All Ron Jon Wheel owners (past&present) Check In
10-02-2009, 08:20 AM
#242
I would consider taking action, If I was approached in a manner that was even remotely polite or suggestive that we can meet halfway because the one year policy is up any way you slice it, I would have taken action. But no, I wasn't and guess what, this thread and it's MOTIVES were the icing on the cake. I have helped others who curbed and bent wheels just because they asked me if there was anything I could do to help in a mannerfull and professional way. Not this way and not now.
Have you even read this thread?
Ultimately, if you did not want the RS finish, why would you accept them and put them on your car, everybody knows you can't just use a product then return it like nothing happened. I offered the only possible solution in my power and you accepted, now you regret it, but your regret is not my fault. Why would you accept the calipers after the wheels didn't clear them? Like others said, you should have returned the wheels and I would have not been able to say no. but 2 sets of wheels and a set of calipers later, thats kind of a hard argument. My goal the whole time was to satisfy or else I would have blown you off the first time which I didn't. I WORKED with you as much as I could.
I mentioned this before. Its your business and youre free to run how you like.
But what I can tell you is that any business with reputation for great customer service goes beyond the call of duty even when the customer is out of line. Even when they are rude, or demanding, or whiny. They still get the service they paid for.
But if you want to be the business owner who doesnt want to put up with people who arent "pleasant" to you than you need to be prepared for these kinds of threads or incidents to happen.
The customer is always right.
Its sucks and its a pain in the ass (and its why I dont do anything customer service related) but its something to think about.
not every customer is going to be pleasant. And people are human and get all worked up before they talk to you. Its on you to be the bigger person and make the situation right. Even if they are being the biggest dick in the world.
Because even if they are the biggest dick in the world they might very well remember you did right by them when you didnt have to, and they'll send you some business.
Either way your call. Just my two cents.
But what I can tell you is that any business with reputation for great customer service goes beyond the call of duty even when the customer is out of line. Even when they are rude, or demanding, or whiny. They still get the service they paid for.
But if you want to be the business owner who doesnt want to put up with people who arent "pleasant" to you than you need to be prepared for these kinds of threads or incidents to happen.
The customer is always right.
Its sucks and its a pain in the ass (and its why I dont do anything customer service related) but its something to think about.
not every customer is going to be pleasant. And people are human and get all worked up before they talk to you. Its on you to be the bigger person and make the situation right. Even if they are being the biggest dick in the world.
Because even if they are the biggest dick in the world they might very well remember you did right by them when you didnt have to, and they'll send you some business.
Either way your call. Just my two cents.
Guess what, My Ex chromer has about 4 sets of wheels that were to be re-chromed, and they sent me a bill for warranty work. I told them, they peeled and they should be replaced. they told me, yeah, they were defective, but I had to pay for it. Plain and simple. I told them to eat a dick and keep the damn wheels. It's not even worth it to ship them back. Took the loss with a grain a salt and a few grey hairs. If you want, you can call them and get them and ask the situation of why your wheels initially peeled.
Classic Components, ask for Alan the prick or the company owner Gary glass.
Classic Components, Inc.
3420 W. Fordham Avenue
Santa Ana, CA. 92704
Toll Free- 1.888.327.4189
I gave them over $50k worth of business with nothing but defects.
Classic Components, ask for Alan the prick or the company owner Gary glass.
Classic Components, Inc.
3420 W. Fordham Avenue
Santa Ana, CA. 92704
Toll Free- 1.888.327.4189
I gave them over $50k worth of business with nothing but defects.
After all this, posting on other forums, and I'm expected to even entertain a solution? Really, I want the OP to get the most out of this. Lets say someone spit in your face, would you hold the door for him? Under any other circumstance, I would have probably replaced a wheel or so out of good will (if I even knew how many he is refering to). But after this, sorry, no way.
why would he not post on other forums? At least he is letting people like me know what ur products and service is like if anything bad had to happen. U sell ur product there too and hey everyone needs to know how good are u at what u do at the end of the day. I support the OP cause if I was in his situation I would want everyone to know what kinda business u running as well as what kind product u sell. hey I am sure if u were in his situation u would do the same. I mean come on now!
Agreed.
10-02-2009, 08:53 AM
#243
ikethegreat, listen, you have never done business with me, I have had thousands of transactions and wheels sold, with 99.99% of them completely satisfied and happy with the products and service. You have no right to judge me or base your judgments off the OP story unless you have had a direct relationship with me because the facts are distorted and obviously you are biased. Some are making this sound like I left him high and dry from the get go which is not true. I am not getting credit for trying my best over 2.8 years to rectify the solution.
The reason he stuck with the wheels in the beginning was because he was receiving the best service possible. If he never wanted my help he should have asked for a refund from the first issue. It's not my obligation to read minds or assume anything, he should have asked for a refund from day one. By accepting my solutions he was displaying his satisfaction in the matter. Then almost 3 years later, he decides he wants to start all over and reject my solutions he previously accepted. Don't drag me along as i bend over backwards to help then say forget it, I don't want them. If he didn't want the replacement wheels, he should have stopped me from shipping them out. I got his approval first and we agreed, or else I wouldn't have shipped them and the original set for free.
Regardless of what happened, I am not going to work with him on a solution because I have done so 3 times already and this is what came out of it. Anybody who gets defaced online would do the same thing. Nobody here would just turn the other cheek and fold because the damage has already be done and the intent of the OP's thread was negative from the get go. I dare anyone to quote what the OP wants. nobody knows exactly if he wants some replacements or if he wants to redip them or what. That right there is proof he is out to get me and I don't work that way. I'd rather develop a negative reputation then sucumb to this bullshit.
I've been on these forums selling wheels and kits and providing the best Customer service humanly possible, almost to a fault. This is maybe the 2nd time in 6 years I have ever had a problem with a customer, and this is after I tried everything to fix it. Then comes the OP with this thread on a few forums. That was the end of my solutions and efforts to please him. I'm done.
The reason he stuck with the wheels in the beginning was because he was receiving the best service possible. If he never wanted my help he should have asked for a refund from the first issue. It's not my obligation to read minds or assume anything, he should have asked for a refund from day one. By accepting my solutions he was displaying his satisfaction in the matter. Then almost 3 years later, he decides he wants to start all over and reject my solutions he previously accepted. Don't drag me along as i bend over backwards to help then say forget it, I don't want them. If he didn't want the replacement wheels, he should have stopped me from shipping them out. I got his approval first and we agreed, or else I wouldn't have shipped them and the original set for free.
Regardless of what happened, I am not going to work with him on a solution because I have done so 3 times already and this is what came out of it. Anybody who gets defaced online would do the same thing. Nobody here would just turn the other cheek and fold because the damage has already be done and the intent of the OP's thread was negative from the get go. I dare anyone to quote what the OP wants. nobody knows exactly if he wants some replacements or if he wants to redip them or what. That right there is proof he is out to get me and I don't work that way. I'd rather develop a negative reputation then sucumb to this bullshit.
I've been on these forums selling wheels and kits and providing the best Customer service humanly possible, almost to a fault. This is maybe the 2nd time in 6 years I have ever had a problem with a customer, and this is after I tried everything to fix it. Then comes the OP with this thread on a few forums. That was the end of my solutions and efforts to please him. I'm done.
10-02-2009, 09:16 AM
#244
What's more costly, the 2k$ refund or the potential damage this issue will do to your business? Seems to me that the OP has a pretty legitimate beef with your company. If it was my business I'd have made this go away about 6 pages ago. Pride is a bitch.
10-02-2009, 09:31 AM
#246
I even told him if the calipers and rotors didn't fit, then i would take the wheels and everything back at that point and refund him. He said no, lets try this route.
10-02-2009, 09:50 AM
#247
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Originally Posted by 99v6sedan
After that ride in june my car sat untouched until the beginning of september. Thats why I say my wheels have between 1000 and 1500 MAX.
June to september with rims sitting in the elements, yeah not Ron's fault whatsoever. Thanks for finally shedding some light on how the wheels became that way /thread
10-02-2009, 09:54 AM
#248
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Yes, if that was requested, I would have obliged. I have no choice if the wheels didn't fit, but he asked me if anything could be done like adding spacers or shaving the wheel. I told him I could send him some CL-S calipers and I think I sent him rotors too that might or might not fit, if he wanted to try them and they worked, I would give them to him for free. He told me he was planning on doing that anyway, and thanked me. He got them on and everything was fine at that point.
I even told him if the calipers and rotors didn't fit, then i would take the wheels and everything back at that point and refund him. He said no, lets try this route.
I even told him if the calipers and rotors didn't fit, then i would take the wheels and everything back at that point and refund him. He said no, lets try this route.
But this reply seems to answer it pretty easily.
Not ONCE over the course of 2.8 years was any of your suggestions or solutions to even offer him a refund.
Sorry dude, thats just not cool. I understand youre in a business to make money, and a refund will always be your last resort. And while you did try and offer solutions...there is a fault on you for never offering a refund.
As I've faulted the OP before on several occasions, yes, he should have asked for a refund...a few times during the whole mess. But you as a practicing business owner should have made that an option as well.
10-02-2009, 09:54 AM
#249
Anyone still wonder why the wheels pitted? I bet they weren't cleaned this whole time the car sat either June to september with rims sitting in the elements, yeah not Ron's fault whatsoever. Thanks for finally shedding some light on how the wheels became that way /thread
June to september with rims sitting in the elements, yeah not Ron's fault whatsoever. Thanks for finally shedding some light on how the wheels became that way /thread
10-02-2009, 09:56 AM
#250
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Anyone still wonder why the wheels pitted? I bet they weren't cleaned this whole time the car sat either June to september with rims sitting in the elements, yeah not Ron's fault whatsoever. Thanks for finally shedding some light on how the wheels became that way /thread
June to september with rims sitting in the elements, yeah not Ron's fault whatsoever. Thanks for finally shedding some light on how the wheels became that way /threadWhat if the car was in a garage?
Just for my own education.
10-02-2009, 10:04 AM
#251
ikethegreat made some great points I agree with him but Ron you don't seem to be a bad person and seem to have wanted to do well before for the OP. Most people are not here to bash you but just to see a resolution which is only fair if there was a question of quality there could have been offers made before refusal I understand how your warranty works and I don’t agree with it but it’s your policy but sometimes good will comes in to play when you see there is a quality issue or defect.
The OP did not want to make this public until he did his best to contact you and get a resolution from you but you told him it’s normal wear and tear and that he’s on his own to refinish the wheels. If I was not going to take a vendor that told me that to court I also would publicly express my concerns with that vendor. Everyone has an experience to share good or bad and you should understand that hopefully even though you’ve sold so many wheels and made some happy customers. I don’t think the OP really did anything wrong on his part but at the end of the day it does not matter what anyone says on this site it comes down to only 2 people.
.
The OP did not want to make this public until he did his best to contact you and get a resolution from you but you told him it’s normal wear and tear and that he’s on his own to refinish the wheels. If I was not going to take a vendor that told me that to court I also would publicly express my concerns with that vendor. Everyone has an experience to share good or bad and you should understand that hopefully even though you’ve sold so many wheels and made some happy customers. I don’t think the OP really did anything wrong on his part but at the end of the day it does not matter what anyone says on this site it comes down to only 2 people.
.
10-02-2009, 10:05 AM
#252
Ron, so what if 99.99% of your "Thousands" of transactions went smoothly. What you are showing it the .0001% of them that dont go smoothly get your panties in a bunch and you gut upset at your cusomer for calling you out on a crappy finish that he recieved from you twice.
10-02-2009, 10:06 AM
#253
Ron...sadly, you've ignored my questions for a couple pages now, and people have even quoted them wanting them answered as well, and you left them unanswered.
But this reply seems to answer it pretty easily.
Not ONCE over the course of 2.8 years was any of your suggestions or solutions to even offer him a refund.
Sorry dude, thats just not cool. I understand youre in a business to make money, and a refund will always be your last resort. And while you did try and offer solutions...there is a fault on you for never offering a refund.
As I've faulted the OP before on several occasions, yes, he should have asked for a refund...a few times during the whole mess. But you as a practicing business owner should have made that an option as well.
But this reply seems to answer it pretty easily.
Not ONCE over the course of 2.8 years was any of your suggestions or solutions to even offer him a refund.
Sorry dude, thats just not cool. I understand youre in a business to make money, and a refund will always be your last resort. And while you did try and offer solutions...there is a fault on you for never offering a refund.
As I've faulted the OP before on several occasions, yes, he should have asked for a refund...a few times during the whole mess. But you as a practicing business owner should have made that an option as well.
Besides, why am I at fault, he didn't even request the refund, and it's his money. After the calipers and replacement wheels, a refund is not an option anymore.
I even told him if the calipers and rotors didn't fit, then i would take the wheels and everything back at that point and refund him. He said no, lets try this route.
10-02-2009, 10:08 AM
#254
Anyone still wonder why the wheels pitted? I bet they weren't cleaned this whole time the car sat either June to september with rims sitting in the elements, yeah not Ron's fault whatsoever. Thanks for finally shedding some light on how the wheels became that way /thread
June to september with rims sitting in the elements, yeah not Ron's fault whatsoever. Thanks for finally shedding some light on how the wheels became that way /thread
10-02-2009, 10:11 AM
#255
Anyone still wonder why the wheels pitted? I bet they weren't cleaned this whole time the car sat either June to september with rims sitting in the elements, yeah not Ron's fault whatsoever. Thanks for finally shedding some light on how the wheels became that way /thread
June to september with rims sitting in the elements, yeah not Ron's fault whatsoever. Thanks for finally shedding some light on how the wheels became that way /thread
10-02-2009, 10:12 AM
#256
dɐɹɔ ǝɥʇ ʇɐɥʍ
That's what I've been thinking for the last few pages here, the damage this thread is doing to the brand is far greater then the shot to one's ego. When a new customer is looking into RonJon Wheels this thread will undoubtedly come up and is a very poor representation of the brand - damage like that is huge.
10-02-2009, 10:14 AM
#257
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And as I put in my post before this, I fault just as much for not asking for a refund as I fault you for not really offering a refund as a viable solution.
When you offered him the RS wheels in liu of chrome and he said he wanted chrome. You could have said here is the deal the RS, do you want them or would you like a refund.
At that point if he took the wheels, then this would be all on him.
As it stands, you are BOTH still at fault for bad communication.
10-02-2009, 10:17 AM
#258
I drive a Subata.
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wow this thing is still on?
10-02-2009, 10:21 AM
#260
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I have spoken to Ron several times over the years, but I'd hardly call him a friend, I'm switzerland up in this bitchReally is that really a legit question come on man lol, unless you have something on the finish of the wheel to eat or corroded it no way in hell. I've seen his car maybe a few times at some meets and he's a body guy he keeps that car in show shape so this is not even a question of him neglecting to clean his wheels lol.
10-02-2009, 10:28 AM
#261
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I do think for the benefit of good will Ron should probably refinish or replace the wheels, I would if it was my business.
That said, the pictures of the current wheels indicate normal wear and tear, imo. Looks like embedded brake dust or corrosion from an acid/caustic wheel cleaner. It's pretty common actually.
As mentioned, wheel sitting for 3 months with brake dust on them will almost certainly get corroded slightly as the brake dust etches the finish. Brake dust is acidic, it's the same reason white/silver cars have little yellow/orange dots on the paint behind the wheels. You could try to clay the wheels (same as you clay a car), but if they are etched then there is no fix other than to refinish.
That said, the pictures of the current wheels indicate normal wear and tear, imo. Looks like embedded brake dust or corrosion from an acid/caustic wheel cleaner. It's pretty common actually.
As mentioned, wheel sitting for 3 months with brake dust on them will almost certainly get corroded slightly as the brake dust etches the finish. Brake dust is acidic, it's the same reason white/silver cars have little yellow/orange dots on the paint behind the wheels. You could try to clay the wheels (same as you clay a car), but if they are etched then there is no fix other than to refinish.
10-02-2009, 10:32 AM
#262
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As mentioned, wheel sitting for 3 months with brake dust on them will almost certainly get corroded slightly as the brake dust etches the finish. Brake dust is acidic, it's the same reason white/silver cars have little yellow/orange dots on the paint behind the wheels. You could try to clay the wheels (same as you clay a car), but if they are etched then there is no fix other than to refinish.
10-02-2009, 10:36 AM
#263
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I do think for the benefit of good will Ron should probably refinish or replace the wheels, I would if it was my business.
That said, the pictures of the current wheels indicate normal wear and tear, imo. Looks like embedded brake dust or corrosion from an acid/caustic wheel cleaner. It's pretty common actually.
As mentioned, wheel sitting for 3 months with brake dust on them will almost certainly get corroded slightly as the brake dust etches the finish. Brake dust is acidic, it's the same reason white/silver cars have little yellow/orange dots on the paint behind the wheels. You could try to clay the wheels (same as you clay a car), but if they are etched then there is no fix other than to refinish.
That said, the pictures of the current wheels indicate normal wear and tear, imo. Looks like embedded brake dust or corrosion from an acid/caustic wheel cleaner. It's pretty common actually.
As mentioned, wheel sitting for 3 months with brake dust on them will almost certainly get corroded slightly as the brake dust etches the finish. Brake dust is acidic, it's the same reason white/silver cars have little yellow/orange dots on the paint behind the wheels. You could try to clay the wheels (same as you clay a car), but if they are etched then there is no fix other than to refinish.
10-02-2009, 10:42 AM
#264
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FWIW the OP could probably remove that stuff, it doesn't appear to be too badly etched. I'd clay them, then if that doesn't remove it entirely take a light paint polish to them (not metal polish, they are painted wheels). That'll help clean up some of the scratches on the lip, too.
10-02-2009, 10:59 AM
#265
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I think I have read all the comments so far and here is some items that are bothering me.
1. Why is RJ being held to "big business"/Macy like standard? A lot of people are talking about a refund - this is very difficult for small business and it would do the business owner no benefit to voluntarily offer to it. Just because big business heavily advertise their return policies (reminds on the GM 60 buy back or what not) doesn't mean small businesses need to abide by it. Has no one heard the phrase "A suite is a mailbox"? RJ tries hard to give a strong image of his corp. but really its just one guy working hard to with multiple providers to get a product out there (by principle I think that is fairly commendable).
2. I'm not seeing many other people complain (about their RJ rims) in this thread. There was one or two places where there was an issue mentioned but for the most part it sounds like it was taken care of one way or another. So it sounds like a possible one off bad set.
3. The timeline looks something like 2.5 to 3 years? And the complaint is about $2000-2100... that was shelled out at least a year ago? That seems to long time to hold a grudge/anger. Personally I let things go a bit quicker.
The last thing I would touch on is the "dark/other side" of RJ. To loosely paraphrase "Let the one without sin cast the first stone". Everyone has a dark(er) side. This is human nature. Those of who have (or had) wife and kids know that all too well. Shoot some days I think my "bright" side is really just a cover for my dark(er) side - I want to think Im just a jolly irish beer downing bloke with a huge smile on his face but I know I have imperfections.
~
irishbloke
1. Why is RJ being held to "big business"/Macy like standard? A lot of people are talking about a refund - this is very difficult for small business and it would do the business owner no benefit to voluntarily offer to it. Just because big business heavily advertise their return policies (reminds on the GM 60 buy back or what not) doesn't mean small businesses need to abide by it. Has no one heard the phrase "A suite is a mailbox"? RJ tries hard to give a strong image of his corp. but really its just one guy working hard to with multiple providers to get a product out there (by principle I think that is fairly commendable).
2. I'm not seeing many other people complain (about their RJ rims) in this thread. There was one or two places where there was an issue mentioned but for the most part it sounds like it was taken care of one way or another. So it sounds like a possible one off bad set.
3. The timeline looks something like 2.5 to 3 years? And the complaint is about $2000-2100... that was shelled out at least a year ago? That seems to long time to hold a grudge/anger. Personally I let things go a bit quicker.
The last thing I would touch on is the "dark/other side" of RJ. To loosely paraphrase "Let the one without sin cast the first stone". Everyone has a dark(er) side. This is human nature. Those of who have (or had) wife and kids know that all too well. Shoot some days I think my "bright" side is really just a cover for my dark(er) side - I want to think Im just a jolly irish beer downing bloke with a huge smile on his face but I know I have imperfections.
~
irishbloke
10-02-2009, 11:06 AM
#266
I'm the Firestarter
I'm one of Ron's first customers, I bought a set of Inspyres for my TSX back in 2004. I have no complains about dealing with him or with the rims, he gave me great service and I'm still happy with the product. There's a few places where the silver comes off a bit but by far the greatest damage is from scrapes and I even busted a rim on a pothole, I had to buy a new one. They still look good for 5-year-old rims IMO.
Having said that, I think there's a few things about this story that make me take notice:
Do I understand correctly that the OP paid for his rims and got them about a year later, and the whole time when he was waiting for the rims the warranty clock was counting down? If that's the case that would be a MAJOR red flag for me, I know I would never buy a set of rims knowing that the warranty is running out while they don't even exist yet. I guess the buyer should ask about stuff like that, but me, it wouldn't even occur to me to ask about this, I would just assume that any honest seller with a great reputation starts the warranty more or less when the buyer receives the product. Had I know this warranty policy, and had I known my wheels wouldn't get to me for months, I would have asked for my money back and never bought from this vendor again. Ron, you seriously need to review your warranty policy. Unless I have this all wrong, and I hope I do. To me, saying "you shoulda read the fine print" is no excuse for the seller in cases like this.
It was nice of Ron to send the calipers, but this was to make up for the fact that the rims didn't fit when they were supposed to fit. Yeah, that was a good that he sent them. But, it was equally nice of the buyer to KEEP the product, after waiting ONE YEAR for it, having his warranty expire through no fault of his own, AND he also paid for shipping. If Ron claimed the product would fit, it was up to him to either make them fit or take them back. And it doesn't sound like he offered to take them back at any point.
If the chrome finish was defective, it should have been replaced with good chrome finish under warranty. It doesn't sound like that was offered, because evidently it's not possible to get these wheels with a good chrome finish (chrome is tacky IMO anyway but that's another story, and I don't think a buyer should be punished for poor taste). He got a different product as a replacement, presumably a cheaper and less desirable one in his opinion, so Ron party honored his warranty, because he replaced the rims but not with the product the buyer paid for and wanted. The warranty wasn't supposed to allow for a full refund after one year, but it WAS supposed to give him a good set of chrome rims in exchange, which wasn't possible. So, rock and a hard place... I think Ron could have offered the guy a refund at this point but I guess he didn't:
So you're saying you offered the only possible solution, which was calipers and the reflective silver wheels... If that was the only possible solution then he had no choice. What you're saying here is that a refund option was never on the table. Later I think you said he could have got a refund, but that's inconsistent with what you said here.
This brings us to the chromer...
Ron obviously took a MAJOR hit with his shitty supplier. It sounds like it was really hard on his business and influenced his decision to not offer a refund, and instead try to "patch things up" with a different set of rims. It's tough being a small business. Gotta sympathize with him here.
Unbeknown to Ron, the buyer was obviously growing tired of compromising, first with having to pay for shipping on calipers, then on not getting the rims he paid for... and now, the rims he got as a replacement are showing abnormal wear.
First, I have to ask: is the chipping on the silver rims ONLY on the inside? If it is, I would tend to say let it go. If they still look good on the outside and show no such signs of chipping, I don't think they need to be replaced. On the other hand, I understand the OP's concern if he feels that this kind of wear on the inside means the outside will soon deteriorate as well, after going through all this crap with the warranty I would be concerned too. It's the last straw.
If the chipping is visible on the outside, and we can assume that the OP took reasonable care of the rims, then they're defective, and he should get some kind of compensation. It's not fair that you wait patiently for over 2 years and get a defective replacement for your rims. IMO any decent warranty gives you SOME kind of resonable warranty on the replacement product as well.
By the way Ron, I think you're wrong to claim that the OP has some "vendetta" and that he's been rude or whatnot. I don't see anything rude in his emails, I don't see anything rude in this email chain. After 2.8 years (or whatever) of having this ongoing issue, I can see how he might want to post about it on a forum. It was clearly a last resort. Maybe he was rude on the phone, maybe not. I might lose my temper too in this situation. You're probably pissed off at him too, because from your point of view you already took a huge loss through no fault of yours. That chroming company really fucked you.
Business is a bitch, but generally I think the consumer should get what he paid for, and the suppliers should be the ones suing each other. I think Ron has a good case against the chromers, and the OP shouldn't have to put up with defective replacement wheels if he paid $2000 and waited so long to get them.
Lesson: don't buy chrome wheels, Ron Jons or otherwise.
Having said that, I think there's a few things about this story that make me take notice:
Do I understand correctly that the OP paid for his rims and got them about a year later, and the whole time when he was waiting for the rims the warranty clock was counting down? If that's the case that would be a MAJOR red flag for me, I know I would never buy a set of rims knowing that the warranty is running out while they don't even exist yet. I guess the buyer should ask about stuff like that, but me, it wouldn't even occur to me to ask about this, I would just assume that any honest seller with a great reputation starts the warranty more or less when the buyer receives the product. Had I know this warranty policy, and had I known my wheels wouldn't get to me for months, I would have asked for my money back and never bought from this vendor again. Ron, you seriously need to review your warranty policy. Unless I have this all wrong, and I hope I do. To me, saying "you shoulda read the fine print" is no excuse for the seller in cases like this.
It was nice of Ron to send the calipers, but this was to make up for the fact that the rims didn't fit when they were supposed to fit. Yeah, that was a good that he sent them. But, it was equally nice of the buyer to KEEP the product, after waiting ONE YEAR for it, having his warranty expire through no fault of his own, AND he also paid for shipping. If Ron claimed the product would fit, it was up to him to either make them fit or take them back. And it doesn't sound like he offered to take them back at any point.
If the chrome finish was defective, it should have been replaced with good chrome finish under warranty. It doesn't sound like that was offered, because evidently it's not possible to get these wheels with a good chrome finish (chrome is tacky IMO anyway but that's another story, and I don't think a buyer should be punished for poor taste). He got a different product as a replacement, presumably a cheaper and less desirable one in his opinion, so Ron party honored his warranty, because he replaced the rims but not with the product the buyer paid for and wanted. The warranty wasn't supposed to allow for a full refund after one year, but it WAS supposed to give him a good set of chrome rims in exchange, which wasn't possible. So, rock and a hard place... I think Ron could have offered the guy a refund at this point but I guess he didn't:
This brings us to the chromer...
Ron obviously took a MAJOR hit with his shitty supplier. It sounds like it was really hard on his business and influenced his decision to not offer a refund, and instead try to "patch things up" with a different set of rims. It's tough being a small business. Gotta sympathize with him here.
Unbeknown to Ron, the buyer was obviously growing tired of compromising, first with having to pay for shipping on calipers, then on not getting the rims he paid for... and now, the rims he got as a replacement are showing abnormal wear.
First, I have to ask: is the chipping on the silver rims ONLY on the inside? If it is, I would tend to say let it go. If they still look good on the outside and show no such signs of chipping, I don't think they need to be replaced. On the other hand, I understand the OP's concern if he feels that this kind of wear on the inside means the outside will soon deteriorate as well, after going through all this crap with the warranty I would be concerned too. It's the last straw.
If the chipping is visible on the outside, and we can assume that the OP took reasonable care of the rims, then they're defective, and he should get some kind of compensation. It's not fair that you wait patiently for over 2 years and get a defective replacement for your rims. IMO any decent warranty gives you SOME kind of resonable warranty on the replacement product as well.
By the way Ron, I think you're wrong to claim that the OP has some "vendetta" and that he's been rude or whatnot. I don't see anything rude in his emails, I don't see anything rude in this email chain. After 2.8 years (or whatever) of having this ongoing issue, I can see how he might want to post about it on a forum. It was clearly a last resort. Maybe he was rude on the phone, maybe not. I might lose my temper too in this situation. You're probably pissed off at him too, because from your point of view you already took a huge loss through no fault of yours. That chroming company really fucked you.
Business is a bitch, but generally I think the consumer should get what he paid for, and the suppliers should be the ones suing each other. I think Ron has a good case against the chromers, and the OP shouldn't have to put up with defective replacement wheels if he paid $2000 and waited so long to get them.
Lesson: don't buy chrome wheels, Ron Jons or otherwise.
10-02-2009, 11:17 AM
#267
I drive a Subata.
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I do think for the benefit of good will Ron should probably refinish or replace the wheels, I would if it was my business.
That said, the pictures of the current wheels indicate normal wear and tear, imo. Looks like embedded brake dust or corrosion from an acid/caustic wheel cleaner. It's pretty common actually.
As mentioned, wheel sitting for 3 months with brake dust on them will almost certainly get corroded slightly as the brake dust etches the finish. Brake dust is acidic, it's the same reason white/silver cars have little yellow/orange dots on the paint behind the wheels. You could try to clay the wheels (same as you clay a car), but if they are etched then there is no fix other than to refinish.
That said, the pictures of the current wheels indicate normal wear and tear, imo. Looks like embedded brake dust or corrosion from an acid/caustic wheel cleaner. It's pretty common actually.
As mentioned, wheel sitting for 3 months with brake dust on them will almost certainly get corroded slightly as the brake dust etches the finish. Brake dust is acidic, it's the same reason white/silver cars have little yellow/orange dots on the paint behind the wheels. You could try to clay the wheels (same as you clay a car), but if they are etched then there is no fix other than to refinish.
10-02-2009, 11:21 AM
#268
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it seems like taking the silver rims instead of the chrome was the op just saying" you know, i'm tired of dealing with this. Fine i'll take them and just deal with it" and then once the new rims had issues, then it really became a bigger issue.
10-02-2009, 11:23 AM
#270
S/Ced J36S 6spd Soon
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Anyone still wonder why the wheels pitted? I bet they weren't cleaned this whole time the car sat either June to september with rims sitting in the elements, yeah not Ron's fault whatsoever. Thanks for finally shedding some light on how the wheels became that way /thread
June to september with rims sitting in the elements, yeah not Ron's fault whatsoever. Thanks for finally shedding some light on how the wheels became that way /threadAgain im doing a quick peek in on lunch will post replies when I get off.
10-02-2009, 11:24 AM
#271
The Third Ball
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I think I have read all the comments so far and here is some items that are bothering me.
1. Why is RJ being held to "big business"/Macy like standard? A lot of people are talking about a refund - this is very difficult for small business and it would do the business owner no benefit to voluntarily offer to it. Just because big business heavily advertise their return policies (reminds on the GM 60 buy back or what not) doesn't mean small businesses need to abide by it. Has no one heard the phrase "A suite is a mailbox"? RJ tries hard to give a strong image of his corp. but really its just one guy working hard to with multiple providers to get a product out there (by principle I think that is fairly commendable).
~
irishbloke
1. Why is RJ being held to "big business"/Macy like standard? A lot of people are talking about a refund - this is very difficult for small business and it would do the business owner no benefit to voluntarily offer to it. Just because big business heavily advertise their return policies (reminds on the GM 60 buy back or what not) doesn't mean small businesses need to abide by it. Has no one heard the phrase "A suite is a mailbox"? RJ tries hard to give a strong image of his corp. but really its just one guy working hard to with multiple providers to get a product out there (by principle I think that is fairly commendable).
~
irishbloke
But...customer service is customer service. And you take the hit to gain rep, or you let it go and risk it getting out of hand such as this incident.
The talk of refund is very valid in every scenario whether its easier for a small business to accommodate or not.
1) A refund should have been offered, along with the caliper solution, in light of the wheels not fitting because the business owner provided incorrect information.
2) A refund should have been offered when the original chrome wheels were defective and could not be replaced with another set of chrome wheels.
Set aside Ron getting screwed by his chromer. set aside Ron's enlightening us on how US chromers suck. None of that has anythng to do with the fact the customer paid for something he wasn't getting.
All signs point to refund, period.
And its Ron fault for not offering one. And its the OPs fault for never asking.
Whats bringing me down is Ron's pride at this point. He won't take fault for never offering a refund, hell, he had to prodded to even answer the question about whether he even offered one.
And Ron has pretty much said if you are even "mean" to him, he will shut down and you will not be getting any kind of service.
Again, thats just wrong. His business, but wrong none the less.
Also, we have all found a big flaw in warranty policy.
As for the OP. He should have asked for a refund.
And with news coming to light about leaving a car sitting with corrosive material on it...which we dont if that is the case or not...his current dilemma might very well be normal wear and tear. It might not. Really hard, probably impossible, to tell at this point.
Last edited by Sarlacc; 10-02-2009 at 11:27 AM.
10-02-2009, 11:32 AM
#272
As mentioned, wheel sitting for 3 months with brake dust on them will almost certainly get corroded slightly as the brake dust etches the finish. Brake dust is acidic, it's the same reason white/silver cars have little yellow/orange dots on the paint behind the wheels. You could try to clay the wheels (same as you clay a car), but if they are etched then there is no fix other than to refinish.
10-02-2009, 11:42 AM
#273
Having said that, I think there's a few things about this story that make me take notice:
Do I understand correctly that the OP paid for his rims and got them about a year later, and the whole time when he was waiting for the rims the warranty clock was counting down? If that's the case that would be a MAJOR red flag for me, I know I would never buy a set of rims knowing that the warranty is running out while they don't even exist yet. I guess the buyer should ask about stuff like that, but me, it wouldn't even occur to me to ask about this, I would just assume that any honest seller with a great reputation starts the warranty more or less when the buyer receives the product. Had I know this warranty policy, and had I known my wheels wouldn't get to me for months, I would have asked for my money back and never bought from this vendor again. Ron, you seriously need to review your warranty policy. Unless I have this all wrong, and I hope I do. To me, saying "you shoulda read the fine print" is no excuse for the seller in cases like this.
Do I understand correctly that the OP paid for his rims and got them about a year later, and the whole time when he was waiting for the rims the warranty clock was counting down? If that's the case that would be a MAJOR red flag for me, I know I would never buy a set of rims knowing that the warranty is running out while they don't even exist yet. I guess the buyer should ask about stuff like that, but me, it wouldn't even occur to me to ask about this, I would just assume that any honest seller with a great reputation starts the warranty more or less when the buyer receives the product. Had I know this warranty policy, and had I known my wheels wouldn't get to me for months, I would have asked for my money back and never bought from this vendor again. Ron, you seriously need to review your warranty policy. Unless I have this all wrong, and I hope I do. To me, saying "you shoulda read the fine print" is no excuse for the seller in cases like this.
No, the warranty started when the product was received, not when the purchase was placed. And the year it took to get the wheel was actuallyu becasue he placed a preorder on the wheel before it was available, and then once it arrived, the wheel had to be custom chromed domestically. We all know how long chromers take.
He was offered this option after he expressed that he really lieks the wheel and that he wants to make it work with spacers or something when he received the wheels and they did not fit over the factory calipers.
A.) accept a set of free rotors and calipers that would allow the wheels to fit.
B.) I told him if the calipers don't work, the only option at that point is to receive a refund and send the brakes back.
10-02-2009, 11:42 AM
#274
The Third Ball
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10-02-2009, 11:45 AM
#275
The Third Ball
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He was offered this option after he expressed that he really lieks the wheel and that he wants to make it work with spacers or something when he received the wheels and they did not fit over the factory calipers.
A.) accept a set of free rotors and calipers that would allow the wheels to fit.
B.) I told him if the calipers don't work, the only option at that point is to receive a refund and send the brakes back.
A.) accept a set of free rotors and calipers that would allow the wheels to fit.
B.) I told him if the calipers don't work, the only option at that point is to receive a refund and send the brakes back.
I still say a refund should have been offered up front, regardless of whether he wanted it to work or not. That way, its out there, you offered a refund and he declined.
What about the discrepancy that he says he had to pay for shipping on the calipers, and you say you paid for shipping on the calipers?
If he had to pay, than they weren't free. Small point but still saying.
10-02-2009, 12:04 PM
#276
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That said, the pictures of the current wheels indicate normal wear and tear, imo. Looks like embedded brake dust or corrosion from an acid/caustic wheel cleaner. It's pretty common actually.
As mentioned, wheel sitting for 3 months with brake dust on them will almost certainly get corroded slightly as the brake dust etches the finish. Brake dust is acidic, it's the same reason white/silver cars have little yellow/orange dots on the paint behind the wheels. You could try to clay the wheels (same as you clay a car), but if they are etched then there is no fix other than to refinish.
As mentioned, wheel sitting for 3 months with brake dust on them will almost certainly get corroded slightly as the brake dust etches the finish. Brake dust is acidic, it's the same reason white/silver cars have little yellow/orange dots on the paint behind the wheels. You could try to clay the wheels (same as you clay a car), but if they are etched then there is no fix other than to refinish.
Well you're not giving us the whole story, only pieces at a time, I read what you said about the car remaining "untouched" (your words that I quoted) for 3 months as the car being untouched, and I have seen brake dust etch rims a hundred times before, whether it was in a garage or not, which again you never stated if it was left inside or outside. Not to mention that you brought the issue about this finish etching up in September not June from everything that I've seen
10-02-2009, 12:30 PM
#279
Right. As if this is the only thread that I'm basing my opinion of Sarlacc upon.
I did finish reading the whole thread. I really have no opinion. A business transaction gone sour; it happens everywhere everyday. Best wishes to all involved parties.
I did finish reading the whole thread. I really have no opinion. A business transaction gone sour; it happens everywhere everyday. Best wishes to all involved parties.