Acura: ZDX News
10-13-2009, 10:42 PM
#1361
Three Wheelin'
How can the ZDX possibly be cheaper to make than the MDX? If it is possible, it is probably because of something called "economy of scale." According to Wikipedia, "Economies of scale, in microeconomics, are the cost advantages that a business obtains due to expansion." In other words, the more units you make of an item, the cheaper each unit is to make. And the more parts of a unit you make, the cheaper it costs to manufacture those parts. That is the reason why Honda is so devoted to platform engineering, because it leads to economy of scale. Since many parts of the ZDX were already created for the MDX, it saves on R&D. It also saves on manufacturing costs of the ZDX. The higher cost of the ZDX versus the MDX helps to cover some unique features of the ZDX such as the glass roof and the keyless entry. Over time, though, even those features will become cheaper. Therefore, the ZDX might become cheaper to produce than the MDX was at least when the MDX started its current generation. Regardless, Honda should make a tidy little profit on the ZDX and get some free publicity for finally selling a vehicle that doesn't resemble a Honda.
10-14-2009, 01:07 AM
#1362
fap fap fap
10-14-2009, 07:46 AM
#1363
Three Wheelin'
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Resort to petty insults when you don’t have a legitimate response. Nice. I have followed through with every legitimate point you have tried to make. If you don’t understand something that I say, then why don’t you ask me instead of just being your usual self?
This is your opinion then. It has no meaning or value to me. Just stop trying to spread it as fact.
You know this, how?
Again, you know this how? Acura never said their buyers are the most affluent. Neither has Lexus. Why? Because they aren’t. So what’s your point?
Who says they aren’t?
You are unfortunate if you don’t understand why it would be cheaper to develop the ZDX as is versus building it from the ground up. When you use parts that have already been developed for another car and you want to use it on your new car, that is R&D money saved. I am baffled that you cannot grasp such a simple concept.
Again, if denial is your only way out, then so be it.
.
This is your opinion then. It has no meaning or value to me. Just stop trying to spread it as fact.
You know this, how?
Again, you know this how? Acura never said their buyers are the most affluent. Neither has Lexus. Why? Because they aren’t. So what’s your point?
Who says they aren’t?
You are unfortunate if you don’t understand why it would be cheaper to develop the ZDX as is versus building it from the ground up. When you use parts that have already been developed for another car and you want to use it on your new car, that is R&D money saved. I am baffled that you cannot grasp such a simple concept.
Again, if denial is your only way out, then so be it.
.
Aside from that go to any Acura blog, forum, or even here, and most of Acura's fans are disappointed in the development of the ZDX and are not interested in buying it. Most of them just want a coupe or better looking sedans to buy. Yes the CL sold dismally but the Integra/RSX sold very well and now that the original buyers of Integra/RSX are more affluent they're looking for a vehicle to move up into. Most of them are buying the Infiniti G Coupe.
The ZDX's target audience couples who want a SUV is a slim market and it's one that Acura doesn't even know if it'll be worthwhile. Entry level luxury coupes is a relatively large market thats still doing well even in the recession.
But aside from that here's my main point. Look at X6 sales from last month:
271 units. Look at the percentage drop year over year: -47% (significantly higher than the drop of the X3 and X5). Does this look like a worthwhile growing market to you? Do you think that Acura will even achieve their 500 unit a month forecast if the X6 can't even sell 300 units?
10-14-2009, 12:06 PM
#1365
The news here is a good read though.
10-14-2009, 04:52 PM
#1366
Three Wheelin'
It looks like Acura has many options for a coupe:
So Acura could either develop another CL-type coupe based on the same global mid-sized platform as every Acura sedan. If they do that, people will complain that it is FWD.
Or they could give said coupe SH-AWD. If they do that people will complain that it is heavy.
Or they could bring back an RSX-type coupe based on the same global compact platform as the Civic or the old RSX. But then people will complain that it is too downscale for a brand that is attempting to be luxury.
Or they could create an all-new platform for a coupe. But then people will complain that it is too expensive for an Acura.
Or Acura could develop said coupe based on a new platform and lose money on each unit. But that makes little business sense, especially in an economic downturn.
Or they could create an odd vehicle based on the top-selling MDX. Even if the market for such a vehicle is small, it will still be larger than the market for an Acura coupe. The ZDX will increase utilization of their Canadian plant and increase economies of scale for the Honda Global Truck Platform. And as an added bonus, the ZDX brings attention to the Acura brand for finally making a vehicle that looks different.
So Acura could either develop another CL-type coupe based on the same global mid-sized platform as every Acura sedan. If they do that, people will complain that it is FWD.
Or they could give said coupe SH-AWD. If they do that people will complain that it is heavy.
Or they could bring back an RSX-type coupe based on the same global compact platform as the Civic or the old RSX. But then people will complain that it is too downscale for a brand that is attempting to be luxury.
Or they could create an all-new platform for a coupe. But then people will complain that it is too expensive for an Acura.
Or Acura could develop said coupe based on a new platform and lose money on each unit. But that makes little business sense, especially in an economic downturn.
Or they could create an odd vehicle based on the top-selling MDX. Even if the market for such a vehicle is small, it will still be larger than the market for an Acura coupe. The ZDX will increase utilization of their Canadian plant and increase economies of scale for the Honda Global Truck Platform. And as an added bonus, the ZDX brings attention to the Acura brand for finally making a vehicle that looks different.
10-14-2009, 05:36 PM
#1367
Senior Moderator
When I pulled in I was like WTF is that????? I parked, then walked past it and saw RDX on the back. I came around to the front, cringed, then went inside.
Last edited by West6MT; 10-14-2009 at 05:39 PM.
10-14-2009, 08:59 PM
#1370
Senior Moderator
I
Or they could create an all-new platform for a coupe. But then people will complain that it is too expensive for an Acura.
Or Acura could develop said coupe based on a new platform and lose money on each unit. But that makes little business sense, especially in an economic downturn.
Or they could create an all-new platform for a coupe. But then people will complain that it is too expensive for an Acura.
Or Acura could develop said coupe based on a new platform and lose money on each unit. But that makes little business sense, especially in an economic downturn.
Interesting.
Others can somehow do it yet you make it sound impossible for Acura. Are they not selling to the same people?
10-14-2009, 09:03 PM
#1371
I'm the Firestarter
I still wouldn't buy one.
10-14-2009, 09:13 PM
#1372
Honda Fanboy
Well VTEC Racer you've again succeeded in saying absolutely nothing meaningful. Where are your links to defend yourself? You've done nothing to prove yourself right, so why should I believe what you're saying?
Defend myself for what? Nothing that I have said can really be debated, it's mostly well known information. Let me know what you want links for and I will gladly supply them. If something is a prediction on my part, I will usually say so and justify my reason for why I have come to such a conclusion/prediction about something. Again, feel free to ask me anything.
Aside from that go to any Acura blog, forum, or even here, and most of Acura's fans are disappointed in the development of the ZDX and are not interested in buying it.
Most people on an Acura forum are driving a car that didn't cost more than $40k brand-new. With enthusiasts representing 10% of the buying public, that means that roughly 50 of the estimated 500 ZDX's that Acura expects to sell per month will be sold to an enthusiast. Of course your not going to see a huge rush of people here jumping on it. Not to mention that it will have a starting price that is over $10,000 more than what the average Acura owner here paid for their Acura. It's a different class of car for a different class of people.
But aside from that here's my main point. Look at X6 sales from last month:
271 units. Look at the percentage drop year over year: -47% (significantly higher than the drop of the X3 and X5). Does this look like a worthwhile growing market to you? Do you think that Acura will even achieve their 500 unit a month forecast if the X6 can't even sell 300 units?
The X6 has a starting price of about $12,000 more than a ZDX. An X6 loaded up like a fully-loaded ZDX costs over $70k. Even if you could add $10,000 worth of options on the ZDX, your still probably looking at a $16,000 difference in price. That alone will, IMO, be enough for the ZDX to sway potential X6 buyers who see the two cars as competitive with each other. I don't think Acura will have an issue selling 500 per month. Infiniti sells more than that with the FX and it isn't nearly as luxurious and its starting price is right around that of the expected starting price of the ZDX.
Defend myself for what? Nothing that I have said can really be debated, it's mostly well known information. Let me know what you want links for and I will gladly supply them. If something is a prediction on my part, I will usually say so and justify my reason for why I have come to such a conclusion/prediction about something. Again, feel free to ask me anything.
Aside from that go to any Acura blog, forum, or even here, and most of Acura's fans are disappointed in the development of the ZDX and are not interested in buying it.
Most people on an Acura forum are driving a car that didn't cost more than $40k brand-new. With enthusiasts representing 10% of the buying public, that means that roughly 50 of the estimated 500 ZDX's that Acura expects to sell per month will be sold to an enthusiast. Of course your not going to see a huge rush of people here jumping on it. Not to mention that it will have a starting price that is over $10,000 more than what the average Acura owner here paid for their Acura. It's a different class of car for a different class of people.
But aside from that here's my main point. Look at X6 sales from last month:
271 units. Look at the percentage drop year over year: -47% (significantly higher than the drop of the X3 and X5). Does this look like a worthwhile growing market to you? Do you think that Acura will even achieve their 500 unit a month forecast if the X6 can't even sell 300 units?
The X6 has a starting price of about $12,000 more than a ZDX. An X6 loaded up like a fully-loaded ZDX costs over $70k. Even if you could add $10,000 worth of options on the ZDX, your still probably looking at a $16,000 difference in price. That alone will, IMO, be enough for the ZDX to sway potential X6 buyers who see the two cars as competitive with each other. I don't think Acura will have an issue selling 500 per month. Infiniti sells more than that with the FX and it isn't nearly as luxurious and its starting price is right around that of the expected starting price of the ZDX.
10-14-2009, 11:47 PM
#1373
Three Wheelin'
The Lexus SC is a money loser for Toyota, which is why the product cycle for that model is so long. It might take a decade just to break even on that car. The other Lexus coupe/convertible is the new IS, which shares platform, name, etc. with a sedan. The IS family also shares a platform with the GS, which brings us back to economy of scale.
Lexus is part of Toyota, now the biggest car manufaturer in the world. Toyota has ample capital to spend on RWD or any other kind of car they want. Infiniti simply a brand name that Nissan owns. Nissan is itself plurality owned by Renault. When Renault bought the plurality of Nissan, they injected enough capital into Nissan to be able to afford an all new platform. Honda, on the other hand is: 1) independent (unlike Nissan), 2) relatively small (unlike Toyota), 3) makes a variety of non-car products (unlike both Nissan and Toyota). Is it really worth it for Honda to create an all new RWD platform so you can have a really cool coupe? Is the coupe market really expanding? Could that money be better spend on fuel-cell technology or some other product that is not a car?
And one more thing. Lexus drivers generally don't care if the car is RWD or FWD. Until recently, the ES was the most popular Lexus sedan. That car is FWD. The RX is still their most popular SUV and although it has optional AWD, FWD is the default. In fact, I would argue that Acura drivers don't care either. The Legend was FWD and the TL, which has sold well from 1999 until the current recession has always been FWD.
So is it really worth it to produce a new RWD platform for a coupe right now? I'm assuming that Acura, being essentially a marketing organization, has done some market research. And I'm guessing that the market research does not support either a coupe or an all-out NSX replacement at this time. I doubt if the ZDX will ever be a big seller (in fact 6,000 units a year sounds high to me), but it is probably adequate low-hanging fruit at this time.
10-15-2009, 07:12 AM
#1374
Senior Moderator
I thought it was obvious, but I'm suggesting Acura develop a RWD platform to be shared amongst sedan and coupe etc.... Although we now know that isn't happening. And I could care less about a coupe. I'd a like a 1st gen like RWD sedan with a few more horsepower.
Whatever the reason's were for deciding against it, point remains. others can do it so don't make it seem like its impossible for Acura. After all, up until recently they had planned on doing so and simply changed their mind.
Whatever the reason's were for deciding against it, point remains. others can do it so don't make it seem like its impossible for Acura. After all, up until recently they had planned on doing so and simply changed their mind.
Last edited by dom; 10-15-2009 at 07:16 AM.
10-15-2009, 08:40 AM
#1375
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This horse has been beaten to death, but it's clear that the current economic situation necessitated a change in Honda's plans. Honda may have projected that the new platform project would have been profitable for annual vehicle sales of near 15 million in the US, but not for sales of 10 million, which is the current rate. The economic malaise will likely continue for at least several more years, at least in the US, so Honda will probably not revive this project for quite a while.
Before anyone cites Hyundai as an example, remember that the Genesis was released in early 2008 - before the financial meltdown. The platform was obviously completed some time before that, so the current economic situation did not have an effect on the development of their RWD platform.
Before anyone cites Hyundai as an example, remember that the Genesis was released in early 2008 - before the financial meltdown. The platform was obviously completed some time before that, so the current economic situation did not have an effect on the development of their RWD platform.
Last edited by JD23; 10-15-2009 at 08:43 AM.
10-15-2009, 09:26 AM
#1376
Senior Moderator
This horse has been beaten to death, but it's clear that the current economic situation necessitated a change in Honda's plans. Honda may have projected that the new platform project would have been profitable for annual vehicle sales of near 15 million in the US, but not for sales of 10 million, which is the current rate. The economic malaise will likely continue for at least several more years, at least in the US, so Honda will probably not revive this project for quite a while.
Before anyone cites Hyundai as an example, remember that the Genesis was released in early 2008 - before the financial meltdown. The platform was obviously completed some time before that, so the current economic situation did not have an effect on the development of their RWD platform.
Before anyone cites Hyundai as an example, remember that the Genesis was released in early 2008 - before the financial meltdown. The platform was obviously completed some time before that, so the current economic situation did not have an effect on the development of their RWD platform.
That aside, the RWD platform should have IMO been out years ago, well before the economic meltdown.
10-15-2009, 10:27 AM
#1377
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Well VTEC Racer you're doing a good job evading facts and continuing to spew your falsifiable opinion.
This isn't just about auto enthusiast. The public anticipation of the ZDX is lukewarm at best. There are consumer sites such as Acura's social networks where you can see consumer reaction. Acutally let me go to Acura's facebook and show you what some of the people there are saying:
Nearly all of BMW's products cost more than Acura's products and nearly all of BMW's products outsell Acura's products in a huge way (save for the X5). So what makes you think Acura's price advantage is gonna help the ZDX outsell the X6, if it doesn't help the TSX, RDX, TL, or RL?
This isn't just about auto enthusiast. The public anticipation of the ZDX is lukewarm at best. There are consumer sites such as Acura's social networks where you can see consumer reaction. Acutally let me go to Acura's facebook and show you what some of the people there are saying:
from facebook
Steven Grant
"Acura should've built a coupe instead of this SUV. Acura NEEDS a coupe not another SUV. What a waste of money!!!! Sales will be low and the car will likely be canceled in within it's first cycle. Infiniti is kicking Acura ass with the G coupe. Acura/Honda should not let any American management for the company dictate what products that should be made or designed. Audi has become more appealing to consumers now that Acura has taken a turn for the worse. Acura needs a coupe and the NSX to be put in production. Acura has lost it's older consumers and not bringing in any youth. Just sad!"
Thong Vang
"I agree that this is not the car the brand needs. As its buyers get older, Acura needs to do something to keep bringing in the younger buyers to protect the brand's long term growth. While I am not here saying that they need to build integras again, i do believe that a large shake up of the model lineup needs to be done. When most people think of luxury cars, Acura is far down their list. a big reason? No RWD cars. Now, Audi has no RWD, but they have the benefit of being "german" and having quattro available on all of their cars. Also, their interiors are gorgeous. The RL has to get better and be that $55k to $60k sedan that MAKES people want to own an Acura. I'm just not sure that the parent company has the cajones to make that kind of car. What the brand really needs is a great flagship sedan, a redo of the 4th TL, and yes, the rebirth of the NSX. while it sold in limited numbers, that car gave Acura a halo, something to be known by, and eye candy for the showroom. It has no "eye candy" now, no true identity. Acura's dont have the polish of lexus cars, the power or handling of infiniti's or the name recognition of the germans. They need to get back to what they do well - engineer. a great RL can do alot for the brand."
Steven Grant
"Acura should've built a coupe instead of this SUV. Acura NEEDS a coupe not another SUV. What a waste of money!!!! Sales will be low and the car will likely be canceled in within it's first cycle. Infiniti is kicking Acura ass with the G coupe. Acura/Honda should not let any American management for the company dictate what products that should be made or designed. Audi has become more appealing to consumers now that Acura has taken a turn for the worse. Acura needs a coupe and the NSX to be put in production. Acura has lost it's older consumers and not bringing in any youth. Just sad!"
Thong Vang
"I agree that this is not the car the brand needs. As its buyers get older, Acura needs to do something to keep bringing in the younger buyers to protect the brand's long term growth. While I am not here saying that they need to build integras again, i do believe that a large shake up of the model lineup needs to be done. When most people think of luxury cars, Acura is far down their list. a big reason? No RWD cars. Now, Audi has no RWD, but they have the benefit of being "german" and having quattro available on all of their cars. Also, their interiors are gorgeous. The RL has to get better and be that $55k to $60k sedan that MAKES people want to own an Acura. I'm just not sure that the parent company has the cajones to make that kind of car. What the brand really needs is a great flagship sedan, a redo of the 4th TL, and yes, the rebirth of the NSX. while it sold in limited numbers, that car gave Acura a halo, something to be known by, and eye candy for the showroom. It has no "eye candy" now, no true identity. Acura's dont have the polish of lexus cars, the power or handling of infiniti's or the name recognition of the germans. They need to get back to what they do well - engineer. a great RL can do alot for the brand."
10-15-2009, 10:32 AM
#1378
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RWD has definitely been cancelled. Acura could have had hope being the Japanese Audi, but their designs are far too polarizing, and they still lack a fullsize sedan.
10-15-2009, 10:50 AM
#1379
I'm the Firestarter
Honda, on the other hand is: 1) independent (unlike Nissan), 2) relatively small (unlike Toyota), 3) makes a variety of non-car products (unlike both Nissan and Toyota). Is it really worth it for Honda to create an all new RWD platform so you can have a really cool coupe? Is the coupe market really expanding? Could that money be better spend on fuel-cell technology or some other product that is not a car?
It's probably a conservative and wise business move, but not what we like to hear as consumers who are looking for their next car.
10-15-2009, 12:57 PM
#1380
Honda Fanboy
Well VTEC Racer you're doing a good job evading facts and continuing to spew your falsifiable opinion.
I've asked several times to ask me to verify anything that I say which you don't believe. Be specific. You're doing nothing but just saying that what I am saying is false. Again, ASK ME ANYTHING. If you speak a second language, I might even be able to translate it for you.
This isn't just about auto enthusiast. The public anticipation of the ZDX is lukewarm at best. There are consumer sites such as Acura's social networks where you can see consumer reaction. Acutally let me go to Acura's facebook and show you what some of the people there are saying:
Riiiiiight. And those people on Acura's Facebook page are most likely enthusiasts or regular consumers? I've already explained my thought about enthusiasts and the ZDX. No need to do it again when all you need to do is read.
It's one thing to post only negative posts that people have made, but you are completely ignoring what almost all the magazines are saying about this car. And why wouldn't you? They go completely against what your trying to say about this car.
Nearly all of BMW's products cost more than Acura's products and nearly all of BMW's products outsell Acura's products in a huge way (save for the X5). So what makes you think Acura's price advantage is gonna help the ZDX outsell the X6, if it doesn't help the TSX, RDX, TL, or RL?
If you actually read my post, you wouldn't be asking this right now.
I'm not avoiding your questions, all I am asking you to do is just READ because the answers are already there.
I've asked several times to ask me to verify anything that I say which you don't believe. Be specific. You're doing nothing but just saying that what I am saying is false. Again, ASK ME ANYTHING. If you speak a second language, I might even be able to translate it for you.
This isn't just about auto enthusiast. The public anticipation of the ZDX is lukewarm at best. There are consumer sites such as Acura's social networks where you can see consumer reaction. Acutally let me go to Acura's facebook and show you what some of the people there are saying:
Riiiiiight. And those people on Acura's Facebook page are most likely enthusiasts or regular consumers? I've already explained my thought about enthusiasts and the ZDX. No need to do it again when all you need to do is read.
It's one thing to post only negative posts that people have made, but you are completely ignoring what almost all the magazines are saying about this car. And why wouldn't you? They go completely against what your trying to say about this car.
Nearly all of BMW's products cost more than Acura's products and nearly all of BMW's products outsell Acura's products in a huge way (save for the X5). So what makes you think Acura's price advantage is gonna help the ZDX outsell the X6, if it doesn't help the TSX, RDX, TL, or RL?
If you actually read my post, you wouldn't be asking this right now.
I'm not avoiding your questions, all I am asking you to do is just READ because the answers are already there.
10-15-2009, 01:30 PM
#1382
On the second point, I am conflicted. A large part of me would have liked to see that years ago as you said. BUT, part of the Honda ethos, has always been to 'do more with less.' Or in other words, to equal the others performance envelope with their FWD designs. Most would agree that they have achieved this goal through the years, often bettering supposedly "superior" powertrains in track testing. Styling aside, the current product still seems to do this. IOW, it usually takes a sport package or optional engine to outperform the comparable Honda/Acura model.
10-15-2009, 02:38 PM
#1383
Go Big Blue!
Maybe my memory is crap, but I don't really recall anyone at Honda saying there was a RWD platform under development. It was assumed by many that this is what they were talking about, with the Tier 1 initiative but I don't remember it being mentioned specifically. Or did they only acknowledge it (in a backhanded way) when they canceled it?
They have a great AWD system and a great reputation for quality. Improve on the SHAWD even more to get more power in the back. Roll out a next gen engine and tranny to improve MPG, get the weight distribution more balanced, and improve the interiors a bit more. That would offer something for almost everyone and should help the brand image without scraping the whole thing and developing FR platforms with 500bhp V8 engines
Sorry, that's not a poplular gear-head view, but I think the foundation is there. It seems like more a failure of execution. I'd also like to see how this new ZDX looks in real life and (more importantly) how it performs, before I write off this next step forward as a failure.
Last edited by SpicyMikey; 10-15-2009 at 02:40 PM.
10-15-2009, 03:03 PM
#1384
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The X6 has a starting price of about $12,000 more than a ZDX. An X6 loaded up like a fully-loaded ZDX costs over $70k. Even if you could add $10,000 worth of options on the ZDX, your still probably looking at a $16,000 difference in price. That alone will, IMO, be enough for the ZDX to sway potential X6 buyers who see the two cars as competitive with each other. I don't think Acura will have an issue selling 500 per month. Infiniti sells more than that with the FX and it isn't nearly as luxurious and its starting price is right around that of the expected starting price of the ZDX.
Nearly all of BMW's products cost more than Acura's products and nearly all of BMW's products outsell Acura's products in a huge way (save for the X5). So what makes you think Acura's price advantage is gonna help the ZDX outsell the X6, if it doesn't help the TSX, RDX, TL, or RL?
10-15-2009, 03:09 PM
#1385
Senior Moderator
Lost in all of this X6 vs. ZDX comparo is the fact that I firmly believe the Infiniti FX series is the kingpin of the "SPORTY" CUV segment...
Not the two mega-uglies that the ZDX discussion seems to be swayed to. Acura should aspire to be better than the Infiniti FX than the X6 which is overpriced
-on-wheels anyhow.
I stand firmly by my belief that without the BMW badge, the second coming of the Aztek would never have sold. Somewhere, BMW execs are laughing their heads off on the prank they unleashed to the world...
Not the two mega-uglies that the ZDX discussion seems to be swayed to. Acura should aspire to be better than the Infiniti FX than the X6 which is overpriced
-on-wheels anyhow. I stand firmly by my belief that without the BMW badge, the second coming of the Aztek would never have sold. Somewhere, BMW execs are laughing their heads off on the prank they unleashed to the world...
10-15-2009, 03:17 PM
#1386
I'm the Firestarter
10-15-2009, 03:19 PM
#1387
Senior Moderator
10-15-2009, 03:20 PM
#1388
Senior Moderator
But, seriously...what's the difference between CUV and SAV? 
10-15-2009, 03:41 PM
#1391
Honda Fanboy
Of course BMW 3 and 5 series will outsell the Acura counterpart. The BMW's offer countless models and endless configurations. It's an undisputed fact. Answering your question, why I think the ZDX will outsell the X6... Taking a look at numbers, the RDX is cheaper than the X3 and the MDX is cheaper than the X5.
Starting MSRP
BMW X3 Series-$38,750 Acura RDX-$32,520* (was $34,520 for 2009 MY)
BMW X5 Series-$47,500 Acura MDX-$40,990
YTD Sales 2009
BMW X3 Series-5,098 Acura RDX-6,975
BMW X5 Series-18,650 Acura MDX 20,980
Utilizing the data above, you can see for yourself that the less expensive (starting MSRP) Acura SUV's are easily outselling their BMW counterparts. Also to keep in mind that the difference in MSRP is significantly smaller than what the expected difference in MSRP between the ZDX and X6 will be.
Another thing to keep in mind is that not all "DINK's" who like the X6 may be able to afford one or be willing to spend that kind of coin for it. With an expected $2k-$16k difference in price (depending on configuration) between the ZDX and X6, it can be a large enough gap to sway those potential X6 buyers to the ZDX. A $16k price difference is the difference of over $320 in the monthly payment over a 60 month financing term. I can only imagine that most people, especially in this environment, would find a better use for that $16,000. At least the smart ones would.
Starting MSRP
BMW X3 Series-$38,750 Acura RDX-$32,520* (was $34,520 for 2009 MY)
BMW X5 Series-$47,500 Acura MDX-$40,990
YTD Sales 2009
BMW X3 Series-5,098 Acura RDX-6,975
BMW X5 Series-18,650 Acura MDX 20,980
Utilizing the data above, you can see for yourself that the less expensive (starting MSRP) Acura SUV's are easily outselling their BMW counterparts. Also to keep in mind that the difference in MSRP is significantly smaller than what the expected difference in MSRP between the ZDX and X6 will be.
Another thing to keep in mind is that not all "DINK's" who like the X6 may be able to afford one or be willing to spend that kind of coin for it. With an expected $2k-$16k difference in price (depending on configuration) between the ZDX and X6, it can be a large enough gap to sway those potential X6 buyers to the ZDX. A $16k price difference is the difference of over $320 in the monthly payment over a 60 month financing term. I can only imagine that most people, especially in this environment, would find a better use for that $16,000. At least the smart ones would.
Last edited by VTEC Racer; 10-15-2009 at 03:44 PM.
10-15-2009, 03:43 PM
#1392
10-15-2009, 04:08 PM
#1393
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Of course BMW 3 and 5 series will outsell the Acura counterpart. The BMW's offer countless models and endless configurations. It's an undisputed fact. Answering your question, why I think the ZDX will outsell the X6... Taking a look at numbers, the RDX is cheaper than the X3 and the MDX is cheaper than the X5.
Starting MSRP
BMW X3 Series-$38,750 Acura RDX-$32,520* (was $34,520 for 2009 MY)
BMW X5 Series-$47,500 Acura MDX-$40,990
YTD Sales 2009
BMW X3 Series-5,098 Acura RDX-6,975
BMW X5 Series-18,650 Acura MDX 20,980
Utilizing the data above, you can see for yourself that the less expensive (starting MSRP) Acura SUV's are easily outselling their BMW counterparts. Also to keep in mind that the difference in MSRP is significantly smaller than what the expected difference in MSRP between the ZDX and X6 will be.
Another thing to keep in mind is that not all "DINK's" who like the X6 may be able to afford one or be willing to spend that kind of coin for it. With an expected $2k-$16k difference in price (depending on configuration) between the ZDX and X6, it can be a large enough gap to sway those potential X6 buyers to the ZDX. A $16k price difference is the difference of over $320 in the monthly payment over a 60 month financing term. I can only imagine that most people, especially in this environment, would find a better use for that $16,000. At least the smart ones would.
Starting MSRP
BMW X3 Series-$38,750 Acura RDX-$32,520* (was $34,520 for 2009 MY)
BMW X5 Series-$47,500 Acura MDX-$40,990
YTD Sales 2009
BMW X3 Series-5,098 Acura RDX-6,975
BMW X5 Series-18,650 Acura MDX 20,980
Utilizing the data above, you can see for yourself that the less expensive (starting MSRP) Acura SUV's are easily outselling their BMW counterparts. Also to keep in mind that the difference in MSRP is significantly smaller than what the expected difference in MSRP between the ZDX and X6 will be.
Another thing to keep in mind is that not all "DINK's" who like the X6 may be able to afford one or be willing to spend that kind of coin for it. With an expected $2k-$16k difference in price (depending on configuration) between the ZDX and X6, it can be a large enough gap to sway those potential X6 buyers to the ZDX. A $16k price difference is the difference of over $320 in the monthly payment over a 60 month financing term. I can only imagine that most people, especially in this environment, would find a better use for that $16,000. At least the smart ones would.
For last month the X3 outsold the RDX by 300 units but whatever. The X6 only sold 251 units last month which is somewhat alarming since it's the only vehicle in the nitch Acura wants to enter into.
Anyway most "DINKS" don't finance, they lease (which is how BMW has had their sales success since the majority of their buyers lease). Leasing a BMW is usually comparable in price to leasing an Acura even when the BMW costs $5-10K more. Aside from that shouldn't research have told Acura that DINKS don't buy CUVs (see:RDX). Most X6s I see are driven by wealthy soccer moms. With the ZDX lacking an adequate back seat, it'll be a harder sell for trendy wealthy families.
I'm with Yumchah that they should have gone after the FX so that the market for the vehicle wouldn't have been so narrow.
Last edited by (Cj); 10-15-2009 at 04:13 PM.
10-15-2009, 04:14 PM
#1394
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10-15-2009, 04:15 PM
#1395
Senior Moderator
10-15-2009, 04:24 PM
#1396
10-15-2009, 04:24 PM
#1397
Honda Fanboy
Finally you're providing real data.
I've been providing real data. You've just finally learned how to read.
For last month the X3 outsold the RDX by 300 units but whatever. The X6 only sold 251 units last month which is somewhat alarming since it's the only vehicle in the nitch Acura wants to enter into.
Finally you acknowledge that the X6 is in a class of its own. The X6 does sell in low numbers. However, being the only car in its class, it doesn't change the fact that the X6 starts from $56,000. That fact alone keeps it out of reach from many consumers and the sensible ones won't be willing to spend the money on it.
Anyway most "DINKS" don't finance, they lease.
Link?
Aside from that shouldn't research have told Acura that DINKS don't buy CUVs (see:RDX). Most X6s I see are driven by wealthy soccer moms. With the ZDX lacking an adequate back seat, it'll be a harder sell for trendy wealthy families.
I don't think Acura is worried about selling to a consumer that they are clearly not targeting. Every press release and magazine article clearly states that the ZDX is not targeted towards families.
I've been providing real data. You've just finally learned how to read.
For last month the X3 outsold the RDX by 300 units but whatever. The X6 only sold 251 units last month which is somewhat alarming since it's the only vehicle in the nitch Acura wants to enter into.
Finally you acknowledge that the X6 is in a class of its own. The X6 does sell in low numbers. However, being the only car in its class, it doesn't change the fact that the X6 starts from $56,000. That fact alone keeps it out of reach from many consumers and the sensible ones won't be willing to spend the money on it.
Anyway most "DINKS" don't finance, they lease.
Link?
Aside from that shouldn't research have told Acura that DINKS don't buy CUVs (see:RDX). Most X6s I see are driven by wealthy soccer moms. With the ZDX lacking an adequate back seat, it'll be a harder sell for trendy wealthy families.
I don't think Acura is worried about selling to a consumer that they are clearly not targeting. Every press release and magazine article clearly states that the ZDX is not targeted towards families.
10-15-2009, 05:32 PM
#1398
Three Wheelin'
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No. I said that the X6 is in it's own niche not it's own class. Both the X6 and ZDX are midsized luxury sport crossovers. They are only part of a niche within that class.
Infiniti said the same thing about the EX and then when it came out, the largest buying group became families and those families were demanding a bigger back seat, hence the 2010 EX came out with guess what... a bigger backseat. CUVs are for families no matter what marketing material says.
Infiniti said the same thing about the EX and then when it came out, the largest buying group became families and those families were demanding a bigger back seat, hence the 2010 EX came out with guess what... a bigger backseat. CUVs are for families no matter what marketing material says.
10-15-2009, 05:44 PM
#1399
Senior Moderator
ZDX Auto Show Debut at Orange County Auto Show Oct 15-18
http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=857639
TORRANCE, Calif. - 10/15/2009
The all-new 2010 Acura ZDX will make its auto show debut as a production model on October 15, 2009, at the Orange County Auto Show. Arriving this winter at Acura dealerships, the ZDX features dramatic styling, outstanding performance and the latest in advanced technology. The segment bending ZDX has stunning coupe-like styling with the added benefit of a commanding presence and flexible utility.
Designed, developed and manufactured entirely in North America, the ZDX is the first vehicle to be styled from start to finish in the new, dedicated Acura Design Studio in Torrance, California. Staying true to the original sketch from Acura's first female designer, Michelle Christensen, the ZDX features sensuous curves, deeply sculpted shoulders and strong character lines.
The design highlights of the 2010 Acura ZDX include:
All-glass panoramic roof stretches from the windshield to the tailgate – making it the longest continuous glass surface found in the automotive industry
Rear door handles cleverly concealed within in the C-pillar to emphasize coupe-like styling
Ultra-luxurious interior features a standard hand-stitched leather dash, door panels and sculpted center console
The ZDX is powered by a 3.7-liter VTEC® V-6 that generates 300 horsepower and 270 lb-ft of torque. Standard on the ZDX is Acura's exclusive Super Handling All-Wheel Drive™ (SH-AWD®) system that provides outstanding handling as well as excellent all-season capability.
The ZDX will be on display at the Acura booth at the Orange County Auto Show from October 15-18, 2009.
The all-new 2010 Acura ZDX will make its auto show debut as a production model on October 15, 2009, at the Orange County Auto Show. Arriving this winter at Acura dealerships, the ZDX features dramatic styling, outstanding performance and the latest in advanced technology. The segment bending ZDX has stunning coupe-like styling with the added benefit of a commanding presence and flexible utility.
Designed, developed and manufactured entirely in North America, the ZDX is the first vehicle to be styled from start to finish in the new, dedicated Acura Design Studio in Torrance, California. Staying true to the original sketch from Acura's first female designer, Michelle Christensen, the ZDX features sensuous curves, deeply sculpted shoulders and strong character lines.
The design highlights of the 2010 Acura ZDX include:
All-glass panoramic roof stretches from the windshield to the tailgate – making it the longest continuous glass surface found in the automotive industry
Rear door handles cleverly concealed within in the C-pillar to emphasize coupe-like styling
Ultra-luxurious interior features a standard hand-stitched leather dash, door panels and sculpted center console
The ZDX is powered by a 3.7-liter VTEC® V-6 that generates 300 horsepower and 270 lb-ft of torque. Standard on the ZDX is Acura's exclusive Super Handling All-Wheel Drive™ (SH-AWD®) system that provides outstanding handling as well as excellent all-season capability.
The ZDX will be on display at the Acura booth at the Orange County Auto Show from October 15-18, 2009.
10-15-2009, 07:01 PM
#1400
Yeah, that is what I thought. IMO, unless it was another S2000ish car, they never intended to do a RWD car. SH-AWD is what the supercar would have had, and I could see this as the cornerstone of the brand, not RWD.