fsttyms1

Hyundai 5 years ago isnt the hyundai of today. Hyundai is working hard to change its image. Its not going to happen overnight but they are making HUGE strides. That is what you dont understand. Get out in the REAL world and quit reading outdated crap, crap from worthless reporting sources and see what is actually out there. You might be surprised.

fsttyms1

And go test drive some of these vehicles you shit on, report back and be honest

SSFTSX

surely every source is worthless. have u looked it who did this scientific study.

Every one is working hard. Ford had premier Autogroup, GM was world largest automater, Toyota had the largest profits, and Nissan was Japan second largest Auto firm for 40 years.
But its only Honda that its wealth and brand is protected around the world is miles ahead of the rest of competition in light weight material (what do u think Honda Jet is made off), Industrial robots, aerodynamics, 4WD tech etc.

Hyundi is stilll a baby after 30 years in this business. It is entering too many fields & markets at same time. without having a brand image to back it up. small mistake and company will be gone like Chrysler.

knavinusa

The fact that I'm seeing more and more of these new models on the road nowadays shows people are at least starting to consider Hyundai as an alternative to Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc.

chungkopi

Hyundai is 4th largest car company in the world. they know what they are doing. I've recently visited Antigua & Barbuda for a vacation. Tucson, and Sportage are everywhere. last time i visited there, CRV dominated the market. I talked to locals and they told me Hyundai is starting to take over ever since new designs came out. and i visited their crappy Hyundai dealer. they told me no Tucsons last more than a week on their lot.

It's not just happening in Antigua. It's happening everywhere.

let's face the reality. Hyundai has leapfrogged Honda. while Honda is trying to screw the design of the new Civic, Hyundai is probably working on a new 3 series fighter based on Genesis.

Complacency by Honda? maybe. but it's more of Hyundai having their mojo going with unmatched ambition.

Hyundai will pull a Samsung. just watch.

Costco

Is Hyundai the 4th largest car company in the world in terms of car sales? I know they're a big company outside of car sales, but....

Honda is a small car company and that's just their way. I don't think they'll ever get to the size of GM/Toyota/Ford and I'm not sure that they care either. Hyundai is definitely on it's way there though. Hyundai is definitely the new Honda... back in the 60's or 70's Hondas sucked ass, supposedly (one of my auto instructors told me about the vacuum hose nightmare that he had before) then gradually into the 80's and 90's the public started taking their cars more seriously and considering them as replacements for the cars they were so used to but slowly degraded in quality. Hyundai is going through the same thing right now, but their quality seems great.

yohan81718

meh. let SSFTSX think what he wants to believe. who gives shit about his opinion here

SSFTSX

Hyundai is 4th largest?
So what r those Toyota/VW/GM/Ford?. I dont see Hyundai fitting there.

And Fiat leapfrog Honda by taking whole Chrysler brand along with Ferrari/Lancia
surely Hyundai has mojo thats why it is taking them so long to launch premium brand.? Honda atleast launch vehicles either ahead in US like TSX or at about same time. Hyundai testes its vehicles more in home country before releasing into US. and Honda was doing that decades ago.
I will wait for the 10 year warranties impact on financial results and customer perception once they are in 7 or 8 years. You have to take long view of the business. It is not dell computer.
Once Honda lunches new engines/transmissions. i dont see any future for Hyundai.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/mart...-jd-power-says
Honda Has Most Repeat Customers, J.D. Power Says



Samsung success has nothing to do with Korea. it is just coincidence of timing of certain events just like Airbus pulled ahead of Boeing.
but difference is not it is no longer economical for Japanese to compete on house consumer just like Germans/US long abandon consumer electronics. this thing will shift to taiwan/China.
Auto like Aerospace business is very different story.

Costco

Apparently there are still a few people that do... How they are still sane, I don't know.

I just saw the RMR edition Equus

chungkopi

should've said Hyundai/Kia

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/08/18/h...est-automaker/

http://www.worldcarfans.com/10908192...gest-automaker


4th largest, last time i checked in 2009. but maybe 5th right now because Ford has been hot lately. my point is that Hyundai is a huge company. they are not some up and coming company anymore. Hyundai is a volume seller. And it's growing globally at an incredible rate. and just by looking the sales in India and China, Hyundai won't go anywhere. Hyundai will eventually outsell both Ford and GM sometime this decade.

chungkopi

I do wish they did launch the premium brand, but they are thinkin $$. it's just too much money and too much of a risk. right now Genesis and Equus are doing great job helping Hyundai's image.

and when the time is right, they are fool if they don't start building a stand alone luxury dealers for the new luxury brand. and by the time when they are really thinkin about the luxury brand.


Oh by the way, Hyundai is likely to launch the Genesis brand in U.K.
http://www.cardealermagazine.co.uk/p...rm-in-uk/44397

yohan81718

haha i actually wanna meet who this clown is though.. and make friends with him if possible.. he sounds like a cool dude

regarding equus, i know!!! at least, they could've spend few more minutes rendering the image.. looks pretty amateur job ot me

chungkopi

and when did I ever say Samsung has anything to do with Korea?
I'm just predicting Hyundai will become a biggest car company in the world just like how Samsung became the biggest company in electronics. Samsung came from nowhere too. Samsung was a perennial 2nd tier. not too long ago Sony outsold Samsung 5 to 1 or something close to it.

i really think it's inevitable IMO. i'm gonna say by 2025 or so. and that's being generous.

yohan81718

i would think that hyundai will become pretty big too.. not sure about "biggest"
but that's just the way koreans do..
not saying it's a good practice, but they always want to be the top
and the way they think about making money and how it implements to their work ethic, i wouldn't doubt they can become bigger and better than who they are right now
hyundai will put their shoulders next to toyota/honda/nissan within this decade i would think

fsttyms1

Maybe they werent positioned to do so sooner. Just because they didnt bring one out sooner doesnt make them less of a success or more of a failure like you like to believe.

They are however doing more than Honda is now. Honda can only rest on its name so long before it bites them. I see more Hyundai's on the road now than Hondas. And they are by far the better looking vehicle.

SSFTSX

Ok. so what r those bold steps that ur proclaiming? F1? Aerocomposite structures?
Hyundai has Starbucks philsophy of store in every corner now selling the cheapest stuff there and hoping the some one will pickup the expensive one accidently by parking cheap and expensive at same place.

Honda is resting? what r those SUVs/Minivan around the world that Honda sells. Acura China sells are now approaching Acura Canada sells. and in US market SUV are now almost 50% of sells if u add Honda Crosstour to SUV segment.

better looking Hyundai. No. They dont fit the character of segment. Accord looks far better for family sedan. Honda Civic Coupe look far better in its segment.

Just look at the size. this how u sell only $100k cars by putting it inside imposing buildings. I am not even going to show Honda Dubai Showroom.
Honda has super expensive realestate around the world. and has one of the best showrooms.

fsttyms1

Man you cant read can you. The bold steps are them going from the economy company they were building cheap cars to a company taking steps to go forward and upmarket. They have released 2 cars now that actually fit into a segment far better than any acura. Acura cant even come up with a car set for a specific segment. That is the bold step.

Yes honda is sleeping. They have the some of the worst, blandest most boring designs out there, are being passed up with technology. There isnt a car they make that i would take over a Hyundai right now. Yes, they do fit the character segment. And YES Hyundai is better looking and Most people agree.


And please explain to me what the HELL that last picture has to do with any thing?

pttl

^
It's another non sequitur....an Acura (All Hail!) in an "imposing showroom" on expensive real estate.

yohan81718

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bb3q...layer_embedded


not bad at all

Costco

Now that's cool. Paper owner's manuals get boring after a once over, basically

Moog-Type-S

Reminds me of the DVD manual I got with my old MINI.

yohan81718

so.. they projected 2000 units annually in North America.. and they sold 196 units in december

not sure how the auto markets run by monthly, but so far, knowing that it was their first month, it's not too bad i guess

Hapa DC5

Curious to see one in the flesh. Definitely like the IPAD owners manual.

biker

The more interesting thing to know is if the Equus buyers were shopping in the market Hyundai is aiming for - the LS, 7 series, A8, S class crowd. Are those 196 sales lost by that market?

YEH

H/K is still the 4th largest; Ford Europe is having a tough go and Ford is behind in the 3 of the 4 fastest growing large automarkets (China, India and Russia) where H/K are among the leaders.

I'd say the LS would have the most to worry about; as for the 7/S Class, more likely people looking at the 5/E Class but wanting more room, amenities for the price.

Anway, Car & Driver compared the Equus w/ the LS460L and ended up picking the Equus.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests

And according to the editors at Ward's the 5.0L Tau is "delicious."

http://wardsauto.com/reports/2011/te...5L_V-8_101216/

YEH

Hmmm, speaking of "neutral turf", Hyundai is ranked no.1 for reliability by AutoBild, which is generally considered to have the most comprensivce analysis for reliability in the industry.

Also...

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...22/488312.html


<!-- end intellitext -->

fsttyms1

In the latest C&D the new Equus came in first against the LS. Id say that should get the attention of ALL the big manufacturers.

HondaOnWORKS

Designs are very opinion based. You can't really claim they have the worst design out, because some people will disagree with you. A lot of people still like the design even with the Chrome on the Acura cars. I known people that said the current generation Civic and Accord looks good and shape. Old generation Acura such as 1G TSX and 3G TL claims to be cute cars by girls I know. Even the 2G TSX looks cute to girls. I'm saying design on cars can be very different depending on the audience. To claim that they have one of the worst design out on the market is insane.

I think the Tech on their car is pretty up to date... besides the fact the TL doesn't have a 6spd AT, and I think the TSX doesn't need a 6spd AT yet because its pulling good MPG with a 5spd AT.

VTEC Racer

I agree. The LS is already the car for people who don't/can't pony up the additional $25,000 for the admission price of an S550. It's the car that people get because it is cheaper than an S class or 7 Series. With the Hyundai being $10k cheaper and now rated higher than the LS by C&D, the LS has the most to lose here. I can see the LS and Hyundai being cross-shopped whereas buyers of the S-class or 7-series probably don't even know what an Equus is.

biker

^ they do, but their snobishness might prevent them from buying one.

charliemike

It might be but I think what Hyundai should be doing is looking at giving people that were going to buy something in the $60k range (like a 535i for example) the chance to have an ownership experience like a Maybach ... Rather than trying to convince a S550 shopper to buy a Hyundai.

Since there's no need to ever go to a Hyundai dealer if you buy an Eqqus, if I liked the car and was looking for that size vehicle I would definitely consider one ... It's not more car than a LS but maybe more car than a M56 and a better ownership experience.

charliemike

Just to follow up, I sat in the Eqqus twice in the last few weeks at the Washington, DC and Baltimore Auto Shows.

I came away impressed with the car but thinking that they cut a corner in one of the most obvious places - The leather.

It's a step below what my 2005 S4 had and I find that to be a problem. It's not that the car itself isn't impressive. It is ... But I found that the gadgets and such simply could not outweigh the fact that if I was the target demographic for the Eqqus and my peer/colleague/friend had a 2011 Audi A6 that the Audi owner would sit in my Eqqus and feel like he made the smarter buy.

If I'm buying a car for status (and let's face it, if I bought an Eqqus-class car I would be), I do not want it to be blatantly obvious where I cheaped out.

Maybe it's slower than the Audi. Maybe it's a bit louder than the BMW 5-series. Maybe it doesn't have the technological wizardry of the newest E-Class.

That's fine but what I want if I buy an Eqqus is for people to sit in it and go, "Wow. This is a Hyundai? How is this car $65k? That's what my A6 3.0T cost me!"

Eqqus 1.0 does not quite get there yet.

Costco

I thought the Equus was supposed to compete with the LS, 7-series, S-Class, and A8? I guess in that regard it's a disappointment, winning out mainly in price if it doesn't compare to the A6. I mean, it does have reclining rear seats and all, something you tend to only see in those LWB high-luxury models.

I generally see the Genesis sedan being compared to the 5-series, GS, etc. so it would make sense for this to be an LS competitor.

It's Equus, by the way

charliemike

Fucking Latin

I hear what you're saying but I keep trying to argue (with futility) that the Equus' value proposition is a LS-class car for an E-class price. Which should mean that the Equus gets compared to the E-Class and not the LS/S/7-series. Because if it did, it'd get hammered.

But maybe against an A6/535i/E350 it'd be good enough to go with it.

Certainly there are people that wouldn't buy a S-Class and would rather have an E-Class. But I think that if the money were the same, they'd buy the S350 instead of the E350.

Which means that the Equus v. E-Class does have some validity.

Or something

fsttyms1

I havent sat in teh Equus but i find it hard to believe that the leather is that much of a let down. My dads genesis leather is nicer than my friends 2010 A4 s line, and he agrees. And as far as the being louder? It was quieter than just about every car made in the last test i saw?

charliemike

I didn't think it was on par with the A6 ... The Audi silk nappa leather is amazing.

But to your other point, those were hypotheticals. My larger point was that even if it didn't score the best in one particular category (like decibels at 70mph) that it would be good enough across the board to be better than anything else at that price.

I just didn't word it very well I guess

csmeance

I think you may be a bit misinformed about the LS. The LS isn't a cheap S550 or 7 series, if anything it's a car that competes with the A8, 7 Series, and S-class.

People buy the LS because of Lexus reliability and other aspects such as design, comfort, etc over the 7 series or the S-Class or the A8. When you reach territory of the big cars like these, it's not about value but what the consumer wants. Little things aren't an issue like MPG or this gas tax. The car has to fit the person buying it. I drove the LS and it felt to boat-like. The S-class felt close to the same. The only thing I felt happy driving was the A8 or the 7-series.

I took the 7 because I didn't want to wait for a W12 in Ibis white to pop up at an inflated price since their seldom made in other colors besides Black, grey or silver.

knavinusa

I agree. The regular leather in the A4 isn't that great, but the nappa leather is definitely nice.

TSX69

Hyundai Equus: Impersonating a Lexus @ the Luxury Car Ball

FOR top luxury cars, there’s an old saw about prices: if you have to ask, you can’t afford it. Hyundai clearly feels there’s no harm in asking, especially in a shaky economy. How else to explain the Equus, its new priced-to-sell luxury sedan?

This $60,000 Lexus-baiting limo will look like an alien battleship at Hyundai dealerships, hovering over the Elantras and Tucsons. But to owners of the Lexus LS 460, the better sci-fi reference is “Invasion of the Body Snatchers”: from its design to its powertrain to its features, the Hyundai seems a virtual copy of the Lexus, such a crib that it might hail from Shanghai, not South Korea.

Of course, that’s how Lexus began its Trojan horse conquest of America in 1990, by imitating a Mercedes but selling the impostor for $35,000 — seemingly a lot at the time for a social-climbing Toyota, but some $27,000 less than a Benz 420SEL.

Today, cars in this league can top $100,000, but the idea is the same. Coming from the 21st-century discount king, the Equus looks to kick Lexus and the Germans in the shins while cutting their prices off at the knees.

The Equus starts at $58,900 for the Signature model, compared with nearly $73,000 for the long-wheelbase version of the Lexus. But the de facto price spread is wider, because the feature-stuffed Hyundai doesn’t offer a single extra-cost option.

Choose the Ultimate edition at $65,400, and the Equus goes feature-to-feature with a loaded LS 460 L that tops $97,000 — right down to the Lexus’s plush rear quarters with its right-side reclining chair, which not only heats, cools and massages a pampered passenger, but comes with a power footrest, DVD entertainment and a refrigerator in the center console that awaits a bottle of bubbly or Capri Suns for your coddled children.

Clearly, big spenders can feel like big savers if they choose the Hyundai. Automotive Lease Guide, whose resale estimates help automakers set lease rates, figures the Equus will lose 50% of its value after 3 years, which ties it with the Lexus for the least depreciation in the class.

So toast the Equus buyer for financial intelligence. And if you limit driving expectations to what the Lexus does so well — it’s still 1 of the world’s most tranquil cruisers — the Hyundai acquits itself with surprising grace.

But Hyundai’s money-saving strategy, successful in more affordable cars, may be less convincing in the C.E.O. class, where spending more is no sin.

Remember, too, that the Equus enters a luxury market that’s vastly more crowded and sophisticated than when Lexus saw its big chance. In 1990, Mercedes was the complacent benchmark, Jaguar was in steep decline and Audi was a blip on the radar. Today, the Lexus LS — the target at which Hyundai has taken dead aim — is hardly the benchmark, but the oldest car in a class overflowing with superb choices.

Personally, if I traded a BMW 7 Series, Audi A8, Mercedes S-Class or Jaguar XJ for this Hyundai, I’d cry myself to sleep at night. The tears would have less to do with brand prestige than with the Equus’s amorphous styling, unpersuasive interior and mild performance.

My wife, Carmen, spent about 20 minutes in the Equus before the atmosphere turned chilly, and it wasn’t because of the body-cooling seats.

“This is the knockoff Louis Vuitton bag you bought in Chinatown,” she said. “It looks cheap, and you’re not fooling anyone.”

Like those street-corner goods, the Equus’s styling rings bells. But there’s something a bit off about the materials, textures and execution. What’s missing is the craftsmanship and design brio that characterize the real deal.

Most cars in this class look big yet graceful; the Hyundai just looks big. The grille is so generic it recalls those hastily drawn Taiwanese news animations of Tiger Woods’s crashed S.U.V. There’s no pride in that face.

The logo also seems lost in translation: if the Equus is a horse, why is there a winged bird on the steering wheel?

The Lexus’s best feature remains its pharaoh-worthy tomb of a cabin, still one of the best places to spend an afterlife of long-distance travel. But aside from the dizzying features list, the Hyundai’s cabin seems on par with $50,000 luxury cars, not 6-figure heads of state. Passengers especially noted the mediocre leather.

The alcantara headliner feels coarse; some switches look plasticky and lack precision. And there’s no trace of a designer’s signature, as in the haute-couture Audi or the swinging London Jag.

Yet every good student begins by mimicking his masters. The Lexus’s 4.6-liter V-8 produces 380 horsepower and 367 pound-feet of torque. The Hyundai’s 4.6-liter V-8 makes 385 horsepower and 333 pound-feet.

According to Car and Driver, the Lexus and Hyundai ran neck-and-neck in a quarter-mile sprint, at 14.5 seconds. The Lexus reached 60 m.p.h. in 6.0 seconds, the Equus in 6.1. Stopping distance from 70 m.p.h.? It was 171 feet for the Lexus, 170 for the Equus.

Did Hyundai engineers, dressed as ninjas, infiltrate Lexus headquarters?

Late this summer, the 2012 Equus will adopt a 5-liter V-8 with 429 horsepower — giving the Equus the most standard horses in its class. An 8-speed transmission will replace the current 6-speed. One wonders why Hyundai didn’t offer the Equus from the get-go with that stronger powertrain.

And if the Hyundai doesn’t quite waft over the road like the Lexus — the Rolls-Royce of Japan, only quieter — it comes comfortably close. For this type of cocooning sedan, I prefer the Lexus’s creamier steering, but the Hyundai actually felt more connected to the road, especially after switching its air suspension to Sport mode.

My aesthetic opposition to the Equus began to fade on a 4-hour highway cruise, when the car’s power, solid structure and impeccable quiet gave me less and less to complain about.

Chalking up miles in the Hyundai — soothed by its 608-watt, 17-speaker Lexicon audio system, admiring that big back seat — I kept thinking of Cadillac and Lincoln. These American brands virtually patented this type of conservative, cavernous sedan. Yet today neither offers a rear-drive V-8 luxo-barge, let alone one this comfy and lavish. If you miss your old Caddy or Town Car and have 60 grand to spend, the Equus may seem like a long-lost friend.

The Hyundai scores again with 1st-rate interfaces, including its central control knob and sharp-looking display screen for navigation, iPods and other functions. You’ll barely need to consult the manual installed on the iPad that comes free with the car.

But if you put the fancy-pants German and British cars into the mix, the comparisons are less kind. The BMW, Jaguar, Audi and Mercedes raise performance, technology and sophistication to levels you won’t find here. Yet those cars cost $20,000 to $35,000 more when similarly equipped.

With its rear center console, the Ultimate seats just 4 passengers, and the single reclining rear seat is a mild head-scratcher: while in Korea the Equus may be chauffeur-driven, Americans — and their significant others — are unlikely to ride much in that catbird seat.

John Krafcik, chief executive of Hyundai of America, says that so far Ultimate buyers tend to be empty-nesters who want to treat friends to a special ride. (My 4-year-old daughter did delight in powering up the legrest and playing with the massage functions).

To help pry buyers from big-shot brands, Hyundai is offering not only 5 years or 60,000 miles of free maintenance, but ensuring that owners don’t have to stick around to watch: a dealer valet will fetch the Equus from home or office and drop off a loaner.

That seems wise not only for customer relations, but to avoid forcing owners to share a Mr. Coffee machine at Hyundai’s dealerships, in contrast to Lexus’s elegant Toyota-free facilities.

That raises a final issue: while the company name is conspicuously absent from the Equus, this remains a Hyundai, not a stand-alone luxury brand. Ask Volkswagen how that worked with its disastrous $80,000 Phaeton sedan. Even stand-alone Infiniti and Acura, nurtured into being by Nissan and Honda, respectively, have failed to gain traction in the market for $50,000-and-up sedans.

Yet Mr. Krafcik said Hyundai was on pace to move 2,500 to 3,000 Equus models this year — the modest, market-seeding number it expected.

Business plan aside, the Equus doesn’t have an original bone it its body, and it needs seasoning. But like a Japanese newcomer 20 years ago, if this Korean upstart can make marquee names cut their bloated prices, that’s a game all luxury buyers can applaud.

PortlandRL

I sat in one a week or so ago and just can't see what all the criticism is about....I guess I'm just not lucky enough to be spoiled by S550s and LS460Ls all the time. However, I think it might have something to do with the build of the seats, not the quality of the materials. Whereas the Genesis has soft, plush seats, the ones in the Equus are firm but supportive. I think the leather feels great...not quite Lexus-soft but close enough.