Honda: Development and Technology News
11-27-2010, 01:19 PM
#1961
AZ Community Team
IMO, it would have made little is any difference. By 2008 Honda motors were OK in reliability (I checked Button's four retirements were due to spins or collisions) and were mid-field in terms of power.
I agree that MB had the most powerful powerplant of 2009 but the Brawn team had problems with integration of the powerplant with the other systems on the car. Transmission, cooling, aerodynamics,....
Ross Brawn and Nick Fry had stated in a few interviews the problems they had. Neither would go on the record to say they definitely could have won both championships but Brawn's end of the season interview (Autocourse?) stated it would have been easier with Honda for financial support for logistics and chassis development.
Brawn also said the package would have been even quicker out the door at the beginning of the 2008 season if the Honda motor had been used. He also said that had they designed the chassis for MB from the start it would have been equally good.
Honda F1's problems were majority chassis related, and not having a great technical leader like Brawn. Sticking with the Reynard technical staff from the BAR days costs the team heavily in getting a competitive chassis. Reynard's chassis success in CART did not equate to F1.
I agree that MB had the most powerful powerplant of 2009 but the Brawn team had problems with integration of the powerplant with the other systems on the car. Transmission, cooling, aerodynamics,....
Ross Brawn and Nick Fry had stated in a few interviews the problems they had. Neither would go on the record to say they definitely could have won both championships but Brawn's end of the season interview (Autocourse?) stated it would have been easier with Honda for financial support for logistics and chassis development.
Brawn also said the package would have been even quicker out the door at the beginning of the 2008 season if the Honda motor had been used. He also said that had they designed the chassis for MB from the start it would have been equally good.
Honda F1's problems were majority chassis related, and not having a great technical leader like Brawn. Sticking with the Reynard technical staff from the BAR days costs the team heavily in getting a competitive chassis. Reynard's chassis success in CART did not equate to F1.
There was one catch. Only that the winning 2009 Brawn F1 cars were powered by Mercedes engines, not by Honda engines.
Even though those 2009 Brawn cars were designed, constructed, and wind-tunneled with 100% Honda involvement, they were not powered by Honda engines.
The Honda F1 engines in the previous years were not proven to be powerful enough, nor to be reliable enough, when compared with the Renualt and the Mercedes powerplants.
But the Mercedes engines at that time were known to be the most powerful in the field, and rumored to have been generating 20-30 more hp than the next closest competitor engine : Renault.
In fact, the Mercedes engines were so powerful then that FIA had to force Mercedes to tune down the engine output for the following seasons, in order to "equalize" the amount of engine advantage by the Mercedes powered teams.
So the Brawn F1 team might not have enjoyed the same success if the cars were Brawn-Honda instead of Brawn-Mercedes.
Even though those 2009 Brawn cars were designed, constructed, and wind-tunneled with 100% Honda involvement, they were not powered by Honda engines.
The Honda F1 engines in the previous years were not proven to be powerful enough, nor to be reliable enough, when compared with the Renualt and the Mercedes powerplants.
But the Mercedes engines at that time were known to be the most powerful in the field, and rumored to have been generating 20-30 more hp than the next closest competitor engine : Renault.
In fact, the Mercedes engines were so powerful then that FIA had to force Mercedes to tune down the engine output for the following seasons, in order to "equalize" the amount of engine advantage by the Mercedes powered teams.
So the Brawn F1 team might not have enjoyed the same success if the cars were Brawn-Honda instead of Brawn-Mercedes.
Last edited by Legend2TL; 11-27-2010 at 01:26 PM.
11-27-2010, 05:57 PM
#1962
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I can tell you that after having a VTEC and VQ engines that while the VQ might becoming outdated as time goes on, its performance and acceleration characteristics are still superior. I have been able to beat if not at least keep up with almost any equivalent 6 cyl engine with the VQ. Its not as bad as some make it out to be. There is a reason Infiniti is the main competitor to BMW and not Acura.
The newer VQ with its 7500rpm can make more torque at higher rpm and thus more hp. This is something the J series can't do. I mean Honda can certainly make a high revving SOHC V6 J series, but, I'd imagine the cost would be too high and reliability and durability issues would have to be addressed.
In fact, I don't prefer any particular engine design (round heads, square heads, or even oval heads as in Honda superbikes), as long as the engine can generate lots of horsepowers (330-350hp) or at least on par with the highest output engine available now from other competitors.
Since the J-series V6 has reached the end-of-life for tuning additional hp output (otherwise Honda won't resort to the primitive way of adding engine displacement in order to increase output hp), I can only see that the only ways to squeeze out 330-350hp from the J-series are by using either force-induction (Audi) or performance-IMA (Lexus).
I have had too many repeating disappointments from Acura, such as RWD chassis, V8 powerplants, V8-RWD RL sedan, V8 TL sedan, etc., etc.
I don't care now at this point in time. I have one more hope from Acura. Whatever you do, Honda, just give me a 330-350hp TL Type-S with a better looking front end.
Just wish that my 2G car didn't have that crappy design tranny in the 1st place, sigh . . . . . .
Since the J-series V6 has reached the end-of-life for tuning additional hp output (otherwise Honda won't resort to the primitive way of adding engine displacement in order to increase output hp), I can only see that the only ways to squeeze out 330-350hp from the J-series are by using either force-induction (Audi) or performance-IMA (Lexus).
I have had too many repeating disappointments from Acura, such as RWD chassis, V8 powerplants, V8-RWD RL sedan, V8 TL sedan, etc., etc.
I don't care now at this point in time. I have one more hope from Acura. Whatever you do, Honda, just give me a 330-350hp TL Type-S with a better looking front end.
Just wish that my 2G car didn't have that crappy design tranny in the 1st place, sigh . . . . . .
11-27-2010, 06:37 PM
#1963
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
^ I can attest to the fact that the J series has TONS of potential. I had my 3.2 stroked to a 3.6l, and I was putting down 281/257 with stock exhaust and a horrible intake untuned. I expect 295whp at the wheels now, still untuned, but I have yet to get on the dyno since my last batch of mods. You need to spend alot of time opening up the heads and intake, and thats not something that can be easily done on an assembly line.
11-27-2010, 08:57 PM
#1964
Senior Moderator
^ I can attest to the fact that the J series has TONS of potential. I had my 3.2 stroked to a 3.6l, and I was putting down 281/257 with stock exhaust and a horrible intake untuned. I expect 295whp at the wheels now, still untuned, but I have yet to get on the dyno since my last batch of mods. You need to spend alot of time opening up the heads and intake, and thats not something that can be easily done on an assembly line.
11-27-2010, 09:08 PM
#1965
6G TLX-S
IMO, it would have made little is any difference. By 2008 Honda motors were OK in reliability (I checked Button's four retirements were due to spins or collisions) and were mid-field in terms of power.
I agree that MB had the most powerful powerplant of 2009 but the Brawn team had problems with integration of the powerplant with the other systems on the car. Transmission, cooling, aerodynamics,....
.....
Brawn also said the package would have been even quicker out the door at the beginning of the 2008 season if the Honda motor had been used. He also said that had they designed the chassis for MB from the start it would have been equally good.
I agree that MB had the most powerful powerplant of 2009 but the Brawn team had problems with integration of the powerplant with the other systems on the car. Transmission, cooling, aerodynamics,....
.....
Brawn also said the package would have been even quicker out the door at the beginning of the 2008 season if the Honda motor had been used. He also said that had they designed the chassis for MB from the start it would have been equally good.
Here were the still-running-position results of the full outfit Honda team during it's final season in F1 (2008) :
Brazil : Button (13), Barri (15) out of 18 still running. (Final race in the season)
China : Button (13), Barri (15) out of 18 still running.
Japan : Button (14), Barri (13) out of 15 still running.
Singapore : Button (9), Barri (engine failure) out of 15 still running.
Italy : Button (15), Barri (17) out of 19 still running.
Belgia : Button (15), Barri (gearbox failure) out of 18 still running.
Europe : Button (13), Barri (16) out of 17 still running.
Hungary : Button (12), Barri (16) out of 18 still running.
German : Button (17), Barri (accident) out of 17 still running.
Britain : Button (spun), Barri (3) out of 13 still running. (Ross Brawn's clever pit strategy of putting full wet rain tires on Barri's car while everyone were running on intermediate tires.)
France : Button (accident), Barri (14) out of 19 still running.
Canada : Button (11), Barri (7) out of 13 still running.
Monaco: Button (11), Barri (6) out of 14 still running.
Turkey : Button (11), Barri (14) out of 17 still running.
Spain : Button (6), Barri (accident) out of 13 still running.
Bahrain : Button (accident), Barri (11) out of 19 still running.
Malaysia : Button (10), Barri (13) out of 17 still running.
Australia : Button (accident), Barri (disqualify) out of 8 still running. (1st race in the season)
Even though the Honda F1 cars were finishing mid-field in the 1st half of the season, they were getting worst in the latter half of the season, finishing more closer to the end of the field. The Honda chassis was known to be inferior, and so were the Honda engines which were low in output hp.
With the state-of-the-art F1 engines, it's always a delicate balance between output power and reliability. It's easy to build a highly powerful but unreliable engine, or a highly reliable but weak-power engine. There is no such thing as a most powerful and most reliable F1 engine.
The winning formula is to build an engine that is slightly more powerful than all the competitors, and then to work hard to make that configuration most reliable. That's why output engine hp is always the best kept secret for each engine supplier in F1 motorsport.
Many years back, McLaren took a gamble to run with extremely powerful but unreliable engines. As a result, the McLaren drivers were always on the podium if their engines could survive until the end of the race.
Thus, even if the Honda F1 engine were becoming reliable, it must be equally as powerful as the Mercedes and the Renault in order to win races.
Honda F1's problems were majority chassis related, and not having a great technical leader like Brawn. Sticking with the Reynard technical staff from the BAR days costs the team heavily in getting a competitive chassis. Reynard's chassis success in CART did not equate to F1.
11-27-2010, 09:23 PM
#1966
Whats up with RDX owners?
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11-28-2010, 01:07 PM
#1967
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^ I can attest to the fact that the J series has TONS of potential. I had my 3.2 stroked to a 3.6l, and I was putting down 281/257 with stock exhaust and a horrible intake untuned. I expect 295whp at the wheels now, still untuned, but I have yet to get on the dyno since my last batch of mods. You need to spend alot of time opening up the heads and intake, and thats not something that can be easily done on an assembly line.
11-28-2010, 02:46 PM
#1968
AZ Community Team
Red Bull just won the both championships with what many on pit row claim is the 3rd most powerful engine after MB and Ferrari.
A great example of what difference a chassis makes is comparing MB to McLaren in 2009. No comparison, McLaren was clearly the leader in all races and the vast majority of time in qualifing. Yet they used the same engine. Look at Lotus vs. McLaren for 1988. McLaren won 15 out of 16 races. Compare the Williams and Ligier of 1992-1993, both used the same motor.
Now here is some more. Look no further than the Benetton of 1994. It's Ford/Cosworth V8 was ~40-50HP down on the Renault V10 but still won the championship.
Having the most powerful motor does not always equate success in F1, there's alot of other factors andmany races power is not much a factor (Hungary, Monaco,...) where some it's very important (Monza).
What years are you talking about with McLaren running powerful engines that would last a races. The MB, Ford, Honda, Tag,...?
In terms of reliability and power combined look no further than Renault's literally perfect V10's (RS3, RS4, RS5, RS6, RS8, RS9). They were not only powerful but more reliable than the competition. So reliable they even achieved the perfect 1-2-3-4 race order at the 1996 French Gran Prix. It is possible to get reliaiblity and power from a F1 motor, it's just takes alot of engineering and reliability analysis.
Since noone really publishes their peak power numbers, we'll probably never know how poweerful the Honda V10's were. From what I read they were mi-field, not the most powerful but not the least either. But with the superior double deck diffuser and excellent chassis they would have taken home both titles.
Would have been great to see what Honda could have done in 2009 but I feel they would have won the championship. Brawn had issues with the MB engine with exhaust, cooling, and gearbox issues. It was mostly due to it being a different motor than the Honda.
A great example of what difference a chassis makes is comparing MB to McLaren in 2009. No comparison, McLaren was clearly the leader in all races and the vast majority of time in qualifing. Yet they used the same engine. Look at Lotus vs. McLaren for 1988. McLaren won 15 out of 16 races. Compare the Williams and Ligier of 1992-1993, both used the same motor.
Now here is some more. Look no further than the Benetton of 1994. It's Ford/Cosworth V8 was ~40-50HP down on the Renault V10 but still won the championship.
Having the most powerful motor does not always equate success in F1, there's alot of other factors andmany races power is not much a factor (Hungary, Monaco,...) where some it's very important (Monza).
What years are you talking about with McLaren running powerful engines that would last a races. The MB, Ford, Honda, Tag,...?
In terms of reliability and power combined look no further than Renault's literally perfect V10's (RS3, RS4, RS5, RS6, RS8, RS9). They were not only powerful but more reliable than the competition. So reliable they even achieved the perfect 1-2-3-4 race order at the 1996 French Gran Prix. It is possible to get reliaiblity and power from a F1 motor, it's just takes alot of engineering and reliability analysis.
Since noone really publishes their peak power numbers, we'll probably never know how poweerful the Honda V10's were. From what I read they were mi-field, not the most powerful but not the least either. But with the superior double deck diffuser and excellent chassis they would have taken home both titles.
Would have been great to see what Honda could have done in 2009 but I feel they would have won the championship. Brawn had issues with the MB engine with exhaust, cooling, and gearbox issues. It was mostly due to it being a different motor than the Honda.
I don't mean to be picky, but I want to get the facts straight.
Here were the still-running-position results of the full outfit Honda team during it's final season in F1 (2008) :
Brazil : Button (13), Barri (15) out of 18 still running. (Final race in the season)
China : Button (13), Barri (15) out of 18 still running.
Japan : Button (14), Barri (13) out of 15 still running.
Singapore : Button (9), Barri (engine failure) out of 15 still running.
Italy : Button (15), Barri (17) out of 19 still running.
Belgia : Button (15), Barri (gearbox failure) out of 18 still running.
Europe : Button (13), Barri (16) out of 17 still running.
Hungary : Button (12), Barri (16) out of 18 still running.
German : Button (17), Barri (accident) out of 17 still running.
Britain : Button (spun), Barri (3) out of 13 still running. (Ross Brawn's clever pit strategy of putting full wet rain tires on Barri's car while everyone were running on intermediate tires.)
France : Button (accident), Barri (14) out of 19 still running.
Canada : Button (11), Barri (7) out of 13 still running.
Monaco: Button (11), Barri (6) out of 14 still running.
Turkey : Button (11), Barri (14) out of 17 still running.
Spain : Button (6), Barri (accident) out of 13 still running.
Bahrain : Button (accident), Barri (11) out of 19 still running.
Malaysia : Button (10), Barri (13) out of 17 still running.
Australia : Button (accident), Barri (disqualify) out of 8 still running. (1st race in the season)
Even though the Honda F1 cars were finishing mid-field in the 1st half of the season, they were getting worst in the latter half of the season, finishing more closer to the end of the field. The Honda chassis was known to be inferior, and so were the Honda engines which were low in output hp.
With the state-of-the-art F1 engines, it's always a delicate balance between output power and reliability. It's easy to build a highly powerful but unreliable engine, or a highly reliable but weak-power engine. There is no such thing as a most powerful and most reliable F1 engine.
The winning formula is to build an engine that is slightly more powerful than all the competitors, and then to work hard to make that configuration most reliable. That's why output engine hp is always the best kept secret for each engine supplier in F1 motorsport.
Many years back, McLaren took a gamble to run with extremely powerful but unreliable engines. As a result, the McLaren drivers were always on the podium if their engines could survive until the end of the race.
Thus, even if the Honda F1 engine were becoming reliable, it must be equally as powerful as the Mercedes and the Renault in order to win races.
Speaking of CART, Honda also did well as an engine supplier, sweeping 6 consecutive years of championship wins for the Chip Ganassi and then the Penske race teams.
Here were the still-running-position results of the full outfit Honda team during it's final season in F1 (2008) :
Brazil : Button (13), Barri (15) out of 18 still running. (Final race in the season)
China : Button (13), Barri (15) out of 18 still running.
Japan : Button (14), Barri (13) out of 15 still running.
Singapore : Button (9), Barri (engine failure) out of 15 still running.
Italy : Button (15), Barri (17) out of 19 still running.
Belgia : Button (15), Barri (gearbox failure) out of 18 still running.
Europe : Button (13), Barri (16) out of 17 still running.
Hungary : Button (12), Barri (16) out of 18 still running.
German : Button (17), Barri (accident) out of 17 still running.
Britain : Button (spun), Barri (3) out of 13 still running. (Ross Brawn's clever pit strategy of putting full wet rain tires on Barri's car while everyone were running on intermediate tires.)
France : Button (accident), Barri (14) out of 19 still running.
Canada : Button (11), Barri (7) out of 13 still running.
Monaco: Button (11), Barri (6) out of 14 still running.
Turkey : Button (11), Barri (14) out of 17 still running.
Spain : Button (6), Barri (accident) out of 13 still running.
Bahrain : Button (accident), Barri (11) out of 19 still running.
Malaysia : Button (10), Barri (13) out of 17 still running.
Australia : Button (accident), Barri (disqualify) out of 8 still running. (1st race in the season)
Even though the Honda F1 cars were finishing mid-field in the 1st half of the season, they were getting worst in the latter half of the season, finishing more closer to the end of the field. The Honda chassis was known to be inferior, and so were the Honda engines which were low in output hp.
With the state-of-the-art F1 engines, it's always a delicate balance between output power and reliability. It's easy to build a highly powerful but unreliable engine, or a highly reliable but weak-power engine. There is no such thing as a most powerful and most reliable F1 engine.
The winning formula is to build an engine that is slightly more powerful than all the competitors, and then to work hard to make that configuration most reliable. That's why output engine hp is always the best kept secret for each engine supplier in F1 motorsport.
Many years back, McLaren took a gamble to run with extremely powerful but unreliable engines. As a result, the McLaren drivers were always on the podium if their engines could survive until the end of the race.
Thus, even if the Honda F1 engine were becoming reliable, it must be equally as powerful as the Mercedes and the Renault in order to win races.
Speaking of CART, Honda also did well as an engine supplier, sweeping 6 consecutive years of championship wins for the Chip Ganassi and then the Penske race teams.
11-28-2010, 03:36 PM
#1969
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
11-29-2010, 02:11 PM
#1971
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Absolutely.
https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-cl-photograph-gallery-53/my-build-thread-bordering-more-bs-56k-beware-769245/
Beware of the off-topic BS though.
https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-cl-photograph-gallery-53/my-build-thread-bordering-more-bs-56k-beware-769245/
Beware of the off-topic BS though.
11-29-2010, 02:16 PM
#1972
11-29-2010, 02:35 PM
#1973
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Leslie
11-29-2010, 02:43 PM
#1974
My first Avatar....
11-29-2010, 03:04 PM
#1975
11-29-2010, 05:52 PM
#1977
AZ Community Team
11-29-2010, 06:35 PM
#1978
Senior Moderator
I think it would have been very easy for them to do it.
12-05-2010, 01:24 PM
#1979
It should be obvious to everyone that EVs are not going to suit all people for a number of reasons already stated here. BUT what single car is the right car for everyone in the gas fueled world?
If I were to consider my situation: A) 40-50 mile round trip. B) I have 220 in the garage, and the panel is right there if I needed another circuit. C) 120 is readily available with nothing added.
Other considerations: A) Here, we burn oil to generate electricity (not that pollution is my primary concern). However, the cost of electricity (to charge) must be less than the cost of fueling a car with gas. B) If I could find a way to generate electricity (solar?) and sell it back to the power company to gain credits for charging at night, it would further sway the equation in favor of EV. C) Everyone talks about variable rates (ie charge at night while rates are lower) but I don't believe that we have this in our city.
As you can see, there are real concerns that need to be worked out, but range vs. charge time may be the weakest one of them.
12-07-2010, 08:07 AM
#1980
Safety Car
Edmunds
2011 Honda Accord: All Accord styles will be updated for 2011 with a new front grille, bumper, taillights and alloy wheels. EX trim levels and above plus the LX-S coupe will offer a USB audio interface. The Accord sedan will be updated with a new trunk lid and a rearview camera when fitted with navigation. The Accord coupe (V6 EX-L styles) will now include steering-wheel-mounted paddle shifters.
2011 Honda Accord Crosstour: This tall Accord wagon continues unchanged for 2011.
2011 Honda Civic: All Civic styles remain unchanged for 2011 in anticipation of an all-new version next year.
2011 Honda CR-V: Honda added a new LX-based Special Edition (SE) CR-V for 2011. Special Edition CR-Vs add alloy wheels, a 6-CD changer audio system with six speakers, steering-wheel-mounted audio controls and privacy glass. Otherwise, the CR-V has no significant changes.
2011 Honda CR-Z: Honda calls its new-for-2011 CR-Z a sport hybrid. We'd argue there is no such thing, but no other carmaker has made any effort to build a hybrid that's engaging to drive. Designed roughly as an homage to the original CRX, the CR-Z offers small dimensions, efficient operation and sporting intentions. It utilizes a 1.5-liter 4-cylinder joined in parallel to a 13-horsepower electric motor. Power goes to the ground via a 6-speed manual transmission.
2011 Honda Element: Honda's entry into the cube wars sees no significant changes for 2011.
2011 Honda FCX Clarity: Available for lease only in low volumes in Southern California, Honda's fuel cell vehicle remains unchanged for 2011.
2011 Honda Fit: The addition of stability control as standard equipment on Fit Sport styles is the only significant change to the Fit for 2011. Floor mats are now standard on Sport styles as well.
2011 Honda Insight: We're expecting a midcycle refresh for the Insight soon, but it's unclear whether that will come for 2011 or 2012. As of press time Honda won't reveal details on the 2011 Insight so we'd guess it will be sooner rather than later.
2011 Honda Odyssey: Fully redesigned for 2011, the Odyssey is a fully updated minivan that's more efficient than the model it replaces despite being larger and more powerful. Added versatility in both the 2nd and 3rd rows along with the ability to carry 8 passengers when properly equipped is also a plus.
2011 Honda Pilot: This Odyssey-based utility vehicle remains unchanged for 2011.
2011 Honda Ridgeline: This pickup truck-style package built on the platform of the Odyssey minivan continues unchanged for 2011.
12-07-2010, 10:43 AM
#1981
Slightly better grille on the Accord, though it looks like the guillotine grill is starting to sprout from the hood. Prediction: 2013 Accord has beak. Sales take noticeable dive. Acurazine members see it coming.
By the way, has anyone tried paddle shifters/"sport shift" on newer automatic cars? Is it still slow as balls? and dual clutch transmissions don't count.
By the way, has anyone tried paddle shifters/"sport shift" on newer automatic cars? Is it still slow as balls? and dual clutch transmissions don't count.
12-07-2010, 11:52 AM
#1982
My recent experience.
My SHAWD was in the shop so I had the chance to rent different cars, here were my impressions:
Hyundai Santa Fe - manual shift gate for auto. Shifts reasonably quick (as in, you tap, and it will shift right after the tap, barely any pause) but will only downshift to lowest possible set gear. I could not get it close to redline, it would always not let me shift that low, or upshift on its own very early. Not fun due to the early automatic upshifts.
Mercedes Benz C300 - manual shift gate for auto (7 speed). Shifts slow, like acura/honda paddle shifters (where you tap, pause, shift), but shifts with "authority" Transmission will allow you to downshift enough to get close to redline, and did not seem to want to automatically shift up. Fun because the C300 seemed to have so much low end torque. I'd tap left(?) (the system isn't up or down, but left or right) twice, and there'd be enough power to pass any car that isn't a sports cars.
My SHAWD and Base - paddle shifters. Shifts very slow (tap, pause, shift). The transmission does not seem fit for either car because even if you downshift 2 gears, there's no "thrust". You just downshift and go. Not very fun. I'd rather leave it in S mode where you're basically in gears 1-3 all the time. WHERES THE 6 SPEED?
Audi A5 (non rental) - paddle shifters and manual shift gate (6 speed auto) The quickest shifting and most fun of all cars. In "D" mode, 1st gear is dumbed down (no "thrust" feeling), possibly for fuel economy, and the transmission pretty much shifts to 2nd gear right away. In "S" mode, first gear is strong enough so that drinks will spill, heads will be shoved into the seats, anything on the dashboard will fly off, lots of power for "only" 265hp. Either the manual shift gate or paddle shifters will yield fast firm shifts. Probably not DSG speeds, but quick enough for me not to notice any type of pause. In "D" mode, after using the paddle shifters, if there's a pause, the transmission will resume automatic shifting. In "S" mode, transmission will hold the gear you selected or the lowest gear unless you come to a full stop.
My SHAWD was in the shop so I had the chance to rent different cars, here were my impressions:
Hyundai Santa Fe - manual shift gate for auto. Shifts reasonably quick (as in, you tap, and it will shift right after the tap, barely any pause) but will only downshift to lowest possible set gear. I could not get it close to redline, it would always not let me shift that low, or upshift on its own very early. Not fun due to the early automatic upshifts.
Mercedes Benz C300 - manual shift gate for auto (7 speed). Shifts slow, like acura/honda paddle shifters (where you tap, pause, shift), but shifts with "authority" Transmission will allow you to downshift enough to get close to redline, and did not seem to want to automatically shift up. Fun because the C300 seemed to have so much low end torque. I'd tap left(?) (the system isn't up or down, but left or right) twice, and there'd be enough power to pass any car that isn't a sports cars.
My SHAWD and Base - paddle shifters. Shifts very slow (tap, pause, shift). The transmission does not seem fit for either car because even if you downshift 2 gears, there's no "thrust". You just downshift and go. Not very fun. I'd rather leave it in S mode where you're basically in gears 1-3 all the time. WHERES THE 6 SPEED?
Audi A5 (non rental) - paddle shifters and manual shift gate (6 speed auto) The quickest shifting and most fun of all cars. In "D" mode, 1st gear is dumbed down (no "thrust" feeling), possibly for fuel economy, and the transmission pretty much shifts to 2nd gear right away. In "S" mode, first gear is strong enough so that drinks will spill, heads will be shoved into the seats, anything on the dashboard will fly off, lots of power for "only" 265hp. Either the manual shift gate or paddle shifters will yield fast firm shifts. Probably not DSG speeds, but quick enough for me not to notice any type of pause. In "D" mode, after using the paddle shifters, if there's a pause, the transmission will resume automatic shifting. In "S" mode, transmission will hold the gear you selected or the lowest gear unless you come to a full stop.
12-07-2010, 12:04 PM
#1983
Thanks for adding 
I'm just used to the 'manual' shifting modes on older Hondas, Toyotas and BMWs - all basically woefully slow. The most impressive I've seen was when I think asianspec demoed an IS-F - 8-speed torque converter automatic, but it had DSG-fast downshifts and upshifts. Really surprised me.
I'm just used to the 'manual' shifting modes on older Hondas, Toyotas and BMWs - all basically woefully slow. The most impressive I've seen was when I think asianspec demoed an IS-F - 8-speed torque converter automatic, but it had DSG-fast downshifts and upshifts. Really surprised me.
12-23-2010, 10:50 AM
#1984
The sizzle in the Steak
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FAA-Conforming HondaJet makes first-ever flight - lasts 51 minutes
Vtec yo!!!!!
FAA-Conforming HondaJet makes first-ever flight - lasts 51 minutes
Vtec yo!!!!!
12-23-2010, 01:35 PM
#1986
^^Not sure, but I believe thats standard procedure during first ever flights.
12-23-2010, 02:16 PM
#1987
The sizzle in the Steak
^^ Yup. Test flights are always held with the gear in "down & locked" position.
In case you have to make an emergency landing, and to avoid malfunctions with the retractable gear on the first flight.
In case you have to make an emergency landing, and to avoid malfunctions with the retractable gear on the first flight.
12-23-2010, 03:43 PM
#1989
The sizzle in the Steak
Word on the street is that they are postponing the 2nd flight.
During the 1st flight at about the mid-point when the aircraft was crusing around 225 mph, the tranny suddenly down shifted into 2nd with no warning.
...and the sound of shattering glass was heard by the pilots in the cockpit.
The pilots got a bit "rattled" because of the tranny issue, and tried to recover from the sudden down shift......but found themselves in a bit of trouble because they could not find the appropriate switches and gauges they needed due to the over-abundance of redundant buttons in the cockpit.
...Good news, however, is on the way!!! Honda has decided to provide a new nose design for the aircraft that consists of an aerodynamic power plenum.
In addition, Honda has decided to provide power to the landing gear to help with taxi duties, and to provide less stress on the engines.....as of late, Honda states they will only provide power to the front nose gear.
During the 1st flight at about the mid-point when the aircraft was crusing around 225 mph, the tranny suddenly down shifted into 2nd with no warning.
...and the sound of shattering glass was heard by the pilots in the cockpit.
The pilots got a bit "rattled" because of the tranny issue, and tried to recover from the sudden down shift......but found themselves in a bit of trouble because they could not find the appropriate switches and gauges they needed due to the over-abundance of redundant buttons in the cockpit.
...Good news, however, is on the way!!! Honda has decided to provide a new nose design for the aircraft that consists of an aerodynamic power plenum.
In addition, Honda has decided to provide power to the landing gear to help with taxi duties, and to provide less stress on the engines.....as of late, Honda states they will only provide power to the front nose gear.
12-23-2010, 04:07 PM
#1990
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12-23-2010, 08:40 PM
#1991
but seriously congratulations Honda.
12-23-2010, 08:54 PM
#1992
Senior Moderator
Word on the street is that they are postponing the 2nd flight.
During the 1st flight at about the mid-point when the aircraft was crusing around 225 mph, the tranny suddenly down shifted into 2nd with no warning.
...and the sound of shattering glass was heard by the pilots in the cockpit.
The pilots got a bit "rattled" because of the tranny issue, and tried to recover from the sudden down shift......but found themselves in a bit of trouble because they could not find the appropriate switches and gauges they needed due to the over-abundance of redundant buttons in the cockpit.
...Good news, however, is on the way!!! Honda has decided to provide a new nose design for the aircraft that consists of an aerodynamic power plenum.
In addition, Honda has decided to provide power to the landing gear to help with taxi duties, and to provide less stress on the engines.....as of late, Honda states they will only provide power to the front nose gear.
During the 1st flight at about the mid-point when the aircraft was crusing around 225 mph, the tranny suddenly down shifted into 2nd with no warning.
...and the sound of shattering glass was heard by the pilots in the cockpit.
The pilots got a bit "rattled" because of the tranny issue, and tried to recover from the sudden down shift......but found themselves in a bit of trouble because they could not find the appropriate switches and gauges they needed due to the over-abundance of redundant buttons in the cockpit.
...Good news, however, is on the way!!! Honda has decided to provide a new nose design for the aircraft that consists of an aerodynamic power plenum.
In addition, Honda has decided to provide power to the landing gear to help with taxi duties, and to provide less stress on the engines.....as of late, Honda states they will only provide power to the front nose gear.
12-24-2010, 07:57 AM
#1994
Senior Moderator
Word on the street is that they are postponing the 2nd flight.
During the 1st flight at about the mid-point when the aircraft was crusing around 225 mph, the tranny suddenly down shifted into 2nd with no warning.
...and the sound of shattering glass was heard by the pilots in the cockpit.
The pilots got a bit "rattled" because of the tranny issue, and tried to recover from the sudden down shift......but found themselves in a bit of trouble because they could not find the appropriate switches and gauges they needed due to the over-abundance of redundant buttons in the cockpit.
...Good news, however, is on the way!!! Honda has decided to provide a new nose design for the aircraft that consists of an aerodynamic power plenum.
In addition, Honda has decided to provide power to the landing gear to help with taxi duties, and to provide less stress on the engines.....as of late, Honda states they will only provide power to the front nose gear.
During the 1st flight at about the mid-point when the aircraft was crusing around 225 mph, the tranny suddenly down shifted into 2nd with no warning.
...and the sound of shattering glass was heard by the pilots in the cockpit.
The pilots got a bit "rattled" because of the tranny issue, and tried to recover from the sudden down shift......but found themselves in a bit of trouble because they could not find the appropriate switches and gauges they needed due to the over-abundance of redundant buttons in the cockpit.
...Good news, however, is on the way!!! Honda has decided to provide a new nose design for the aircraft that consists of an aerodynamic power plenum.
In addition, Honda has decided to provide power to the landing gear to help with taxi duties, and to provide less stress on the engines.....as of late, Honda states they will only provide power to the front nose gear.
But yes, this is pretty cool for Honda. No small feat.
12-24-2010, 10:36 AM
#1995
Senior Moderator
So they in this bad economy take the time to create and give us multi million dollar planes which a very limited number will be sold, but cant give us a limited production 150k NSX or a V8 engine option? Yea, makes sense to me.
12-24-2010, 11:45 AM
#1997
The sizzle in the Steak
This was all in the works a long, long time ago.
12-24-2010, 12:57 PM
#1998
It is about demonstrating light weight materials in Aeroplane. So at some point Honda can become Tier-1 supplier to Boeing/EADS/Bombardier/GE just like MHI/Toray/Kawaskai/Avio/Alenia.
12-24-2010, 01:25 PM
#1999
Race Director
But if they can make money on them, unlike the money pit that the NSX was, it's all good.
12-24-2010, 06:15 PM
#2000
6G TLX-S
Honda has a vision about the future.
Future "cars" all fly. No more supercar, V8, RWD, dual-clutch tranny, direct-fuel injection to worry about.
Once again. Honda has achieved another me-first and doing-it-my-way.
Future "cars" all fly. No more supercar, V8, RWD, dual-clutch tranny, direct-fuel injection to worry about.
Once again. Honda has achieved another me-first and doing-it-my-way.