Porsche: Sales, Marketing, and Financial News
#323
Senior Moderator
holy. fawk.
Yums, I nominate this as your best post, ever. Bravo.
Yums, I nominate this as your best post, ever. Bravo.
#330
Senior Moderator
what's everyone's favorite car(s)?
for me it's this one - the 911GT1 race car in the back:
followed by the GT1 street car.
I think these are the mad baddest Porsches ever made.
for me it's this one - the 911GT1 race car in the back:
followed by the GT1 street car.
I think these are the mad baddest Porsches ever made.
#331
The sizzle in the Steak
Germany FTW...they have the best Auto Museums.
#332
Engineer
wow... I am definitely going the next time I visit my cousins in Switzerland. This is worth the drive up to Germany from their place...
#334
Suzuka Master
My idea of heaven...Thanks Yumchah. I love it.
#338
I disagree with unanimity
iTrader: (2)
2009 Nissan GTR vs 2009 Porsche 911 GT2 - At the 'Ring
It was a throwaway statement, but once it was reported and widely quoted, it caused quite a controversy. Oh, how we all love a tempest in a teapot.
It went thus. August Achleitner, the demure chief of the Porsche 911 range, was speaking to an Australian Web site when he was questioned about Nissan's claimed 7-minute, 29-second lap of the Nürburgring Nordschleife in a new GT-R. His response was pure nitroglycerin. He reported that Porsche had indeed taken a GT-R to the 'Ring, but that its test driver could only manage a 7-minute, 54-second lap. On the same day, a 911 Turbo and a 911 GT2 ran 7:38 and 7:34, respectively - slightly outside the times previously set by test driver Walter Röhrl, but only by a few seconds. Achleitner then suggested that the only way the GT-R ran the claimed time was using special sticky tires. We'll never know if he uttered that last point wearing an impish grin, but he must have known that such comments would prove explosive among the Porsche and Nissan communities. Sure enough, since the story broke last year, the Web has been alight with claim and counterclaim. In its initial riposte, Nissan offered Porsche, and any other car manufacturer that might be interested, a demonstration of how to extract the best time from the GT-R. Meeeow.
Should Herr Achleitner have opened his mouth? Probably not. Was Nissan's response a little childish? Possibly. Why do we care? Because it has prompted two car manufacturers to start bitch-slapping each other and caused one of the most interesting car debates of our time, namely - is the new $77,840 GT-R really faster around the Nürburgring than the $194,950 pinnacle of Porsche's sports car lineup?
Now, it just so happened that a fortunate confluence of events landed on my lap. I race a Porsche 911 Cup car at the Nürburgring in a series called the VLN, and the day after the final round of the 2008 championship, I was doing a track day with some friends. With this in mind, I asked Porsche if it might lend me a GT2 and phoned a friend who owns a Nissan GT-R to see if I could borrow it. They both said yes, and it looked like we had a story from the gods. But then, when the Monday after the race came, it rained. And after it had rained buckets, it rained some more. And by encouraging the oil that had been deposited all the way around the 12.9-mile lap by an incontinent BMW M3 during Saturday qualifying to reappear from the pavement, a lethal emulsion was formed. In places, you couldn't stand on the track. We didn't drive either car for the whole day. Redefine your personal definition of the word frustration, because it can't possibly compete with the combination of a Porsche 911 GT2, a Nissan GT-R, the Nordschleife, and unusable track conditions. Still, it gave me time to consider the prospect of two cars that could easily carry 160 mph into certain sections of guardrail, neither of them fitted with anything better at restraining a rapidly decelerating human torso than a standard road-car seatbelt. No harnesses - not even a partial roll cage in the case of the GT-R....
It went thus. August Achleitner, the demure chief of the Porsche 911 range, was speaking to an Australian Web site when he was questioned about Nissan's claimed 7-minute, 29-second lap of the Nürburgring Nordschleife in a new GT-R. His response was pure nitroglycerin. He reported that Porsche had indeed taken a GT-R to the 'Ring, but that its test driver could only manage a 7-minute, 54-second lap. On the same day, a 911 Turbo and a 911 GT2 ran 7:38 and 7:34, respectively - slightly outside the times previously set by test driver Walter Röhrl, but only by a few seconds. Achleitner then suggested that the only way the GT-R ran the claimed time was using special sticky tires. We'll never know if he uttered that last point wearing an impish grin, but he must have known that such comments would prove explosive among the Porsche and Nissan communities. Sure enough, since the story broke last year, the Web has been alight with claim and counterclaim. In its initial riposte, Nissan offered Porsche, and any other car manufacturer that might be interested, a demonstration of how to extract the best time from the GT-R. Meeeow.
Should Herr Achleitner have opened his mouth? Probably not. Was Nissan's response a little childish? Possibly. Why do we care? Because it has prompted two car manufacturers to start bitch-slapping each other and caused one of the most interesting car debates of our time, namely - is the new $77,840 GT-R really faster around the Nürburgring than the $194,950 pinnacle of Porsche's sports car lineup?
Now, it just so happened that a fortunate confluence of events landed on my lap. I race a Porsche 911 Cup car at the Nürburgring in a series called the VLN, and the day after the final round of the 2008 championship, I was doing a track day with some friends. With this in mind, I asked Porsche if it might lend me a GT2 and phoned a friend who owns a Nissan GT-R to see if I could borrow it. They both said yes, and it looked like we had a story from the gods. But then, when the Monday after the race came, it rained. And after it had rained buckets, it rained some more. And by encouraging the oil that had been deposited all the way around the 12.9-mile lap by an incontinent BMW M3 during Saturday qualifying to reappear from the pavement, a lethal emulsion was formed. In places, you couldn't stand on the track. We didn't drive either car for the whole day. Redefine your personal definition of the word frustration, because it can't possibly compete with the combination of a Porsche 911 GT2, a Nissan GT-R, the Nordschleife, and unusable track conditions. Still, it gave me time to consider the prospect of two cars that could easily carry 160 mph into certain sections of guardrail, neither of them fitted with anything better at restraining a rapidly decelerating human torso than a standard road-car seatbelt. No harnesses - not even a partial roll cage in the case of the GT-R....
Porsche 997 GT2......7 min, 49 sec
Nissan GT-R............7 min, 56 sec
Full Article--------> HERE
#339
Senior Moderator
Can we maybe say R compound and a tuned motor for Nissan's claims
#340
Senior Moderator
Giving up only 6.9 seconds to the GT2 on the Nordschleife yet weighing some 600lbs more, to Nissan. Love that GT-R more with each read.
#341
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#342
Meh.... I don't care if the GT-R ran a sub 7-second Ring time. I wouldn't be able to stand looking at it every day. If I did I'd have to back into the garage every day so I could look at the sexy rear while avoiding that abomination of a front end
#345
Senior Moderator
#347
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So the article proves that this guy who drove both cars could not achieve 7:29 or time the GT-R faster than the GT2. Does this prove that Nissan falsified their claim? or that they used a ringer or special tires? I wouldn't say so.
All it proves is THIS guy, with limited driving experience with both cars (far from the experience of a factory test drive) drove this certain GT2 better than this certain GT-R. It does nothing to disprove that Nissan was able to achieve 7:29 on a stock GT-R. Unless there is evidence or facts of "falsification", such as LYING about the time, or LYING about the tires, or LYING about the car being "stock", no one will ever know.
All it proves is THIS guy, with limited driving experience with both cars (far from the experience of a factory test drive) drove this certain GT2 better than this certain GT-R. It does nothing to disprove that Nissan was able to achieve 7:29 on a stock GT-R. Unless there is evidence or facts of "falsification", such as LYING about the time, or LYING about the tires, or LYING about the car being "stock", no one will ever know.
#348
#349
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So the article proves that this guy who drove both cars could not achieve 7:29 or time the GT-R faster than the GT2. Does this prove that Nissan falsified their claim? or that they used a ringer or special tires? I wouldn't say so.
All it proves is THIS guy, with limited driving experience with both cars (far from the experience of a factory test drive) drove this certain GT2 better than this certain GT-R. It does nothing to disprove that Nissan was able to achieve 7:29 on a stock GT-R. Unless there is evidence or facts of "falsification", such as LYING about the time, or LYING about the tires, or LYING about the car being "stock", no one will ever know.
All it proves is THIS guy, with limited driving experience with both cars (far from the experience of a factory test drive) drove this certain GT2 better than this certain GT-R. It does nothing to disprove that Nissan was able to achieve 7:29 on a stock GT-R. Unless there is evidence or facts of "falsification", such as LYING about the time, or LYING about the tires, or LYING about the car being "stock", no one will ever know.
There is no doubt in my mind that Nissan ran with a ringer. No one has come close to Nissan's "claimed" time.
#351
The article you posted is just a re-write of one in Driver's Republic. Go back a few pages and enjoying the flaming debates
#352
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Chris Harris is a pro driver with experience racing at the Ring with extensive experience in Porsche cars. He is not your average auto journalist with a few track days and a driving school under their belt.
There is no doubt in my mind that Nissan ran with a ringer. No one has come close to Nissan's "claimed" time.
There is no doubt in my mind that Nissan ran with a ringer. No one has come close to Nissan's "claimed" time.
Whether Nissan ran a ringer or not, who knows? Did they run the ringer on purpose? Maybe the car was a ringer just as maybe you and your friend both drag your exact same cars down at the track and his car consistently beats your car...did he "buy a ringer" on purpose?
What I'm saying is that there's no evidence to say without a doubt that there was any impropriety going on when nissan the 7:29...so until someone actually finds that same car or someone inside Nissan decides to speak up, no on knows.
#353
Senior Moderator
Yeah, but how much experience did he have driving the GT-R? As much experience as a Nissan test driver? And like someone said before, how impartial is it that an experienced "Porsche" driver did this test?
Whether Nissan ran a ringer or not, who knows? Did they run the ringer on purpose? Maybe the car was a ringer just as maybe you and your friend both drag your exact same cars down at the track and his car consistently beats your car...did he "buy a ringer" on purpose?
What I'm saying is that there's no evidence to say without a doubt that there was any impropriety going on when nissan the 7:29...so until someone actually finds that same car or someone inside Nissan decides to speak up, no on knows.
Whether Nissan ran a ringer or not, who knows? Did they run the ringer on purpose? Maybe the car was a ringer just as maybe you and your friend both drag your exact same cars down at the track and his car consistently beats your car...did he "buy a ringer" on purpose?
What I'm saying is that there's no evidence to say without a doubt that there was any impropriety going on when nissan the 7:29...so until someone actually finds that same car or someone inside Nissan decides to speak up, no on knows.
#354
Senior Moderator
...still a VERY awesome and VERY capable GT car nonetheless, costing FAR LESS than just about every competitor in this segment save for the Z06 (and Viper SRT10 if one excludes the markup). That said, I can't wait to see the Spec V.
#355
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Why is anyone surprised, this is nissan we're talking about. Id bet next month's mortgage it was a ringer. This co. lives and breathes hp and speed, even if the performance numbers rarely match the amount of power the engine is supposedly putting out.
#356
given the problems with the car i would say who cares.....at least you can take a vette, viper or porchse and repeatedly launch the car and not worry about the trans grenading
#357
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Yeah, but how much experience did he have driving the GT-R? As much experience as a Nissan test driver? And like someone said before, how impartial is it that an experienced "Porsche" driver did this test?
Whether Nissan ran a ringer or not, who knows? Did they run the ringer on purpose? Maybe the car was a ringer just as maybe you and your friend both drag your exact same cars down at the track and his car consistently beats your car...did he "buy a ringer" on purpose?
What I'm saying is that there's no evidence to say without a doubt that there was any impropriety going on when nissan the 7:29...so until someone actually finds that same car or someone inside Nissan decides to speak up, no on knows.
Whether Nissan ran a ringer or not, who knows? Did they run the ringer on purpose? Maybe the car was a ringer just as maybe you and your friend both drag your exact same cars down at the track and his car consistently beats your car...did he "buy a ringer" on purpose?
What I'm saying is that there's no evidence to say without a doubt that there was any impropriety going on when nissan the 7:29...so until someone actually finds that same car or someone inside Nissan decides to speak up, no on knows.
The GTR isn't all that it's made out to be. As time goes by, I think this is becoming more apparent.
#358
Senior Moderator
haha..
#359
Burning Brakes
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experienced porsche driver driving a Clubspec GT2 vs "borrowed friend's" GTR with bridgestones instead of optional dunlops
i wonder why the GT2 was quicker
and if this test was accurate at all, i'm not impressed by the clubspec GT2 being only 7 secs faster than the GTR....especially since the driver probably didn't push his friend's GTR that hard nor did he have much experience behind the wheel of a GTR
i wonder why the GT2 was quicker
and if this test was accurate at all, i'm not impressed by the clubspec GT2 being only 7 secs faster than the GTR....especially since the driver probably didn't push his friend's GTR that hard nor did he have much experience behind the wheel of a GTR
#360
Punk Rocker
(Numbers from Edmunds' test of their long termer AFTER reprogram with VDC fully activated)