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BMW: Development and Technology News

 
Old 06-04-2008, 07:41 PM
  #121  
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Old 06-04-2008, 08:16 PM
  #122  
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All that curves and they didn't even bother to change the steering wheel
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Old 09-04-2008, 01:38 PM
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Lightbulb BMW: Considers 4 Cylinder Engines for North American Market

BMW Close to Deciding on 4 Cylinder 1 & 3 Series for the US
Posted: September 3rd, 2008

As reported yesterday, BMW will slowly phase out 6-cylinder engine production at its Munich plant in favor for 4-cylinder engines. BMW plans on producing 240,000 4-cylinder units a year. According to InsideLine, BMW is now close to confirming that it will indeed add four-cylinder engines to its 3-Series and 1-Series lineup in North America.

Why? Well for one the 6-cylinder 1-Series hasnt given BMW the response it was looking for in North America mainly due to the pricing factor which can be reduced when offering a less powerful 4-cylinder engine. Second, rival Mercedes-Benz has already confirmed that it will bring 4-cylinder diesel engines to its U.S. lineup by 2010.

The BMW 320i and 120i are volume sellers for BMW in Europe. BMWs project director Oliver Friedmann believes it will have a huge impact in the U.S. as well.

As for 4-cylinder turbodiesels in the U.S., Freidmann says that North America is just not ready for them.

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Old 09-04-2008, 01:40 PM
  #124  
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on not bringing the turbo-diesel to the states.
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Old 09-04-2008, 02:07 PM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S View Post
on not bringing the turbo-diesel to the states.
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Old 09-04-2008, 02:12 PM
  #126  
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They better be potent 4-cylinders. I don't think anything less than a 6-cylinder can move these German orcas effectively.
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Old 09-04-2008, 02:55 PM
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orcas? an 07 tsx weighs 3230 lbs, an 06 325i weighs 3280.

swapping a 4 banger in there would make it weigh even less, as would putting it in a 1 series.

god forbid bmw releases anything as slow as a tsx.
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Old 09-04-2008, 03:14 PM
  #128  
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My guess they will have 4cyl w/ turbo.

They already have a nice one in the Cooper S.
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Old 09-04-2008, 04:23 PM
  #129  
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BMW used to be about balance and handling. The twin turbos changed that. There's definitely room for fun and efficient vehicles. If S2000 can be so much fun, no reason why a BMW with I4 can't.
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Old 09-04-2008, 04:39 PM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by stopsign View Post
orcas? an 07 tsx weighs 3230 lbs, an 06 325i weighs 3280.

swapping a 4 banger in there would make it weigh even less, as would putting it in a 1 series.

god forbid bmw releases anything as slow as a tsx.
The TSX ain't no lightweight either.
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Old 09-04-2008, 05:46 PM
  #131  
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BMW got burnt once with the virtually powerless 318ti coupe back in the 90's. That car was a major setback to the "performance" image associated with the BMW brand.

So BMW is careful not to repeat the same mistake again.
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Old 09-04-2008, 06:43 PM
  #132  
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I hope its a turbo 4. A N/A 4 would be a hellaciously gay move for a brand like BMW
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Old 09-04-2008, 07:52 PM
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Well considering the 318i failed, I don't know if this would be a good move, but times have changed and consumers want more options.
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Old 09-04-2008, 08:02 PM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by Mokos23 View Post
Well considering the 318i failed, I don't know if this would be a good move, but times have changed and consumers want more options.
But a highly boosted 4-cylinder engine, like the ones on the Impreza WRX STi and Lancer Evo X, will do the job well for BMW. Just not a lame small displacement 4-cylinder.
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Old 09-04-2008, 08:09 PM
  #135  
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Anyone have the specs of the 120 and 320? The article states that they are in production in Europe already.
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Old 09-04-2008, 08:13 PM
  #136  
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According to BMW blog the expected power output will be at 170hp from a N/A 2 litre motor. What a bummer, this will be much slower than the 2.5L V6.
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Old 09-05-2008, 02:10 PM
  #137  
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How quickly folks forget that the 323 from just a few years ago had about 170HP. Living in a relative world makes it seem like BMW is taking a huge step backwards but trust me, folks will buy a 320 without any issues.
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Old 09-06-2008, 03:15 PM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by Gfaze View Post
x2
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Old 09-07-2008, 06:21 AM
  #139  
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Everyone in Europe is asking for turbocharged 4-cylinder engines from BMW. They feel it's not fair to them for BMW to have such powerful "larger" engines, which are more favorable to USA customer and not apply force-feeding to their smaller engines which are more popular in Europe. However, in Europe they prefer diesel (4 cyl) engines and those have turbos most of the time.

Here is what's happening with the 3 series sedan for example in Europe (the engines are the same for the 1 Series):

316i (gas) = 1.6L = 122 HP = 118 lb/ft @ 4250 rpm
318i (gas) = 2.0L = 143 HP = 140 lb/ft @ 4250 rpm
320i (gas) = 2.0L = 170 HP = 155 lb/ft @ 4250 rpm
318d (diesel) = 2.0L = 143 HP 221 lb/ft @ 1750-2000 rpm
320d (diesel) = 2.0L = 177 HP 258 lb/ft @ 1750-3000 rpm

Acceleration is as follows (per BMW which is always conservative):

0 to 62.5 mph

316i = 10.8 secs
318i = 9.1
320i = 8.2
318d = 9.3
320d = 7.9

And as a FYI the 6 Cylinder 325i (gas) makes 218 HP from 3 Liters there and comes as an AWD also (optional). The rest of the engines we know

So with respect to acceleration, a 320i would make sense here (8.2 for the 0-62.5 mph means 8.0 for the 0-60mph and because it's BMW giving us the number, C+D will probably get a 7.8 secs), but it does lack in torque. If they added turbos it would be great but probably too expensive because a lot would have to be redesigned, maybe even everything.

Btw, the engine in the MINI it's a Peugeot/Citroen/BMW partnership engine and it's designed for FWD cars so it's out of the question.

Finally there is a 123d engine for the 1 Series which is a 2.0L 4 cyl engine, making 204 HP and 295 lb/ft and goes for the 62.5 mph in 7 seconds flat.
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Old 09-07-2008, 02:17 PM
  #140  
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As I said, the 320 of today is equivalent to the 323 of a few years ago. The problem for BMW will be that even tho they might offer the 320, they can't lower the price much so that the customer will be in a "might as well" mode and pay the extra 1-2K to get the 325.
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Old 09-09-2008, 03:24 PM
  #141  
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320D would be nice but turbo it please, I mean look the A4 gets at least 200hp with a 2.0 litre engine. Also the Saab 9-3 gets at least 200hp I mean hell even the TSX gets at least 200hp from its 4 cylinder. BMW needs to coming up with better technology for their smaller engine.
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:24 PM
  #142  
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I thought that Mini filled this niche stateside for BMW.
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Old 09-09-2008, 07:56 PM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by SRK85 View Post
320D would be nice but turbo it please, I mean look the A4 gets at least 200hp with a 2.0 litre engine. Also the Saab 9-3 gets at least 200hp I mean hell even the TSX gets at least 200hp from its 4 cylinder. BMW needs to coming up with better technology for their smaller engine.
I have never understood the mass appeal to BMW's. Yeah, they're awesome looking cars (for the most part), but if you're a horsepower junky or someone who wants a car for something other than a status symbol they don't really compete well.
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Old 09-10-2008, 03:52 AM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by SRK85 View Post
320D would be nice but turbo it please, I mean look the A4 gets at least 200hp with a 2.0 litre engine. Also the Saab 9-3 gets at least 200hp I mean hell even the TSX gets at least 200hp from its 4 cylinder. BMW needs to coming up with better technology for their smaller engine.
Diesels are virtually always turbo but it's not about HP but torque. The rev band is much narrower but the tq will make up for that. It's the overall performance numbers that matter. BMW has the technology but like all the other makers their cars have put on too much size/weight.
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Old 09-10-2008, 04:30 AM
  #145  
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^ The latest BMW diesel engines (and even diesel engines from other manufacturers) easily compete in specific power output compared to their gas equivelants. For example look at the 123d making 204 horses from 2 liters. Plus all that torque. 295lb/ft. There is also a 3 liter 6 cyl diesel engine in the 330d making 231 HP @ 4000 rpm and 500Nm of torque starting at 1750 rpm. That car does the 0-62.5mph in 6.7 seconds per BMW, which means 6 secs flat had C+D tested it for the 60mph run.

Modern diesel engines have come a long way in specific power output.
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Old 09-10-2008, 11:59 AM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by 2000TaffetaTL View Post
I have never understood the mass appeal to BMW's. Yeah, they're awesome looking cars (for the most part), but if you're a horsepower junky or someone who wants a car for something other than a status symbol they don't really compete well.
BMW was never about HP. It's about the best combination of sport and comfort - F/R balance, great handling, best combination of sport and ride quality. The yuppies made it a luxury car.

HP junkies can spend money on a Mustang.
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Old 09-10-2008, 10:42 PM
  #147  
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eh go up to the 2.5. it's only 1 or 2 grand more. i can understand the jump to a 135 or M1. but 4 cylinder in a BMW
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Old 09-11-2008, 03:54 AM
  #148  
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Originally Posted by stright-(paint)balling View Post
eh go up to the 2.5. it's only 1 or 2 grand more. i can understand the jump to a 135 or M1. but 4 cylinder in a BMW
BMW has some really high quality 4 cyl. engines. You wont be disappointed.
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Old 09-12-2008, 03:19 PM
  #149  
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Business Week reported that BMW is developing the inline4 twinturbo, which will produce more power than the NA inline 6. I'm not surprised. This will be a great engine. Hopefully coming to America.
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Old 09-12-2008, 04:48 PM
  #150  
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I don't mind 4 cyl.

As long as the car has nice design and nice features, then HP doesn't mean much to me.
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Old 09-12-2008, 05:10 PM
  #151  
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Originally Posted by TMQ View Post
Business Week reported that BMW is developing the inline4 twinturbo, which will produce more power than the NA inline 6. I'm not surprised. This will be a great engine. Hopefully coming to America.
Twin turbo?!?!?
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Old 09-12-2008, 06:00 PM
  #152  
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well, turbo for sure, but given the twin turbo technology available across the board at BMW for the inline6, V8, the 123d twin turbo diesel, and the 1.6L I4 in the MINI, it's natural to assume that it will come to the gasoline I4. One turbo just can't eliminate all that lag.

http://www.bimmerfile.com/2008/09/10...ment/#more-646
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Old 09-12-2008, 07:10 PM
  #153  
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Originally Posted by stright-(paint)balling View Post
eh go up to the 2.5. it's only 1 or 2 grand more. i can understand the jump to a 135 or M1. but 4 cylinder in a BMW
There is no 2.5L anymore since 2006. the I6 N52 is a 3.0 and that's the smallest engine you can get in a BMW in north america.
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Old 09-12-2008, 07:20 PM
  #154  
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being that the 230hp 3.0L N52 is the smallest engine they've been offering since MY 07, I'd say they definitely have some room to move downmarket while still "saving face" with north american customers. It's probably time they offered a boosted 2.0L with all the latest tech...DI, variable flow turbo, etc.

Audi's been doing turbo I4's for years and they're still considered a luxury brand aren't they? The idea that 4 cylinder BMW's are taboo is asinine...the market wants fuel efficient cars even in the lower and mid level echelons of luxury, and the N52 is not even close to being a fuel stingy engine.
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Old 09-13-2008, 03:37 AM
  #155  
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Putting 4 cylinders in the 1-series would be the right decision at this point, IMO.

I would say Mini's been loved by the niche segment. The 1-series with 4 cylinders would more likely be attracted by one of the major car buyer segments.
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Old 09-13-2008, 03:56 AM
  #156  
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I don't think I would buy a 4 cylinder bimmer but I know it will sell good. I prefer the 335i
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Old 09-13-2008, 07:42 PM
  #157  
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I'd buy a compact sized Bimmer coupe with a 4 cylinder in it. It must be very fun to drive...

The current 1-series are friggin overpriced for that size. I don't care how fast the car can go. And it is the exact reason why it's not selling well.
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Old 09-14-2008, 04:23 AM
  #158  
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I'd buy a 170-180hp I4 1-series...
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Old 09-14-2008, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Brandon24pdx View Post
I'd buy a 170-180hp I4 1-series...
But would you pay 1-2K more for a 125?
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Old 09-14-2008, 12:45 PM
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^ Doesn't BMW have 135 and 128 right now? Both with 6 cylinders

The article on top said they are coming out with 4 cylinder to cut the pricing point (significant amount, I'm assuming) since it's the main reason why 1-series have not been selling well in the States.
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