Honda: Development and Technology News
#1761
Arguments? NO. What point is there in arguing anything with a fanboi of a particular brand or car? It took you fewer than 140 posts to reveal your true self and agenda.
We all get it... You love your
TL. That's great. Trying to bludgeon everyone into thinking the way you do is tiresome.
regarding the "German car owners" did you read dom's post:
Every one of the people on AZ who now own a German car has every right to voice their thoughts on Acura or any other brand of car. THE DIFFERENCE is, they can and do give credit to various other cars and brands of cars and they move on. YOU like, all fanbois, try to make everyone else worship at the alter of a particular brand. It's tiresome.
Just because you used to own xyz brand and now have "stopped drinking the German Koo aid"... doesn't give you any more credibility. Your ridiculous bludgeoning tactics cause people to recoil and act and speak in the opposite manner. i find myself acting this way.
I actually WANT Acura to get their shit together. But in my mind they are not getting it done, and you with your fanboi-ism causes me to reflexively regurgitate against your constant praise of a company who, to this current owner, has lost its way. They are going to lose another customer (me) when it comes time for a new car.
Argue? With a fanboi?
No so much. Remember - before you there was ssftsx.
We all get it... You love your
![Ugly](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/ugly.gif)
regarding the "German car owners" did you read dom's post:
Every one of the people on AZ who now own a German car has every right to voice their thoughts on Acura or any other brand of car. THE DIFFERENCE is, they can and do give credit to various other cars and brands of cars and they move on. YOU like, all fanbois, try to make everyone else worship at the alter of a particular brand. It's tiresome.
Just because you used to own xyz brand and now have "stopped drinking the German Koo aid"... doesn't give you any more credibility. Your ridiculous bludgeoning tactics cause people to recoil and act and speak in the opposite manner. i find myself acting this way.
I actually WANT Acura to get their shit together. But in my mind they are not getting it done, and you with your fanboi-ism causes me to reflexively regurgitate against your constant praise of a company who, to this current owner, has lost its way. They are going to lose another customer (me) when it comes time for a new car.
![Shrug](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/shrug.gif)
Argue? With a fanboi?
![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
Sales talk..they weathering the storm quite well and dealership showrooms seems quite full (at least in the Northwest)l...I never had to fight as much as I did for the TL to get the deal I wanted....
I did not bludgeon anybody, I just respond to uninformed unfounded assertions, however I will refrain even to do so in the future...seems to me that your either join the bashing or you are a "fanboy"....I respectfully say that I'm a quite bit disappointed at the level of discussion I been seeing on here...technical knowledge seems to be a premium...
Actually I do have criticism for Acura..I would love to see them compete in more upscale segments because they have the potential to do so..that is the only thing I can think of...
I do not even feel the "attachment" that many of the bashers declare to have...again I do not care....if tomorrow another rmanufacturer makes a more compelling product for me I will switch in no time, I hold no brand allegiances....for what I was looking for in this particular moment the TL was the best for me, tomorrow who knows....
If makes you happy I will openly declare how superiors the German competion is if makes you happy....
This thread is over as far as I'm concerned.
Last edited by saturno_v; 11-12-2010 at 07:04 PM.
#1762
By the way, I hate to break it to you, but Lexus has the brand prestige and image of luxury in this country that BMW and MB do. They have the sales, offerings, reliability, and brand image to back it up. They might be for the most part bland and boring but people flock to them and when they think of luxury, BMW, MB, and LEXUS comes to mind the most. They worked hard for it and rightly deserve it.
#1763
#1764
I'm the Firestarter
Thank you for bringing that up...
I'm dead serious.....even if I had a very significantly larger budget, within my current usage pattern and if I was still limited to pick one car, the best vehicle for my needs/want out there was the TL.....I cannot get from anybody else a sedan as powerful, as large (so the S4 or the 335 are out), AWD and with a real manual transmission...
On top of that is drop dead gorgeaous (highly subjective I know)...I had actually people coming to me at parking lots telling me how nice it looks....park it next to an Audi or a Bimmer and you see who stands out....
Of course if I had a very large budget I could buy some other fun toys but a TL would be still in my garage....
I'm dead serious.....even if I had a very significantly larger budget, within my current usage pattern and if I was still limited to pick one car, the best vehicle for my needs/want out there was the TL.....I cannot get from anybody else a sedan as powerful, as large (so the S4 or the 335 are out), AWD and with a real manual transmission...
On top of that is drop dead gorgeaous (highly subjective I know)...I had actually people coming to me at parking lots telling me how nice it looks....park it next to an Audi or a Bimmer and you see who stands out....
Of course if I had a very large budget I could buy some other fun toys but a TL would be still in my garage....
The problem is, those objective reasons just aren't there. You just said it: "I cannot get from anybody else a sedan as powerful, as large". The reason is it's a sedan that provides good value vs. a similarly priced car, by cutting in other areas (that obviously you overlook or don't find important).
however your A4 is not more luxurious than my TL...end of the story...I'm not going to change my mind on that
![Shrug](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/shrug.gif)
#1765
I'm the Firestarter
Haldex isn't as poor as people would have you believe. I know some of them like to claim they can 'feel' the AWD engage mid-corner, but I think they're just off their rocker, considering how quickly it engages. There's no doubt a permanent AWD system is usually more flexible, however.
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#1766
I'm the Firestarter
Tell me where......there is a lightly different surface grain is some corners patches of the back seats where they round up and are stitched...is due to different treatment to make that sensitive part (constantly pulled apart) more cracking resistant (that particular patches as far as I know are actually higher grain)
It smells the same...as leather.....vynil is unmistakable to the touch...that can be a nasty lawsuit if they would not speficy the presence of vinyl in the brochures...
Look at the leather of the steering wheel for example...different touch and grain than the seats...again...for better wear resistance...
It smells the same...as leather.....vynil is unmistakable to the touch...that can be a nasty lawsuit if they would not speficy the presence of vinyl in the brochures...
Look at the leather of the steering wheel for example...different touch and grain than the seats...again...for better wear resistance...
#1767
http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...eat-lexus.html
Lexus more than doubled average incentive spending from a year earlier to $2,152 per vehicle in October, according to Santa Monica, California-based TrueCar.com. Mercedes increased average incentive spending by 9.4 percent to $4,389 in the month, the researcher said.
Lexus more than doubled average incentive spending from a year earlier to $2,152 per vehicle in October, according to Santa Monica, California-based TrueCar.com. Mercedes increased average incentive spending by 9.4 percent to $4,389 in the month, the researcher said.
#1768
Burning Brakes
#1769
The problem is, those objective reasons just aren't there. You just said it: "I cannot get from anybody else a sedan as powerful, as large". The reason is it's a sedan that provides good value vs. a similarly priced car, by cutting in other areas (that obviously you overlook or don't find important).
Let's rewind to a year ago from now, I ask you what were your choices for such a vehicle? (Again larger mid sized, luxury, and AWD + 6MT)
Maybe this will help you understand where we are coming from. Trust me, I know your position on it, and understand it completely as I often used to think the same exact way but I feel differently now about Acura's position because I understand what it is they are trying to do but it just so happens that they offer a vehicle which hit a unique combination that I have always wanted and hoped more would offer. Perhaps that is the difference.
Last edited by winstrolvtec; 11-12-2010 at 08:54 PM.
#1770
^Some brands just don't offer a product that appeals to me, or everyone for that matter, but that doesn't mean I bash or question them or don't like anything they offer or don't respect what they do. I know one thing, that I would find no real joy or purpose not owning a BMW or Audi, etc, and going to their forums to lend my perspective of them, especially if it was not a good one. I am not sure what I would be accomplishing.
#1771
I'm the Firestarter
Let me ask you a question, if you are in the market for a luxury sedan RIGHT NOW that is a large mid sized sedan, lets say over 95 cu ft of passenger volume, which is not an A4 or 3 series, C class, IS, etc, and want a 6MT and AWD combo which do you choose?
Let's rewind to a year ago from now, I ask you what were your choices for such a vehicle? (Again larger mid sized, luxury, and AWD + 6MT)
Maybe this will help you understand where we are coming from. Trust me, I know your position on it, and understand it completely as I often used to think the same exact way but I feel differently now about Acura's position because I understand what it is they are trying to do but it just so happens that they offer a vehicle which hit a unique combination that I have always wanted and hoped more would offer. Perhaps that is the difference.
Let's rewind to a year ago from now, I ask you what were your choices for such a vehicle? (Again larger mid sized, luxury, and AWD + 6MT)
Maybe this will help you understand where we are coming from. Trust me, I know your position on it, and understand it completely as I often used to think the same exact way but I feel differently now about Acura's position because I understand what it is they are trying to do but it just so happens that they offer a vehicle which hit a unique combination that I have always wanted and hoped more would offer. Perhaps that is the difference.
![Shrug](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/shrug.gif)
#1772
I'm the Firestarter
^Some brands just don't offer a product that appeals to me, or everyone for that matter, but that doesn't mean I bash or question them or don't like anything they offer or don't respect what they do. I know one thing, that I would find no real joy or purpose not owning a BMW or Audi, etc, and going to their forums to lend my perspective of them, especially if it was not a good one. I am not sure what I would be accomplishing.
#1773
I'm the Firestarter
It's a nice car, one of my friends owns one and I drove it a few times. I never drove the quattro though. I'm trying to convince my dad to buy the TDI. I'm telling him to wait until the next refresh which I thought was next year, but I just read in C&D that it's actually in 2013... he might need it before then.
#1774
Burning Brakes
This forum is full of fan boys and hypocrites. The fan boys go around being fan boys and the hypocrites go around bashing Acura, even though at some point these people bought Acura's themselves. Even the members who bought Acura products a long time ago probably remember being critisized by non Acura owners for buying "FWD understeering underpowered rebadged Hondas". And now that those same people have moved on to other brands they can critisize the current Acura owners. Its the old automotive forum member attitude of "It was a good brand when I owned one but now they just suck!"
I think the new TL is ugly. BUT its the best car Acura has ever produced. Over 300 Hp, SH-AWD, 6MT and a great interior. If you think its a POS then what does that make your Acura?
This is the brand that we all bought into. And rite now they are the best they have ever been - just like every other brand. They have more powerful motors, more advanced features, better quality materials etc - just like every other brand. It doesnt matter if an Integra brings back feelings of nostolgia and you wish there were still cars like that - A mazda 2 handles as well as an Integra now - everyones figured out how to make good cars. So if some of you think Acura is so bad now then what were you thinking when you bought your rebadged FWD Hondas? Or was it ok then but not anymore?
The Germans have been making superior RWD sport sedans for decades now, is this forum just a gathering of idiots who couldn't find the BMW dealership?
I think the new TL is ugly. BUT its the best car Acura has ever produced. Over 300 Hp, SH-AWD, 6MT and a great interior. If you think its a POS then what does that make your Acura?
This is the brand that we all bought into. And rite now they are the best they have ever been - just like every other brand. They have more powerful motors, more advanced features, better quality materials etc - just like every other brand. It doesnt matter if an Integra brings back feelings of nostolgia and you wish there were still cars like that - A mazda 2 handles as well as an Integra now - everyones figured out how to make good cars. So if some of you think Acura is so bad now then what were you thinking when you bought your rebadged FWD Hondas? Or was it ok then but not anymore?
The Germans have been making superior RWD sport sedans for decades now, is this forum just a gathering of idiots who couldn't find the BMW dealership?
#1775
This forum is full of fan boys and hypocrites. The fan boys go around being fan boys and the hypocrites go around bashing Acura, even though at some point these people bought Acura's themselves. Even the members who bought Acura products a long time ago probably remember being critisized by non Acura owners for buying "FWD understeering underpowered rebadged Hondas". And now that those same people have moved on to other brands they can critisize the current Acura owners. Its the old automotive forum member attitude of "It was a good brand when I owned one but now they just suck!"
I think the new TL is ugly. BUT its the best car Acura has ever produced. Over 300 Hp, SH-AWD, 6MT and a great interior. If you think its a POS then what does that make your Acura?
This is the brand that we all bought into. And rite now they are the best they have ever been - just like every other brand. They have more powerful motors, more advanced features, better quality materials etc - just like every other brand. It doesnt matter if an Integra brings back feelings of nostolgia and you wish there were still cars like that - A mazda 2 handles as well as an Integra now - everyones figured out how to make good cars. So if some of you think Acura is so bad now then what were you thinking when you bought your rebadged FWD Hondas? Or was it ok then but not anymore?
The Germans have been making superior RWD sport sedans for decades now, is this forum just a gathering of idiots who couldn't find the BMW dealership?
I think the new TL is ugly. BUT its the best car Acura has ever produced. Over 300 Hp, SH-AWD, 6MT and a great interior. If you think its a POS then what does that make your Acura?
This is the brand that we all bought into. And rite now they are the best they have ever been - just like every other brand. They have more powerful motors, more advanced features, better quality materials etc - just like every other brand. It doesnt matter if an Integra brings back feelings of nostolgia and you wish there were still cars like that - A mazda 2 handles as well as an Integra now - everyones figured out how to make good cars. So if some of you think Acura is so bad now then what were you thinking when you bought your rebadged FWD Hondas? Or was it ok then but not anymore?
The Germans have been making superior RWD sport sedans for decades now, is this forum just a gathering of idiots who couldn't find the BMW dealership?
#1776
There are subjective reasons to buy a TL but if he says he'd buy one regardless of price, he's clearly buying it because he just wants THAT car. He even said he also shopped for a 5-series but the version with more power was too expensive for him.
The only reason to buy the 5 over it was for subjective reasonings IMO, which was mostly the added level of luxury but not worth $20k extra IMO. Objectively there are a few added features in the 5 but nothing crazy and the TL has the electric steering and active torque vectoring as well as better crash, resale, and reliability ratings. Less luxurious but the better financial and automotive decision, IMO.
The new 5 adds even more distinction over a TL but also went up in price and lost the 6MT and AWD combo as well as the xDrive option in the 528 at the same time, so that raises the TL value proposition even more to a consumer like myself.
I would imagine Saturno feels the same way and that is what he meant by regardless of his financing that he would get a TL because he feels that it is the best value in the entire market and too good a deal to pass up, not that it is the best in every way just that cars similar to that, in almost every category, usually go for 30%-35% more and there are not many products available like it.
How about if you owned both a BMW and an Acura and you went to both boards and you talked about both cars in the "Automotive News" section of one of the boards because you like to hear what other people who perhaps drive different cars like to bring to the discussion? Does that make sense?
Then there is the issue with the higher amount of like minded individuals here sticking together and sharing the same opinions on a constant basis while someone like me or Saturno come in and see something completely different and share our perspectives but few people don't care to hear or discuss what we have to say or our perspectives on anything, only because it is not the same.
You get labeled a fanboy whether it is called for or not and then we limit our discussion because we are being outcasted and therefore the whole point of what you just suggested that there should be a civil sharing of perspectives doesn't actually exist because some don't want to allow it.
Maybe because it contradicts the common ideas and themes that are often discussed here. I don't really know what it is all about only that it is what goes on and all while some are now saying that they want to see what the TL SH may be all about now because of the fanboys crazy Acura rants. That's the idea though, to be open minded and not write anything off until it gets it's fair shake.
#1777
Senior Moderator
This forum is full of fan boys and hypocrites. The fan boys go around being fan boys and the hypocrites go around bashing Acura, even though at some point these people bought Acura's themselves. Even the members who bought Acura products a long time ago probably remember being critisized by non Acura owners for buying "FWD understeering underpowered rebadged Hondas". And now that those same people have moved on to other brands they can critisize the current Acura owners. Its the old automotive forum member attitude of "It was a good brand when I owned one but now they just suck!"
I think the new TL is ugly. BUT its the best car Acura has ever produced. Over 300 Hp, SH-AWD, 6MT and a great interior. If you think its a POS then what does that make your Acura?
This is the brand that we all bought into. And rite now they are the best they have ever been - just like every other brand. They have more powerful motors, more advanced features, better quality materials etc - just like every other brand. It doesnt matter if an Integra brings back feelings of nostolgia and you wish there were still cars like that - A mazda 2 handles as well as an Integra now - everyones figured out how to make good cars. So if some of you think Acura is so bad now then what were you thinking when you bought your rebadged FWD Hondas? Or was it ok then but not anymore?
The Germans have been making superior RWD sport sedans for decades now, is this forum just a gathering of idiots who couldn't find the BMW dealership?
I think the new TL is ugly. BUT its the best car Acura has ever produced. Over 300 Hp, SH-AWD, 6MT and a great interior. If you think its a POS then what does that make your Acura?
This is the brand that we all bought into. And rite now they are the best they have ever been - just like every other brand. They have more powerful motors, more advanced features, better quality materials etc - just like every other brand. It doesnt matter if an Integra brings back feelings of nostolgia and you wish there were still cars like that - A mazda 2 handles as well as an Integra now - everyones figured out how to make good cars. So if some of you think Acura is so bad now then what were you thinking when you bought your rebadged FWD Hondas? Or was it ok then but not anymore?
The Germans have been making superior RWD sport sedans for decades now, is this forum just a gathering of idiots who couldn't find the BMW dealership?
No this is the area that hurts fanboys feelings, and is a area where most have move past out dated hondas. Dare i say, If you dont like it stay out of it and stay in the model specific areas where you might not get your feelings hurt?
#1778
Senior Moderator
And at what point do we consider something as have given it a fair shake? I think i have given them the "fair shake" in my 15+ years of having owned and driven them. Am i along with others not allowed to reach our own conclusions as to really not caring for the direction they have gone or do we have to bite our lips because we are on a acura forum. Maybe many of us are hoping (knowing that they do read these) that Acura "may" see some of our displeasure and try to accommodate some of the old die-hards that are having a hard time liking what we are given? Again, this is car talk, its devoted to all brands, It doesnt mean because we are on a acura forum we all have to like them. Those that like them can stay and discuss their like in the specific model areas. This area is for ALL makes, some will like, some wont.
#1779
My first Avatar....
^
Thank you.
and
at the devotees of Acura who are all butt hurt because those of us who have owned more than one Acura, no longer like the direction the company is going with the cars they make.
News flash...cars change...people change...get used to it.
I guess you devotees can't appreciate, I'll purposely leave out "german makes", the new Buick Regal, The Cadillac CTS/V, The Coyote engine in the new Mustangs? That's a shame, because these are the things that make autos so f***ing great. Differences! But as a devotee of one particular brand I suppose one can't allow himself to see and appreciate the differences. Your loss I suppose.
fsttyms1 offered the best advice ever to the devotees...stay in the model specific areas where your butt is less likely to get all hurt.
Thank you.
and
![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
News flash...cars change...people change...get used to it.
I guess you devotees can't appreciate, I'll purposely leave out "german makes", the new Buick Regal, The Cadillac CTS/V, The Coyote engine in the new Mustangs? That's a shame, because these are the things that make autos so f***ing great. Differences! But as a devotee of one particular brand I suppose one can't allow himself to see and appreciate the differences. Your loss I suppose.
fsttyms1 offered the best advice ever to the devotees...stay in the model specific areas where your butt is less likely to get all hurt.
![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
#1780
Burning Brakes
#1781
My first Avatar....
#1782
A lot of things have changed since i bought my acura. When i purchased mine they were a great value vs content. Not many others could offer what they did. They were better back then, now no.
Now they look like something i would want to drive into a brick wall to make look better.
They allowed every one to catch up and havent remained ahead of every one else. That is the problem, they are behind in just about every thing. I dont see them any where near what they once were.
They are also more successful and profitable in recent years than in the past, right now we are seeing the effects of the economic conditions and not much more, also reflected by others brands as well.
No this is the area that hurts fanboys feelings, and is a area where most have move past out dated hondas. Dare i say, If you dont like it stay out of it and stay in the model specific areas where you might not get your feelings hurt?
And at what point do we consider something as have given it a fair shake? I think i have given them the "fair shake" in my 15+ years of having owned and driven them. Am i along with others not allowed to reach our own conclusions as to really not caring for the direction they have gone or do we have to bite our lips because we are on a acura forum. Maybe many of us are hoping (knowing that they do read these) that Acura "may" see some of our displeasure and try to accommodate some of the old die-hards that are having a hard time liking what we are given? Again, this is car talk, its devoted to all brands, It doesnt mean because we are on a acura forum we all have to like them. Those that like them can stay and discuss their like in the specific model areas. This area is for ALL makes, some will like, some wont.
Based on your harsh reactions it appears to me that it's your butt that got hurt and that is also based on all your other numerous bitter posts that are overly apparent and obvious. I am not hurt at all, I bought one of the most internet critisized car of all times knowingly so you think I care what you guys think?
Hate to break it to you but if Acura hasn't made any changes based on your crossed fingers and post bashing by now that it's not going to happen anytime soon so at what point does the anti Acura sentiment get reduced to a fair and objective perspective of them and the competiton they compete with?
And when does everyone get a say outside of the model specific threads, including real supporters and die hards and not just Acura's leftovers?
#1783
News flash...cars change...people change...get used to it.
That's a shame, because these are the things that make autos so f***ing great. Differences! But as a devotee of one particular brand I suppose one can't allow himself to see and appreciate the differences. Your loss I suppose.
That's a shame, because these are the things that make autos so f***ing great. Differences! But as a devotee of one particular brand I suppose one can't allow himself to see and appreciate the differences. Your loss I suppose.
fsttyms1 offered the best advice ever to the devotees...stay in the model specific areas where your butt is less likely to get all hurt.
Last edited by winstrolvtec; 11-13-2010 at 02:21 AM.
#1784
6G TLX-S
A lot of things have changed since i bought my acura. When i purchased mine they were a great value vs content. Not many others could offer what they did. They were better back then, now no. Now they look like something i would want to drive into a brick wall to make look better. They allowed every one to catch up and havent remained ahead of every one else. That is the problem, they are behind in just about every thing. I dont see them any where near what they once were.
No this is the area that hurts fanboys feelings, and is a area where most have move past out dated hondas. Dare i say, If you dont like it stay out of it and stay in the model specific areas where you might not get your feelings hurt?
No this is the area that hurts fanboys feelings, and is a area where most have move past out dated hondas. Dare i say, If you dont like it stay out of it and stay in the model specific areas where you might not get your feelings hurt?
I bought my 2G TL-S because then it had class-leading horsepower at 260 when all it's direct competitors were merely around 200hp. Cheap vinyl and plastic trims had become immaterial when I could outrun almost anything in the same class at the traffic lights.
However, other than the SH-AWD, there has not been any significant class-leading technology to be released in recent Acura products. Acura is now seriously lagging in engine output, engine technology (eg., direct injection), transmission technology (eg., dual-clutch auto), hybrid technology, diesel technology, etc., etc.
Even the SH-AWD, which was class-leading 5 years ago, is no longer class-leading when other auto makers such as Audi, BMW, Nissan, Porsche, and Volvo, have now been releasing their own versions of torque-vectoring AWD.
Especially when the other auto makers are pairing their torque-vectoring AWD with V8 power, which put the 305hp-V6 SH-AWD at a disadvantage.
Some people might think being negative with Acura is Acura bashing. This is not bashing by any means. These are the desperate calls from Acura fans who want the Acura products to be great, and the Acura brand to become famous. These are the functions and/or features that Acura buyers want in future Acura products, and the company direction that Acura buyers want the Acura brand to be heading in.
Listening to buyers' needs and building products that buyers want, are what make a product great and a company to be successful. (The 4G-TL peck and the RL package are definitely not what buyers want.)
This is like father-son or teacher-student relationship with us being the father/teacher and the Acura brand being the son/student. We, as buyers of Acura products, want the Acura brand to head in the right direction, and the Acura products to be desirable (=sellable).
Just wish that the upcoming MMC 2012 TL would have a dual-clutch-auto 350hp Type-S trim.
#1785
Team Owner
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Fontana, California
Age: 47
Posts: 30,991
Received 582 Likes
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A lot of things have changed since i bought my acura. When i purchased mine they were a great value vs content. Not many others could offer what they did. They were better back then, now no. Now they look like something i would want to drive into a brick wall to make look better. They allowed every one to catch up and havent remained ahead of every one else. That is the problem, they are behind in just about every thing. I dont see them any where near what they once were.
No this is the area that hurts fanboys feelings, and is a area where most have move past out dated hondas. Dare i say, If you dont like it stay out of it and stay in the model specific areas where you might not get your feelings hurt?
No this is the area that hurts fanboys feelings, and is a area where most have move past out dated hondas. Dare i say, If you dont like it stay out of it and stay in the model specific areas where you might not get your feelings hurt?
#1786
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Lower Nazzie, Pa
Age: 46
Posts: 5,349
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Sales talk..they weathering the storm quite well and dealership showrooms seems quite full (at least in the Northwest)l...I never had to fight as much as I did for the TL to get the deal I wanted....
I did not bludgeon anybody, I just respond to uninformed unfounded assertions, however I will refrain even to do so in the future...seems to me that your either join the bashing or you are a "fanboy"....I respectfully say that I'm a quite bit disappointed at the level of discussion I been seeing on here...technical knowledge seems to be a premium...
#1787
Could've fooled me that you didn't care. I love it when people justify that they are right because it's their "opinion". You're entitled to your opinion...but just because its an opinion doesn't mean it's true. Any moron can have an "opinion" that their POS '86 ford escort can handle better than a lotus elise...they're entitled to it. It may be WRONG, but they're entitled to it, just like how you and SSFTSUX are entitled to your opinions, no matter how factually WRONG they are.
The problem is most are coming from a point of view that suggests they need to improve to win back my business while others see it as though they don't necessarily need anything more than what they do and are working on to continue to be one of the better selling luxury brands.
Then we hear the they were so much better when I had one argument. Objectively that's not true, I will say they are a bit less competitive then before but that might be because they are doing better finacially so they relaxed and when everyone jumped on the RWD bandwagon they resisted but that's not going to happen so complaining along those lines is futile and that includes the V8 as well.
The TL never offered AWD or anything above 300 HP, the two things that everyone always insisted that it needed. The LATEST one has that. It now gets mid level consideration as a tweener something it never received before because of that. The TSX needed a V6, it got one, the lineup needs a 6AT for added performance and fuel economy, it's almost on every model, the J series is still very competitive, that's wearing thin but a new one is almost done. A coupe, full sized sedan, and sub model are coming out, we should expect to see an SH TSX at some point. Revised grills and toned down styling is also making the rounds.
That is more to the point of the thread about future models but how much more do they have to get their shit together from there on? Because hoping for much of anything else and you will be holding your breath. Sorry to sound like a fanboy and have to be so contradicting but I am just being a realist. Why do I get the feeling that no matter what they do the same indivduals here won't be happy?
#1788
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Age: 37
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IMO, I don't see how Acura is getting behind.....if they are behind now, then I think they were even further behind before. Like others have mentioned, beside being cheap, previous Acuras didn't really have any strong points. The only exception would be the Integra. However, that is not exactly a luxury vehicle IMO and I am not sure what cars it was competing with.
Someone mentioned about how Acuras used to have class leading power and gave the 2g TL-S as an example. First, the J series back then was kinda new, and now it's at the end of its cycle. Second, sure, the J32A2 used to make 260hp back then. But it wasn't the fastest either. The 231hp 330i was as fast, if not faster. Let's not talk about its handling. I believe C/D got 0.81g. Can someone remind me how much g the current TL is pulling? 0.93g? Also, it didn't take long for others to catch up and match the 2g TL-s power, namely the G35.
People always talk about how Honda is a motor company but its engines are getting outdated. To a certain degree, that's true - if you only talk about the "big things" like direct injection. But people don't seem to look at the detail. For instance, you have to step up to the Z06 to get a forged crank in a Corvette product. The J series has that. I don't know, but whenever I read the press release, I do see a lot of racing techs put in the engine design, stuff that other engines don't have. Don't get me wrong, the J series is getting old, and it doesn't outperform others anymore. It's still competitive though. Obviously just like you guys, I expect Honda engines to blow the competition away and I think we will see that when the new engine series comes out.
Someone mentioned about how Acuras used to have class leading power and gave the 2g TL-S as an example. First, the J series back then was kinda new, and now it's at the end of its cycle. Second, sure, the J32A2 used to make 260hp back then. But it wasn't the fastest either. The 231hp 330i was as fast, if not faster. Let's not talk about its handling. I believe C/D got 0.81g. Can someone remind me how much g the current TL is pulling? 0.93g? Also, it didn't take long for others to catch up and match the 2g TL-s power, namely the G35.
People always talk about how Honda is a motor company but its engines are getting outdated. To a certain degree, that's true - if you only talk about the "big things" like direct injection. But people don't seem to look at the detail. For instance, you have to step up to the Z06 to get a forged crank in a Corvette product. The J series has that. I don't know, but whenever I read the press release, I do see a lot of racing techs put in the engine design, stuff that other engines don't have. Don't get me wrong, the J series is getting old, and it doesn't outperform others anymore. It's still competitive though. Obviously just like you guys, I expect Honda engines to blow the competition away and I think we will see that when the new engine series comes out.
#1789
I dont see Acura falling behinds. MDX/TL are the best handling vehicles in there category. TSX V6 is best handling FWD car with best real world fuel economy despite having 5speed Auto & no sport setup.
Acura has strong record in reliability/resale vaue and quality of put together various parts.
You just cant measure brand progress by amount of new technology alone
Brand has progressed alot in past 10 years. Much more than Lexus/Infiniti. when sale of high value vehicles are concerned.
Acura has strong record in reliability/resale vaue and quality of put together various parts.
You just cant measure brand progress by amount of new technology alone
Brand has progressed alot in past 10 years. Much more than Lexus/Infiniti. when sale of high value vehicles are concerned.
#1790
http://www.hybridcars.com/news/honda...-us-28888.html
Home / News /
Honda CR-Z Is Award-Winner in Japan, Dissed in U.S.
Published November 10, 2010
The Japanese Prime Minister, Kan Naoto, is presenting Japan’s Good Design Grand Award today to the Honda CR-Z sporty hybrid. This follows yesterday’s news that the CR-Z was named the 2011 winner of Japan’s prestigious Car Of The Year award. These honors punctuate a triumphant first year for the CR-Z, in which the hybrid greatly surpassed sales expectations in Japan and enjoyed an overwhelmingly positive reception in its home country. In March 2010, its first month on the Japanese market, the CR-Z moved more than 10,000 units—10 times Honda's monthly sales target for the vehicle.
Meanwhile, back in the United States—where the CR-Z was released this summer—critics have been rough on the vehicle, with most complaining that it lacks performance or fuel efficiency, or both. The CR-Z offers 122 horsepower and average fuel economy rating of 37 mpg.
Depending on your slant, it's true the CR-Z isn't the most fuel-efficient hybrid out there, or the sportiest subcompact. For many American critics, the CR-Z's inability to be best at anything rendered it a failure at everything. The 2010 CR-Z failed to reach the short list of candidates for this year’s North American Car of the Year award.
Luckily for Honda, the U.S. consumer market has been somewhat more forgiving. Since its first full month of availability in August, the CR-Z has become the fourth most popular hybrid in the U.S. Sales have been consistent, with Honda racking up more than 3,300 sales in about 9 weeks. Those figures may not be as robust as sales numbers in Japan, but neither is America's current appetite for hybrids or small cars.
Get Over the Nostalgia
The CR-Z has suffered bad reviews mostly because U.S. auto critics have not been able to rekindle their love affair with the discontinued Honda CR-X—the 1980s automotive icon that served as an inspiration for the new hybrid CR-Z. The CR-X is remembered for its blend of sportiness and efficiency in a small package, as well as its adaptability as a tuner car. But like many memories of past loves, they can deceive.
"People forget what the CR-X really was, or they think it’s something that it’s not,” said Woody Rogers, who owned and loved his 1988 Honda CR-X. “By today’s standards, that old CR-X is painfully slow, small, unsafe, cramped, and has poor visibility. Yet, it was fun to drive. Compared to everything else that was available in 1988, that thing was a gas.”
Rogers, a tire information specialist at Tirerack.com, was very impressed by his recent experience with the CR-Z on the company’s test track. "Compared to our old CR-X, the CR-Z's engine was more well-refined. The fit, the feel, the look, the fittings in the car, it was so reminiscent." After reading the bad reviews, Rogers didn’t want to like the CR-Z—but after his drive was considering trading in his Mini Cooper S for the hybrid.
For those who have been turned-off by the CR-Z's perceived lack of power, Automotive News recently suggested that Honda will produce a high-performance version of the hybrid. Rogers likes the idea. “If the CR-Z had just a little more power, I think they’d really have something,” he said.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Home / News /
Honda CR-Z Is Award-Winner in Japan, Dissed in U.S.
Published November 10, 2010
The Japanese Prime Minister, Kan Naoto, is presenting Japan’s Good Design Grand Award today to the Honda CR-Z sporty hybrid. This follows yesterday’s news that the CR-Z was named the 2011 winner of Japan’s prestigious Car Of The Year award. These honors punctuate a triumphant first year for the CR-Z, in which the hybrid greatly surpassed sales expectations in Japan and enjoyed an overwhelmingly positive reception in its home country. In March 2010, its first month on the Japanese market, the CR-Z moved more than 10,000 units—10 times Honda's monthly sales target for the vehicle.
Meanwhile, back in the United States—where the CR-Z was released this summer—critics have been rough on the vehicle, with most complaining that it lacks performance or fuel efficiency, or both. The CR-Z offers 122 horsepower and average fuel economy rating of 37 mpg.
Depending on your slant, it's true the CR-Z isn't the most fuel-efficient hybrid out there, or the sportiest subcompact. For many American critics, the CR-Z's inability to be best at anything rendered it a failure at everything. The 2010 CR-Z failed to reach the short list of candidates for this year’s North American Car of the Year award.
Luckily for Honda, the U.S. consumer market has been somewhat more forgiving. Since its first full month of availability in August, the CR-Z has become the fourth most popular hybrid in the U.S. Sales have been consistent, with Honda racking up more than 3,300 sales in about 9 weeks. Those figures may not be as robust as sales numbers in Japan, but neither is America's current appetite for hybrids or small cars.
Get Over the Nostalgia
The CR-Z has suffered bad reviews mostly because U.S. auto critics have not been able to rekindle their love affair with the discontinued Honda CR-X—the 1980s automotive icon that served as an inspiration for the new hybrid CR-Z. The CR-X is remembered for its blend of sportiness and efficiency in a small package, as well as its adaptability as a tuner car. But like many memories of past loves, they can deceive.
"People forget what the CR-X really was, or they think it’s something that it’s not,” said Woody Rogers, who owned and loved his 1988 Honda CR-X. “By today’s standards, that old CR-X is painfully slow, small, unsafe, cramped, and has poor visibility. Yet, it was fun to drive. Compared to everything else that was available in 1988, that thing was a gas.”
Rogers, a tire information specialist at Tirerack.com, was very impressed by his recent experience with the CR-Z on the company’s test track. "Compared to our old CR-X, the CR-Z's engine was more well-refined. The fit, the feel, the look, the fittings in the car, it was so reminiscent." After reading the bad reviews, Rogers didn’t want to like the CR-Z—but after his drive was considering trading in his Mini Cooper S for the hybrid.
For those who have been turned-off by the CR-Z's perceived lack of power, Automotive News recently suggested that Honda will produce a high-performance version of the hybrid. Rogers likes the idea. “If the CR-Z had just a little more power, I think they’d really have something,” he said.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#1791
My first Avatar....
That is more to the point of the thread about future models but how much more do they have to get their shit together from there on? Because hoping for much of anything else and you will be holding your breath. Sorry to sound like a fanboy and have to be so contradicting but I am just being a realist. Why do I get the feeling that no matter what they do the same indivduals here won't be happy?
![Shrug](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/shrug.gif)
Lets make it simple....Acura....build a good looking car that is fun to drive.
The TSX is as close as it gets right now, and it's still not good enough. (for me)
The 4G TL? Well, it's not what I expected.
![Snicker](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/emot-laugh.gif)
Like fsttyms1 said a collision with a brick wall would be an improvement.
It's so bad that the MMC will "revise" the cow catcher, and the "tramp stamp" on the ass end will be "revised" as well.
Want a real world example of how bad the 4G TL is around here? My local dealer has 3 4Gs sitting on their lot with "after market" grills on them, and the tramp stamp painted body color, just so they can get them off their lot.
Good stuff! All signs of a successful car.
#1793
My first Avatar....
^
![Why Me](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/whyme.gif)
You have to post pics? We know what the squatting dogs ass looks like. We know the tramp stamp.
Good job by you.
![Why Me](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/whyme.gif)
You have to post pics? We know what the squatting dogs ass looks like. We know the tramp stamp.
Good job by you.
#1794
Burning Brakes
It's alright if you're a fanboi and you admit it. I just can't imagine being so blindly loyal to a car company. ![Shrug](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/shrug.gif)
Lets make it simple....Acura....build a good looking car that is fun to drive.
The TSX is as close as it gets right now, and it's still not good enough. (for me)
The 4G TL? Well, it's not what I expected.
Like fsttyms1 said a collision with a brick wall would be an improvement.
![Shrug](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/shrug.gif)
Lets make it simple....Acura....build a good looking car that is fun to drive.
The TSX is as close as it gets right now, and it's still not good enough. (for me)
The 4G TL? Well, it's not what I expected.
![Snicker](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/emot-laugh.gif)
Like fsttyms1 said a collision with a brick wall would be an improvement.
![Dunno](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/dunno.gif)
#1795
Burning Brakes
100% agree.
I bought my 2G TL-S because then it had class-leading horsepower at 260 when all it's direct competitors were merely around 200hp. Cheap vinyl and plastic trims had become immaterial when I could outrun almost anything in the same class at the traffic lights.
However, other than the SH-AWD, there has not been any significant class-leading technology to be released in recent Acura products. Acura is now seriously lagging in engine output, engine technology (eg., direct injection), transmission technology (eg., dual-clutch auto), hybrid technology, diesel technology, etc., etc.
I bought my 2G TL-S because then it had class-leading horsepower at 260 when all it's direct competitors were merely around 200hp. Cheap vinyl and plastic trims had become immaterial when I could outrun almost anything in the same class at the traffic lights.
However, other than the SH-AWD, there has not been any significant class-leading technology to be released in recent Acura products. Acura is now seriously lagging in engine output, engine technology (eg., direct injection), transmission technology (eg., dual-clutch auto), hybrid technology, diesel technology, etc., etc.
Lets use the Maxima as an example. In 2002 there was a 5 hp difference in favor of the TYPE-S TL. In 2009 the TL-AWD has 305 HP and the Maxima has 290 HP. 15 hp advantage to the TL (I am using your Type-S even though the Maxima should be compared to the base TL)
Lexus and Infiniti are not using dual-clutch trans, or diesel engines in the states. Do you think they are lagging in technology too?
As far as engine output is considered, well thats not something thats debateable. Here is the TL among competitors:
Mercedes C350: 268hp
BMW 335i: 300hp
Lexus GS: 303hp
Infiniti G37: 330hp
TL-SH AWD: 305 hp
A Cadillac CTS has 304hp with Direct Injection. Thats 1 less than the outdated and sans technology TL motor. So the TL has the second highest power output amongst these similarily priced competitors.
I dont even care for the TL or any of these cars that I mentioned. I cannot afford them or the gas/maintenance bills that that they bring. I would just like too see your claims backed up by some numbers. (eg. your claim that TL competitors had merely 200hp)
Again, just because you own it, doesnt make it the bestest car in the world.
![Why Me](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/whyme.gif)
#1796
My first Avatar....
The car that would look better after running into a brick wall is still a better car than anything you or I own. At the end of the day, 4G SH-AWD owners are having a better ownership experience than anyone else on here who bought other Acura products. They have the best performance and best interior Acura has ever made. Yes you can write off the car based simply on looks - I would too. But I am an objective person and I realize that overall Acura still makes very high quality cars - thats not saying that they make better cars than anyone on the planet ![Dunno](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/dunno.gif)
![Dunno](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/dunno.gif)
My ownership experience has been basically trouble free. How are 4G SHAWD owners having a better ownership experience? Is it because the new generation bumped up the HP output on the car? Is is because the 4G added the AWD option? Isn't it incumbent on a car maker to keep their car competitive in the market? The 4G had BETTER be improved over the 3G. It's the way it should be. I will say that the base 4G is not that much improved on the 3G TL.
HOWEVER an area where Acura FAILED = looks. A car doesn't have to keep growing to obese proportions with nauseating looks, not just my opinion, that every professional review I've ever read has made a snide or negative comment about. I've already mentioned above what my local dealer is trying to do to sell the 4G
![Why Me](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/whyme.gif)
I believe my ownership experience has been right where it should be for an 06 TL. I also have the ability to look at my car and think it's still a good looking car even now. I don't know what 4G owners think when they look at their car.
![Ugly](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/ugly.gif)
![Puke](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/puke.gif)
As good as my ownership experience has been for the past 10 years with Acura, my days with them are numbered because there are too many other alternatives out there that interest me, which are ALSO aesthetically pleasing. Sorry, not only do I need a good soul, but I need a pretty face before I can take the girl home.
Last edited by pttl; 11-13-2010 at 06:58 PM.
#1797
Interior is very excellent design. TL striking looks are second to none. with MMC it will be the best in the class as no other car will handle like it or as fast or fuel efficient on 6cylinder/6AT.
![](http://gallery.carreview.com/data/car/749/2010_acura_tl_12.jpg)
![](http://www.acuratlsite.info/images/2010/08/112_0906_11z+2009_acura_TL_SH_AWD+interior_view.jpg)
#1798
Burning Brakes
There's no doubt the new TL has a nice interior, and the push-button start is a nice touch. But I remember looking at a TL again after my 3G was gone and I just thought it looked way too bloated.
#1799
My first Avatar....
#1800
Suzuka Master
Acura TL is ranked among the highest in Consumer reports. After MMC it will be only car with all 5 stars safety like Honda Accord that surpasses newest BMW 5.
Interior is very excellent design. TL striking looks are second to none. with MMC it will be the best in the class as no other car will handle like it or as fast or fuel efficient on 6cylinder/6AT.
[
Interior is very excellent design. TL striking looks are second to none. with MMC it will be the best in the class as no other car will handle like it or as fast or fuel efficient on 6cylinder/6AT.
[
As far as handling goes, I'm sure the 335i or 335xi can out handle the tl. Probably even the 5 series. Fuel consumption. Acura tl 17/25mpg. 335i 17/28, 535i 20/30. All 6 cylinder engines with roughly the same output numbers and the acura is the least fuel efficient. Audi's A4 also beats it in fuel efficiency. Mercedes C350 ties it.