ClutchPerformer

Don't be too disappointed. The original post by SSH said that 235/45/17 was the STANDARD tire size. My guess is that the 18" wheels weren't *ready* to be put on any of these cars. If that's the case, they should have even beefier rubber. Can't wait to see what the wheel design/tire size is....

need4spd_RENAMED

They are loading them onto the truck to bring them back to HQ in Calif after a press ride and drive in Seatle WA. We were lucky enough to find the hotel on the last day, and some readers in Seattle got the shots!

VtecMW

They're probably designated for Acura "Ride and Drive" events at various locations around the country, as well as more press events.

Too bad the truck drivers don't use the boards. We'd never have a shortage of info!

riceburner503

From the pictures. Didnt it look like the front calipers were big, like 4 piston ones. Are they from acura or brembo?

provench

ssh - Great work mate

See guys ... I was not BS'ing on the "more to come" hints

This car is going to be a hot seller ...

EmuMessenger

Good question. I was also worried Acura would not do it the "right way" with four piston calipers all around and at least 18" wheels.

I am hoping the six speed cars were not HPT models.

It also seemed like the car with the black (Brembo) calipers only had them in the front.

provench

If I recall from my G35 salesman (hehe) there are two benefits ... speed to light up thus saving critical reaction time in braking as well as longevity of the light (less replacements vs. typical bulb design).

provench

I am looking like crazy, but we don't have a straight on angle ... but it LOOKS like the TL might have HID high beam as well as low beam - thoughts?

Jason

How can you guys tell those are Brembo brakes?

EmuMessenger

Just wishful thinking, I do not there is any specific way to tell.

99TL_RENAMED

Hi...

I've been lurking here for a long time. The information on this forum is great!

While we are all dazzled by the great looks of the new TL, I just want to point out two things:

If you look at the last image posted by SSH (IMG_wheel.jpg - close up of the steering wheel), you'll see that the two halves of the steering column (behind the turn signal stalk) are not aligned properly.

Also, to the left of the the driver's side temperature control, you'll see that the instrument cluster and the centre console are not aligned properly either (it's actually to the left of the driver's side centre vent).

I bought my 99TL brand new back in Oct 1998 and these are the exact same problems that I had with my car - misaligned interior panels, not to mention major rattles inside the car too.

While I already have most of these rattles corrected (over 10 dealer visits), it was a nuisance for me - why should I spend so much of my time helping Acura isolate and fix the rattles in my car, when those rattles should have been all corrected before the car leaves the factory during their QC checks?

Yes, Honda/Acura products are always ranked quite high on reliability surveys, however, high reliability does not always equal to high quality. In my opinion, reliability has more to do with the actual design: with a good design, even if the product is not assembled perfectly, the product can still be quite reliable. Also, with a good design, there should be minimal quality variances due to the assembly process.

Although the TL's competitors - Audi A4, BMW 3 series (or 5 series if you like), MB C Class (or E class if you like) are usually not as reliable as the TL (or any Honda/Acura product), their fit and finish are usually better than the TL (with the exception of the MB - both MB's quality and reliability seems to have declined significantly recently.)

It seems that with the 04TL, Acura's fit and finish has not improved that much since 1998. Furthermore, as I'm sure most current TL owners are aware of: the tranny problems. Although I'm lucky that my car doesn't have any tranny problems (touch wood), it is still quite upsetting to see a Honda/Acura product (which is supposed to be super reliable) to have such a basic fundamental problem.

I'm planning to replace my TL, since I prefer to drive a current model car (with factory warranty). The 04TL is one of my choices.

If Honda/Acura doesn't improve its fit and finish and build quality (READ: no rattles), then I'll have no choice but to leave the Acura family - I'm not willing to go through all that trouble to ask my dealer to fix the rattles and misaligned interior panels in my brand new 04TL!

FYI, I have driven my friend's TSX and my cousin's 02 3.5RL extensively. These two cars are both 100% made in Japan. They have virtually zero rattles, and the fit and finish of the interior panels are perfect.

Come to think of it, it seems that Honda's reputation of high quality and reliability was established when all Honda cars were made in Japan (before Honda built any North American factories).

I am now beginning to question if Honda still has the same high quality as before - do people automatically assume that a Honda product will have high quality just because it's a Honda/Acura?

I hope not. In my opinion, we, as consumers, should buy things with an open mind (and eyes) - if we see that a product has high quality, then it has high quality, regardless of its brand. We should not blindly buy a product because of its reputation - which I did with my 99TL, and I am quite disappointed with its quality (although it is very reliable).

Yes, Honda/Acura's products are very good value for the money. However, Why can Honda/Acura get away with such quality problems? It's because we, as consumers, are willing to overlook such problems (mainly because of the good value offered to us by Honda/Acura). So, if we want a better quality Honda/Acura product, we should show Honda that we will move to another brand if they don't improve their quality.

Let's hope the two issues will be sorted out when the 04TL goes into mass production.

Jason

welcome to the site 99TL, I think you're right in many ways. All I'm gonna point out is the reliability and quality of the Accord year in, year out. It's outstanding and American made. Also, I had no real problems with my CL-S during it's 82,000 miles.

92vigor

Looks like there is no adaptive cruise control.

The wheel picture shows the standard cruise buttons (cruise on/off, resume/accelerate, set/decelerate, cancel.

Too bad!

EmuMessenger

This is another technological disappointment. Acura (I thought) was boasting some new, great technology, but I have not seen it.

Yes, the stereo will do DVD-A, but in reality, while it is not DVD-A, Volvo has been doing surround sound for several years.

Bluetooth can be had in other cars, including Chrysler and BMW.

If the never before seen before technology is ONLY the stereo, I think people are going to be disappointed.

It seems like a lot of easy things that are wide-spread were left behind.

Parking assist
Ventilated seats
Power rear sun-shade
Adaptive cruise control
Intelligent key
Etc.

Anyone else feel the same way?

BTW, I will still likely buy the car in six speed HPT-Navi trim, if THE PRICE IS RIGHT!

Charmed

]


How much is right?


Does anyone think the Auto with Navi will be 33K or less?

EmuMessenger

If the HPT-Navi has Brembo four piston calipers all around, 18" wheels and at least 270 HP and a good, elaborate trip computer, sport suspension and some other goodies that do not come to mind, I would be willing to go in the 35 range.

phile

Emumesssenger - I know, I was sort of expecting some of those things too (I know the adaptive cruise control wasn't going to be available - the Autoweek article mentioned Honda's reluctance to introduce new technology to the US without playing with it in its home market first).

But the ventilated seats (or lack of, rather) struck me as odd - the TSX has them, why can't the TL? I think the new TL will have ventilated seats.

And the stereo - OK, new technology, but why the hell is there a cassete deck?! I'm also beginning to prefer the simplicity of the TSX's center console vs. the new TL's. I do like that the wood is on the center console, though. But I'm beginning to get turned off by the aluminum trim running so high up the console. It should've just stopped where the stereo started, like in the current TL's interior.

acuraman_RENAMED

nope. .... I would guess about 34 - 35K with nav....but we'll see in October

92vigor

see

92vigor

I think the price will be lower than expected.

what does this car have that the current TL doesn't that would justify the large price increase. You can add a handsfree bluetooth kit yourself for $250. 5.1 audio? Who cares? Some may like the sat radio but that option on most other makes is around $400. What does the new TL have besides better packaging and a little more power?

Base price should be under $31,000.

Charmed

So now we have more options.. But is the Navigation still a $2000 option? It's larger, and it could have more features.

RJC RSX

Where's the Concept TL mini-site on acura.com?

jwaters943

The TSX does not have ventilated seats. If you mean perforated leather, then yes it does have that.

princed

Actually, if you go to the Honda Japan site and look at the new Inspire, it too has the same standard steering wheel controls, and it is fitted with an advanced form of adaptive cruise control (HiDS).

There's still hope yet...

Gebbeth

I've been re-thiking the new TL, and I'm not sure if I'm happy with it. In a lot of ways, it really does look like an enlarged TSX. This is not a bad thing, but I was hoping for alittle more differentiation to set it up and part from the lower priced model (i.e., TSX vs. 325 and TL vs. 530), but it's kinda mixed now (TL vs. 330? or 530?). Something is missing.

As for the specs, HP at 270-280. Will this translate to any performance difference, especially if the weight of the new TL will be substantially heavier than last year's model (i.e., if the TSX's weight is a problem...gotta admit pretty heavy for the size car we drive...will the TL come in pretty heavy too?) I honestly expected more.

There's no AWD as far as I know. So we're talking strictly FWD. Acura is going to get the same criticism as before regarding handling/performance (not saying they are right, but some points they are correct and some they are not, all things being equal, if it was RWD, would you being seeing as many complaints...my guess is no).

The inside is okay, but kinda looks like a bulked up TSX with some extra accents. The seats look identical to the TSX. I don't think the cruise control is radar distance controlled because the right hand buttons on the steering wheel look identical to the TSX (Cruise on/off, Resume/Accelerate and Cancel). The left hand buttons look like the TSX audio controls plus the Nav audio buttons. I think I see a steering wheel tilt telescope button, but where's the Bluetooth function control? On the steering wheel, I see a mode button for the radio/CD, channel up down and volume up down only. In anycase, Bluetooth and DVD-A or 5.1 surround doesn't seem like that much of a technological advance to me and certainly doesn't add to the performance specs. The exhaust tips are normal exhausts with a fitting at the end to make them look kinda rectangular (they don't look extra wide and don't seem to be designed or tuned for note). Anyone thinking the interior is not...well luxurious enough for a luxury make and model?

The wheels looks like TSX wheels, which means they're probably too heavy, and better performing tires would be nice (although getting Yokohamas are probably a wet dream only).

I know everything is still up in the air, but I was really expecting something to blow my socks off in terms of luxury and performance, something to challenge the G35, 330/540. ES300 and IS300 and possibly even the E class Mercs. Honda/Acura just seems to be coming up short in their designs lately.

JeffPhx

Good god people, this is not a Maybach! The only one of these features that realistically could/should be on the TL would be the power rear sunshade. No other car in this class/price range has the other features as standard. It would be nice to have them, but then the car would NOT be priced in the low 30's and therefore out of it target demographics. Plus before Acura would put these on the TL, they would go into it's flagship sedan the RL. We will just have to wait and see until April 04 when the 05 RL comes out for some of these fancy features. If they are missing from the RL, then it is time to be disappointed.

Sorry for the ranting, but let's be realistic about things.

99TL_RENAMED

Yes, the TL is not a Maybach. However, those features are quite common in a luxury car nowadays. So those features are not that unrealistic.

In my opinion, if Acura wants the TL to compete with the german cars - Audi A6, BMW 5 series, MB E class, and the TSX to compete with Audi A4, BMW 3 series, MB C class, then all Acura has to do is price the TL and the TSX slightly cheaper with the same equipment and performance level as the competitors, and people who drive those other luxury brands will start looking at Acuras.

Acura doesn't have to price the TL in the low 30s at all - as long as its quality is at par with its competitors, and the feature list is similar or even better than its competitors, then pricing the TL similarly to its competitors should not be a problem. If Acura is supposed to be a luxury brand, why is it using value pricing? In where I live (Toronto, Canada), Acura TL is as almost as common as the V6 Accord. So, to the general public, Acura is just another Honda - good value for money. That's it.

Honestly, if the 04TL has AWD, and has a feature list similar to a fully loaded MB E320 4Matic, and the TL is priced US$3 to 4K less than the E320 4Matic, I would still go with the TL, because of its high predicted reliability. And maintenance on the TL will be much less expensive than the E320 4Matic, i.e. the total cost of ownership of the TL will definitely be lower than the MB.

Some people may say this is crazy, for $3 to $4K more, you can drive a fully loaded MB E320 4Matic. But put it this way, if the TL is really priced $3 to $4K less than the MB E320 4Matic, then the TL would become a much less common car, thus making it more "mysterious" and desirable, just like the MB.

Although Acura is trying to align the TSX with the BMW 3 series, apparently the TSX still falls short in a few areas, e.g. lack of AWD, and a 6 cylinder engine. If the TSX has a 6 cylinder and AWD, and even if it's priced similarly (or slightly less than a BMW 325xi), I'm sure lots of people will buy it over the BMW 325xi or even the 330xi, because of Acura's reputation for being highly reliable and lower cost of ownership.

For the TL, Acura should fully load the car with all the above luxury features and price it slightly lower than its competitors (at the same equipment level). As I mentioned above, Acura doesn't have to value price its Acura cars - value pricing is for the Honda brand.

I believe it's a mistake if Acura doesn't release an AWD version of the TL this coming September, because I think AWD will be the most significant difference between the current TL and the new TL, and it's much easier to target the new TL to the current TL owners, because they're "already in the Acura family". For example, it's much more difficult to convert a "Nissan fan" to an "Acura fan" than keeping an "Acura fan" as an "Acura fan".

To me, the only reason to "upgrade" to the 04TL (I'm a 99TL owner) will be the AWD if it's available. Otherwise, I can't really think of any good reason to "upgrade". As mentioned by a previous poster, bluetooth, better brakes, suspension, tires/rims, and even DVD-A/5.1 can all be installed in my car too. But I will not be able to install AWD in my car.

Basically to sum it up: Acura is a luxury brand, and therefore, it should be priced higher. Acura should aim at higher profit per unit and sell less units.

Aiming to sell Acuras at a lower profit per unit and selling more units is not the way to go - this is a job for the Honda brand.

Remember, exclusivity is a benefit of driving luxury cars. Therefore, if Acura is a luxury brand, it should be more exclusive.

BbPhaeton

Again, thanks for the great pictures Lycos and SSH.

After seeing the pictures, I am both happy and sad. It is like anti climactic. Perhaps, because it is the hunt that makes for all the excitement.

I am happy because the things that I don't like on this new TL can be easily fixed (relatively) by mods/after market.

For me, things that I don't like are:
1. Side indentation and side markers: I have to see it in person first, to see how bad it is, but, generally, I like clean simple design. I don't think it's that hard to remove this, as long as you willing to pay for it. Being picky, I won't settle for bondo, but, maybe cutting the indentation and welding a new sheet metal to the door skin, front and rear fenders with minimal bondo. While you are at it, custom made a side marker, either from MB or TSX to the side mirrors, and hook up the wiring of the original side marker to the new one on the mirror. The hard part will be to incorporate the red rear side marker to the rear lights. Perhaps using LED will do. Or, if you can just make do without it. I don't know how the DOT law are for this, but, I notice that on my 1999 TL, the rear lights doesn't contain the red side marker anymore. I thought this is illegal. What do you guys think? Will somebody with more Photoshop talent than me ps the TL without this indentation? TIA. Also, notice that on the new pictures, the middle side markers are smoked. Perhaps, they are smoked unless lighted.

2. The "Acura" on the front bumper. Can be fixed by going legit in CA (ie. installing the front license plate). Or choose a dark color. I vowed to not getting a black car again this time, it is so hard to maintain. So, perhaps I will be getting Abyss Blue Pearl next year.
Or if some aftermarket offer the front bumper similar to the concept, also I can accept if it is included with a tasteful lower front valance (altough I prefer exactly like the concept).

3. The non color coded rear license surround. Again, this will not noticeable on dark colored car. Will look perfect on Nighthawk Black Pearl, but, that Abbys blue looks so nice...

Okay, that's it, sorry for the long post. The sad part is next.

larchmont

.........drumroll plus Chopin's Funeral March............................

Jason

That's exactly what Acura is doing.

I'm not sure I follow your logic here. You're saying that just because the car sells well, it is perceived to be the same as a family car? What about the 3-series, I see them all the time. If you were to argue the Acura doesn't have as much prestige as BMW or MB, I would agree. But that would explain why Acura has decided to price itself a little less. Is a luxury nameplate just a nameplate or does it have to include overall quality and great dealer experience? I submit the latter.

This is another thing I don't agree with. I don't think MB or BMW are rare and mysterious at all. In fact, I'm sick of seeing them. You know what is rare and mysterious? The TSX. Besides, $3000 to $4000 at this price point makes much less difference than at $26,990. Also, I believe the TL will start at $33K. Going up in increments of $2000, that puts us at around 37K for a fully loaded TL. Any MB E-class or BMW 5-series will cost significantly more than $40K.

The above luxury features ARE NOT NECESSARY for the TL. They are necessary for the RL. WHy would Acura put it's best technology on it's second most expensive car? People clamoring for those above features are the same people who don't understand why Acura won't put a V6 into a TSX Type S: brand positioning.

There are huge differences between your TL and the upcoming TL. In fact, the changes are so extensive we can't go into mentioning each and every one of them. AWD would have been a beautiful thing, but not having it does not dimish the significance of this new TL.

Raheel

Ya I was like WTF, I never knew that!

BbPhaeton

No, larchmonth, not that sad to require a funeral march song...

Now, the sad part is no AWD this year!!!!

Actually, looking at the new bottom of the car picture, do you think that there is room for the rear differential? There is still hope, and I am hoping AWD will be offered in the next year or two. This will make it a real baby Phaeton. Notice how the window switches and inside door handle are so Audi like?

What makes the long wait for the AWD is bearable is that currently I am unemployed. Shameless plug: Anybody needs an MFC software engineer, or anything dealing with Windows software (ie. I know InstallShield, QA, etc.). EOS (end of shameless plug)

Another things that makes the wait bearable (if it is a good thing) is: The vehicle license fee in CA will be tripled. For some reason, both of my car escape this year, but, I heard that next year will be tripled. Also, I just done the smog this past couple days, around $ 50 with coupon, and it is used to be around $ 30. I know, it's small amount, but, when you are unemployed, every penny counts

Next is the happy part.

larchmont

I think you meant larchmouth.

BbPhaeton

Now, the happy part again

1. Looks like both the wipers can be raised (like when washing the car) without needing to move them from the park position first. The current TL passenger side wiper blade interfere with the hood (design flaw/weakness)

2. I like the fact that horn button position is near the spokes of the wheel, instead of on the center like the current TL, and the newly redesigned RL steering wheel, where you can be slapped by your own hand if you honk when the airbag pops out. Ouch...

3. LED taillights. Yeah baby.

4. 6 MT with real hand brake (as opposed to the awkward foot emergency brake)

Well, I am pretty happy with everything else.

iNteGraz92

who cares, HID high beams are a total waste. all you need are HID lows. regular halogen high beams will do JUST fine.

BbPhaeton

For those who are afraid to order black on black, as long as the new TL has AC like the current one or better, or unless you live near Death Valley, I found that heat is a non-issue for me.

Granted, I live in SF Peninsula, but, I've travelled to LA, Reno or even San Jose during heatwave/summer, and the AC did fine even after the car had been sitting under the sun for a while. Just make sure you use sun shade, it will help a lot.

Another thing I just noticed from the picture is, that the rear lights might not necessarily an LED. I think the current Pilot or MDX has rear lights that light up like an LED, but, it's just a regular bulb with nifty reflectors. We'll see.

iNteGraz92

could you get any pickier? those are seriously minor issues.
i'm sure PLENTY of cars probably have misaligned interior pieces but you'd never know it, since you probably wouldn't be looking at every inch of the interior. unless of course, all you had was a picture, and all you could do is look all around for any problems.:P

Gebbeth

I agree with 99TL. Yes, I know, this isn't a Maybach, but some of the stuff we as Acura/Honda fans have been asking for is no longer in the realm of the "way out there high-tech" either and have been in other cars of similar price/status as the TL. Is AWD or RWD really an innovation? Can a RWD/AWD car be priced competitively with the German manufacturers. Of course it can. The G35 is a perfect example. More horsepower, surely. A little more luxury is also possible. C'mon guys, let's not blindly accept whatever Honda throws out there because we're all Honda fans. They do make mistakes (lets face it, the RL sucks and I'm one of those people who think the new Accord is butt ugly).

And to respond to one of the posters, the reason why you see so many 3 series BMWs is because they are awesome cars that do everything well...luxury appointments, RWD, awesome handling, V6 and the exclusiveness that comes with the name "BMW." People are willing to buy a car like that and they have in droves. Am I sick of seeing them? Yeah may be, but would you turn one down if you could afford it? Probably no, and some people I know will even go beyond their means to buy one....YES EVEN OVER AN ACURA.

Fact is, for the majority of the buying public, there is not enough differentiation between the Honda lines and the Acura. In the minds of many, other than the horsepower increase, the interior appointments down to the keys looks very much like each other, and the price points were a few thousands off. This is not enough for those who seek true luxury and a step up. And people will pay for it.

Again, not knowing fully what the new TL will have, I would like to see these improvements (some of these also apply to the TSX)....AND YES, IF GOOD ENOUGH, I WOULD PAY MORE (MUCH MORE) AND WOULD BUY IT OVER A BMW:

1) TL: 300 HP, TSX: 240 HP
2) TL/TSX: AWD
3) TL: Rear sunshade TSX: Optional rear sunshade
4) TL: Auto tilt and telescoping wheel, TSX: optional
5) TL/TSX: Auto up and down on all four windows
6) TL: 18" wheels (light alloy wheels) TSX: light alloy wheels
TL/TSX: stickier tires
7) TL: Park distance control, option.
8) TSX: Passenger side power front seats (hell, even the Accord EX has them for Pete's sake).
9) TL: Steering wheel mounted shifters (not shifter mounted).
10) TL/TSX: Trip computer

They key though are the first two. These are critical to these cars. These cars are not going to win the name game or the RWD game. So they need to stand out. The extra HP and the AWD should even the perception gap, and as you know, perception is often reality.

99TL_RENAMED

Jason,

Thanks for your reply.

That's exactly why I think the TL shouldn't be priced similarly to a 3 series (otherwise people would think the TL competes with the 3 series). Basically, if the TL (better equipped) is priced similarly to a base 3 series, you'll see them everywhere, just like the base 3 series. And this is exactly what's happening with the current TL. As far as I know, the TL is supposed to compete with the 5 series, and the TSX is supposed to compete with the 3 series.

Yes, the cheaper MB or BMW are not rare or mysterious at all (e.g. MB C class, E320 (non 4Matic), BMW 320i, 323i, 325i, 525i, 528i). I see them all the time too. Even with these cheaper models, the ones that we see all the time are the non-loaded models. If you try to find a fully loaded version of any one of these models, then it would be quite difficult, because they would be very rare (and expensive). That's why I said if the TL has a similar feature list as a fully loaded E320 4Matic, for example, and it's priced a bit less, then I think people would still buy the TL over the MB E320 4Matic, esp. given the recent low reliability rating of MB.

Also, one more thing I want to point out: why do the "nicer" BMWs and MBs keep their values better? It's not only because of their brands, it's also because of their rarity. In fact, this can also be seen in Acura's own RL. The RL has a much better resale value than the TL. Why? It's because the RL is much rarer compared to the TL. Simple demand and supply. In the used car market, for the RL, the demand may meet or exceed the supply. For the TL, the supply far exceeds the demand.

Yes, the TSX, right now, is rare and mysterious, but that's because it's been out for only a few months. If you give the TSX a few more years, I think there will be more TSXs on the road than BMW 3 series (equipped comparably).

Yes, the above luxury features are not necessary for the TL. But the features of the new TL that we know of so far are unnecessary as well: bluetooth, DVD-A. Why is Acura putting these features in? It's because Acura wants to try to set the TL apart from the competition. If Acura wants to capture customers from its competitors, it must offer better (and more) features than the competitors, at a slight price advantage.

Regarding the RL, it's alright to have the same features as the TL. BMW 7 series has the i-drive, the new BMW 5 series will have the i-drive too. What sets the 7 series apart from the 5 series? More luxury features, bigger size, more refined (and more expensive).

The RL can do the same - it just needs to have more luxury features (e.g. RWD/AWD, power rear side sunshades, in addition to the rear sunshade, power rear and heated seats with power head rests, rear vanity mirrors, rear power outlets for hooking up laptop/phones, power folding mirrors, pneumatic door/trunk closers (likes the ones in the G2 Legend coupes and MB W140 S Class), and double glazed side glasses, just to name a few). Of course, the RL would be bigger and overall more refined and more expensive too.

If Acura can make a V6 that generates 300 to 325hp with decent torque and runs as smoothly as a V8 (and more efficiently), then I don't think a V8 is necessary in the RL. This will be consistent with Honda/Acura's philosophy of building fuel efficient and environmentally friendly vehicles.

Besides the obvious gadgets like bluetooth and DVD-A, and the body sheet metal/rims/tires and interior panels, how is the 04TL different from my 99TL? I know from this forum (and hope) the displacement of the engine is bigger (200 cc bigger?), which is good (but I don't think it'll be a significant feature for me) Is the chassis' torsional rigidity much higher?

I find that the rattles/squeaks in my car that were not successfully fixed were caused by the chassis flexing under high cornering loads. So, obviously, my car's chassis is not "strong enough" for such a powerful 3.2L V6 engine. If the 04TL's engine is even more powerful, then I really hope Honda has stiffen up the chassis significantly, otherwise, I am quite certain that there will be rattles/squeaks in the 04TL as well.

Not sure if anyone remembers, but the Acura Vigor GS, when it first came out in 1992, was the first car with a DSP (Digital Signal Processor) built into its stereo system. The DSP didn't help to sell the Vigor too well (we all know how well the Vigor did - although there are other factors that made the Vigor not too appealing). That's why I'm skeptical about this DVD-A in the 04TL being the first car to have this audio technology - I think it's a gimmick more than anything else, and if Acura thinks this is going to be the "breakthrough" technology that will get people to buy the 04TL, then I think they've made a serious mistake. Also, as one poster has mentioned before, Volvo has been doing surround sound in its cars for a few years already - I don't think most Volvo buyers bought their Volvos because of the surround sound.

I really hope this DVD-A is not what Justin was referring to as something that the 04TL will have that's not available in any other cars so far. Seriously, who needs to have a 5.1 system in the car? Does one really care about the correct sound imaging/spatial effects created by a 5.1 system while driving? I think people should focus on the road when they're driving - music shouldn't be the main focus - a stereo system in a car is there to provide background music at low volumes with decent clarity - it's not supposed to be a home theatre system.

99TL_RENAMED

Yes, those are minor issues. But I seriously believe Honda's reputation for high quality and reliability wouldn't be where it is today if their QC inspectors were not pickier than me.

If we, as Honda/Acura fans start accepting such bad quality products from Honda/Acura, the quality of Honda/Acura products will simply decline, because Honda realizes that it doesn't need to make ultra high quality and reliable products any more to satisfy its fans. Actually, this is already occuring with the current TL - people buy the TL because it's made by Honda, without really looking at the quality of the car.

Not sure if you guys remember, Honda cars used to be so perfect - every panel, switch, gap are all perfectly spaced and aligned, straight from the factory. No rattles. Everything just works flawlessly. I think these are some of the reasons why we all became Honda fans. Come to think of it, isn't the phrase "Everything just works" used in the amazing JDM/Euro commercial for the JDM Accord (Acura TSX)? I think the idea behind that commercial is to remind people what Honda is all about - everything made by Honda just works flawlessly in harmony.

Now that Honda seems to be "slacking" off in their quality (and quality control), should we put up with it as Honda fans? I DON'T THINK SO.