its the suspension, tires, electrics.
Model 3 AWD has similar weight as RDX SH-AWD. RDX is much more spacious.
Tesla Model S has similar weight as Lexus GX 460 SUV. you can put 17 or 18inch rim/tire size on it like 4Runner.
with Tesla its the expensive 20 to 21 tires. slight damage on curb. very expensive to repair.

Quote:

https://www.currentautomotive.com/no...nty-for-tesla/

 

I was speaking from more of a planned obsolescence point of view. Tesla has full control of their product. They could literally make it impossible for you to force you to buy a new one. This is just theory.

As far as battery goes, I drive a lot, and usually spur of the moment, so in my case, not good. The million mile battery seems interesting.

I still think ICE has a good presence regardless, especially since most people I know don't want/like new designs anyway.

 

I don't understand why are you comparing sedan to SUV / crossover which will obviously have more space. Electric vehicles weigh more due to the battery which is heavy. The true competitor to RDX will be Model Y (even though slightly more expensive), but I can assure you that Model Y sales will obliterate the RDX sales.... as will be evident in about 6 months to a year time. The Model 3 amply demonstrated that to BMW 3 series, Mercedes C class, Audi, and every other premium sedan. Its sales were even approaching mainstream sedans even though it has the premium price range.
Again why compare Model S to Lexus GS which are at opposite ends of spectrum in everything. One is ultra modern performance sedan, other is true off road body on frame dinosaur SUV (Landcruiser Prado). May be you should compare that to Model X. I don't like large rims wheels too and would prefer the cheaper smaller one wherever possible. I'm not in the market for Model S anyway even if a heavily modded and trashed out one is available for just under 40K (from the ad you listed). I would rather buy a newer one (3 or Y) from factory. This would not be a long trip car for me, but just my commute car. So high miles are not expected. I have a Pacifica minivan for longer weekend trips (three small kids, yeah...nothing else will work ). There is no other SUV (gas or electric) which provides as much interior space utilization and flexibility with seating as a minivan.

 

I see what you mean. Yes, that's a legit concern since apparently Apple has tried that strategy. I would be more wary of legacy automakers trying that out. I doubt Tesla would try that on a large scale since their entire reputation is hanging on their goodwill to planet and reliable sustainable technology. If they screw up that aspect, there's nothing much for them to hang on to. I would take a blind leap here .

 

Tesla is still supporting their 2008 Roadster


And there’s a growing market for 3rd party repair shops


When Uncle Rick opened his Electrified Garage EV repair shop, Tesla was at the grand opening to support him

 

in CA weight and price are parameters of registeration cost.
I mean RDX and Model 3 are similar in price and weight but RDX is much more vehicle by capability. labor are very expensive and making appointments are time consuming. if Tesla don't have dealer network like Acura so who will do the tire rotation?. Acura has that accelerated service for oil change, tire rotation.

when you consider the road conditions, uneven bumps and curbs at least expected places in malls I feel more confident on traditional body on frame SUV that is refined. A lot of people that I know has bent rims , deformed suspension. there are not many BOF SUVs in 18inch rim size.

 

Totally see your point of view. They would basically be cutting their own throat if they did that. I don't trust Elon, however.

Another valid point. I think both types of vehicle will happily co-exist!

Down here where I am, there isn't much interest or support for EV. It's just not in our culture.

 

You mean to say that the less practical vehicle costing the same as the more capable RDX outsold it by 2:1. In that case just imagine what the Model Y (which is closer to RDX in capability) will do to it...?
Not sure why tire rotation is a huge issue in California. Do you always go to dealerships for tire rotations? There are several tire shops who will do lifetime free tire rotation service. Teslas do not have a scheduled yearly service and you can do tire rotations at your leisure whenever wherever you want to.
Body on frame design has its advantages and are well suited for hard off road / desert / safari, etc. I'm not discounting them, they have their place. But you seem like perfectly suited candidate for the Cybertruck with it's huge 35" wheels....and massive sidewalls ???

 

Toyota 4 Runner is also similar price range as Model 3. which one is more successful despite no credits.
those small shops are busy as they are crowded and have no time management skills. Acura service include inspection.
it will have wide turning radius. Lexus GX outsells Model X. 4Runner and Lexus GX comes with 17 and 18 inch rims. which is polar opposite of oversize wheels.

 

This is getting good.

 

Model 3 and 4 Runner:???? Again not even a close comparison. I’d rather have both in my garage.
Model 3 competitors are BMW 3 series, C class , Audi A4-5, Acura TLX, Infiniti, Lexus IS, ES, etc and it fares very well with all of them.
Model Y should be compared to RDX, Lexus NX, RX all the German equivalent SUVs ,.... to have a real apple to Apple comparison.
Tesla doesn’t even have an off roader SUV to compare with 4 Runner (May be Cybertruck if you want to - but that’s way off too).

 

I see you've never interacted with SSFTSX...

 

No .... what’s up with the dude?
All I'm saying is you simply cannot compare a compact premium sedan with a true off road body on frame SUV. Hugely different parameters of space and utility. The market is different and buyers are different. They will be very unlikely to be cross-shopped.
But yes, you can add it to the mix whenever Model Y arrives ( even though it’s capabilities are also different- but closer to than Model 3).

 

He has a unique take on automotive news and analysis, with a very high bias towards Acura.

 

Wait until the Model Y comes out

 

People are abandoning Sedans for SUVs depend on budget and space. just look around. 4Runner turn radius same as Model 3.
Tesla need a garage to make it work efficient. and a lot people not like dealing with that giant ipad screen after working on computer screens.
Alex on Auto review GX. watch it after 15 minute.

 

I don't disagree with you that SUVs are selling better than sedans. In fact that is the same issue I'm trying to highlight. Even with all the shortcomings (market trend against them), Model S sedan still surpassed several premium SUVs. You just made the case for Model Y stronger. . No wonder Tesla is planning to make Model Y first in the European Gigafactory (before Model 3).
That interior of GX tho... ho ... so last generation ....90s.... Honestly I had no idea that this model can be had for near 50K. I'm sure the ride will be excellent though and there is a solid market for these SUVs. But I've heard some rumors that this model is going to be axed soon form the Lexus lineup , but may be not. Guess we'll have to wait and see.
Why does Tesla need a garage to make it efficient? I haven't heard this statement before. Is that a real thing or are you making stuff up?

 

Yes, I'm getting to know that, I can live with the bias towards Acura...since I have one too .
I have a feeling the bias is towards Toyota/ Lexus though .

 

so you don't want garage for Tesla to deal with sun , heat or cold. how will the interior and exterior parts survive long term and its impact on range.
Model S surpassed for short period. now all MB GLS, BMW X7, Lexus GX, even the infiniti QX80/Nissan Armada selling way better.
model Y wont make a difference. infact people will have car sickness starring to that giant Ipad. thats why people like that old fashioned SUVs with tactile feeling of buttons.

whats the point of putting emphasis on Tires and alignment for sale ad?

 

As you can read, he's also an industrial engineer and perhaps even has a medical degree.

 

Buckle up buttercup, this is just the start lol.

Ah, so an interior designer. Now it all makes sense.

 

I don’t even know how to or even whether to reply to you or ignore you. You seem to make very superfluous statements skirting the point in question. Some of them don’t even make any sense.
Yes I do like to feel knobs and buttons in a premium interior, but that’s only one part of the equation.
No, I’m not interested in buying a used Tesla at all and I don’t like performance tires either.
I gather you don’t have a widescreen TV at home also.

 

With all that experience if this is all he can come up with, then there is something wrong. Remember “Rockyboy” ....

 

so you don't like performance tires. so how you going to deal with oversize wheels of Model Y?
wide screen TV is watched from 10 feet .
from what i have read Model Y interior will be identical to Model 3. and most likely that glass roof where all the heat coming in. Practical range will be in 300 mile. you can only charged to 80% to keep battery life longer.
i doubt it will have 7500 tax credit like Rav4 prime with more conventional interior.

 

Yeah..... I remember him...

 

Those tires won't kill me. I'll take whatever are the smaller wheels available in the range.
And you point is.... what? Is RAV 4 prime (with the conventional interior and full tax credit) outselling the Model 3??? ...? I doubt so. Model Y will be the same.
Model 3 has the same big iPad and is selling well..... what are you trying to say...? Do you have any comprehension skills...?
I believe all tax credits are ending for Tesla this year. Currently it is $1800 or so which will end in two weeks. You think that matters to someone paying 50K for a car. Dealerships will easily gouge you for more than that amount.

 

RAV4 has 40k sales a month. about 10K are hybrids. and that without 7500 federal credit. and don't forget. California and local electric credits on top of that. This is like 10K credits for $40k car. that has 300bhp engine and potentially 550 mile range. Model 3 sales are not sustainable unlike RAV4. RAV4 has 17, 18, 19 inch rims. person can choose.
you can read comment about turning radius and Window. if they used wider tires than Model 3 on Model Y which is highly likely due to increased weight and centre of gravity. It will be huge like full size car rather than compact SUV. some time paper specification not tell the story.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaModel3/comments/ceniqi/finally_found_a_flaw_in_the_model_3_turning_radius/
https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaModel3/comments/c34r7t/why_the_turning_radius_feels_odd/

 

Welcome to the party, pal.

 

As I said before, they are not direct competitors. Model Y is competing with the premium SUVs. My apologies, I somehow assumed that the RAV 4 he was talking about was a full BEV.
Model 3 is not competing with Corolla either.

 

Model Y is competing with premium SUVs? how so.
Model 3 by definition is not a luxury car. unless they significantly upgraded Model Y. there is zero chance its a premium SUV.


At 25000 mile All season tires are done in city driving. no hard acceleration for Uber.

Quote:

https://tomharrisonjr.com/tesla-mode...e-a5b57044eea8

RAV4 Prime is one step above RAV4 hybrid. 10 year battery warranty and most Toyotas you can buy extended warranties for under $2K. the same warranty will cost you $5k at Tesla. first 25000 miles free maintain at Toyota.
I wont be surprized next year Toyota shows up with next generation lexus NX.

 

From model 3 forum. Now it doesn’t matter whatever he posts.

 

We can argue all day whether Model 3 / Y is premium or not and still not reach a consensus. But I'm not even going there since I don't have a great opinion of Tesla interior either.
Lets look at it more scientifically.
Whose pie in the sales chart is the Model 3 taking? Certainly not the off road SUVs mentioned here. They will continue to sell regardless of Model 3 / Y present or not.
Whose lunch is Tesla eating? Buyers of which models are likely to cross shop with Tesla 3/Y.
That will decide whether it is considered Luxury or not.

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/12/14...chnica-report/ The Tesla Model 3 continues to dominate the US premium-class car market. In fact, it has dominated this market to such an extent that it has more sales in 2019 than all of BMW’s small & midsize models combined, all of Mercedes-Benz’s small & midsized models combined, all of Audi’s small & midsized models combined, all of Lexus’s small & midsized models combined, etc.

 

I wonder what your opinion about Toyota Prius. it sells approached 200K a year in 2007-2008 with some months approaching 20k.
100K sales per year avg per until 2011.
that central stack design.

 

Prius is simply an efficient ICE car. I don’t know what’s the average selling price of Prius is but I doubt if it’s in the ballpark range of BMW 3s or C classes.
Battery electric vehicles haven’t reached the price competitive stage with mainstream affordable cars yet, therefore that comparison isn’t much valid.
Its surprising that with all these years lead in hybrid technology which Toyota had, they haven’t figured out how to make a successful pure BEV.

 

Now after another year when the Model Y had a free run in open market and if it is as successful as the model 3 is, it will be fairly obvious to everyone that who is taking a beating.
My guess is the premium compact to midsized (2 row) such as RDX and others will in caught in the storm.
Prius sales will be replaced by RAV 4 hybrid I guess.

 

I gave you Toyota Prius example as it has big hype from 2006 . It wasn't cheap either at time. no one could get discounts and prices were near $25k which is same as $35K now.
you are confusing one time hype of Model 3 which barely sells 10k a month with help of credits (don't forget california and PGE credits) as some kind of trend.
It will take some time when consumers get to know the deficiencies and costs of Model 3.

 

Model Y is likely to cannibalize Model 3 sales. Model Y will be priced higher and practically no credits. Tire size and long turn radius will make it impractical in city driving. only 230 mile range on basis version against 600 mile range of Honda CRV hybrid which is likely more refined. Honda CRV hybrid has active sound control along with headup display, ventilated front seats. honda CRV has 235/60/18 tires. 60 tire x-section give a lot of cushion on shorter vehicle with shorter turn radius.

 

Agree with you here. May be you are right.

.
Quite possible, but Tesla believes it won't be a huge problem. Model X didn't cannibalize Model S sales at that time it was launched. Instead the sales of S increased. It's only a theory though. Even now the credits are minimum and they are selling well. I don't think being out of credits is a big problem especially in the premium segment. Yes, It can be a problem for mainstream cheaper cars.

.
Where did you get this idea from? Has the turning circle of Y been published? Why are you making assumptions? Has it been a problem for Model 3 yet (which seem to have the same performance tires)? I don't think so, and so will be for Model Y.
Mainstream ICE cars are not comparable to Tesla at present. I have been saying that for past several posts. You can compare them if you want to. Tesla is competing only in the premium space at present. If they come up with a cheaper model then this talk will be relevant.

 

Tesla has 40% revenue decline in Q3 2019 in US. with California sales of Model S/X declining 50%. such is the big collapse. how can such firm even afford deep long term R&D and long term warranty obligations?. it is just selling software gimmicks like service company not real engineering firm. I am not blaming Tesla alone it extends to GM/ Boeing/GE or construction firms. Stock market award software firms.

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3480567-teslas-model-s-sales-decline-in-california-model-3-gains-wsj



Toyota-Honda has more long term global look with global platforms and less reliance on software thats why they have that bargain basement versions with no big screens in center.
I havent seen anywthere that Model Y is upgrade on Model 3 in materials / structure or interior. it will will just get englarged wheels and tires to deal with weight will call it a Crossover with dysfunctional turn radius.

i havent seen any test of US made Honda CRV hybrid but this will give you idea what is on sale in Europe. Tesla lacks wind and tire noise suppression in front seat let alone in back seat.

Quote:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review...ng-term-review

 

In Q3 2018 Tesla was only shipping to North America, they started shipping Internationally in Q1 19. Tesla focused more on International orders in Q1 19 and Q3 19 while Q2 and Q4 they're focusing on domestic orders. Lame cherrypick bro