derrick

Good read.

Fishy

Okay, here is "The Truth" as the article is titled:

The author is Chris Harris, a Porsche race driver and self-described as "someone who tends to live and breathe Porsche". Hmmm, biased oh so slightly to Porsche?

The 997 GT2 was a corporate Club Sport spec'ed car with roll cage (stiffens chassis and improves handling), shaved Michelin Pilot Sport Cup+ etc. The stock GT-R was borrowed from a private owner and it had the Bridgestones instead of the better Dunlops used in Nissan's test. Hmmm, how is this fair?

Would Chris push a borrowed stock GT-R as hard as the company track spec'ed GT2? I don't think so. And I believe this test was his first time in the GT-R, at least at the Ring, where he's probably gone a few more with Porsche's.

As he noted, he was swinging way wide with the GT-R on the turns because of the damp conditions and it would be here that the GT-R would gain time over the GT2. Still...

His beginner time with the GT-R for a single flying lap in damp conditions: 7min 55.9sec
Porsche test driver's published time with the GT-R: 7min 54sec

Hmmm 1.9 second diff? Porsche should be very ashamed to publish their dog's breakfast Ring time with the GT-R.

Fishy

Oops forgot to add Chris' time with GT2: 7min 49sec

So he was just 6.9 seconds faster and this could have easily been eliminated if any of these were done:

- he used a stock GT2 instead of the track spec'ed Club Sport.
- he used the Dunlops on the GT-R
- he spent more than a few laps with the GT-R to familiarize himself with it.
- he used a Nissan donated or Porsche purchased GT-R which he could drive closer to the limit without fear of damaging someone else's car.

But, all the above would have been required for a fair test, and then the GT-R would have easily beaten the GT2.

The truth is, Drivers Republic should be ashamed of publishing this.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I think Nissan claimed that the Dunlops are good for 5 seconds on the Ring, at least that's what the article says. Perhaps it's more than that?

I think his point was not about whether the GTR is a 7:55 car or not. His point was that, given all the factors (including the ones you mentioned), is it possible to cut over 25 seconds?

I believe the 911 Turbo is already a 7:40 car, but that's under another driving condition. And I think I've seen 7:32 for a 911 GT2 (can't remember if that was 996 or 997 though).

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

That is very funny. haha

Nissan definitely has a sense of humor.

knight rider

iTrader: (1)

Seriously folks. If I owned a GTR and a GT2 pulled up beside me at a light... I would not care if some professional driver drove the car beside me on a track and beat it out by a matter of seconds. When the light turned green I'd let him have it!

Fishy

Given all the factors I mentioned, he should have gone faster in the GT-R than the GT2.

If the GT2 can do 7:32 in better conditions: warmer, drier (which would benefit the heavier GT-R), then the GT-R should beat 7:32.

Given someone with a tad more motivation than a Porsche race/test driver to drive the GT-R harder and better, then yes, I think 7:29 is possible.

Motohip

I like how it upset people at Porsche that the GTR is so fast. And that other car manufacturers are buying them to test them (and probably copy it's technology).

savage

That's what Nissan did... In most of the spy shots you would see a 997 Turbo leading or in hot pursuit...

srika

Nissan sucks, lol.

Costco

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

On the other hand, considering that he's a professional driver himself (at least I think that's what he said in the article I believe), I'd say he's pretty brave to post such crappy lap times...lol..

Maximized

The Pilot Cups aren't a wet and cold tire. In these conditions a street tire might actually be quicker. It was mentioned in the article that the GT2 was a handful due to conditions, rwd, and definitely the tires.

Lastly, Chris felt more comfortable in the GTR saying "I felt I came much closer to extracing the maximum performance of the Nissan".

Maximized

Why because the GTR was slower?

I am getting tired of seeing Ring times personally. As Chris stated, simple condition changes can mean seconds per lap. This test was run on similar conditions, so that's a big plus.

fsttyms1

Oh please. Is it that hard for some to believe that that car (gt-r) isnt as all and mighty as some would like?

Costco

Teh GT-R is the greatest car evar!!!! No car will evar be bettar! GT-R > *

Fishy

Yes, he did admit to having no balls and driving the GT-R like a girl.

Driver's Republic should be ashamed to publish this test with a Porsche race driver, a Club Sport GT2 and a stock GT-R. The times don't actually matter as it should be clear to any unbiased reviewer that this test was horribly rigged.

Sword cuts both ways. It seems hard for some to believe that Porsche or those affliated with them would never confirm that Nissan beat them on their home track.

I don't really know who this Chris Harris guy is, but I do know the Senna name and Bruno Senna drove the GT-R faster than the GT2 in wet conditions (again favoring the GT2). That's good enough for me.

But bottom line, the GT-R is too fat at 4000lb and the GT2 has too fat of an ass. Both are fast but neither is a better sports car than the Caymans, NSX, Elise, etc.

MaximaPower

so this guy, chris harris, who drove his friend's GTR only once around the n-ring felt like he extracted the "maximum performance of the nissan?"

well i guess he's way better than porsche's driver...LOL

majin ssj eric

Or at least thinks he is....

savage

there is only one way to settle this now...

Porsche vs Nissan showdown at the ring. 5 cars for each manufacturer direct from random dealers that way everything is stock. Each manufacturer only has to bring their 5 best drivers.

love099

from: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=136628

Costco

who cares. I would NEVER get a GT-R over any manual 997, a Z06, or a ZR1, or a Viper, ACR or not, even if I was the one making the payments. Plenty of people also feel the opposite. Additional testing is only going to appease the fanboys. That's why the GT-R fanboys have their fingers crossed and their anuses clenched waiting for the V-Spec.

Once again, R34 > R35

srika

thanks, yeah if I was in the market for that type of car - which sadly I am not in right now - I would be seriously considering the Z06, ZR1 (). I would even not mind a 996 Turbo.

srika

shoot add the 997GT3 to that list..

iTimmy

If anyone is going to weather the storm with minimal damage, I think it is Porsche, they really seem to have their shit together.

mrmako

They sell to a certain demographic (I make $100K plus a year crowd), so I think they can position themselves quite well.

"pull up while the neighbor's house is being foreclosed". That is funny, but true. If the idiot next door didn't fall for the adjustable rate mortgage, he wouldn't be in the mess he's in. He should have bought what he was truly qualified to buy.

Fishy

"Porsche's target market may still be able to afford the cars but most likely are "reacting to the fact that it may be inappropriate to pull up in a new Porsche when their neighbor's house is being foreclosed."

This is an absolutely retarded statement. Neighbors are generally in the same target market as far as income is concerned.

Here's a better statement:
"A considerable number of people in Porsche's target market are having their house foreclosed."

That is, Porsche's target market are people who overextended themselves by living beyond their means.

mrmako

Bearcat94

The *well over* $100k crowd maybe. I *wish* $100k was in their target market. Maybe DINKs, but not "regular" families.


For a "typical" family, $100k - $150k isn't even close to Porsche territory. Unless you want your house foreclosed; Or if you actually consider the Boxster to be a real Porsche.

mrmako

Corrected.......And you're not living in the metro SF/LA/DC area.....

Babnik

You would be surprised what percentage of their income some morons are willing to spend on their car. There are many people who make 35k who live with their parents and finance new 70k cars.

Maximized

A Porsche driver that felt more comfortable driving the GTR given the conditions present.

I like how you "conspiracy theorists" come out of the woodwork and question the test. If you think you can perform a better test, prove it. I bet most posting in this thread wouldn't break 9 minutes in the conditions present during this test.

Fishy

Umm, being comfortable driving a car doesn't mean being fast.

Are you talking about the Porsche guys questioning Nissan's GT-R test?

Most people who know cars would realize that the GT-R would be at a disadvantage in the conditions present during this test.

But then again, most people would be faster in the GT-R than the 911. And perhaps that is what really matters. If only professional Porsche drivers have the skill and guts to take the 911 to its limits, then that's just magazine racing isn't it?

Maximized

This guy is a professional driver, he was driving it fast. If you think you can do better, get a GTR and run it around the Ring. Then we can all scrutinize your lap times and get a good laugh.

My comment was directed towards you. Read your comments in your posts.


Okay, tell me why a street tired AWD car would be at a disadvantage to a RWD car w/ rear biased weight on R-compounds driven a cold & damp track? Did you even read the article?

Fishy

Ah, the childish rebuttal: "Let's see you do better!". Your debating skills are weak.

Yep I read the article. The problem with the GT-R is its weight. In anything but dry conditions, it can't utilize its AWD to the fullest in the turns.

It will lose traction and slide more than the lighter GT2 and lose its great cornering advantage. It needs to run tight fast lines and power out of turns to make up time over the GT2 because the GT2 will blow it away on the fast straights.

You can look at the track and conditions to see which car would be faster. The GTR would win in a dry technical course while the GT2 would win on damp high speed courses.

For the Ring on that day? Like I said, if Chris Harris was more familiar with the GT-R and drove it harder than you can with a borrowed private car, then he should have gone faster in the GT-R.

So basically, the 911's are more at home running on the high speed ovals than doing all that turning stuff. People should race them in the NASCAR series and leave the real road racing to better handling cars.

fsttyms1

This right here tells me you know nothing. AWD in these conditions are going to help it out far more than the RWD of the porsche.

And your last statement makes you a even larger moron.

MaximaPower

only solution:
lets get the STIG to take both out on the N-ring same day

nokiaman

That's the most foolish statement I've read in a while.

nokiaman

You'd think he'd know since he knows so much.

black label

Great News!!!
I go back to work for them on Monday.

BTW I don't think $200K a year is even close for the majority of 911 customers, they use figures like 1.5 mil to describe their income.

What I saw as last summer wore on was the people looking for big ticket items, 911 Turbos, Cayenne Turbos, people looking for a GT2, they were still their in full force. The people looking for Caymans, Boxsters, Cayennes and more basic 911's like Carrera S just weren't there anymore.