iforyou

iTrader: (1)

"further application of Honda's 2- and 3-motor hybrid systems"

Hmmm...wondering if those systems will find their way into Civic, CRV, TLX, etc.

Gonna be a busy year for Honda - Ridgeline, Pilot, VTEC Turbo, NSX, HR-V....

We have also seen test mules of new Civic and Odyssey.

Yumcha

at turbo engine...

kurtatx

Integra...

Updated TLX styling with a turbo V6.

Oh wait, that won't happen. I'm going back to bed.

cob3683

Very interested in the new Pilot. Love the current model's exterior but the interior definitely isn't aging well.

Edward'TLS

Hurray to the Honda DOHC V6 engine.

DOHC V6 has huge tuning potentials, and should be used in all Acura products.

The aging SOHC V6 family is at the very end of tuning cycle after DI is added.

AZuser

What cars/trucks would be due for a FMC around 2016? Civic, CR-V, CR-Z, ILX, Ridgeline, Odyssey?

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Cr-Z?? not too sure about that....actually with a right powerplant it can be good.

Otherwise, Ridgeline and Pilot are confirmed to be renewed for 2016. The CR-V just got a MMC for 2015 and ILX is getting MMC for 2016, so no FMC. We have seen Odyssey and Civic test mules, so those are possibilities for FMC I think.

AZuser

Honda does offer a factory supercharger for the CR-Z (only for MT though). And since Honda will likely kill the manuals in favor of DCT's, why not do a turbocharged CR-Z with DCT?

A turbocharged Ridgeline would be pretty cool. Do what Toyota did back in 1986

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

lol that's one epic ad..hahaha!

Edward'TLS

Honda should consider slapping turbo/super-chargers on every production vehicles, just like other top automakers.

Other than battery, hybrid, or fuel-cell powered, force-induction is currently the only viable way to maximize fuel economy while boosting torque and hp for small-displacement engines.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Doing it right is the key. Right now, only VW and BMW know what they are doing. Others like Ford, Hyundai, not too sure.

You can have a good turbo engines like the 328i or A4 2.0T that are smooth, powerful, and efficient. On the other hand, you can have something like the Hyundai's 2.0T or Ford's 2.0T that underperform (i.e. Sonata 2.0T and Ford Fusion 2.0T that are much slower than Camry V6, Accord V6, and Altima while sacrificing V6 sound smoothness). The worst part is that the latter two engines (J and VQ) are about 2 decades old.

SamDoe1

How is there a 59 page thread on Honda Development and Technology? This page shouldn't have been updated since 2004.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Doing it right is the key. Right now, only VW and BMW know what they are doing. Others like Ford, Hyundai, not too sure.

You can have a good turbo engines like the 328i or A4 2.0T that are smooth, powerful, and efficient. On the other hand, you can have something like the Hyundai's 2.0T or Ford's 2.0T that underperform (i.e. Sonata 2.0T and Ford Fusion 2.0T that are much slower than Camry V6, Accord V6, and Altima while sacrificing V6 sound smoothness). The worst part is that the latter two engines (J and VQ) are about 2 decades old.

fsttyms1

Fords 2.3T and TT V6 engines arent underperformers, nor unreliable and only getting better and more powerful

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Hence I said 2.0T, not 3.5T or 2.3T

But these results are interesting too:
2015 Ford Mustang EcoBoost Automatic Test ? Review ? Car and Driver
2012 BMW 328i Sedan Automatic Test ? Review ? Car and Driver

310hp mustang and 240hp 328i, 180lb difference, same 1/4 mile trap speed.

MTEAZY

Wish I had a pre-86 SFA Toyota Pickup. Don't care for the turbo.

Black Tire

Honda should have done what Nissan is doing with small commercial vans. I have seen loads of these in Toronto. You cannot compete with the big boys. But do what you do best with smaller vehicles.

2015 NV200 Compact Cargo Van | Nissan Commercial Vehicles

TacoBello

You must be talking about the new sonata turbo, that Hyundai detuned for some reason. My wife's completely stock '12 2.0T sonata puts my 6mt 3G TL with some bolt ons to shame. And no, there is nothing wrong with my TL, lol. The car had a complete top-to-bottom overhaul over the summer.

oonowindoo

It could be one or all of the following:

Ford is overstating Mustang's #s.
BMW is understating 328's #s
ZF8 is that much better?

the N20 is seriously underrated, a 228 is just as fast, if not faster than a 335....

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

love those N20 and N54/55 man.

But ya, my point is, if Honda were to launch turbocharged engines, they have to be better than what they currently have - the J series. It falls short when it comes to max output against S4, 335i, no doubt about that. However, the J series is still highly competitive in most segments (most notably the mid-size family sedan segment).

oonowindoo

The reason a lot of us and many journalist are demanding new engine from Honda/Acura is not because K24 and J35 are not good engines or they are not competitive anymore.

but rather new products will also bring a sense of exicitment that an old engine just can't regardless how much revision you do to it.

Honda can simply use 80% of the same hardware from K20/K24/J35 and add some stronger materials and call it a L35T or M20T or M24T.

New engine and new marketing materials that are a lot easier to market to the mass than SuperDuper Handling AWD and PAWS.

dom

I'd argue that in certain applications the engines are uncompetitive or at least perceived to be uncompetitive. ie; K24 in the TLX.

oonowindoo

Turbo is the new Vtec..... it does magic to the brain of people.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I see what you mean. Though I don't know how many regular consumers out there know what a J series or K series is. Honda can claim they are new engines just by switching to DI or something.

It's just that us enthusiasts won't be fooled by such marketing terms.

That depends on whether you feel the TLX 2.4 is competitive with 320i, IS250, and ATS 2.5L or not in terms of straight line performance, NVH, and fuel economy.

Edward'TLS

The SOHC J-series V6 design has been maxed out in terms of tuning for more hp output, while staying naturally aspirated.

Honda seriously need a DOHC head on a new V6 engine family in order to push the max hp to the next peak level, without resorting to force-induction or hybrid-assistance.

MTEAZY

J-series is near the end of its life cycle, but what they did with the TLX was monumentally stupid. Instead of giving it an acceptable power bump from the old 3.7, they gave it a downgrade of 15 hp, just so that the FWD RLX doesn't get its uninspiring toes stepped on.



Who the f*** does that in this day and age? This isn't the 80's all over again with drastic changes to the emissions laws.



Then Mike Accaviti strolls on stage, delivers an aimless speech incorporating buzzwords that some marketing interns pulled out of their asses, collects a fat paycheck, and resumes mouth-breathing. Meanwhile Honda Japan Execs drive home in their 63 hp Kei cars worrying that the upcoming NSX will be too powerful.


I never thought I'd say it, but this company has worse leadership than GM.

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

The 3.7L-V6 has excessive oil consumption issue, but Honda is not admitting it.

Maybe that's why Honda is staying away from this 3.7L-V6 to avoid more headaches.

Edward'TLS

https://acurazine.com/forums/problem...mption-784028/

https://acurazine.com/forums/problem...-start-921543/

https://acurazine.com/forums/problem...mption-905239/

TacoBello

It sure does. Now VTEC paired with turbo will be like crack. Call it VTEC squared, lol. Honda has maxed out the NA platform long long ago. Sure, tweaks here and there come out, but nothing drastic like VTEC first did. Now slapping a turbo into the mix and still being able to rev to 7000rpm will not only sound badass, but will finally give us the power we've always wanted from Honda.

I can't believe I'm saying it (and I'm thrilled at the same time), but I'm starting to get excited about Honda and Acura again. They have a ways to go still, but it sounds like they're starting to head in the right direction.


I must agree that dropping the power on the TLX V6 was a bit silly. Honda should have kept it the same as the 4G and maybe throw a turbo into the mix for the RLX to get the power separation they desire. Alas, that would only increase the price of the RLX even further, so it never happened.

I wonder how much influence honda Japan has on the new NSX. It seems crazy that the 1G was entirely made in Japan and now the 2G looks to be all american. It's not a bad thing, but just weird. The 1G was a Honda rebranded as an Acura. The 2G is now an Acura rebranded as a Honda.

I'm not sure I agree with you about the leadership aspect of Honda being as bad as GM. I think they're starting to head in the right direction and figuring out where they went wrong, albeit it's happening a little late. But on that note, I prefer late as opposed to never.

RPhilMan1

Ford's 2.0L EcoBoost for the Fusion and Escape are detuned. The 2.0L in the Focus ST is where you'll see its maximum potential. It's quite an engine.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

That's more of less the Infiniti route.

Should have just used the RLX engine with 310hp. Instead of a 15hp loss, it would have been an increase of 5hp.

I know you have a Focus ST. And there's no doubt that if you tune it, it has high potential, just like many turbo engines.

However, in stock form, at 252hp/270lbft, carrying a curb weight of 3200-3300lb, I'd expect better straight line performance:
2014 Ford Focus ST Long-Term Test Update ? Review ? Car and Driver

Zero to 60 mph: 6.1 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 16.3 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 26.8 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 6.9 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 8.7 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 6.7 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.7 sec @ 96 mph

Here's another Focus ST test:
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...swagen-gti.pdf

Zero to 60 mph: 6.3 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 16.5 sec
Zero to 120 mph: 26.9 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 6.9 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.8 sec @ 95 mph

There's a COBB tuned Focus ST with 300hp and extreme performance tires:
COBB Ford Focus ST Test ? Review ? Car and Driver

Zero to 60 mph: 5.5 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 13.8 sec
Zero to 140 mph: 35.0 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 6.0 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.2 sec @ 101 mph

These are pretty nice figures, until look at an Accord V6.
Accord V6 coupe 6AT:
2013 Honda Accord EX-L V-6 Coupe Automatic Test ? Review ? Car and Driver

Zero to 60 mph: 5.5 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 13.8 sec
Zero to 120 mph: 20.9 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 5.9 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.1 sec @ 101 mph

Accord V6 sedan 6AT:
2013 Honda Accord Sedan V-6 Test ? Review ? Car and Driver

Zero to 60 mph: 5.6 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 13.9 sec
Zero to 120 mph: 21.2 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 5.9 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 3.3 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 4.1 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.1 sec @ 101 mph

Accord V6 coupe 6MT:
2013 Honda Accord Coupe V-6 Manual Test ? Review ? Car and Driver

Zero to 60 mph: 5.6 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 13.4 sec
Zero to 120 mph: 20.0 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 6.0 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 8.4 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 8.1 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.0 sec @ 103 mph

I'm not trying to be doing magazine racing. But since we are talking about straight line performance here, there's no better way to use the same publisher that is also very well established for performance figures.

I also posted several tests for each car for consistency (no freak test).

I think these test results show that there's a clear gap in terms of straight line performance.

In fact, those figures of the Focus ST seem to be closer to the 2G TL Type S:
Acura 3.2TL Type-S - Short Take Road Test - Car Reviews - Car and Driver

TSX69

Honda Will Drop CNG Vehicles to Focus on Hybrids & EVs

Honda Motor Co. is phasing out efforts to develop natural-gas powered vehicles and will instead focus on hybrids and electric vehicles.

The automaker is developing a next-generation, 2-motor hybrid system that will appear in a new Accord Hybrid due by 2018, and will offer a redesigned hydrogen-powered fuel cell vehicle next year, John Mendel, executive vice president of American Honda Motor Co., said at a news conference today.

A new plug-in hybrid, a new battery-electric car and a 3-motor hybrid system also are in the works, Mendel said, without giving details.

Honda is "developing an extensive new generation of electrified vehicles" that should yield significant sales, Mendel said.

The fuel cell vehicle, battery-electric car and plug-in hybrids "will become a mainstream, volume pillar for the Honda brand," Mendel said.

Honda will stop selling the natural-gas powered version of the Civic and the Civic Hybrid this year, a move that follows the withdrawal of the slow-selling Accord Plug-in Hybrid from the U.S., Mendel said.

Honda is dropping the Civic Hybrid in part because it expects the redesigned 2016 Civic to offer "a few ticks more" than 40 mpg, according to Mendel.

Since 1998, Honda has tried to commercialize natural-gas vehicles, but the lack of a fueling infrastructure posed too great a barrier.

"The infrastructure, while it improved, just wasn't as convenient as petrol," Mendel said. "We gave it a pretty long run and we tried and tried and tried."

The company said it has sold about 16,000 natural-gas vehicles, mainly to taxi and commercial fleets.

Looking at 2015, Mendel said that the combined U.S. light-vehicle sales of the Honda and Acura brands on are track to set a record high. Their previous combined best was 2007, when they sold 1.55 million. Their 2014 sales total was just 1.54 million.

Through May, Honda brand U.S. sales rose 0.6 percent to 547,044 vehicles while Acura sales rose 7.2 percent to 71,560.

The new generation of the Honda Ridgeline is expected to ride on the same unibody platform as the Pilot crossover and Odyssey minivan and could share their 3.5-liter V-6 engine and 9-speed automatic transmission.

Mendel also said the new Ridgeline pickup will arrive next year with a more traditional truck look. He said the previous Ridgeline was too polarizing, and the new truck "is not as unique in styling." A camouflaged 2nd-generation Ridgeline was spotted during a test drive last week.

kurtatx

This is just the right way to go. In America, refineries are designed to create gasoline to drive gasoline based cars. In Europe, that curve is more towards diesel, but the infrastructure required to make the world run on natural gas (or even Hydrogen, honestly) would be a ridiculous rewrite of the practices of multiple industries.

Honda should make more efficient gasoline engines until they can make better EVs. To me, it seems like EVs are the future, as they allow for diversification of energy sources.

TSX69

New Honda CEO Hachigo Wants Exciting Cars,
Maximum Capacity Use

Honda Motor Co.’s new CEO, Takahiro Hachigo, aims to reboot the ailing automaker by rekindling development of more exciting cars, steering clear of numerical targets and maximizing use of the company’s overseas production to soak up global overcapacity.

Speaking today in his 1st news conference since taking office last month, Hachigo also said Honda will be more open to alliances and joint ventures with rival carmakers in the pursuit of cost sharing and next-generation technologies.

“I plan to create a new Honda,” Hachigo told reporters at the company’s global headquarters, adding that he will not revive his predecessor’s goal of chasing annual sales to 6 million vehicles globally in the year ending March 2017. “Rather than focusing on numbers, it is important to come up with products that carry dreams and satisfy our customers,” he said. “We will focus on the development of innovative products.”

Hachigo inherits a company in recovery mode from outgoing CEO Takanobu Ito, who stepped down to be an advisor following a rash of quality problems and a derailed global sales drive to reach the 6 million units, which critics called overly ambitious.

Last month, Honda restated its earnings to notch a 19% drop in operating profit for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2015. Honda took the hit after booking bigger than expected quality costs to handle expanding recalls of Takata airbags.

A veteran product-development engineer with extensive overseas experience, Hachigo, 56, said his years spent working in regions such as North America, Europe and China gives him unique understanding of Honda’s needs in key growth markets.

“I have always been working on the front lines,” Hachigo said. “That is the significance of my becoming president.”

Marshaling those resources and making more efficient use of its overseas plants will be key to Honda’s recovery, he said.

Global realignment

Under Ito’s initiative, Honda rapidly expanded international production capacity under a plan to create 6 regional assembly and product-development hubs – even as sales failed to keep up.

“As a result, on a global basis, we’ve come to hold excessive production capacity, with impact on our profitability as well,” Hachigo said. That means Honda will increasingly use production sites outside Japan as global export hubs, he said.

For example, Honda will ship the 5-door Honda Civic hatchback and high performance Civic Type R from its assembly plant in England to global markets. It will also ship the CR-V crossover to new markets from its plant in Canada. Finally, instead of sourcing the European-spec Jazz compact locally, those cars will come from Japan.

“We want to make best use of these sited on a global basis,” Hachigo said. “That is the next step.”

Honda needs to better integrate its far-flung regional production footprint especially given slowing sales in Europe and Southeast Asia, some analysts said. “While Honda tried to be regional in the past, they became too regional,” said Chris Richter, an auto analyst at CLSA Asia-Pacific Markets. “There was a lack of coordination.”

Honda, the 1st Japanese carmaker to build vehicles in the United States, now makes 81% of its vehicles outside Japan. In the first five months, Honda’s exports from Japan plunged 27% to just 9,620 vehicles. North America alone accounts for 40% of its global sales.

Ito, who keeps a seat on Honda’s board, led the company through a tumultuous period marked by the financial crisis, the 2011 Japanese earthquake-tsunami, a period of profit-eroding exchange rates and extended flooding that shut down Thailand operations.

More recently, the company has been broadsided by the global recall of millions of vehicles to replace faulty Takata airbags that have been linked to 6 deaths. And a string of embarrassing recalls in Japan forced Ito to delay several product launches and overhaul its r&d strategy.

New Civic, jets

Hachigo said the company would spend more time on r&d to develop better products more attuned to market trends. The guiding principle, he said, would be products that deploy innovative technology that has yet to be marketed.

He cited the S660 mini sports roadster, sold only in Japan, and the Honda’s commuter Jet business as examples of new spirit.

Also on tap: A new Civic small car arriving this autumn that will get a new platform and downsized turbocharged engine. Those technologies will be deployed to other nameplates, Hachigo said.

Ito’s departure came with many of his reforms just underway, and Hachigo has pledged to continue much of the strategy.

Ito’s retooling of the r&d division, for example, to slow development, add extra quality checks and reduce the onerous workload, was announced just last year. Meanwhile, the plan to delegate power and responsibility to six global hubs for local production and r&d is also still a work in progress.

Hachigo joined Honda in 1982, beginning his career in its automobile r&d unit as a chassis design engineer.

In contrast to Ito, who logged just 2 years overseas at Honda’s Ohio r&d center, Hachigo is a veritable globetrotter. Hachigo has served stints on 3 continents. And until he was called back this year to president, the veteran engineer had been working overseas since 2012, most recently in China.

Hachigo played a key role in Ito's single-biggest initiative: a still-unfinished realignment of Honda's global operations around 6 regional hubs, each wielding its own r&d and production power. Hachigo helped set up those regional centers as president of Honda's European r&d operation in 2012 and then as head of purchasing, production and development in China from 2013.

TSX69

@ Last, Honda & Toyota PrePare for Turbo Charge

It's a cry echoing through the halls of Honda: The turbos are coming! The turbos are coming!

And it's about time. Japan's Big 3 -- Honda, Toyota and Nissan -- are conspicuously late to the turbo party. Walk onto a Honda or Toyota lot and you won't see a single vehicle with a turbo under the hood. At Nissan, only the Juke crossover and the fire-breathing GT-R supercar use them.

Meanwhile, Ford and some European brands use turbocharged engines extensively, as do an increasing number of models from other U.S. makes and the Korean brands.

What explains Japan's moving so late to turbos? They didn't need to until now.

"The Japanese were able to wait longer to adopt these technologies because they could," said Ed Kim, vice president of industry analysis at AutoPacific. "They had less to prove to the buying public."

Honda, Toyota and Nissan had many models that were at or near the top of their segments for fuel economy without adopting technologies such as turbos, direct injection and multispeed or continuously variable transmissions, or using them more sparingly than the rest of the industry.

This made them appealing to car buyers, as well as government regulators watching emissions and fuel economy averages. Waiting also saved these automakers piles of money that they could invest in developing longer-term strategies such as Nissan's Leaf electric car or Toyota and Honda's hydrogen fuel cell cars.

But these brands are beginning to reach the efficiency limits of their older technologies. To keep pace with rivals -- and regulators -- Japan's 3 are planning big changes over the next 5 years.

Honda will lead the turbo charge, taking advantage of an opportunity to inject some power into its bread-and-butter products. The automaker's new Civic, debuting in production form this year, will offer a 1.5-liter turbocharged 4-cylinder engine. Later versions of the Accord midsize sedan and CR-V crossover will also use that engine.

These 3 nameplates make up the backbone of Honda's lineup: In 2014 they accounted for more than 1 million sales, or 68% of Honda Motor Co.'s U.S. volume. As such they will have to carry the bulk of Honda's fuel-economy compliance burden.

"Downsized turbocharged engines offer the power that the customer wants along with the efficiencies of fuel economy and the benefits that go along with the lightweighting," Frank Paluch, president of Honda R&D Americas, told Automotive News.

Toyota's approach will be more measured in the coming years. A 2.0-liter turbocharged 4-cylinder engine will replace a V-6 in several Toyota and Lexus nameplates, including the Camry and Lexus IS.

But Toyota won't yet replace its mainstream 4-cylinder engines with turbos. Instead, look for larger direct-injected engines that use the more efficient Atkinson cycle combustion, and a broader use of CVTs.

"The powertrain is still an area where we see ourselves as being able to squeeze out a significant amount of efficiency," said Andrew Coetzee, Toyota's group vice president for product planning.

Nissan, meanwhile, has embraced CVTs in the name of efficiency. Its adoption of turbos will be slower than Honda's and Toyota's. In the meantime, it will focus on adding direct injection to its engines.

Not all the changes coming from Japan are under the hood. Nissan, Honda and Toyota also plan to make up lost ground in infotainment systems.

"Once upon a time Japan was thought as the ultimate tech mecca, and now they're behind on infotainment technologies," AutoPacific's Kim said. "So look for some real progress in terms of getting their infotainment systems up to date."

You can reach David Undercoffler at undercoffler@crain.com.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Can't really disagree with this article.....the Accord, Altima, and Camry V6 models are decisively faster than most 2.0T powered competitors such as Sonata, Optima, and Fusion. They also don't lose any ground in terms of real world fuel economy. The icing on the cake is that V6 engines inherently sound smoother and arguably better than I4.

It's when they have to compete with boosted V6/I6 that is causing them to struggle. But then again, that would be for Acura, Lexus, and Infinti.

TacoBello

When we bought my wife's 2.0T Sonata back in 2012, it put down more power than the Camry, Accord and Altima V6. It's faster than my 6MT TL (non type s). 274hp and 269 ftlb. Plus, because of the turbo, the max torque is hit way down low in the rpm band- at like 1800 rpm. There's zero turbo lag also.

2012 Accord - 271 hp/254 ftlb
2012 Camry - 268 hp/248 ftlb
2012 Altima - 270 hp/258 ftlb

No idea why, but Hyundai detuned the Sonata 2.0T for 2015.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

TB, quit talkin out yo ass.
the 2.0 Sonata is not faster than your TL6MT.
on paper, yes...but not in real life.

Majofo

quicker maybe, but not faster

TacoBello

Raced wife from three sets of lights, just after both cars were done having maintenance . She blew me away each and every time by about 1.5 car lengths.