, I think that the Acura's navi/audio system comes very close to Audi quality, and actually has some features that the Audi MMI system lacks. One thing, for example, is that although my car has bluetooth pairing for my phone, it doesn't have the ability to play music through a2dp which I would use to stream pandora. Audi also requires you to buy different adapters for each audio medium (i.e. ipod adapter, 3.5 mm jack, usb) where Acura's system already comes with all of those.
One thing about BMW that I've noticed is that their interiors need to be updated pretty badly. It seems like they've had the same interior styling for a while.
#258
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
^ man where are the pictures???
maybe get your new car thread going? any plan on mods?
maybe get your new car thread going? any plan on mods?
#259
Okay, in the first place there were some independently minded people at the tests. It was a very risky thing to do to invite people like, oh, let's say me, maybe, or people like, hmmm.... maybe Jeff Palmer to events like this. You do not know what people are going to do or say. There are many events that have been so blatantly, ridiculously biased that people have refused to report the event, or have come away reporting negatively.
I could see your point about this being risky if they didnt know the outcome before hand but they obviously had done extensive testing before hand on different tracks to make sure that wouldnt happen. I have been to marketing events like this before when I was in the automotive industry and some people find it insulting when a manufacture purposely sets up a test so that its product cant fail then brings in credible journalists to try and make the test look credible. Thankfully these same journalists like R&T conducted this similar test independently and brought a more true and less bias result.
:-) I think that most of us will understand your point that if it's only the driving experience that you are after, you will not necessarily concern yourself with a lack of equipment on the S4 + the vectoring AWD.
This is a very engaging car to drive.
But I don't think I would want it for a regular, daily commuter. Once you get used to a NAV that talks back to you, once you get used to being able to just talk to your car to do most things, you're just not going back to the Plain Jane.
But...I understand your point and take it well.
This is a very engaging car to drive.
But I don't think I would want it for a regular, daily commuter. Once you get used to a NAV that talks back to you, once you get used to being able to just talk to your car to do most things, you're just not going back to the Plain Jane.
But...I understand your point and take it well.
Many people here are looking at things like does each car have power windows, Nav, Xenon headlights, dual zone climate control, etc etc etc (i could go on for pages). What they arent looking at is that the S4 offers all those things but more to each item...ie: power windows but auto up/dn on ALL windows, better Nav with 3D and more memory, Xenon headlights but with auto leveling, tri-zone climate control rather than dual...and on and on. Even the S4 itself has more appearance differences than the others with different seats, front/rear bumpers, grill, aluminum mirrors, door sills, badging etc.
Some here want to make you think that all these things are only worth about $1k difference to the price of the car but any common sense can see that just the small sample of items i listed exceeds that.....weather or not someone wants to believe those features are worth that is a totally different debate, but the bottom line is that there are more little features so in the end you will logically end up paying more.
#260
Dyno results:
The car dyno'd higher than all but one of the RS4's they've dyno'd over there. I was pretty happy. I tested out new downpipes for them and it bumped the max awhp to 330 and awtq to 319.
As far as mods, so far I've only done exterior aesthetic mods (LED license plate lights, HOEN yellow fogs, Black Optik grill). I'm waiting on APR or A.W.E. to release a tune for the car. I will be placing an order for Stasis lowering springs and sway bar pretty soon. I'll probably go with an exhaust eventually as well. There're so many things I wanna do to the car, just need to find the time and the money.
/end thread hijack
#261
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
.......
you need to make a new thread right now.
you need to make a new thread right now.
#262
Punk Rocker
Your S4 is badass for sure!!! Does the steering feel artificial in any way. When I drove the S5 that was my main complaint (that and the wierd clutch feel). Otherwise it was the sweetest car I have ever driven....
#263
About the steering...I got the Audi Drive Select option which includes the new rear sport diff (definitely a must). What that option does is allows you to select between Comfort, Auto, Dynamic, or Individual modes. Each mode affects the throttle response, steering, suspension, and sport diff. Comfort is just what it says, comfortable. The steering, the ride, everything mentioned, is very soft. Auto changes the settings according to how you're driving the car. Dynamic sets everything to a more sporty setting; stiffer suspension, more sensitive accel pedal, less granny-ing on the sport diff, and the steering gets pretty tight and responsive. I have mine set to individual mode, where you can customize each setting individually. For example, I have mine set to:
Engine: Dynamic
Suspension: Auto
Steering: Dynamic
Sprt Diff: Auto
so I feel that the steering is just perfect. For me at least. I'm not sure if the S5 you drove had that feature, but it definitely makes a huge difference.
#264
I could see your point about this being risky if they didnt know the outcome before hand but they obviously had done extensive testing before hand on different tracks to make sure that wouldnt happen. I have been to marketing events like this before when I was in the automotive industry and some people find it insulting when a manufacture purposely sets up a test so that its product cant fail then brings in credible journalists to try and make the test look credible. Thankfully these same journalists like R&T conducted this similar test independently and brought a more true and less bias result.
There are other things to consider for all the vehicles as well like if they should have all been AWD and the track itself and how it could affect each car individually as well as the driver or drivers themselves. There is no mention of how the track testing was conducted and it's funny to me that you think a magazine, whose other job is to sell add space, can't be biased at all.
Some here want to make you think that all these things are only worth about $1k difference to the price of the car but any common sense can see that just the small sample of items i listed exceeds that.....weather or not someone wants to believe those features are worth that is a totally different debate, but the bottom line is that there are more little features so in the end you will logically end up paying more.
Many people here are looking at things like does each car have power windows, Nav, Xenon headlights, dual zone climate control, etc etc etc (i could go on for pages). What they arent looking at is that the S4 offers all those things but more to each item...ie: power windows but auto up/dn on ALL windows, better Nav with 3D and more memory, Xenon headlights but with auto leveling, tri-zone climate control rather than dual...and on and on. Even the S4 itself has more appearance differences than the others with different seats, front/rear bumpers, grill, aluminum mirrors, door sills, badging etc.
Many people here are looking at things like does each car have power windows, Nav, Xenon headlights, dual zone climate control, etc etc etc (i could go on for pages). What they arent looking at is that the S4 offers all those things but more to each item...ie: power windows but auto up/dn on ALL windows, better Nav with 3D and more memory, Xenon headlights but with auto leveling, tri-zone climate control rather than dual...and on and on. Even the S4 itself has more appearance differences than the others with different seats, front/rear bumpers, grill, aluminum mirrors, door sills, badging etc.
These things you mention exist on all levels within all cars. You also get a larger car with more passenger and cargo volume with a better resale and reliability in either of the Japanese products in the review which commands a premium as well but is cheaper yet no one brought that up because it's on the subjective side of things as well and it has nothing to do with an evenly equipped and priced vehicle comparison, in an objective sense.
The truth is you will never see a real equally equipped comparo because it's not possible. There are too many other things to consider. IMO you should at least compare as best, and as best equipped, as possible first and then make individually based compensations for things like features that you may feel are superior, what is a larger or smaller vehicle, faster, level of refinement, maintenance costs, reliability, resale, safety, crash testing, etc, etc.
I can understand your point around the S4, there is indeed extra money that goes into certain things within the car which is up to the consumer to decide if it's worth and the same thing can be said of the BMW but really all of these cars when you consider all aspects of a vehicle and not just material content. Still, an evenly matched comparison of the four cars in the R&T review with near identical pricing and best matched features and equipment levels as priorities, does not include the S4 or 335, only the 328xi and A4.
That is the sole point around my discussions and it's hard to disagree with. I am not trying to take anything away from any of the cars, I do think the S4 is a great car and I think it is the car I would most likely want to "drive" over the rest (if you know what I mean) but it is not the car I want to own for various reasons, many of which are just my own.
Last edited by winstrolvtec; 04-02-2010 at 09:47 PM.
#265
Senior Moderator
I love teh B8. I need to see if i fit in it. Im afraid at 6'5" i wont come close.
#266
Burning Brakes
U can say that about A LOT of cars these days. For example, the Altima and Maxima are "japenese" but they are designed, built and sold exclusively in North America
#267
Burning Brakes
#268
Back From The dead
#270
Back From The dead
Embrace the ugliness
#271
Senior Moderator
#272
Back From The dead
I didn't say more of what. How can you correct that?
#274
Senior Moderator
#275
If Acura is smarter they could built 305 bhp 6MT sport suspension SH-AWD TSX.
i am pretty sure it will be pretty close to S4 in handling, slolam and alteast matches G37/335 in straight line performance. TSX has superb aerodynamic efficiency at higher speed.
TL is simply too big for this comparision and is 3 seconds slower on 0-120mph timing. so in one performance parameter it came 4th and that is the place it got in ranking chart. no matter how much closer it was in pulling gs to S4 or excellent interior, comfort compared to 335/G37.
i am pretty sure it will be pretty close to S4 in handling, slolam and alteast matches G37/335 in straight line performance. TSX has superb aerodynamic efficiency at higher speed.
TL is simply too big for this comparision and is 3 seconds slower on 0-120mph timing. so in one performance parameter it came 4th and that is the place it got in ranking chart. no matter how much closer it was in pulling gs to S4 or excellent interior, comfort compared to 335/G37.
#276
^Looking at the transitioning trend in the sedan lineup it appears that Acura is working in that direction. It's been said that the current TSX has holes in it's subframe to support AWD or SH-AWD. So at some point this is in Acura's plan whether we see it at a late MMC or more likely the next gen. They are currently expanding the TSX model variants and I am sure we can expect a coupe somewhere in there later. They also have a sub entry model in the works and a rumored full sized sedan flagship. Acura has a good plan and direction it's just going to take a little more time to get there.
#279
They can built car that is 99% closer to S4 at 70% price with better long term reliablity and lower maintainance. Sh-AWD pwered TSX should get closer to 0.96g. and sub 5 sec time for 0-60 from 3.7L. 6MT.
surpassing BMW 335/G37 based on raw numbers. ZDX/MDX/RL/TL are too big for sport applications
they can certainly lower the car by half an inch to an inch to make it equal to BMW coupe height.
.
Honda offers push button start in Euro Civic. It is not big deal. even Euro Accord Active cruise control that beeps when cars pass on side. kind like blind spot monitoring.
they can certainly improve on it by providing 360 degree radar coverage so even closing in from behind so it can accelerate from it. it is great when u have these systems so u can use other functions on dashboard.
surpassing BMW 335/G37 based on raw numbers. ZDX/MDX/RL/TL are too big for sport applications
they can certainly lower the car by half an inch to an inch to make it equal to BMW coupe height.
.
Honda offers push button start in Euro Civic. It is not big deal. even Euro Accord Active cruise control that beeps when cars pass on side. kind like blind spot monitoring.
they can certainly improve on it by providing 360 degree radar coverage so even closing in from behind so it can accelerate from it. it is great when u have these systems so u can use other functions on dashboard.
#280
Banned
They can built car that is 99% closer to S4 at 70% price with better long term reliablity and lower maintainance. Sh-AWD pwered TSX should get closer to 0.96g. and sub 5 sec time for 0-60 from 3.7L. 6MT.
surpassing BMW 335/G37 based on raw numbers. ZDX/MDX/RL/TL are too big for sport applications
they can certainly lower the car by half an inch to an inch to make it equal to BMW coupe height.
surpassing BMW 335/G37 based on raw numbers. ZDX/MDX/RL/TL are too big for sport applications
they can certainly lower the car by half an inch to an inch to make it equal to BMW coupe height.