Hyundai: Genesis News
#2282
Senior Moderator
#2283
2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe by Rhys Millen Racing
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...hotopanel..1.*
A Comfortable Tuner Car - Lightly Seasoned With Carbon Fiber
By Josh Jacquot, Senior Road Test Editor
Date posted: 07-12-2009
Hunkered down over its 19-inch wheels with its exhaust burbling, the 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe by Rhys Millen Racing (RMR) looks about as badass as any tuner car we've ever tested. Its wheelwells are absolutely filled with Toyo T1R rubber. And it's so low that there's not even room for a dime between the tires and fenders.
"Where's the kidney belt?" we're thinking to ourselves as we climb behind the wheel for our weeklong stint. See, we've done this before. We've driven plenty of tuner cars that have punished us unmercifully as we've driven down the road, the so-called suspension "tuning" feeling as if it had been accomplished by Neanderthals with stone tools.
So we were pleasantly surprised when we pulled out of the shop of Rhys Millen Racing in Huntington Beach, California, and found ourselves driving all of 10 feet before running straight over a set of railroad tracks. What happened next might seem not only unlikely but even impossible given the history of aftermarket tuning. The suspension — the moving parts under the car designed to soak up bumps — did exactly that.
And then for the next six days this high-performance Genesis Coupe built by RMR continued to soak them up. In fact, by the time our test of this car ended, this single trait continued to be so novel that we started running over bumps just to see what would happen. Tiny little square-edge stutter bumps on the freeway? Nothing to worry about. Big rollers at triple-digit speeds? Who cares? And the ultimate test: midcorner bumps when you're already near the grip limit? Not a problem.
This is how an aftermarket suspension should feel. And it's only one part of Millen's package for the 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe.
The Rest of the Story
Back in February, Hyundai dropped a bomb on the enthusiast world with its 2010 Genesis Coupe. The striking car has a 306-horsepower 3.8-liter V6 motivating its rear wheels, huge Brembo brakes (included as part of the Track package trim) and enough road presence to draw inquiries from mullet-wearing Camaro drivers — not typically the sort of guys you'd find curious about a Korean coupe. This is one of the biggest stories in performance cars this year.
And it just got bigger.
Rhys Millen Racing, the same outfit that campaigns a 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe in the Formula Drift Series with Red Bull sponsorship, prepared this mildly modified Genesis Coupe with some of the same parts used on its competition car and some cooperation with various aftermarket partners. The goal of the project has been to show what can be done starting with a Base or Grand Touring model Genesis Coupe, both of which cost less than the Track package and lack its aggressive suspension tuning, Brembo brakes, Torsen limited-slip differential and 19-inch wheels and tires.
Lightweight Exotic Parts
RMR has arranged the manufacture of a carbon-fiber hood and trunk lid for the Genesis, which together shave about 40 pounds from the coupe's curb weight (28 pounds from the hood, 12 from the trunk). The parts are essentially the same as those used by Rhys Millen's competition car, except the hood's vents and ducts are not cut out in this application for a street car, which seems smart.
Under the hood, carbon fiber replaces the stock pieces for the airbox lid and ducting, dressing up the engine bay and adding, Millen tells us, 6 hp. A K&N panel filter replaces the stock air filter. RMR has also bolted on an axle-back exhaust that uses 2.5-inch tubing, and Millen says the exhaust is good for 5 hp.
KW Suspensions supplies its Variant 3 pieces (coil-overs up front, separate springs and dampers in the rear), which offer adjustable damping in both compression and rebound. Meanwhile the new antiroll bars from RMR/Suspension Techniques are 3.1mm larger in diameter up front and 1.5mm larger than stock in the rear, and both are two-position-adjustable.
The 19-inch Enkei RPF1 wheels are shod in 245/40ZR19 front and 275/35ZR19 rear Toyo Proxes T1R tires, a combination that actually reduces weight by about 7.5 pounds per wheel. The Stoptech brake system (a prototype on this particular car) replaces the coupe's stock brakes with six-piston front and four-piston rear calipers. Stoptech's two-piece rotors are 14 inches in diameter up front and 13.6 inches in diameter in the rear. The combination increases both brake torque and thermal capacity.
In an effort to increase the coupe's leverage on the pavement under acceleration, RMR has replaced the stock 3.5:1 rear end with a 3.9:1 rear axle from the turbocharged 2.0-liter Genesis Coupe, retaining the Torsen limited-slip differential in the process.
At 3,414 pounds, the RMR coupe weighs 59 pounds less than the 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 Track Package we last had on our scales, thanks in part to its carbon-fiber body panels. The Stoptech brakes, we figure, are a wash with the Brembos in terms of weight. Their two-piece rotors save weight, but are larger in diameter. Plus the six-piston front calipers are larger than the four-piston Brembos on a Track package car.
Going
Without big power upgrades, we weren't expecting major acceleration improvements from the RMR car versus a stock Track package car. (We haven't tested a Base or Grand Touring-equipped coupe, but all these variants make the same power when equipped with the 3.8-liter V6.)
Launching in the quarter-mile from about 4,000 rpm, the first few gears disappear sooner in the Millen car than in the stocker, forcing two shifts before achieving 60 mph, a speed the stock coupe will reach in 2nd gear because of its taller final drive.
Even so, the 60-mph milestone arrives in 5.8 seconds (5.5 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like on a drag strip), which is 0.1 second quicker than the last Track package Genesis Coupe we tested. This margin holds until the quarter-mile traps, which we reach in 14.0 seconds at 100.7 mph; the Track package car makes its pass in 14.1 seconds at 99.3 mph.
We didn't see any improvement in the RMR car's braking in our single-stop test. Hauling down from 60 mph to zero requires 117 feet in the RMR coupe. The last Track package-equipped car we tested required 111 feet to stop from the same speed.
There are several possible explanations for this, but we suspect the Toyo T1R tires, which have a higher treadwear rating than the stock Bridgestone Potenzas (280 vs. 140), likely have something to do with it. What's more, the prototype Stoptech brake system had been optimized only on paper for this application and hadn't yet undergone real-world development by the company's engineers — a process that we know from experience will shorten the car's single-stop distance.
Turning
Limited grip again defines the car's character in our handling tests. Here, however, it matches or exceeds the numbers produced by the stock coupe. Charging through the slalom cones at 68.9 mph, the RMR-tuned coupe proves a bit softer around the edges than its stock Track package counterpart, which is barely quicker at 69.0 mph.
Lateral grip is better, however, at 0.90g vs. the stock car's performance of 0.87g. This is due in part to the car's increased roll stiffness and increased receptiveness to throttle input. Its adjustable antiroll bars were set on full stiff front and rear for our test, and decreasing the front bar's stiffness might further improve this skid pad number.
This suspension performance comes thanks to the hardware provided by KW Suspensions, a German aftermarket suspension company with the testing resources to produce realistically streetable suspensions that still offer a performance and aesthetic improvement. For example, KW makes the adjustable suspension that comes stock on the Mercedes-Benz CLK63 AMG Black Series.
On the Road
Drive the RMR-tuned Genesis Coupe around for a few days and you'll realize that it rides more like a factory-tuned performance sedan than an aftermarket-tuned coupe. First, it's comfortable. This is a car that anyone could drive every day. Despite being at least an inch lower than stock, there's nothing about its ride quality that is even mildly disagreeable. There's ample compression travel to soak up the real world's irregularities, while the handling doesn't suffer despite not-so-sticky tires. Give this car some real rubber and there's likely a real monster hiding here.
This mild character means its edges aren't hard, so sensing its limits isn't as easy as it would be with more aggressive tires and suspension, but we think that's all right. The RMR coupe looks incredible and it works well. And for 90 percent of enthusiasts, this will be enough.
Although the brakes are prototype pieces which didn't wow us in a single-stop test, they still offer increased heat capacity and excellent pedal feel. We drove the car harder than we should have down our favorite mountain road — a 10-mile run that drops 3,000 vertical feet — and experienced zero fade.
Our only complaint is one that likely won't matter on a car with a stock final-drive ratio. Cruising at 2,750 rpm in 6th gear, which just happens to be freeway speed in Southern California, the RMR exhaust will drone your eardrums into numbness in about 30 seconds. Luckily, the taller final drive of the stock 3.8-liter V6 manual-transmission car drops the engine rpm during cruising just out of this resonance range.
Build Your Own
Assuming you start with a base model Genesis Coupe that starts at $25,000, you could duplicate the 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe by Rhys Millen Racing for almost exactly $40,000, including the $750 destination fee. Of course, $5,790 of the additional cost comes from the Stoptech brakes, and this is a tough sell when you can have the Track package car with its Brembo brakes, limited-slip differential and 19-inch wheels for $29,500 to start.
But that won't get you the stellar suspension, which makes this car what it is: comfortable, well mannered and unlikely. We'll take ours in Tsukuba Red.
By Josh Jacquot, Senior Road Test Editor
Date posted: 07-12-2009
Hunkered down over its 19-inch wheels with its exhaust burbling, the 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe by Rhys Millen Racing (RMR) looks about as badass as any tuner car we've ever tested. Its wheelwells are absolutely filled with Toyo T1R rubber. And it's so low that there's not even room for a dime between the tires and fenders.
"Where's the kidney belt?" we're thinking to ourselves as we climb behind the wheel for our weeklong stint. See, we've done this before. We've driven plenty of tuner cars that have punished us unmercifully as we've driven down the road, the so-called suspension "tuning" feeling as if it had been accomplished by Neanderthals with stone tools.
So we were pleasantly surprised when we pulled out of the shop of Rhys Millen Racing in Huntington Beach, California, and found ourselves driving all of 10 feet before running straight over a set of railroad tracks. What happened next might seem not only unlikely but even impossible given the history of aftermarket tuning. The suspension — the moving parts under the car designed to soak up bumps — did exactly that.
And then for the next six days this high-performance Genesis Coupe built by RMR continued to soak them up. In fact, by the time our test of this car ended, this single trait continued to be so novel that we started running over bumps just to see what would happen. Tiny little square-edge stutter bumps on the freeway? Nothing to worry about. Big rollers at triple-digit speeds? Who cares? And the ultimate test: midcorner bumps when you're already near the grip limit? Not a problem.
This is how an aftermarket suspension should feel. And it's only one part of Millen's package for the 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe.
The Rest of the Story
Back in February, Hyundai dropped a bomb on the enthusiast world with its 2010 Genesis Coupe. The striking car has a 306-horsepower 3.8-liter V6 motivating its rear wheels, huge Brembo brakes (included as part of the Track package trim) and enough road presence to draw inquiries from mullet-wearing Camaro drivers — not typically the sort of guys you'd find curious about a Korean coupe. This is one of the biggest stories in performance cars this year.
And it just got bigger.
Rhys Millen Racing, the same outfit that campaigns a 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe in the Formula Drift Series with Red Bull sponsorship, prepared this mildly modified Genesis Coupe with some of the same parts used on its competition car and some cooperation with various aftermarket partners. The goal of the project has been to show what can be done starting with a Base or Grand Touring model Genesis Coupe, both of which cost less than the Track package and lack its aggressive suspension tuning, Brembo brakes, Torsen limited-slip differential and 19-inch wheels and tires.
Lightweight Exotic Parts
RMR has arranged the manufacture of a carbon-fiber hood and trunk lid for the Genesis, which together shave about 40 pounds from the coupe's curb weight (28 pounds from the hood, 12 from the trunk). The parts are essentially the same as those used by Rhys Millen's competition car, except the hood's vents and ducts are not cut out in this application for a street car, which seems smart.
Under the hood, carbon fiber replaces the stock pieces for the airbox lid and ducting, dressing up the engine bay and adding, Millen tells us, 6 hp. A K&N panel filter replaces the stock air filter. RMR has also bolted on an axle-back exhaust that uses 2.5-inch tubing, and Millen says the exhaust is good for 5 hp.
KW Suspensions supplies its Variant 3 pieces (coil-overs up front, separate springs and dampers in the rear), which offer adjustable damping in both compression and rebound. Meanwhile the new antiroll bars from RMR/Suspension Techniques are 3.1mm larger in diameter up front and 1.5mm larger than stock in the rear, and both are two-position-adjustable.
The 19-inch Enkei RPF1 wheels are shod in 245/40ZR19 front and 275/35ZR19 rear Toyo Proxes T1R tires, a combination that actually reduces weight by about 7.5 pounds per wheel. The Stoptech brake system (a prototype on this particular car) replaces the coupe's stock brakes with six-piston front and four-piston rear calipers. Stoptech's two-piece rotors are 14 inches in diameter up front and 13.6 inches in diameter in the rear. The combination increases both brake torque and thermal capacity.
In an effort to increase the coupe's leverage on the pavement under acceleration, RMR has replaced the stock 3.5:1 rear end with a 3.9:1 rear axle from the turbocharged 2.0-liter Genesis Coupe, retaining the Torsen limited-slip differential in the process.
At 3,414 pounds, the RMR coupe weighs 59 pounds less than the 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 Track Package we last had on our scales, thanks in part to its carbon-fiber body panels. The Stoptech brakes, we figure, are a wash with the Brembos in terms of weight. Their two-piece rotors save weight, but are larger in diameter. Plus the six-piston front calipers are larger than the four-piston Brembos on a Track package car.
Going
Without big power upgrades, we weren't expecting major acceleration improvements from the RMR car versus a stock Track package car. (We haven't tested a Base or Grand Touring-equipped coupe, but all these variants make the same power when equipped with the 3.8-liter V6.)
Launching in the quarter-mile from about 4,000 rpm, the first few gears disappear sooner in the Millen car than in the stocker, forcing two shifts before achieving 60 mph, a speed the stock coupe will reach in 2nd gear because of its taller final drive.
Even so, the 60-mph milestone arrives in 5.8 seconds (5.5 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like on a drag strip), which is 0.1 second quicker than the last Track package Genesis Coupe we tested. This margin holds until the quarter-mile traps, which we reach in 14.0 seconds at 100.7 mph; the Track package car makes its pass in 14.1 seconds at 99.3 mph.
We didn't see any improvement in the RMR car's braking in our single-stop test. Hauling down from 60 mph to zero requires 117 feet in the RMR coupe. The last Track package-equipped car we tested required 111 feet to stop from the same speed.
There are several possible explanations for this, but we suspect the Toyo T1R tires, which have a higher treadwear rating than the stock Bridgestone Potenzas (280 vs. 140), likely have something to do with it. What's more, the prototype Stoptech brake system had been optimized only on paper for this application and hadn't yet undergone real-world development by the company's engineers — a process that we know from experience will shorten the car's single-stop distance.
Turning
Limited grip again defines the car's character in our handling tests. Here, however, it matches or exceeds the numbers produced by the stock coupe. Charging through the slalom cones at 68.9 mph, the RMR-tuned coupe proves a bit softer around the edges than its stock Track package counterpart, which is barely quicker at 69.0 mph.
Lateral grip is better, however, at 0.90g vs. the stock car's performance of 0.87g. This is due in part to the car's increased roll stiffness and increased receptiveness to throttle input. Its adjustable antiroll bars were set on full stiff front and rear for our test, and decreasing the front bar's stiffness might further improve this skid pad number.
This suspension performance comes thanks to the hardware provided by KW Suspensions, a German aftermarket suspension company with the testing resources to produce realistically streetable suspensions that still offer a performance and aesthetic improvement. For example, KW makes the adjustable suspension that comes stock on the Mercedes-Benz CLK63 AMG Black Series.
On the Road
Drive the RMR-tuned Genesis Coupe around for a few days and you'll realize that it rides more like a factory-tuned performance sedan than an aftermarket-tuned coupe. First, it's comfortable. This is a car that anyone could drive every day. Despite being at least an inch lower than stock, there's nothing about its ride quality that is even mildly disagreeable. There's ample compression travel to soak up the real world's irregularities, while the handling doesn't suffer despite not-so-sticky tires. Give this car some real rubber and there's likely a real monster hiding here.
This mild character means its edges aren't hard, so sensing its limits isn't as easy as it would be with more aggressive tires and suspension, but we think that's all right. The RMR coupe looks incredible and it works well. And for 90 percent of enthusiasts, this will be enough.
Although the brakes are prototype pieces which didn't wow us in a single-stop test, they still offer increased heat capacity and excellent pedal feel. We drove the car harder than we should have down our favorite mountain road — a 10-mile run that drops 3,000 vertical feet — and experienced zero fade.
Our only complaint is one that likely won't matter on a car with a stock final-drive ratio. Cruising at 2,750 rpm in 6th gear, which just happens to be freeway speed in Southern California, the RMR exhaust will drone your eardrums into numbness in about 30 seconds. Luckily, the taller final drive of the stock 3.8-liter V6 manual-transmission car drops the engine rpm during cruising just out of this resonance range.
Build Your Own
Assuming you start with a base model Genesis Coupe that starts at $25,000, you could duplicate the 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe by Rhys Millen Racing for almost exactly $40,000, including the $750 destination fee. Of course, $5,790 of the additional cost comes from the Stoptech brakes, and this is a tough sell when you can have the Track package car with its Brembo brakes, limited-slip differential and 19-inch wheels for $29,500 to start.
But that won't get you the stellar suspension, which makes this car what it is: comfortable, well mannered and unlikely. We'll take ours in Tsukuba Red.
#2284
I disagree with unanimity
iTrader: (2)
I think this says it all right here:
But, it does look damn good.
![](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/roadtests/roadtest/10.rmr.hyundai.genesis.coupe/2010-rmrgenesiscoupe-r34-hyundai-rt-500-2.jpg)
![](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/roadtests/roadtest/10.rmr.hyundai.genesis.coupe/2010-rmrgenesiscoupe-r34-hyundai-rt-500-1.jpg)
Assuming you start with a base model Genesis Coupe that starts at $25,000, you could duplicate the 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe by Rhys Millen Racing for almost exactly $40,000, including the $750 destination fee. Of course, $5,790 of the additional cost comes from the Stoptech brakes, and this is a tough sell when you can have the Track package car with its Brembo brakes, limited-slip differential and 19-inch wheels for $29,500 to start.
But, it does look damn good.
![](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/roadtests/roadtest/10.rmr.hyundai.genesis.coupe/2010-rmrgenesiscoupe-r34-hyundai-rt-500-2.jpg)
![](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/roadtests/roadtest/10.rmr.hyundai.genesis.coupe/2010-rmrgenesiscoupe-r34-hyundai-rt-500-1.jpg)
![](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/roadtests/roadtest/10.rmr.hyundai.genesis.coupe/2010-rmrgenesiscoupe-f34-hyundai-rt-500-2.jpg)
#2285
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Stockton, CA
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#2286
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
it does look good........
#2287
Safety Car
did they build it out of non-breambo version? if not, why would they replace the brembo with stoptech over brembo for slightly lower performance? for black color scheme going around the wheel???????
there are so many kdm versions that look better that this though...
there are so many kdm versions that look better that this though...
![2 Cents](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/2cents.gif)
#2288
mmmmmm....
![Rice](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rice.gif)
#2289
I don't like the way that RMR coupe looks.... I like RP-F1s but they look good on any car. That CF hood also looks like it has poor fitment, not to mention the GC looks better without the factory (?) spoiler.
Stoptech has lower performance than Brembo does?
That's usually not the case, especially compared to factory Brembo brakes. I'm assuming that the Track Package GC has 4-piston fronts and 2-piston rears and while more pistons does not necessarily = better either, the Stoptech kit has 6-piston F, 4-piston R which should improve its performance on the track, especially once Stoptech actually comes out with a proper kit for it.
![Scratch](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/scratch.gif)
#2290
Dragging knees in
iTrader: (2)
I don't like the way that RMR coupe looks.... I like RP-F1s but they look good on any car. That CF hood also looks like it has poor fitment, not to mention the GC looks better without the factory (?) spoiler.
Stoptech has lower performance than Brembo does?
That's usually not the case, especially compared to factory Brembo brakes. I'm assuming that the Track Package GC has 4-piston fronts and 2-piston rears and while more pistons does not necessarily = better either, the Stoptech kit has 6-piston F, 4-piston R which should improve its performance on the track, especially once Stoptech actually comes out with a proper kit for it.
Stoptech has lower performance than Brembo does?
![Scratch](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/scratch.gif)
#2291
Team Owner
except for the high end cars like GTR and ZR1 when cost is not an issue.
#2292
#2293
Safety Car
#2294
Team Owner
i did and the only thing it said is It took 6 feet more than stock brembo, which is only 1 of the many purposes of having bbk.
1. They use different tires... maybe the stock RE050A has better stopping grip than whatever you have on those enkei
2. Were the aftermarket metallic pads warmed up enough to even stop anything.
3 only noobs buy aftermarket bbk to reduce stopping distance because they will be disappointed.
1. They use different tires... maybe the stock RE050A has better stopping grip than whatever you have on those enkei
2. Were the aftermarket metallic pads warmed up enough to even stop anything.
3 only noobs buy aftermarket bbk to reduce stopping distance because they will be disappointed.
Last edited by oonowindoo; 07-14-2009 at 07:23 PM.
#2297
#2298
01'BMW540iMspt
Join Date: Apr 2008
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I don't like the way that RMR coupe looks.... I like RP-F1s but they look good on any car. That CF hood also looks like it has poor fitment, not to mention the GC looks better without the factory (?) spoiler.
Stoptech has lower performance than Brembo does?
That's usually not the case, especially compared to factory Brembo brakes. I'm assuming that the Track Package GC has 4-piston fronts and 2-piston rears and while more pistons does not necessarily = better either, the Stoptech kit has 6-piston F, 4-piston R which should improve its performance on the track, especially once Stoptech actually comes out with a proper kit for it.
Stoptech has lower performance than Brembo does?
![Scratch](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/scratch.gif)
The track pkg comes with 4 piston front & rear Brembos from the factory.
I'm intending on purchasing a R-Spec when it comes out ($23,750) & investing about $22k more in parts (me doing the labor) to get it where I want it. For $45k I realize that I could have a plethra of other vehicles, but choose not to. Then again, none will perform as well as my customized GenCoupe. I foresee my particular car taking down the likes of M3s etc, but it will be destined for track use mainly, since my bimmer is my beater.
#2299
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
^ What are you? Hyundai Service Manager?
#2300
Safety Car
guess 8-speed will eventually come for genesis...
and supercharged tau??
![](http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/2011-hyundai-genesis-facelift-spy-shots_100227245_m.jpg)
and supercharged tau??
Hyundai’s Genesis sedan has only been on sale for a little over a year and during that time it has already taken home the prestigious North American Car of the Year award. As successful as the original formula was, Hyundai is not resting on its laurels and is already planning an update to the car as seen in these latest spy shots.
The images depict a facelifted version of the car due late next year. They reveal a new tail-lamp design and slightly revised exhaust tips, and the camouflaged front-end suggests a new headlight and grille design as well.
Expect the powertrain lineup to continue with minimal changes, which means buyers will be able to select from either the 4.6-liter Tau V-8 with 380 horsepower or the 3.8-liter Lambda V-6 with 305 horsepower on tap. New engines are possible, including a 265 horsepower 3.3-liter V-6 already sold overseas and a new 5.0-liter V-8 range topper with more than 400 horsepower.
Supercharging technology is another area Hyundai is investigating but there’s no word on plans to introduce it to the Genesis line. Hyundai is also working on a new eight-speed automatic transmission but its first application is likely to be in the Equus flagship.
The images depict a facelifted version of the car due late next year. They reveal a new tail-lamp design and slightly revised exhaust tips, and the camouflaged front-end suggests a new headlight and grille design as well.
Expect the powertrain lineup to continue with minimal changes, which means buyers will be able to select from either the 4.6-liter Tau V-8 with 380 horsepower or the 3.8-liter Lambda V-6 with 305 horsepower on tap. New engines are possible, including a 265 horsepower 3.3-liter V-6 already sold overseas and a new 5.0-liter V-8 range topper with more than 400 horsepower.
Supercharging technology is another area Hyundai is investigating but there’s no word on plans to introduce it to the Genesis line. Hyundai is also working on a new eight-speed automatic transmission but its first application is likely to be in the Equus flagship.
![](http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/2011-hyundai-genesis-facelift-spy-shots_100227245_m.jpg)
![](http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/2011-hyundai-genesis-facelift-spy-shots_100227243_m.jpg)
#2302
The sizzle in the Steak
8 speed...hmmm this means Acura will have one in their cars around 2025.
#2303
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Hyundai's not joking about going upmarket and trying to gain more ground. And the apologists wonder why Acura gets so much flack (maybe because a "lowly" company like Hyundai released convincing full scale RWD V8 luxury vehicle and is improving on it even in a down economy, while Acura is releasing...drumroll, please...the ZDX).
#2304
Fahrvergnügen'd
Hyundai's not joking about going upmarket and trying to gain more ground. And the apologists wonder why Acura gets so much flack (maybe because a "lowly" company like Hyundai released convincing full scale RWD V8 luxury vehicle and is improving on it even in a down economy, while Acura is releasing...drumroll, please...the ZDX).
Maybe Hyundai can pay Lexus to service the Genesis models
![Tomato](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/tomato.gif)
#2306
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
8-Speed auto ![Drool](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/drool.gif)
Acura is still rocking the mighty 5 speed automatic, so who cares?
![Drool](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/drool.gif)
Acura is still rocking the mighty 5 speed automatic, so who cares?
#2307
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
![Werd](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/werd.gif)
![Werd](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/werd.gif)
![Werd](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/werd.gif)
Hyundai needs to change the entire dealership experience. As of now, their CS is like crap as f'.
This Hyundai salemen that I've talked to before didn't even know if the car that he is trying to sell has folding back seats.
![Why Me](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/whyme.gif)
#2308
I wonder if an 8 speed transmission is even necessary. The marginal benefit of adding an additional gear decreases with the number of speeds in a given transmission, and it seems that most current vehicles are well served by 6 or 7 speed transmissions. I've read that some of the 8 speed autos are almost overburdened by having too many speeds and, as a result, seem to hunt for the right gear and shift too often.
#2309
Suzuka Master
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I wonder if an 8 speed transmission is even necessary. The marginal benefit of adding an additional gear decreases with the number of speeds in a given transmission, and it seems that most current vehicles are well served by 6 or 7 speed transmissions. I've read that some of the 8 speed autos are almost overburdened by having too many speeds and, as a result, seem to hunt for the right gear and shift too often.
Given an adequate performing tranny, an 8spd should give marginally better performance or fuel economy, or both, but the main benefit is the bragging rights the company has for offering it (either to 1up a competitor or to show they want to be on equal footing with a competitor).
That's why when I maintain that Acura needs a V8 to play with the "big boys", I hate it when people defend Acura by saying, "But no one needs a V8" or "V8's make up such a small % of sales it's not worth developing" (it's always the same old excuse over and over...probably because they can't figure out any other reason that Acura shouldn't have a V8).
It's the same between V8's and 8spds (or 7spd or whatever)...the actual quantitative benefits may be marginal in terms of performance or economy or sales, but the qualitative benefit in terms of image and bragging rights could be huge.
#2311
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
No, an 8spd is not necessary, but that's exactly what Hyundai is doing, getting away from "just necessary" and going for "things you want but wouldn't ever ever ever need". That's the point of moving into the luxury segments, to get as far away as possible from things that are "just necessary". If we only got what was necessary, we'd all be driving Kia's and Hyundais (Hyundai would like that, but I guess they're willing to face reality that there is a shitload of people who won't settle for just "enough").
Given an adequate performing tranny, an 8spd should give marginally better performance or fuel economy, or both, but the main benefit is the bragging rights the company has for offering it (either to 1up a competitor or to show they want to be on equal footing with a competitor).
That's why when I maintain that Acura needs a V8 to play with the "big boys", I hate it when people defend Acura by saying, "But no one needs a V8" or "V8's make up such a small % of sales it's not worth developing" (it's always the same old excuse over and over...probably because they can't figure out any other reason that Acura shouldn't have a V8).
It's the same between V8's and 8spds (or 7spd or whatever)...the actual quantitative benefits may be marginal in terms of performance or economy or sales, but the qualitative benefit in terms of image and bragging rights could be huge.
Given an adequate performing tranny, an 8spd should give marginally better performance or fuel economy, or both, but the main benefit is the bragging rights the company has for offering it (either to 1up a competitor or to show they want to be on equal footing with a competitor).
That's why when I maintain that Acura needs a V8 to play with the "big boys", I hate it when people defend Acura by saying, "But no one needs a V8" or "V8's make up such a small % of sales it's not worth developing" (it's always the same old excuse over and over...probably because they can't figure out any other reason that Acura shouldn't have a V8).
It's the same between V8's and 8spds (or 7spd or whatever)...the actual quantitative benefits may be marginal in terms of performance or economy or sales, but the qualitative benefit in terms of image and bragging rights could be huge.
![ugh](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/ugh.gif)
but very very well said.
![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Last edited by JS + XES; 08-26-2009 at 04:09 PM.
#2312
Senior Moderator
Hyundai's not joking about going upmarket and trying to gain more ground. And the apologists wonder why Acura gets so much flack (maybe because a "lowly" company like Hyundai released convincing full scale RWD V8 luxury vehicle and is improving on it even in a down economy, while Acura is releasing...drumroll, please...the ZDX).
No, an 8spd is not necessary, but that's exactly what Hyundai is doing, getting away from "just necessary" and going for "things you want but wouldn't ever ever ever need". That's the point of moving into the luxury segments, to get as far away as possible from things that are "just necessary". If we only got what was necessary, we'd all be driving Kia's and Hyundais (Hyundai would like that, but I guess they're willing to face reality that there is a shitload of people who won't settle for just "enough").
Given an adequate performing tranny, an 8spd should give marginally better performance or fuel economy, or both, but the main benefit is the bragging rights the company has for offering it (either to 1up a competitor or to show they want to be on equal footing with a competitor).
That's why when I maintain that Acura needs a V8 to play with the "big boys", I hate it when people defend Acura by saying, "But no one needs a V8" or "V8's make up such a small % of sales it's not worth developing" (it's always the same old excuse over and over...probably because they can't figure out any other reason that Acura shouldn't have a V8).
It's the same between V8's and 8spds (or 7spd or whatever)...the actual quantitative benefits may be marginal in terms of performance or economy or sales, but the qualitative benefit in terms of image and bragging rights could be huge.
Given an adequate performing tranny, an 8spd should give marginally better performance or fuel economy, or both, but the main benefit is the bragging rights the company has for offering it (either to 1up a competitor or to show they want to be on equal footing with a competitor).
That's why when I maintain that Acura needs a V8 to play with the "big boys", I hate it when people defend Acura by saying, "But no one needs a V8" or "V8's make up such a small % of sales it's not worth developing" (it's always the same old excuse over and over...probably because they can't figure out any other reason that Acura shouldn't have a V8).
It's the same between V8's and 8spds (or 7spd or whatever)...the actual quantitative benefits may be marginal in terms of performance or economy or sales, but the qualitative benefit in terms of image and bragging rights could be huge.
While Acura is using OLD technology (5 speed, and J series) Lack of real motor options, trans options and Outright HORRIBLE Designs. Hyundai is showing they mean business and trying to go upmarket and designing cars that are desirable, have options, and are showing they are willing to try to go ahead and not backwards.
#2313
Burning Brakes
Honda's real reason for sticking with the 5-speed auto: the massive 3.7L V6 that generates a stunning 305 HP may be too much for a 6-speed gearbox to handle.
Actually, that's the deal with the SL65 Black. MB opted to stick with the 5 speed auto because their 6/7 speed boxes can't hold that much power. Except it makes more than double the power of the 09 TL.
You'd think they'd at least premier the 6-speed in a car that people actually might want to buy (i.e. the V6 TSX) instead of in a butt-ugly CUV.
Actually, that's the deal with the SL65 Black. MB opted to stick with the 5 speed auto because their 6/7 speed boxes can't hold that much power. Except it makes more than double the power of the 09 TL.
![Why Me](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/whyme.gif)
#2316
No, an 8spd is not necessary, but that's exactly what Hyundai is doing, getting away from "just necessary" and going for "things you want but wouldn't ever ever ever need". That's the point of moving into the luxury segments, to get as far away as possible from things that are "just necessary". If we only got what was necessary, we'd all be driving Kia's and Hyundais (Hyundai would like that, but I guess they're willing to face reality that there is a shitload of people who won't settle for just "enough").
#2317
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Jan 2001
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This has nothing to do with Acura, as I agree performance would be improved with more than a 5 speed. There are also tangible performance benefits with a V8. However, an 8 speed transmission may actually be detrimental to performance, because it may be heavier and may shift too frequently when hunting for the correct gear. If nothing is gained besides "bragging rights," the increased cost and complexity represents a poor engineering trade-off. I don't see why everyone is so excited about something that may not improve performance.
First of all, how do you know it is going to be heavier or perform poorly? You're dealing with MAY here. I "may" be killed tomorrow driving to work, should I not go since it would be a poor tradeoff to risk dying to get a paycheck? This is not the first 8spd on the market nor is it a cutting edge technolgy, so I don't see why you would think it "may" have no advantage to not be worth designing it.
Second, let's just PRETEND that it is detrimental to performance, or at best adds nothing to performance except bragging rights. I agree, the cost to engineer and manufacture it would definitely be a poor engineering trade-off then, but that's a very narrow view of the situation. The cost could still be a VERY valuable tradeoff based on marketing of the car. You know what was a poor engineering tradeoff? SH-AWD...it may be a very good engineering tradeoff for the cost to design and sell it, but it sure as hell didn't help the RL sell anymore over any other competitor in its segment, AWD or not.
Most buyers won't ask the same questions you asked since most buyers aren't enthusiasts. All they'll know is that Hyundai will market it and say, "We're like Lexus, we have an 8spd auto!" and people will be, "cool, i'm gonna check it out!" which is exactly what they want. So even IF it adds no real world advantages to the car or buyer, it is STILL a selling point/bragging right. And in the luxury segment, especially midsize luxury and up, bragging rights outsell "good engineering" by far (that's why BMW and MB sell so many more cars at higher prices). Lexus knows this, Acura knows this, Infiniti knows this...that's why they even exist in the first place, otherwise why spend the time and money to develop another dealership network for the premium brand?
Third, I don't believe that it'll be detrimental to performance or not add any value. Sure, it MAY not add any value or show any increased performance like you say, but I would bet against that. Like I said before, it's not cutting edge technology at all. An 8spd auto tranny isn't a brand new invention, it's just innovation of an auto tranny and Hyundai isn't even the first to do it.
Lastly, if all car companies based their decisions on whether something MAY have an engineering benefit or not before actually designing and producing it, I'd probably have to feed my horse and grease my buggy to make sure I can get to work tomorrow.
Last edited by mrdeeno; 08-26-2009 at 10:59 PM.
#2318
Why such a defeatist mindset?
First of all, how do you know it is going to be heavier or perform poorly? You're dealing with MAY here. I "may" be killed tomorrow driving to work, should I not go since it would be a poor tradeoff to risk dying to get a paycheck? This is not the first 8spd on the market nor is it a cutting edge technolgy, so I don't see why you would think it "may" have no advantage to not be worth designing it.
First of all, how do you know it is going to be heavier or perform poorly? You're dealing with MAY here. I "may" be killed tomorrow driving to work, should I not go since it would be a poor tradeoff to risk dying to get a paycheck? This is not the first 8spd on the market nor is it a cutting edge technolgy, so I don't see why you would think it "may" have no advantage to not be worth designing it.
#2319
6G TLX-S
8-speed auto for the Acura ? What for ?
Why on earth does anyone need 8 forward speeds for some lame V6 Acura vehicles ?
When the time comes for Acura to have a >350 hp engine, then a 7-or-8 speed auto becomes meaningful for the Acura's.
Why on earth does anyone need 8 forward speeds for some lame V6 Acura vehicles ?
When the time comes for Acura to have a >350 hp engine, then a 7-or-8 speed auto becomes meaningful for the Acura's.
#2320
Senior Moderator
I would think that 7 speeds is the most any car would need to be driven very well:
Do it like BMW does, but with more fuel econonmy:
1st = Reserve for sport mode, very short gear to get into the powerband
2nd = Keep as a starting gear (like 1st in an ordinary car)
3rd-6th = keep as cruising gears like in ordinary cars
7th = give it a low ratio so it's like the corvette reving low at higher speeds like 70+
Essentially its like the 6spd BMW uses now, but with another gear to help improve fuel economy both in the city and highway. This way you won't have tons of gear hunting to do, the car is fast when you want it, and gets great MPG when you want it.
Do it like BMW does, but with more fuel econonmy:
1st = Reserve for sport mode, very short gear to get into the powerband
2nd = Keep as a starting gear (like 1st in an ordinary car)
3rd-6th = keep as cruising gears like in ordinary cars
7th = give it a low ratio so it's like the corvette reving low at higher speeds like 70+
Essentially its like the 6spd BMW uses now, but with another gear to help improve fuel economy both in the city and highway. This way you won't have tons of gear hunting to do, the car is fast when you want it, and gets great MPG when you want it.