AZuser

Still with that huh?

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Yea....they are supposed to be great looking with excellent interior design and quality.....great powertrains they are high-tech, efficient, and powerful, they offer lots of options and packages for people to choose from, they have I4, V6, V8, and even V10....6AT, DSG, and even 8AT...and the list goes on and on.....and some also say they are very reliable....makes me why would people even consider buying Acura models......

I guess he's referring to mid to higher end of the A3, A4, and Q5...as in fully loaded models?

Very true.....I'm not a fan of the G but the M looks really good IMO. It's not controversial but still looks unique.

pttl

They cost less pound for pound.

YEH

Not only that, Hyundai's incentive spending is less than half of that for Honda.

This pretty much where Sonata and Elantra monthly sales will be since their Alabama plant at 110% of capacity still can't build enough of them to meet US demand, nevermind Canada.

And then there's this...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...-bmw-cars.html

Legend2TL

+1 Thx TSX69 for the work

SSFTSX

I know these numbers. Fact of matter is that Hyundi-Kia failed to surpass Honda-Nissan despite having much newer line up and that also includes Hybrids, 8 speed transmission, DI engines across the line up.


Just wait when newer Altima-Sentra-Xetra-Pathfinder-Armada comes out. with all new engines, transmission and hybrid technology and recover to certain extent from earth quake.
Similar case will be with Honda. if they make next Accord right.



Nissan has alot more growth potential than Hyundai-Kia and it shows in there revenues.
Nissan quaterly sales are $30B. total $120b a year.


http://community.nasdaq.com/News/201...storyid=120395
Sales in the quarter went up 10.9% to ¥2.33 trillion ($30.27 billion) from the prior year. Operating profit scaled up 3.6% to ¥118.1 billion ($1.54 billion).

Hyundi is $68B sales a year firm. Most of its sales are low end.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...077407368.html


It means Nissan is selling more high priced vehicles in world. and Nissan is alot more diversified. it does not depend on its home Market Japan to extent Hyundai-Kia depends on Korea.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

That makes so much sense. Yes.

Hapa DC5

LoL Hyundai doesn't have the capacity, dealer network,to surpass a much more established Hyundai. They are already running over capacity to fill orders.

Belzebutt

I'm still perplexed by the BMW vs. Audi numbers. Almost every Audi model now beats BMW in comparison, they have arguably nicer interiors and nowadays the exteriors are as sexy/sporty. I guess it takes a while for the name recognition to catch up.

SSFTSX

Remember Nissan went bankrupt in 1990s. so it means does not have money either for considerable period of time for further investments on same scale as Toyota. and now they had Japanese earthquake.
But still they managed to flood the place with Altimas/Maximas.
Maxima is selling at more than twice the rate of Genesis.
Altima is selling twice the rate of Sonata and that without Hybrid.

Only weak point is Sentra. It is one redesign away from beating Elantra.



I dont agree with list fully as by revenue Honda is still bigger than Hyundai-Kia combined.
VW should be No1. (More than $200b revenue with $20b profits)
Toyota No 2. Renault-Nissan No3.




http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/201...ticle-1.103137
Here is a list of the world's biggest car groups based on units sold in 2011.

1. General Motors regained the top spot in 2011, selling 9.03 million vehicles. Chevrolet, Opel-Vauxhall, Buick, Cadillac and GMC are its main brands. GM has a global staff of 202,000 people and reached sales of $150.3 billion (111.33 billion euros) in 2011.

2. Germany's Volkswagen is Europe's biggest car group and has stated its ambition to unseat GM as the world's number one by 2018. In 2011, it sold more than 8.0 million vehicles for the first time, selling 8.3 million.

Top brands are Volkswagen, Audi, Seat, Skoda, Bugatti, Lamborghini and a large stake in Porsche.
The group employs 400,000 people and reached sales of 159.3 billion euros last year.

3. Franco-Japanese alliance Renault-Nissan sold 8.03 million vehicles in 2011, if sales at Russia's Avtovaz, 25-percent owned by Renault, are included.
Renault alone employs 128,300 people worldwide and posted sales of 42.63 billion euros in 2011. Nissan, 43.8-percent owned by Renault, has 155,000 employees and has forecast sales of 9.450 trillion yen (87 billion euros, $117.4 billion) for its current fiscal year which ends March 31.

4. Hurt by the earthquake and tsunami disaster, Japan's Toyota sold 7.95 million vehicles in 2011, losing its position as the world's biggest carmaker which it held from 2008 to 2010.
Toyota, which also makes the Lexus, employs 317,700 employees worldwide and estimates sales of 18.3 trillion yen at the end of the fiscal year in March.

5. South Korea's Hyundai and Kia, its 39-percent owned partner, sold 6.6 million vehicles last year.
Hyundai posted sales in 2011 of $69 billion and Kia $39 billion.

6. The second largest carmaker in the US, Ford sold 5.7 million vehicles last year. It employs 164,000 people and posted sales of $136.3 billion in 2011.

7. The new alliance of Italy's Fiat and the US-based Chrysler together sold slightly fewer than 4.0 million vehicles in 2011. The alliance aims for sales of 6 million units in 2014.
Fiat posted sales in 2011 of 59.56 billion euros, which included seven months of sales by Chrysler. Fiat employs 190,000 and Chrysler more than 52,000.

8. France's PSA Peugeot Citroen sold 3.5 million vehicles in 2011. It posted sales of 59.9 billion euros last year and employs 205,000 people.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/201...#ixzz1o5dzF8lH

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

Did you major in Trollogy?

Hapa DC5

Sorry SSFOBTSXed out for a moment.

Anyways, SSFTSX why are you still harping on how bad Hyundai/Kia is? Next year you'll be singing their praises and force me to dig up posts of you dissing them such when I call you out on it and you deny it. Am I right?

TSX69

CR-V Still Sales King of CrossOver Hill

With February and its extra day out of the way the compact and midsize crossover/SUV sales race is heating up. While the compact crossover/SUV sales chart didn’t see much change with the 2012 Honda CR-V retaining its 1st place spot, the midsize crossover/SUV list saw much jockeying and shuffling around. Though the Jeep Grand Cherokee kept its top spot, the Honda Pilot was a new entry that bumped the rival Toyota Highlander out of the top 5.

1) Honda CR-V – 24,759 Sold/43,719 YTD – Unchanged
For the 2nd month in the row Honda’s CR-V reigns over its rivals as the top-selling compact crossover/SUV in the United States. Thanks to the continual roll-out of the 2012 CR-V, Honda’s compact crossover was up 24.5% year-over year, with 24,759 sold in February. That brings the CR-V’s year-to-date total to 43,719 – impressive considering we’re only 2 months into the year.

2) Ford Escape – 18,666 Sold/35,925 YTD – Unchanged
Sitting pretty in 2nd place again is the Ford Escape. As was the case last month, the impending roll-out of the 2013 Escape is likely helping boost sales as dealers look to clear inventory for the new model. Escape sales were only up 3.7% last month. With 18,666 Escapes sold in February, Ford’s year-to-date total comes in at 35,935.

3) Chevrolet Equinox – 17,851 Sold/31,513 YTD – Unchanged
Taking bronze in last month’s sales race was the Chevy Equinox again. Equinox sales continue to grow steadily; last month sales were up 15.7% year-over-year, bringing its monthly sales total to 17,851 – just shy of its Dearborn rival. Chevrolet has sold 31,513 Equinoxes thus far in 2012.

4) Nissan Rogue – 13,423 Sold/23,327 TYD – Unchanged
The Nissan Rogue remained in 4th place for February’s compact crossover/SUV sales. Rogue sales jumped 17.5% versus the same period last year, helping Nissan to move 13,423 Rogues. Nissan has sold 23,327 Rogues so far this year.

5) Toyota RAV4 – 12,677 Sold/22,496 YTD – Unchanged
Rounding out the top 5 for the 2nd month in a row is the Toyota RAV4. Toyota managed to sell 12,677 RAV4s last month, which was only a 0.9% year-over-year increase. While Toyota’s 22,496 year-to-date RAV4 sales give it a nice cushion over the next closest contender, if sales continue to stay largely flat it isn’t conceivable to imagine the RAV4 being bumped out of the top 5.

1 to Watch:

Jeep Wrangler – 9319 Sold/17,215 YTD
One of the last true old-school body-on-frame SUVs still available, the Wrangler’s unashamedly back-to-basics nature didn’t keep consumers from buying this adventuresome icon. Although it didn’t approach the same numbers as the more suburban-oriented crossovers, its surprisingly strong sales performance and 22.0% year-over-year growth proves there’s still a market for the original SUV.

Midsize Crossover/SUVs

1) Jeep Grand Cherokee – 12,724 Sold/23,407 YTD – Unchanged
For the 2nd month in a row the Jeep Grand Cherokee was the best-selling midsize crossover/SUV in the U.S. The 12,724 Grand Cherokees sold allowed the Jeep to be the only midsizer to keep the same spot it had last month. Grand Cherokee sales were up a staggering 46.8% versus the same period last year. With 23,407 Grand Cherokees sold so far this year, Jeep has built up a pretty sizeable – but not insurmountable – lead over its next closest competitor

2) Ford Edge – 10,535 Sold/18,005 YTD – Up 1
There was a bit of inter-company rivalry going on last month for the number 2 slot, with the Ford Edge ultimately taking silver over the Ford Explorer. Ford sold 10,535 Edges last month, a 3.9% increase year-over-year, bringing the sporty crossover’s year-to-date total to 18,005.

3) Ford Explorer – 10,440 Sold/20,406 YTD – Down 1
The Ford Explorer got the short end of the stick last month, being beaten out of its 2nd place slot by its Edge stablemate. Ford’s 10,440 Explorers sold represented an 8.1% year-over-year increase, and helps put it solidly in 2nd in year-to-date sales.

4) Honda Pilot – 8879 Sold/15,244 YTD – New Entry
After being a no-show on the sales chart last month the Honda Pilot came seemingly out of nowhere to snag 4th place from the Kia Sorento, ultimately bumping the Toyota Highlander off the chart. Honda managed to sell 8879 Pilots last month, which represented a 3.6% increase over last year. Honda has sold 15,244 Pilots so far in 2012.

5) Kia Sorento – 8386 Sold/15,708 YTD – Down 1
Though it was bumped from last month’s spot, the Kia Sorento still remains in the top 5 with 8386 vehicles sold. Currently Kia’s best-selling vehicle, Sorento sales were down 2.9% versus February of 2011. Even so, Kia has still managed to sell 15,708 of the American-made 3-row crossover so far in 2012.

1s to Watch:

Toyota Highlander – 8155 Sold/15,011 YTD – Down 1
Toyota’s bread-and-butter midsize offering got narrowly edged out by the Sorento, thanks to the dark horse Pilot. Though it’s currently out of the running, it’s likely over the course of the year the Highlander will nudge its way back into the top 5.

Chevrolet Traverse – 7966 Sold/14,606 YTD
Chevy’s version of the Lambda crossover may be the best-selling of GM’s jumbo-sized crossover triplets, but it still wasn’t enough to get it in the top 5. Will it elbow its way in to the top 5 sometime this year? Being only a few hundred units off of this month’s number 5 model, it’s possible.

PortlandRL

Nice to see this thread still hasn't lost its troll infestation and that I've missed nothing I haven't seen a million times already.

You guys have fun. I'll pass.

YEH

That's simply b/c Nissan has the excess capacity, esp. from its factories in NA, to churn out vehicles.


Why are you comparing the Maxima to the Genesis?

The competitor to the Maxima is the Azera, not the Genesis and the Genesis is outselling the Infiniti M despite being older and not having AWD.

And the Altima is outselling the Sonata b/c Nissan has the capacity to build as many Altimas as they do, not to mention massive amount of $$ on the hood.

Average incentive spending for Feb./% with regard to ATP

Hyundai/Kia - $937 (4.4%)

Honda - $2,009 (7.7%)

Nissan - $2,831 (10.1%)


The only automaker which has incentives making up a higher % of ATP than Nissan is Chrysler.

And oh, Kia went bankrupt as well and Nissan really wasn't hurt by the tsunami and used it to its advantage to steal marketshare from Toyota and Honda since their NA production wasn't really affected.

As usual, like taking candy from a baby.

SSFTSX

why it has excess capacity because it has invested money on time.

Check comparably equiped price of Maxima with Genesis. you will be surpized that Genesis give more standard equipment at lower price. and Maxima still have old engine and transmission tech with Strut suspension. This thing is very profitable for Nissan. Maxima is size of Sonata.

Infiniti M is alot more expensive car. Almost equal to BMW 535 prices. It is more comparable to Eqqus.

Remember these are avg incentives. Nissan sell more higher priced vehicles in greater quantity than Hyundai. $3K incentive on $40K Maxima is not big deal compared to $1k incentive on $22K sonata. Nissan has more SUV.

Nissan still has profit and investment advanatage over Honda/Toyota. There is no low price hybrid like Honda Civic/Prius from Nissan. Nissan has alot more growth potential.
It is just one redesign away from passing Honda.

YEH

An automaker doesn't make as much money if its factories aren't running near maximum capacity.

Hyundai's factories are running at over 110% capacity in the US and 105% worldwide.

Nissan also isn't making as much $$ per vehicle sold since its putting a lot of $$ on the hood (more than twice the rate of Hyundai).



The Maxima competes in the upscale FWD full-size segment w/ the Avalon, Taurus, Azera, etc. (is the Altima supposed to compete against the Elantra? lol).

The Maxima does well for Nissan but a big chunk of its sales goes to fleet.



So? Comparably equipped, the 3 Series is about $10k more than the Infiniti G.

The LS400 had a starting MSRP of $35k which undercut a well-equipped Mercedes E Class, nevermind the S Class; and even today, the LS460 is $20k less than the S Class.

Hyundai has to discount being a new entrant and not selling under a luxury brand, just as Acura has to discount for being FWD.

Besides, the avg. MSRP of a Genesis sold is over $40k since it has the highest V8 take rate (by far).


Uhh, that's why I included incentive spending as a percentage of ATP - and Nissan's % (10.1%) is more than twice Hyundai/Kia's (4.4%).

GM and Ford sell a lot more trucks and SUVs than Nissan and they spend less on incentives than Nissan; Nissan's sells growth the past year or so has been due to aggressive discounting and fleet sales (it's a bit humorous that these 2 were things you used to harp on Hyundai but now that the "shoe's on the other foot" - you totally overlook it - so typical).


Do you always just gloss over things that contradict your claims? Oh, yeah, look at whom I'm responding to.


While Nissan may have an advantage over Honda due now due to Honda's missteps, it does not have an advantage over Toyota.

Nissan has expanded ties w/ Mercedes since it needs to cut development costs down for Infiniti, and this is despite the fact that they had already abandoned the RWD flagship segment.

SSFTSX

So how do u know Nissan factories are not running at maximum?. Have u looked at Nissan British/Russian factories?. Why would they need even more factories if they are not running at maximum.
It is only $2k difference and Nissan vehicles have less content and higher price than Hyundais. At the end it balances out.

Where u get this idea that Maxima compete with Avalon/Taurus?. Have u looked at there is sizes and charateristics. Altima and Maxima is same size. One is more upscale than there other.




It is not. BMW 3 series give advanced DI Turbo Charged engine with 8 Speed fuel efficien transmission with 4 year of maintianance. None of which is included in Infinti G. when u add up every thing objectively. Infiniti G is more expensive. You will not even get side mirror indicators
Remember Nissan will never give you more for less. It is not Carlos Ghosan philosophy.
S class is lot larger, powerfull and advance vehicle than LS460.
Hyundai has rock bottom prices despite being in market with Genesis for 5 years now.

Nissan vehicles are decontented, higher priced and don’t have 10 year warranties like Hyundi. They can afford the incentives.
GM/Ford trucks are cheaper than Nissan. Nissan is a lot more profitable brand globally. You can see for there revenues. It is almost on par with GM/Ford despite selling a lot less vehicles.


Toyota only advantage is due it is hybrids. Once Nissan put there own hybrids into Altima-Sentra and next generation infiniti. Things will be a lot harder for Toyotas.
It will be Nissan that will building MB engines at its factories in US because it has excess capacity. It will benefit both fims.

speedemon90

Brand name is huge for the sales of BMW and MB and why they do so much better than Audi, who arguably has some better cars in their lineup than the other two.

Example A. My uncle owns a 2011 7 series (I believe) and a 09 S-class, both are the newest gens.

Anyway he recently got the 7 series and I tried to get him into looking at the A8. But he didn't want to mainly because the A8 doesnt have big name like BMW does in his mind. If he's paying 100k for a car he wants more than just tech and stuff. He's a business owner and takes clients around sometimes so he wants that name in his car.

He would be what I would say a avg consumer for that car. He's no enthusiast in anyway like we are here about sport and such. He wants comfort and luxury.

smarty666

The problem Hyundai has is, the price of the new Azera overlaps heavily with the Genesis. So basically, Hyundai doesn't know how to price their vehicles appropriately without taking sales from one another. A lot of consumer shops based on price ranges and not on what is offered on the car.

The problem is, the Genesis prices align nearly identical to the Maxima's and hence people compare and cross shop them. Just as the M is much more expensive then the Genesis.

Hyundai has really shot themselves in the foot with their pricing choices on the Azera vs Genesis. Similiar as Nissan has done with the Maxima compared to the G37.

smarty666

I'm going to have to call you out on this one as I rent cars for work all the time and have yet to see massive amounts of Maxima's in the rental lots. I've seen 1 or 2, here or there, but Maxima's sales are not made up heavily on fleet sales. You would have to provide a data source to prove otherwise.

Based on what I've read in your posts, your just taking pot shots at Nissan b/c they are your closest/biggest competitor. Not the best way to promote your brand by being on the defensive. Plus, you don't seem to realize that SSFTSX is just a troll that is trying to get a kick out of you.

YEH

Why would I take a shot at Nissan (they've always been a my favorite Japanese brand)?

And there aren't "massive amounts" of Maximas at rental lots b/c (1) rental agencies don't keep massive amounts of "full-size" sedans on their lots and (2) Maximas don't sell that much anyways, along w/ all the other "full-size" sedans.

Nissan for Jan. 2012 had a fleet share percentage of 24.5% which is approaching the fleet share percentages of the domestic automakers (around 29%) - which being domestic, should naturally have a higher fleet % than imports.

http://www.allpar.com/news/index.php...ose-in-january

Not saying that Maxima sales are 40% fleet or anything like that, but something in line w/ their overall fleet %.

And I realize that SSFTSX is a troll, but sometimes I like plowing huge holes thru his positions.

smarty666

Nah, still isn't evident to say that about the Maxima specifically. I've seen a lot of Altima's in the rental lots, which is a shame b/c I really like that car and it just belittles it when Nissan sells that many to rental lots.

For someone who really like Nissan, you sure have plenty of negative things to say about them. The Maxima sells extremely well for a flagship premium sedan. They sold somewhere between 60-70k last year, thats pretty good for its class. I love when people call it large sedan, when its dimensions are clearly in the mid-size category, lol.

YEH

^ Sales of both the Impala and Taurus are down YTD; otoh, sales of the Maxima are up YTD.

In these days of high gas prices, I doubt that increase is due much to retail sales.

smarty666

Sure it is, b/c of the price/features and the new bodystyle has been a big hit, especially compared to the 6th Gen Maxima.

TSX69

Honda Reports March Sales

American Honda Motor Co., Inc., today reported March 2012 monthly new-vehicle sales of 126,999, a decrease of 8.4% over March 2011, based on the daily selling rate*. The Honda Division posted March 2012 sales of 115,833, a decrease of 7.7% year-over-year. Honda's year-over-year decline is in reference to an exceptionally strong sales month in March 2011.

The all-new 2012 Honda CR-V continued its record-setting sales pace, up 35.3% from last year and posting an all-time monthly sales record of 30,868 sales compared to last year's total of 21,998 units.

“We knew we had a home run with the all-new CR-V," said John Mendel, American Honda executive vice president of sales. "And to launch it right as our supply chain is refilling means that we are competing in earnest in a growing market. The CR-V has historically been a sales leader in its segment, and the success of this all-new vehicle tells us that we've again hit a real sweet spot for consumers.”

The Acura Division's March sales totaled 11,166, down 14.6% compared to March 2011. The TSX model registered a double-digit sales increase, up 15.1% from the same period last year to 3,355 units. Sales of the TL sales reached 2,923, a year-over-year decrease of 29.4%.

*The daily selling rate (DSR) is calculated with 28 days for March 2012 and 27 days for March 2011. Year-to-date, the DSR is calculated with 77 days for 2012 and 75 days for 2011. All percentages reflect DSR.

AZuser

A big jump in Civic hybrid sales (up 98.1%). But really the only vehicle doing well is the new CR-V. Poor Honda.

dom

I'm seeing new CR-V's all over the place.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

The hell happened to CR-Z and Insight?? That's a huge drop.

JAB00

The RL and ZDX are complete dogs. I hope Honda learns its lesson that styling matters. They cannot just throw anything at consumers and expect them to buy it because of Honda reputation. There are just too many competent competitors out there to settle for a bland or ugly designed vehicle. If Honda does not markedly improve its design for the next generation Acuras, I am afraid it's toast. I love my 05 TL but I will not get another if it looks like a dog.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

But they have the super duper handling awd though.

AZuser

Hyundai and Kia... still stagnating.


Hyundai Press Release



Kia Press Release:

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

crazy numbers.

ttribe

SSFTSX

It is still stagnating. Maxima sales are now twice of Genesis, Altima is twice of Sonata. Infiniti M is more than twice of Equus.
Nissan-Infiniti is selling now more than combined Hyundai-Kia.
All this without Revised Sentra, mainstream hybrids and 6 new models due to be lunched soon.
I would not write off Honda yet. provided they can make Accord right and revised Civic. CRV/Pilot/Odysey are higher priced vehicles and are selling well.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

What do you eat everyday?

dom

? They've always had terrible sales because they're mediocre products. Or terrible in the Insights case. Meanwhile over at Toyota they sold 28,711 of the Prius line in March.

As much as some would have you believe It's a production issue or Honda doesn't want to sell you any because it loses them money. The bottom line is crappy products don't sell and good ones do. Exhibit A is the CR-V and Exibit B are the Honda hybrids and Crosstour.

krio

mmmhh... what Honda could invent this year to justify the falling sales...
no Tsunami? earthquake?...

F23A4

Same deal here in NJ, as well as 'new' last year previous gen models.

With regard to the other models, the 8G Accord is on the way out so some sales fallout was going to occur. While the Accord (and Camry) will likely always be the benchmark of the segment ( Car & Driver and VW Passat), Honda needs to hit it out of the park with the 9G.

But the issue with the Civic couldn't have come at worst time with respect to competing models from "upstart" Hyundai and Kia starting to gain a foothold in the segment.

TSX69

Acura Announced March 2012 Sales

Acura today announced March 2012 new-vehicle sales of 11,166 units, a decrease of 14.6% compared to March 2011 based on Daily Selling Rate* (DSR). Year-to-date sales posted 30,805 units, down 4.3% compared to 2011.

The TSX reported 3,355 units, up 15.1% and the TL 2,923 units, down 29.4%. Total car sales reported 6,316 units, down 13.0% versus March 2011. The MDX was Acura's best selling model with 3,755 sales for the month, down 12.0%. Total truck sales tallied 4,850 units, a decrease of 16.6%.

*The Daily Selling Rate (DSR) is calculated with 28 selling days for March 2012 and 27 selling days for March 2011.
**Year-to-date sales based are on 77 days for 2012 and 75 days for 2011.