charliemike

Yet they cost about the same. Unfortunately, there is no sport package for the V6 1LT or 2LT Camaro.

Doesn't that seem counterproductive or is GM trying to push everyone that wants great handling to a SS?

sho_nuff1997

iTrader: (2)

Are you implying the Genesis coupe has great handling?

If GM added a sport/handling package to the V6 Camaro, there would be no point in making the SS.

IMO, this comparo doesn't do well for Hyundai. The entry level Camaro keeps up with the top-end Gen coupe. It's like comparing an M3 to an A4 and ending up with similar stats between the two.

charliemike

Wow ... I will never understand domestic apologists I guess.

sho_nuff1997

iTrader: (2)

Domestic apologist?

chungkopi

gusy, seriously go test drive gen coupe before saying which one is better than which. it's an awesome car to drive. sure numbers are bit disappointing, but just sit on it and drive one. i bet you can't stop smiling. i actually enjoyed alot more than 370Z. basically hyundai build me a best DD for me. it looks great in person as well.


basically every publication said that it's an almost near perfect car for its price. i totally agree with that statement.

chungkopi

it's faster and handles better. it feels much quicker too.

chungkopi

basically same horsepower, gen coupe is lighter, but camaro has more torque and price is very similar. i'm glad they compared it to v6. vs v6. and seriously when it's all said and done, gen coupe will be had 2-3 below msrp. camaro? don't even think about it.

i'll take gen coupe in a heart beat. i'm not macho enough to drive the camaro. it looks too american muscle car for me. lol

chungkopi

-but of course, i'm more excited about the 2.0T which will be my next car.


http://www.modified.com/offshore/mod...upe/index.html

2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe - You Asked For It, Hyundai Nailed It
First Drive ’10 Hyundai Genesis Coupe

Modp 0905 01 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe Front Cornering
Some 15 years ago, there was this TV commercial where Charles Barkley stepped into a Hyundai Sonata and tried to sound all hard as he said, “You got a problem with that? I didn’t think so.” The goal was to intimidate us into respecting the Korean automobile manufacturer, but really all anybody could do was laugh. If the car could make an NBA star look phony, what would one of us look like driving one?

During this year’s Super Bowl, Hyundai took another shot at boosting its image, but this time the car was the star. The 30 seconds of watching that little coupe roast its rear tires around the apexes of Road Atlanta completely made up for the lackluster first half of the game. Every car enthusiast was thinking the same thing: “I wish I was the one driving that car right now.” But nobody wanted to say it out loud, because the stigma still exists.

For years, the sport compact community has been begging for an inexpensive RWD chassis. Honda’s S2000 and Nissan/Infiniti’s Z and G are all great cars, but none of them is really considered entry level. What we’ve wanted is something like the 240SX. More specifically, we would like a JDM Silvia version with a turbocharged engine, decent styling and a price point that leaves us with some extra cash for making modifications.

When the rumors started spreading that Hyundai was building exactly what we’d been asking for, most enthusiasts responded with a great deal of skepticism rather than celebration. If one of the big three Japanese manufacturers had built it, people would likely be placing deposits sight unseen. But for the Genesis Coupe, we wanted to see exactly what we were going to get before getting our hopes to high. Well, the specifications have finally been released and we have driven the various production versions. The car is now here, and our initial impressions are that it’s everything we’d hoped for and more.

Modp 0905 03 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe Interior
So far there are twelve different option packages to choose from, starting at $22,000 for the base model and going north of $31,000 from there. But don’t be put off by the wide price range. The higher-priced version is a Grand Touring class car with a big V-6, automatic transmission, leather, moonroof, the works. If you’re looking for something like a G37, then by all means it is worth checking out. But it’s the base model with the turbocharged four-cylinder that really has us excited.

The engine comes from the Global Engine Manufacturing Alliance, a joint venture between Chrysler, Mitsubishi and Hyundai. While there are slight differences in valvetrain, block reinforcement and piston profiles, the Genesis’ 2-liter, four-cylinder engine is virtually identical to the 4B11 found in the EVO X. It even has a Mitsubishi TD04H series turbocharger, which according to Hyundai, is capable of producing 15 psi of boost. The claimed output of 210 bhp on 87-octane fuel suggests there is a lot of power to be gained simply by upping the boost and retuning the ECU. Add in the potential power gains from aftermarket hard-parts and this engine mated to the standard 6-speed manual transmission should kick some serious butt.

There are six different trim packages available for the four-cylinder, the one that we recommend is the R-Spec, which will be available later this year. It includes all of the available performance options, drops the non-essentials and comes in with an MSRP of $23,750. For that, you lose the HID headlights, cruise control, rear spoiler and a few other fluff items. What you gain are staggered 19-inch wheels with Bridgestone RE050A summer-compound tires, massive Brembo four-piston fixed calipers at all four corners, a torsen-type limited-slip differential and a quick ratio steering rack. It also includes their track version suspension, which has a beefed up spring and damper setup, and thicker antiroll bars. But don’t go thinking it’s a bare-bones race car. Power windows, air conditioning, a six-speaker stereo and a keyless entry system are all standard. That is a lot of car for $23,750.

Hyundai’s engineers claim that the chassis has a bending rigidity 24 percent stiffer than that of a BMW E46 M3 Coupe. While thrashing the Genesis Coupe at our local Streets of Willow Springs racetrack, there were no symptoms that indicated otherwise. A single touch of one button completely disables the traction control system, allowing the driver to wring everything they can out of it. In stock form, the 3.8-liter V-6 version with its claimed 306 bhp was considerably more fun to drive than the 2-liter turbo. Most of the corners required delicate use of the throttle to keep the back end from stepping out. This was not the case with the stock four-banger, it spent a lot more time at WOT. However, we suspect that it won’t cost much to push the output of the R-Spec beyond that of the stock V-6. With the turbo car weighing in 100 lbs lighter than the V-6, we expect them to be the superior choice once the tuning gets started.

Some aftermarket companies already have a head start on development. As most of you saw on Rhys Millen’s Genesis (Jan. ’09 cover), he has the molds to produce carbon-fiber body panels. The fenders are a little wider than stock, but a little extra room for tire clearance never hurt anybody. A good start might be his front bumper, which ducts incoming air through a relocated intercooler and out through his vented hood. According to him, this vastly improves the efficiency of the intercooler and the setup could easily go into mass production. As you’ll see on page 116, HKS has also built its own version and the thing is absolutely gorgeous. After actually driving the production versions of the new Genesis Coupe and seeing the respected tuners that are supporting it, we can honestly endorse this new Hyundai. You got a problem with that?

JD23

Who said "wins easily?" I didn't. The difference is handling is about more than the track package, it's about size and weight. The bigger and heavier Camaro is going to feel less comfortable around the turns, regardless of the suspension package. If the Camaro weighed a few hundred pounds less, it could be closer to a true sports car, rather than a muscle car.

Costco

Interesting, Google revealed all. Hyundai isn't just receiving loans from the government.... it is almost as much a government funded operation as the IRS is!!

Thanks for chiming in

Still comparing the basic V6 I see... you still don't get it. Its like a base Corolla handling just as well as a Civic Si. Or an ES350 posting up similar skidpad numbers and track times as a TL SH-AWD.

Have you ever driven the 2-ton E39 M5 sedan? Despite being a fat pig, its incredibly light on its feet for its size and inherently stable. and I still can't believe you're talking about how the Genesis coupe is this much lighter than the Camaro, this and that, and you even compared it to a 2800 lb S2000.

If the Genesis coupe was re-engineered to have the Tau V8 in the engine bay, it would weigh a lot closer to the Camaro SS. Additional bracing to handle the torque of the V8, larger engine bay to accommodate, beefier supporting components like the transmission, axles, differential, etc. and yet the V8 Mustang GT weighs within a few dozen lbs of the V6 Genesis coupe. The GC is not this featherweight you're making it out to be.



wow..... you really don't know me or shonuff. I suggest you end it there.... I am not a domestic-championing counterpart of msl at all. Just so I don't start rambling on for pages and pages, I'll just say I was against the bailouts since day 1 and was all for bankruptcy.

sho_nuff1997

iTrader: (2)

Since the Camaro is not a "true sports car", do you think it makes the Gen coupe look good to have the same or worse stats than the Camaro?

A better comparo would have been the Grand Touring Gen coupe vs the V6 Camaro. That way when the GT Gen coupe got beat, you could say "it's not a true sports car".

JD23

The Camaro apologists are beginning to crack me up. I haven't even argued that the Genesis is better overall than the Camaro; I simply made the observation that the Genesis is more nimble and handles better than the larger and heavier Camaro. Others here are so blinded by their Camaro love that they have decided that the Camaro is better than the Genesis in every aspect. I'm waiting for someone to argue that the Camaro has better expected reliability.

JD23

I never said it's a featherweight, but its approximately 400 lbs. lighter than the Camaro. The reviews posted in this thread (please watch part 2 of the MT review) have commented that the difference in weight is noticeable and that the Genesis is more comfortable in corners. Regardless of what you will argue about the suspension of the Camaro SS, which may be very good, the weight will hamper its handling. If you think that physics can be cheated and weight is irrelevant, you may want to go back to school.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

getting hot in this thread

chungkopi

and gen coupe has a shitty pads, kinda unfortunate for this master piece.

chungkopi

i highly doubt it. genesis sedan weighs 4012lb and it's humongous. v8 gen coupe should be around 3700lb ish.

Costco

I have the full service receipts for my car dating back to the original build sheet.... and judging from how well it runs now I would have no problem driving it from here to Florida if I had to despite being close to eclipsing 90,000 miles. I don't expect it to have better reliability, since I don't know too much about 3.8 V6 is from Hyundai, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Camaro turns out to be a reliable car.

the only things that ever went out on my car were the radio and 12-disc CD changer. Not a big deal, the original radio isn't in there anymore anyway and I only listen to my iPod. Both the radio and changer are Delco electronics units.... made by Delphi, which made the ECM for the Genesis sedan which actually had a recall.

I never said weight is irrelevant either.... hell if anything I've never approved of the Camaro's weight. The Camaro is based on the same Zeta platform which the G8 is based off of, and in reviews comparing the G8 and 5-series the magazines were saying they were toe-to-toe; the chassis is further tweaked and its lighter in the Camaro's case.

You probably never knew this but I was HIGHLY skeptical and critical of the new Camaro before it ever came out. I didn't like the styling at first and I knew it was going to be a boat because of the aforementioned Zeta body. I was convinced that I would never get one, let alone want one. But after seeing how the G8 was stacking up and now how the Camaro is.... I'm pretty surprised. I'm not lying - in the Camaro thread a few months back I was even complaining about the mats on the pre-pro car not matching exactly

Obviously the weight is noticeable and the SS would handle even better if it were lighter, but people are making a mountain out of a molehill. You are the only one saying its closer to a muscle car than a sports car; all of the magazines and websites have said the opposite, or at least most of them imply it.


This thread is making me look bad, even. I actually LIKE the Genesis coupe, a lot! I was really convinced I'd be in one a while back when I heard that the 2.0T was based off of the Evo X's 4B11. I'm sure it will be an excellent car.... to each his own.

Costco

3700 lbs! That's a boat!

In all seriousness though, even if it did, the cost would spike up a bit also to make up for all the tooling and R&D, etc. I'm kinda glad Hyundai went the route they did.... they have more options, including the turbo-4 for those who want the lower fuel economy. Also allows them to undercut the competition a bit. It looks to be a very good car mechanically but the general car buying public still needs a lot of convincing and every little bit helps.

This is way mild compared to debates I've seen/taken part in from the past It is getting good though.

chungkopi

Genesis Coupe VS 350z (1)
YouTube - Genesis Coupe VS 350z (1)

Genesis Coupe VS 350z (2)
YouTube - Genesis Coupe VS 350z

genesis coupe vs 350z (3)
YouTube - genesis coupe vs 350z (3)

genesis coupe v6 vs corvette c5
YouTube - genesis coupe v6 vs corvette c5

chungkopi

one thing no one is mentioning is GM build quality. i'm still very skeptical about it. I think they are turning things around, but still it's not up there.

http://jalopnik.com/5232715/first-ca...rom-dealership
http://jalopnik.com/5222908/2010-che...-brake-weights
http://jalopnik.com/5238125/camaro-g...-at-high-speed

not trying to bash camaro, but i've rented almost every GM cars for last 10 years, and it's sub par. and i remember seeing SS in autoblog, and the color of front bumper didn't even match. these little things scare me.

i've closely examined gen coupe in 3 different occasion including a 20 minute long test drive, and it's build quality is flawless. Hyundai really is making huge strides at making quality cars. gen coupe's fit/finish puts my acura cls into a shame. again, only thing i would change is the silver dash material that were used on most of hyundai's. it's too shiny IMO. and looking at their new offerings, i have no doubt hyundai quality will never be questioned again.

JD23

I agree that the new Camaro appears to be impressive and is a significant upgrade from the previous Camaros and its chief competition (Mustang). Although I'm not pleased about the loans given to GM, I hope that GM continues to produce competitive vehicles like the Camaro and the CTS, and is able to turn around its financial performance over the next few years.

I admit that I am somewhat prejudiced against the Camaro based on the experiences I had with my friend's mid 90s Camaro. That car was a real clunker; it had severe electrical problems, a suspension that creaked when going around sharp turns, and an interior that was disintegrating.

I may be wrong about the Camaro being a muscle car, but it was mentioned in the Motortrend review. The Mustang is still the Camaro's closest competitor and is undoubtedly a muscle car.

Overall, it's great for enthusiasts that both Hyundai and GM have produced impressive sports coupes at a reasonable price. Only a fanboy would proclaim that one is clearly better than the other.

aleks

So if Hyundai has made huge strides in the last few years why would it not be possible for GM to do so as well? When I think about Hyundai of 10 years ago I think of huge piles of crap. But now that's not the case anymore.

On a side note I've compared both interiors and they are both nothing special IMO but the for the price and power these cars put out I don't expect more.

I was really excited about the 2.0T motor but it seems that it's really underwhelming in stock trim according to early reviews.

sho_nuff1997

iTrader: (2)

I am hardly a Camaro apologist. I never said the Gen wasn't nimble. In fact, I said "of course it's more nimble". I have been a fan of the Gen coupe since inception. I think it is funny that all the Hyundai apologists try discount the V6 Camaro eventhough it kept up with a track tuned sports car. I personally would never buy a V6 Camaro.

Your expected reliability is about as meaningful as C&D's "gotta have it factor". It's pretty hard to argue reliability of either car since they both were just released.

JD23

It's impossible to know for sure, but Hyundai has significantly better fleet reliability than GM, so it's probable that the Genesis will have better reliability.

sho_nuff1997

iTrader: (2)

You don't answer questions and you keep changing your stance/argument....Barack, is that you?

JD23

I'm going to refrain from personal attacks, but it is very difficult to have a reasonable discussion with you. Let me break my argument down into bite sized chunks that you may be able to comprehend.

1. GM has poor fleet reliability.
2. Hyundai has above average fleet reliability.
3. Therefore, all evidence suggests that the Genesis will be more reliable than the Camaro.

By your logic, all reliability data is invalid. Since reliability data is extracted from a large sample size, individual cars may deviate significantly from the mean. For example, even if the Camaro has poor reliability and the Genesis has great reliability, it will be possible to find a single Camaro that is more reliable than a single Genesis. Without a crystal ball, it is impossible to say whether the Genesis will be more reliable than the Camaro, but all evidence suggests that it will. At this point, I think you are arguing for the sake of arguing. Please try to make a point for once.

sho_nuff1997

iTrader: (2)

I asked you this question a few posts back: "Since the Camaro is not a "true sports car", do you think it makes the Gen coupe look good to have the same or worse stats than the Camaro?" Which was deflected to expected reliability, which in turn was deflected to fleet reliability. That is what led me to the Barack comment.

It is clear that you don't read my posts, because I never said all reliabilty data is invalid. I said "expected reliability" is meaningless.

I never said that the Camaro is better than the Genesis in every facet simply because it's a Camaro. I am saying that GM has done a good job with it's entry level Camaro if it can keep up with a lighter, track tuned car. Why is that so hard to understand?

JD23

Expected reliability isn't meaningless, you just choose to ignore it because it doesn't help your argument in this case. Here is a hypothetical situation: If Lexus and Audi both released new models, do you think no assumptions could be made regarding the expected reliability of these two models, even though Audi has likely never had a model that was as reliable as a Lexus during the past 15 years?

I didn't address your question about the stats of the Camaro and the Genesis because it was a question that didn't warrant a response. I'd assume you already would know that a sports car is about more than stats; steering feel and handling, for example, cannot be easily quantified. If you read the comparisons of the two cars, you will see that the Genesis is considered to have superior steering feel and handling in all of the reviews. Furthemore, the Genesis does not have the same or worse stats than the V6 Camaro, so your question isn't even valid. Per the C&D review, the Genesis is 0.4 s quicker to 60 mph and 0.3 s quicker in the 1/4 mile. Yes, the Camaro SS has much more straightline speed than the Genesis, but as I said before, I believe a sports car is about much more than straightline speed.

If you read my post above, you'll see that I applauded GM for making the Camaro competitive once again. It seems to irk you that I won't admit that the Camaro is clearly better, because I don't believe it is. Oh, and you compared me to Obama for being evasive. Given your past few posts, I could compare you to GW Bush for lacking intellectual curiosity. And this is coming from a Republican.

Costco

I'm still waiting for them to compare the Camaro SS and Mustang GT to the Gen coupe. I don't see why they shouldn't, considering they've even compared the V6 GC and G37 to each other, despite a nearly $15,000 as-tested gap. It speaks volumes about how much of a great deal the GC is.

Straight-line speed aside, torquey V8s are just addicting. The sound and the all-over power under the curve is immensely satisying, and even driving it around town is fun. The S2000 is a superior car to the 4th gen F-body in almost every way, but I just don't know if I can drive an S2000 daily.... it just feels like something important is missing. You could say I'm still disappointed somewhat that they didn't manage to put the Tau V8 in the GC from the factory.

sho_nuff1997

iTrader: (2)

Yes, assumptions will be made, but that doesn't make them anything more than assumptions. The fact remains, that debating reliability between these two models is moot.


Again, you stated the Camaro is not a sports car. Yet it performs as good as a sports car. Does that not say something about the car?


In the MT video on the last page, the Camaro beat the Gen in the 60-0 stop by 7 feet.


You did?


Neither do I.

yohan81718

Because only Equus gets Tau for now in Korea. They decided to put it on Genesis in US market because of competitors. Genesis Coupe benchmarked off of G35, why would they drop V8 in there? To me, it sounds stupid to put V8 on it. Normally, other than few domestic cars, V8 is only dropped in lux models or high performance cars. GC doesn't belong in neither segment.

JD23

It's not a fact, and debating reliability isn't moot. Even if a definitive conclusion cannot be made, ignoring all available information is downright foolish. Neither of us will convince the other of this point, so this continued debate is pointless.


You cite the one test that the Camaro won, and ignore the tests that I cited, which show the Genesis on top. Remember how you said the Genesis has "the same or worse stats than the Camaro." Now you seem to be the one deflecting.

Please read post #1221. I guess that was another piece of information you avoided because it doesn't support your argument.

sho_nuff1997

iTrader: (2)

Debating reliability is not moot. I simply said, debating the reliability of cars that have not been proven to be reliable/unreliable is pointless.





I was using the word same too loosely. I should have said close. I'll take the gig on that one.




I thought you were referring to a reply towards me.

chungkopi

have you seen the camaro's interior material? i think they used the same plastic used in pt cruiser. it's a big turn off for me. hyundai's interior is not offensive. it just look like 25-27k car, nothing more, nothing less.

anyway, i just feel like build quality wise gen coupe is definitely above camaro IMO.

and read that article above about 2.0T. 2.0T is awesome. it's definitely for for tuners. we asked for it and hyundai delivered the perfect inexpensive RWD turbo coupe. i can't ask for more. it's going to be my next car.

AlterZgo

I don't think this makes sense. If I wanted an SS, it would be for the 400+ hp V8 more than anything else. I wouldn't even consider the V6 even if it had the same identical suspension, rims and tires as the SS.

Additionally, your analogy also seems flawed. You're implying that it matters that the Genesis was a top of the line model. Shoppers don't think that way. They think in terms of cost, feature sets, etc. It doesn't really matter that the Genesis in the comparo was their top model whereas the Camaro was a V6 because they are comparing V6 sport coupes in the $25K range.

FWIW, I would personally take the V6 Camaro over the Genesis. The performance is close enough, but the Camaro is just ridiculously HOT!

YEH

Exactly - the SS and the Mustang GT would blow the Cayman out of the water, but neither come close to the driving dynamics, handling and steering feel of the Porsche.

And by all accounts, the Gen Track is better than the G37s on the track.

charliemike

I figured as much.

sho_nuff1997

iTrader: (2)

The point I was trying to make, is that it would be stupid for GM to make the V6 Camaro perform anywhere near the SS.

sho_nuff1997

iTrader: (2)

What did you figure?

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

this car looks so much better in person.