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You may have read our previous comparison review between our F80 M3 and W204 C63 AMG shop cars. If you haven’t, please go ahead and read up on it so you can get a basis as to where the F80 stands in regards to the W204. Being an avid F80 M3 enthusiast, I like to share my experience with others on how I think the competition stacks up. Needless to say, the F80 M3 is a great car all around regardless of what situation you find yourself in. I’m currently averaging 20.3 mpg combined fuel consumption and this is a big factor for me as I do a ton of driving. For me an important factor is to achieve more with less. I can keep rambling about the F80 and how great of an all around package it is but the real point of this review is to use the F80 as the benchmark to which the W205 will be compared, so let's get right into it.
After putting a few hundred miles on this platform I can't say that I know the car inside and out as an owner of the car would, however I got a good enough feel for her to draw some of my own conclusions. The dynamic is completely different than the previous generation W204 C63 in a great way. Yes, I miss the Naturally Aspirated 6.2L V8 and who wouldn't?! However the new power-plant is an absolute marvel in its own right. Fortunately, it still crackles and backfires, this time with twin-turbo spooling underneath all of it. The performance tech upgrades include dynamic engine mounts, electronically controlled dampers and an electronic locking differential (standard on S model). These serious upgrades are definitely noticeable during spirited driving and you can feel the systems working together to guide all of that power and weight through the corners in the canyons until the motor takes over on the straights. I truly think that AMG is making steps in the right direction.
Power:
The power debate here is not exactly apples-to-apples, as our F80 is currently JB4 tuned coupled with an IPE cat-back exhaust whereas the C63S is completely stock. Regardless, the winner of the power department became clearly evident to us in a matter of seconds: the C63S is the brute force here. Our F80 in its current format is more or less similar to the W205 in straight line speed (although no pulls were done). However, my passengers in the C63S were blown away by the straight line acceleration from 20-100 mph, stating that they were really pinned back into their seat and felt the 516 lb ft of torque working extremely hard to move the mass. I am hearing that the W205 will have very high modification capabilities as well, achieving figures in the 600-700hp range with just a tune. The slight turbo lag on the F80 is becoming more noticeable to me, whereas the power package from the internally turbocharged V8 of the W205 really punches you back into your seat. Granted, you burn fuel like there is no tomorrow while doing so. Comparing the W204 to the W205 is almost a futile comparison, as the newer motor is from a far more advanced era of tech and sophistication. The advancements of the newer platform really put this car into a league of its own in terms of performance. Mark my words, in a few months we will be seeing extremely power-hungry W205 C63 builds that are fighting for supercar territory. Now, the F80 isn’t slow by any means but we do have our limitations. For me personally, the power of the M3 is more than enough; anything more and I would be finding myself in a lot of trouble.
Chassis:
I don’t believe that the M3 can be surpassed in terms of chassis/handling feel. Our F80 M3 is currently set up with KW 2-way Clubsport Suspension and 265/295 Toyo R888's which makes this comparison once again apples-to-oranges (modded v stock). Provided that I have yet to even come close to tapping the full potential of this set-up, it only makes me wonder as to what a professional driver can do behind the wheel on the circuit compared to stock form. I consider myself to be a decent driver with some track days under my belt, however being able to push the car to limits in higher than stock form is dangerous and not smart to display on the street. Judging this car in its stock form, meaning stock suspension and 255/275 Michelin PSS, is a better control group for this argument. The M3 is very refined and predictable at her limits, constantly being able to push the envelope as you become more comfortable. One of the biggest shortfalls of the C63 must be the weight, however AMG has done a great job hiding it with all the technological features that are working so hard to keep the car true. The C63 does not feel like it weighs 3900 lbs for any moment while driving. The only thing that feels the weight is your wallet, as you need to spec the car out with all of these added performance options in order to reap the benefits of the full experience. Through the corners the car has good to great feel (not as good as the M3 but surprisingly close) and just blows away the feel of the W204 C63. In other words, AMG is finally learning how to make driver's cars as opposed to pure, straight-line muscle cars.
Brakes:
The AMG brakes are the winner here hands down. It baffles me to drive the C63 and then have to get back into the M3. The stock brakes on the M3 to me are the biggest shortfall on the car. I get it, BMW wants you to go and grab their CCB so you don’t have to complain. On the next shop car we opt for the CCB and I am very excited to see the difference between the two. The AMG brakes don’t overheat like the M's. The M3 on the track sees 5-6 hot laps before the brakes are completely on fire. Again, I understand the value to BMW since they offer an $8k option to purchase the proper brakes for the chassis' capabilities. The brakes on the F80 appear to be an improvement over the E9X but I still believe it is lacking the proper feel for this level of performance machine. Granted, most of us have tuned and added more power to the platform than is originally intended. Benz should use this saying: “With great power comes great braking responsibility.”
Styling:
The exterior of the F80 M3 is something to marvel over. The lines are so strikingly different than anything that we are used to. The bulges, hips, hood and the roof add so much character. When you see an F8X approaching in your rear view mirror with its hunkered down stance and beaming headlights, you can' help but double take. The C63 on the other hand has a very tame personality and it is almost hard to notice the difference between the C400 Sport to the untrained eye, or to the trained eye from a distance for that matter! I am bit dissatisfied with the styling of the car to be honest after the muscular, sharp features of the W204 C63. All complaints about the W204 C63 with regards to the rear fenders not being flared should have been taken into consideration with this car. It seems that a 275 rear tire is the most that you can squeeze back there which is a complete fail IMO. Not only is this a styling miscue, but it seriously holds back the modding potential of the platform. I guess AMG is saving the rear stuff for a Black Series version. The M3 definitely has the C63 beat in overall street presence.
The interior of the F80 M3 in my opinion is perfect as well, although some people have claimed that they would like to see more. I prefer the sporty, less claustrophobic feel in the cabin. The C63 is very plush on the inside and has a gorgeous dashboard and display. Everything feels very expensive and high end. The steering wheel is a nice touch as well - for us M3 owners me must pay $1,000 or so for the Performance Steering wheel to match the standard flat bottom alcantara-adorned steering wheel on the W205 C63. There are nice touches on the inside of the C63 like ambiance lighting, fragrance vapor circulation throughout the cabin and optional bucket seats that look very fancy. At the end of the day all of these points are based on one’s preference. I personally prefer the F80 M3’s sporty interior to the more luxury-oriented Mercedes-Benz interior. The M logo that lights up on the seats will be hard to beat for me ☺
Daily use:
Where I took the W204 C63 for comfort over the F80 M3 In the last review, I would like to switch it this time to the F80 M3 as the W205 felt extremely dull to me in daily driving conditions. All of the driving-tech added a layer of detachment from the driving experience which made things rather unexciting. Without the Sport Exhaust on our demo vehicle, the exhaust note was not very audible from the heavily sound-proofed interior. I’ve come to love the F80 M3 as a daily driver. It is very comfortable and capable while being extremely efficient if driven the right way. The only shortfall here again is brakes, as I do drive a ton of highway miles on a daily basis and want for there to be an intuitive connection between my foot and the ability to slow the vehicle down in uncertain conditions. With all the added power to our current F80 M3 the brakes really do require more bite. The C63 also guzzles gas like there is no tomorrow despite the manufacturer's claims. This is a problem for me as I don’t consider myself to be a wealthy individual and do not desire to be filling up my tank 2-3 times a week.
Conclusion:
Rather than make this a general summary I would prefer to elaborate on the overall characters of these two very distinct vehicles, since there are so many enthusiasts that are either inclined to the M or AMG clubs. Both of these cars are trying to attain very different things, and thus have distinct personalities. The C63 is a refined modern-day muscle car, thankfully sticking to the roots with the V8 power plant and adding the edge of the twin-turbo setup. The M3 is what it has always been, an automotive enthusiasts mid-entry track car that can be driven to the office during the week. It is not necessarily always the fastest in a straight line but there is a great connection between the driver and the road at all times. The C63 does have a more elegant/pricier feel to it which is nice if you like that sort of thing. The M3 feels as if it is ready to dance at any point regardless of whether you are in a suit and tie or full track suite and helmet. The C63 gives you that straight line penetration that will make you wonder what kind of animal it can be with downpipes and a tune. The M3 can be set up to be a track warrior, accommodating aggressive suspension setups and super-wide tire setups for that planted feel. You get the point. Inevitably, these cars will always be pitted against one another but they are not trying to take each other's spot. So which one is the winner? That depends on who you ask. But I think you all know what my answer is. - Sam
I can't believe this is the first thing I say, but the interior of the new C sucks donkey ass. I've sat in one at the dealership, it felt pretty damn crappy.
The new C-class does nothing for me. I'm sure the performance will be fantastic but just by looking and sitting in one, I wasn't impressed whatosever, even the C63.
Its really the iPad dropped in the middle of the dash that turns me off. Maybe its nicer in person but it just looks out of position
What I think MB is doing is they have built an interior for this generation knowing that the LCD DIS in the S-Class is going to make it to the W205 before the W206 comes out. So, when they remove the screen the dashboard doesn't have to be redesigned.
It seems awkward right now but probably is for a reason that won't help current owners.
I can't believe this is the first thing I say, but the interior of the new C sucks donkey ass. I've sat in one at the dealership, it felt pretty damn crappy.
I just built one on the website and, with the exception of the carbon ceramic brakes, I added almost every package and option and I'm at $83k with that. Are you suggesting that an M3 isn't a viable DD but a C63 is? I'm confused.
I just built one on the website and, with the exception of the carbon ceramic brakes, I added almost every package and option and I'm at $83k with that. Are you suggesting that an M3 isn't a viable DD but a C63 is?
I'll settle if for the bofe of you foos. The RLX is the superior DD compared to both these chump-cars.
But, in all seriousness, it'd be a big-time cointoss between the M3 and C63...I would suspect the M3 would be sportier in feel and the C63 is a bit more "understated" to retain the Mercedes-Benz-esque feel?
I wasn't putting the M3 down at all, the point I was trying to make is that all cars have gotten expensive. The upside of the M3 and C63 is that they are four door sedans with a useful trunk and comfortable ride in addition to the insanity that comes when you put the pedal down. You really can't get that from a "lower end" brand these days.
On the flip side, you an get a Mustang GT350 for $20-$30k less that will wipe the floor with a M4.
I wasn't putting the M3 down at all, the point I was trying to make is that all cars have gotten expensive. The upside of the M3 and C63 is that they are four door sedans with a useful trunk and comfortable ride in addition to the insanity that comes when you put the pedal down. You really can't get that from a "lower end" brand these days.
Okay, I got you now. I agree that all cars have gotten crazy expensive. It's a little mind-boggling to realize that the average car sold in the U.S. now tops $30k.
Originally Posted by SamDoe1
On the flip side, you an get a Mustang GT350 for $20-$30k less that will wipe the floor with a M4.
Okay, I got you now. I agree that all cars have gotten crazy expensive. It's a little mind-boggling to realize that the average car sold in the U.S. now tops $30k.
Well, at least in a straight line, I agree.
lol.
The previous gen Mustang GT was just as fast as an E92 M3 around a race track and that was with a live rear axle and the same amount of power.
But, in all seriousness, it'd be a big-time cointoss between the M3 and C63...I would suspect the M3 would be sportier in feel and the C63 is a bit more "understated" to retain the Mercedes-Benz-esque feel?
Originally Posted by srika
M3/4 is def in the same class as C63 and can be easily cross-shopped
but you don't have to take my word for it - just a few quick links:
Most definitely in the same class.
M3/4 vs. C63 vs. RS4
Originally Posted by SamDoe1
I wasn't putting the M3 down at all, the point I was trying to make is that all cars have gotten expensive. The upside of the M3 and C63 is that they are four door sedans with a useful trunk and comfortable ride in addition to the insanity that comes when you put the pedal down. You really can't get that from a "lower end" brand these days.
On the flip side, you an get a Mustang GT350 for $20-$30k less that will wipe the floor with a M4.
The M3/4 has always been superior to C63 in terms of sports car performance.
The GT350 is a dedicated track car. The M3 is a car that's designed for a DD+Track use. It's not surprising that the GT350 puts down faster lap time than the M3.
I'm always surprised at how luxurious and cilivized the M3 is.
The GT350 is a dedicated track car. The M3 is a car that's designed for a DD+Track use. It's not surprising that the GT350 puts down faster lap time than the M3.
I'm always surprised at how luxurious and cilivized the M3 is.
The GT350R is the track model. The normal GT350 is a normal Mustang with the bigger motor and associated performance mods. It still has nav, AC, good stereo, comfortable seats, etc. Certainly not as luxurious as a M4 but at $20k less...it doesn't really need to be and it's definitely not a bad place to be. It's as much a DD as a M4 is. The GT350R however, is not a DD and is a track car.
I've got nothing against the M3/4, I love them and have immense respect for what they used to be and what they represent. However, my gripe is that they just aren't worth what they are charging these days over the competition. Though the M3 is a much easier sell to me than the M4 because of its four door design.
Originally Posted by oonowindoo
different type of cars...
Might as well bring the Z28 and Z06 in as well.
Z28 is most definitely a track only car. I'm sure it's total dog shit on public roads. The Z06 is another performance bargain and will wipe the floor with many many cars costing tens (or hundreds) of thousands more.
yah but the word "worth" is probably more subjective than exterior looks.
That itself has a lot to do with your personal preference/background and financial situation.
But the fact is M3/M4 are different type of cars with different type of customers than Mustang, Vette, Hellcats.
Now if we are talking about ATS-V then that is a different story and RS4/5, C63 and ATS-V, CTS-V are all priced up there. So the market says it is reasonably priced.
06-04-2015, 12:08 PM
Agree, not a fan of the re-design inside and out
And the M3 isn't?
not so
d it until I sat in one in person two weeks ago.