phile

Here's the thing, when you see those ads in the newspaper, they're just teasers. Furthermore, Acura doesn't advertise for buy, they always offer lease rates. And, how do you know those discounts are coming straight from the factory, rather than from the dealers themselves? Honda has resisted 0% financing, even though everyone else out there is doing it, why would you think they'd discount the RL just because it's not selling well? They're not producing it by the thousands, for one thing, and it would hurt resale, something that Honda has traditionally been very good at preventing.

Junkster

Interesting... I figured the 6 was long in size, but not that much more then the market average.

How long is the new 5 series, that thing looks long to me.

Junkster, who has gotten somewhat used to the 5 design, but the 7 still looks ugly as sin

1SICKLEX

We don't know that yet. Not with the GS and M35 offering AWD. As stated, a V-8 A8 with AWD can be had under 50k!
New A6 is larger. Current model is 192 inches long. I said luxury. Acura knows what it is doing with near luxury and under near luxury with the TL and TSX.

BMW has stated the 5 is their breadwinner. It's the most profitable model and brings tremendous prestige to the brand. I can go with the 3 arguement though.

I think the one-price is a good strategy for ACura. It's worked wonders for them since 1999.

9 years old. Check this out. 40% of the RL is old LEgend parts. So we are talking 15 years here with some things.
There is not doubt the new RL is superior in EVERY SINGLE WAY POSSIBLE!

1SICKLEX

Have u seen RL re-sale in the newspaper. Too many people go by Kelly and Blue Book. Look in the paper, see what people are REALLy selling their cars for. That gives you a much better general idea of what re-sale is for the car.(in your area)
I know the personel at one of the local dealers here. My parents know the owner. I am talking Atlanta here.
But even if in LA, Junkster is getting 7k off, 3 thousand miles away, we are getting 8k off. in Atlanta

biker

191 in

Biker, who's researching like mad in the background.

biker

This is what I'm saying - even if the new RL was listed at $47K and sells at list people will end up paying 10K more for the new RL over the old one.

Junkster

Your right, newspaper ads are teasers. But the 7k incentive total is the truth, from a dealer source... I wonder if the oracle can validate this for us.

Most incentives come from the factory. The only way one dealership can offer more incentive and price cuts then others is by being a high-seller for the maker. With franchise fees as well as the total cost of running a dealership, they cannot possible offer incentives on their own, it would be nearly suicide.

Honda doesn't do 0% because they can't. Honda financing is not linked to a major bank, and the maker is not a financially large company that can offer such financing. Subaru works with Chase Manahatton to offer their 0%. Ford has their in-house financing. Toyota also has in-house (in fact, Toyota offers home loans in Japan). Honda's total asset isn't large enough, and they are trying to stay independent in their financing... just remember what happened to Mitsu when they went down such a road with the help of Chrysler financing.

But it's also the fact that Honda doesn't need 0% to sell their cars as well. The Accord is the best selling car in the NA market, if you exclude fleet sales. The only model in the Honda lineup that has sell-issues is the Civic and they offer pretty good incentives on that as it is.

Junkster, who thinks Acuras don't need special financing (excluding the RL)

1SICKLEX

Okay, I found AWD M35 base price and features
$43,800.00

Infiniti M Concept Highlights
Highlights

270+ horsepower, 3.5-liter V6 engine
18-inch aluminum wheels
Sunroof, leather seats, solar eclipse gauges, voice recognition, Bluetooth™ wireless connectivity
Intelligent key with push button ignition
Rosewood interior trim
Intelligent all wheel drive (ATTESA ET-S)


5-Speed automatic transmission with manual shift mode
Double-wishbone front suspension; multi-link rear suspension; front and rear stabilizer bars
4-wheel power-assisted vented disc brakes w/ anti-lock braking system (ABS) with Brake Assist (BA) and Electronic Brake Force Distribution (EBD)
Halogen headlamps with automatic on/off and variable-off timer
Driver and front-passenger supplemental airbags (featuring Advanced Airbag Technology); Front seat side-impact supplemental airbags; Front and rear seat supplemental side curtain airbag
Tire pressure monitor with location display
10-way power driver's seat w/ power lumbar adjustment and 2 position memory
160 Watt, 6-speaker AM/FM audio system with in-dash 6-disc CD autochanger with MP3 playback capability
Automatic dual-zone climate control
Vehicle Information System (VIS) with 7-inch color display

Journey Package $2750
Click to select this option. Technology Package (requires Journey Package) $4000
Click to select this option. Premium Package (includes Journey/Technology Packages and Infiniti DVD Mobile Entertainment System) $10500
Choose Options
Click to select this option. DVD Entertainment System $1500
Click to select this option. Infiniti Navigation System $1800
Click to select this option. 18-inch Chrome Wheels $1000
Click to select this option. Aerodynamic Body Kit $1300
Click to select this option. Aerodynamic Rear Spoiler $300
Click to select this option. Satellite Radio $350
This option is included with your selections. Rosewood Trim Incl.
Click to select this option. 18-inch Full-Size Spare Wheel/Tire $180

phile

Show me. Use Edmunds to locate a used RL, find out its depreciation, compare that with a car with a similar price when new, and then come back and talk to me and we'll talk about the RL's resale value. I'm 2 steps ahead of you, but I'm not going to do the work for you. Show me.

Junkster

Can I get that in metric?



Thanks for all the dimensions... man, I'm lazy today.

Junkster, who notes that it's raining in D-town and I had a huge burrito for lunch

1SICKLEX

$50,550.00 WIth NAV for the M35 AWD. So 1k more than the RL.
There is a 10k package, for a 54k price total! includes
• Heated and power reclining rear seats
• Rear passenger controls for climate, audio and rear sunshade
• 18-inch Run-flat tires
• Power rear sunshade

That is too much!! Wow.

Wow, I just loaded it out 57k! For an AWD M35. That is nuts!

phile

I'm just trying to tell a certain person that the RL, despite its age, was still selling well. He then goes on and on about resale and discounts, so I had to send him on his way. I don't doubt your friend's incentive, but the official word from Acura was that no major discount for the RL, and the reason was for keeping resale high. Now that may have changed recently with the new RL's introduciton drawing near, but it was not the case a few months ago.

1SICKLEX

1SICKLEX, who is debating with someone with no intentions of buying any of these cars...

phile

As if you are , wow that was brilliant.

Now go and do your research. I'll be waiting, troll.

1SICKLEX

I can't build the new A6 on their site. It's not ready yet.
A6 3.2
Starting at $41,620*
The all-new A6 3.2 performs with uncommon vigor when fitted with the powerful but economical V6 engine with FSI® Direct Injection. With 255 hp, the first ever Audi FSI engine in North America goes from 0-60 mph in just 7.1 seconds. Available Fall 2004.

A6 4.2
Starting at $51,220*
The all-new A6 4.2 features a powerful but lightweight V8. Developing 335 hp and 310 lb-ft of torque, the 4.2 liter engine accelerates from 0 to 60 mph in just 6.1 seconds — and powers onward to an electronically governed maximum speed of 130 mph.** Available Fall 2004.

phile

Focus, grasshopper, focus...used RL, find depreciation, compare. End of task. Go.

Junkster

Official word was that Mitsu was doing pretty well... then the scandals just piled on them.

Carmakers never tell the whole truth, let's agree upon that.

BTW, you know whose the worst in reporting their profit margins and such to their stockholders?

VW... they have been so bad of late, that some stockholders have asked for an independent source to got through the books at VW. VW stands by their numbers, but most analysts have already concluded that they aren't telling the whole story.

The best source, I find, for getting financial info on cars is the financing peeps at the dealership. Most aren't on any major commission as salary, so if you are frank with them, they don't hesitate to tell you everything.

Junkster, who heard Nissan is gonna start some aggresive financing soon

biker

I'm pretty sure virtually no one in this thread would buy the new RL (and not because it's not a good car)

1SICKLEX

I quote myself numbnuts.I acknowledged it is not selling bad considering. All u want to do is argue with me. Why not just go home and fuck the troll your with. And leave me alone, some of us are trying to have a discussion.

Junkster

hey, I might be one lottery ticket away from getting an RL...



Naw, I would get something a bit more 'lux' if I won a lottery.

Junkster, who is sooooooooooo far from owning such a car

phile

But you're in completely different domains. Acura telling its dealers not to heavily discount the RL is not the same as Mitsubishi saying they're fine when the evidence shows otherwise. You can't compare what your friend's discount from just now against something Acura sent out officially a few months ahead. Look at the current Odyssey, it was still demanding waiting lists despite new competition. And then suddenly they did an about front and was giving discount. Because a new one was coming and because it was no longer competitive.

I'm not going to agree with you about the RL, I know what I read.

1SICKLEX

STS V6 Luxury Performance $49,590.00

I can't find AWD...

phile

Take your own advice. I notice you haven't done as I told...where's your bravado now? Suddenly you don't have shit to back you up, and then you to try to change the subject. I called you troll like twice already, didn't see you hitting back then, did I? Troll.

1SICKLEX

And let me say a car stealing sales from EVERYONE. That 300C. I think it's a great car. And b/c of it's very expensive looking styling, it's getting all sorts of buyers. V-8 and AWD under 40k. That is a bargain.

phile

And just an FYI...we are the ones having a discussion. You're the one coming in here trolling.

Junkster

Where did you get that the discount was just now from what I've written? Actually, I heard this about four months or so ago... I remember this because we talked to each other while at someone's wedding.

I guess my example wasn't perfect, but you get my drift, right? The fact that large companies won't always divulge the truth in it's entirety.

Junkster, who saw the new Oddy last night

phile

But what's there to hide?? Acura stated no major discount for the RL. Who knows what they meant by "major," perhaps they had a cutoff of 3K?

Junkster

That thing is a freak of nature for the car market... In all major markets, from NA, europe and Asia, they are only giving it more hype... Euros love that gansta lean look, Asians consider it the return of Detroit power and coolness... it's selling like hotcakes here in the states...

It's marketing wonder, I tell ya...

Junkster, who thinks we need to stay on the RL topic though

biker

Getting back to this thread - I think the all inclusive strategy that may have worked at the lower end of the scale might hurt the RL a bit in this category.

1SICKLEX

Why R U still here? I thought I said go home and fuck the troll. You have added nothing to this conversation. Like u always do.

phile

Oh, OMG, this, this coming from someone who always gets accused of adding nothing to the conversations. Hilarious.

PS. Why do you come here?

biker

Talk about perfect use of recycled MB technology.

biker

This has turned into a PW Friday thread with a little side :gheyfight:

phile

Hellooo...we don't do PW Fridays no mo

biker

Just for grins I looked up the stats for this thread, OMG look who's the PW:

User Name Posts
biker 46
phile 42
justinjsw 31
1SICKLEX 28
Junkster 23
gocubsgo55 18
ccheung 17
Dan Martin 10
ClutchPerformer 10

Junkster

The major ones that the public knows about are the customer discount and dealer incentive... there are added incentives for the dealership on top of what they are stating. How else do you think they make profit when they start giving you all the incentives that you are recieving?

When I bought my Scoobie, my friend John showed me the dealer cost of the car on his database. I was a whole grand under invoice due to the cash-back... I asked how he could make any profit off this sale, after all the incentives.

He proceeded to show me that Subaru offered nearly 2,500 in dealer incentives for selling off the 04 Legacy. That's where his profits for the dealership was coming from.

These things are prevalent in all automakers, so Honda wouldn't be outside the norm on this. Even MB and BMW accept these practices.

Junkster, who doesn't want to argue with phile for the sake of arguing

Junkster

it's kinda sad... but that's what the mods seem to want, and seeing as that I'm just a lowly member, who am I to argue?

Junkster, who likes discussions as long it stays civil

Junkster

You euro-whore!!!

Junkster, who wonders when the launch date of the RL is.

phile

That's not my point, though. The current RL has been a lame duck for the past 7 years, let's just give it the benefit of the doubt that in its first year, it actually created some buzz. So as sales waned, it'll obviously need discounts - or, Acura would go with the CL route and just discontinue it altogether. But when someone tells me to look at so and so discounts in a major magazine for the RL, and I know Acura did not authorize it, at least not a few months ago, I'm not going to agree. I know what was written, I know what Acura's rationale was for doing it, and that's where I'm standing. All this stuff that you're bringing up really has nothing to do with the initial point. It's obvious to me that they'll make a profit, one way or another, there's no way they're going to let us in on all their secrets. But that's not what I was bringing up.

Junkster

Sorry, then I totally missed the initial point you were focusing on... not being a jerk, seriously, what was it?

Oh, they will still make a profit, don't get the wrong impression from what I've been saying. No carmaker ever sells cars at a loss.

Junkster, who notes that GM makes at least 10k for each suburban sold