Sarlacc

You dont think so?

Honda sure got away with dropping the superior front and rear double wishbone for a cheaper front macpherson strut.

And if I'm not tracking the car...Im not sure it really impacts me that much.

And, duh, VW made cheap moves all over the place with their NA only version of the jetta (and passat)....its what is allowing them to sell them for the low prices they are getting...which has proven to be a very smart move on their part.

Ken1997TL

My only problem with VW, is that it is in fact, VW. Meaning shoddy reliability, lots of unnecessary dealership visits. I can think of several anecdotal stories from friends alone, all of whom swear to never buy or lease another one.

Plus their dealerships overall have a terrible reputation. I'm lucky to have excellent Acura dealers.

Having said all this, the Jetta TDI wagon at approximately $30,000 comes well equipped, having some things my TSX wagon does not. I paid $35,000 for mine. I also plan on keeping it for a long time, so I figured I'd pay more to have something I can live with.

MTEAZY

That's what Honda did with the 2012 Civic and everyone shit bricks. But VW is German so no one has the balls to say anything.

Ken1997TL

Honda stopped using double-wishbones in the Civic's front suspension for the 2001 model.

MTEAZY

I was referring to the other cost-cutting moves. Even so the US Civic still has IRS.

Sarlacc

While Acura has the track record of reliability (though that has come into question as of late compared to the Acura many of us knew and loved) the VW is hit and miss.

Yes, there are horror stories. And then there are people who never have issues. And the diesels seem to have less issues than the others. I mean thunder a bought a TDI sedan and has some issue with the sunroof and it got fixed.

dealers....again hit or miss...Ive been to acura dealers that are shittier than some honda dealers. And some that are really good. VW, Im sure, would be the same experience.

Hell, I own a dodge...same shit. Thankfully, I have found two dealers that had very good dealer networks...but that doesn't matter to me anymore as my warranty expired at the end of Oct. but the car has been rock solid and one of the best Ive ever owned.

Im not slamming the TSX Wagon (and i know you know this) in any way...I like the car, its the only Acura that turns my head right now. But I feel it has competition for the money. And premium fuel for a 4 banger that costs 35K...not an option in my opinion for what my auto needs are.

SSFTSX

It is not 5K more for comparable equiped. Auto TDI wagon auto/sun roof start at $28,400 with 17 rims There is no HID. $500 for rear spoiler. Tire x-section 225/45. it is less thick so less comfort. TSX wagon is $32k. Its $3k difference.
TSX does not need premium and it will still get same fuel economic. you get longer life high quality Michellen tires in TSX. good for 55k miles.
Insurance make difference after 4 years of depreciation. almost $500 a year.
Cars are depreciated for vehicle renewal. its better to keep things for 6 or 7 years when technology really make difference rather keep changing every 3 years.

Sarlacc

Making the Jetta a NA only model built in Mexico was a HUGE cost cutting move, which allows them to undercut their competition.

And again...Im not taking a Sportwagon on a track. I see SEVERAL TDI wagons on the road everyday, so I'm not really sure where the argument is headed.

And again...this is ALL moot because I took a deal on a SUV that trumps them all in terms of price vs what Im getting for the price and cost of ownership.

MTEAZY

I have no argument, just having a conversation.

Sarlacc

A fully loaded Jetta SW TDI is $30K...a fully loaded TSX Wagon is $36K.

The TSX doesnt neeeed premium...but lets be honest. If you were to buy the car for long term ownership you'd be stupid not to. And there is a reason Acura recommends premium.

As for you attempt to tell me its better to own for 6-7 years vs leasing every 3...Considering I write off the majority of the car under my business...Yeah, I'll continue to ignore you're baseless ramblings.

Sarlacc

ok

SSFTSX

$36k car has high quality music system and large navigation screen. it is not cheap Jetta screen. recommending premium is for performance not for long life. it wont make a difference. i had previous 1G TSX all on regular and the previous owner always used regular unleaded. if ur writing off than ur not for fuel economic. there is no point in noisy TDI with less insulation in hot weather.

Sarlacc

Its as comparable as its going to get, not really sure what you can't squeeze in to that thick skull of yours in regards to that. But I like you're trying to sneak your subjective view in there again...

I'll let others debate the use of reg in an engine that recommends premium. I'm tired of that circle.

If I'm writing off a portion it has nothing to do with what I am or am not for. That vehicle is serving a purpose and if I had gone with small wagon than fuel economy WAS very much important.

But thanks for trying to tell me what my needs are.

Less insulation? Ever hear of tint...its this great new invention...Hot weather? Sure we have some hot days...but I don't live in Phoenix or Vegas...I live near the water.

Thanks, for this evening you have really shown me how far a human can stuff their head up their ass. No really, I'm impressed.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I don't think acura understands how typical Americans think. They only look skin deep and don't care about what's underneath the skin. All the technology/improvements will go right over their heads. They will just look at price, looks, hp numbers, and how fast it goes in a straight line.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Pretty funny coming from someone who thinks they know it all and are always right. Thanks for the laugh. You do realize you do the same exact thing also. All people do.

F23A4

Alright guys, take a chill pill. We don't need a war breaking out in this thread so, let's curb the insults.

TSX69

Acura Seeks FlagShip Status for New RLX Model

Once upon a time, Acura pushed the cutting edge of cabin technology, pioneering such features such as navigation and active noise cancellation. But times changed and Acura didn't, letting other automakers steal the high-tech mantle. Now Acura fights back with the RLX, a new high-end sedan with some odd quirks.

By and large, premium and luxury automakers use rear-wheel-drive for their flagship sedans, an architecture maintained more out of tradition than real necessity. Acura has alway bucked this trend, and continues to do so with the RLX. This model will launch as a front-wheel-drive car sporting a 3.5-liter direct injection engine.

But current standards, that specification is nothing to write home about, as even economy car makers go to direct injection. However, later next year Acura promises a much higher tech drivetrain, this 1 incorporating a hybrid system and all-wheel-drive. The 3.5-liter V-6 will remain, and get added power from an electric drive system at the rear wheels. As with other hybrids, the battery pack will recapture energy that would have been lost from braking.

The hybrid version should not only add significant power, but Acura estimates it will get 6 mpg better for average fuel economy than the front-wheel-drive V-6 version.

Acura boasts a few intriguing technologies for the new sedan. For one, it will come with LED headlights standard, wide arrays that bookend the Acura shield grille. LED headlights use much less power than current bi-xenon lamps, and should last much longer, as well. In addition, LED headlights allow for a more tightly defined throw pattern.

The front-wheel-drive model will also get an innovative handling technology, four wheel steering. Acura calls this system Precision All-Wheel Steer. It is designed to work in concert with traction control and stability technologies to allow for fast, stable cornering. The all-wheel-drive hybrid version will not feature this technology, but should offer torque vectoring at the rear wheels.

The exterior of the RLX looks unremarkable, a long, smooth-sided sedan with little ornamentation. Its most distinguishing features are its grille and headlights. However, what could be seen as lack of flair becomes understatement when you sit in the cabin, which exudes a sense of luxury through its materials and design.

Most telling for the luxury experience is an optional 14 speaker Krell audio system, a step up from the standard 10 speaker ELS system. During an in-car demo on the show floor, the system delivered an incredibly dynamic audio experience. Playing tracks with traditional instruments on an Acura demo CD, the entire range of a single note from a bass guitar came through clearly, while the vocal reproduction made it sound like the singers were in the car. For those who appreciate music, this system will offer plenty of satisfaction.

Krell is not a generally familiar name, playing in the high-end audio world. The company spent 4 years during the development of the RLX, coming up with speaker technologies and placement, and refining the system's output. Beyond its sound quality, the system announces its presence with nice, metal grilles on the door speakers.

The dashboard of the RLX on display in Los Angeles had two LCDs in the center stack, which was reminiscent of the 2013 Accord model recently launched by Honda. In the Accord, the screen arrangement is an inelegant solution to building cars with and without a navigation option. For the RLX, Acura should have either made navigation standard, and consolidated infotainment on one screen. Alternatively, the company could have just made a single screen host only phone and audio information when the navigation option was not present. The 2 screen system is a little strange.

The RLX will also offer a host of driver assistance features, from blind spot monitoring to adaptive cruise control, helping it compete with other luxury flagships.

The front-wheel-drive RLX model should go on sale in the 1st half of 2013, with the hybrid model following in the 2nd half.

Sarlacc

Funny coming from a douche nozzle who peaks his head in threads, makes blatantly ignorant and racist comments and then runs away be a schmuck elsewhere.

Yeah buddy, you're a real winner yourself.

Legend2TL

The new LS grill looks awful

I'm not a fan of the RLX grill it would look better without the power plenum solid piece. If they replaced it with two more horizontal slats like whats below it that would be OK.

Legend2TL

The RLX styling blandness reminds me of the new 5/7 series which are also pretty bland. I think the bland styled luxury models outsell the sporty styled models so that's my guess on why Honda/Acura selected that.

Hapa DC5

^ Hey buddy.

I felt the RL was a decent car for its time even pretty good in '05. I was just hoping Acura would bring it since they had a great opportunity for a reset. They didn't.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I don't think we need to assume.....I think the RLX is indeed targeted to go against the 5/E/GS, etc.

You mentioned M Sport, Sport, F sport. In other words, it seems like what you want is perhaps a sport package or sport trim of the base RLX? I think that's a good idea. That would certainly inject some excitement to the model.

The 5 series is fine but the E 350, even with sport, doesn't look that exciting IMO....The GS is ugly..especially after the refresh...just isn't my cup of tea. With that said, I think Honda is too chicken. We have all witnessed the 4G TL. THAT was not boring. But how many people actually like the design here? Do you?

I think TL and TSX will become the TLX....at least that's what I've heard....

Yes, I like it. I think that's something that people want here. Acura made a ZDX based on the MDX. Why not make a RLX gran coupe based on the RLX too (and make it pretty...if possible...)?

Sad, but true.
Krell Audio? Screw it.
Sport hybrid? Don't care.
3 electric motors? so what?
30mpg in the city? Irrelevant.

Although it wouldn't be a bad idea to offer some sort of sport package to make things more interesting!

VTEC Racer

https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...1&postcount=32

https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...9&postcount=17

https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...1&postcount=41

https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...8&postcount=36

https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...5&postcount=32

https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...3&postcount=27

https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...2&postcount=81

https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...8&postcount=29

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...8#post13926907


You've made it crystal clear. Thanks!

Legend2TL

I (and imagine some others on this thread) wanted to see a purpose built RWD longitudinal drivetrain/chassis platform, and not a FWD/AWD. Knowing how well Honda did on the S2000 and NSX they could have had a performance competitive mid-size luxury car. Instead they stepped back to the transverse FWD/AWD approach, they may work very well (awaiting reviews) but I'd like to have seen what Acura could have done with the RWD program they cancelled.

BTW, I also really like the 2G RL as well. Drove really well, a step above my TL in quality, and liked the styling.

Moog-Type-S

Acura does not carry the badge prestige of BMW, Mercedes, or Lexus, so they cannot generate a bump in sales on legacy/prestige alone for the RLX, whereas a 5 series, E class, or dare I say GS can/will.

The general car buying public considers Acura a step below the top lux makes.

To nullify this "handicap" Acura needed to bring something to the table: An elegant, beautiful, exterior design that has "presence".

Acura decided to "go with what we know": vanilla styling, Accord lines/style, but bigger, slap the very, very, long in tooth 5 point corporate front end, nothing too amazing on the interior side of things, and done! (I think they also feared the TL and ZDX design failures too....those being extremely polarizing)

Sure, the Krell audio will be excellent. Sure the super duper PAWS will be nifty stuff.
MPG numbers will be something to look at.

....but at the end of the day Honda unfortunately decided to wrap up their goodies in box of boring looks.....and without a prestige badge to boot.

They will stumble out of the gate once again.

Bottom line: Acura needs to clean house and bring in a new lead designer that will bring a new corporate front end, and new identity to the exterior designs of the vehicle lineup.

MeehowsBRZ

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Yumcha

Friendly reminder to the participants in here: Keep it civil.



Again, I must stress that while you may not agree with an opinion you find outrageous, it is still just an opinion. You can choose two ways to deal with it: provide a counterpoint in a civil manner OR ignore the opinion you furiously disagree with.

Knock it off guys, the mod staff is getting impatient with the same crowd doing the same tomato-tossing.



Thanks.

Legend2TL

Correct, from the Hondanews PR and also states it's Acura's flagship.

"The flagship RLX sedan has up to three inches more rear legroom than competing models, including the BMW 535i, Lexus GS350 and Audi A6."

http://www.hondanews.com/channels/co...eles-auto-show

Haven't seen detailed photo's of the brakes yet, but didn't see 4 piston calipers mentioned in the PR.

fsttyms1

I love the tech, but just wish they would have applied a little more styling. Ill reserve more judgment when i start to see sales numbers but based on its looks im not sure its going to be much more successful than the last RL. I hope im wrong.

jwong77

Agreed, I sort of wish they would evolve the sharpish lines of the 3G TL and 1G TSX. Those designs still had the 5 point front end, but were sharp designs for their time, especially the TL. But in the end, the FWD architecture means the proportions will be off (long front overhang).

jnc2000

Until they evolve the drivetrain tech (move to FR) -- large front overhangs... disproportionate front to rear weight distribution, and poor packaging will continue.

MTEAZY

Sarlacc

Just saw it in person at the autoshow.

Where at Acura's display every fucking car was BLACK except the NSX...it was the most dystopian display at the auto show from a major brand (although infiniti wasn't much better).

Acura placed the NSX concept as the highlight. And the RLX was on a display off to the side next to an ILX.

I can honestly say it a boring looking sedan. The front grille is horrendous. And while the quality of the interior is nice that dash buldges towards you like some pornstar waving his crotch in your face. Which is of course more than likely why VTECH Ricer loves it.

Nothing about this car shouts presence....except maybe its oversized out of shape tail lamps.

Looking at and sitting in a GS right after was such a huge relief. As was looking at the A6...and the current 5 series.

DOA.

Moog-Type-S

BLACK: Making ugly cars look not so ugly, since forever.


....just like the black dress on the fat chick....black hides so much.

Sarlacc

I love black cars...two of my three current vehicles are black (the one that was just traded was also black)

That said....when you go to a booth to look at vehicles and you see no variety...its BORING...and in a darker atmosphere like the convention center...all that black sucks the life out of the display...and it does indeed feel like they are trying to hide something.

Costco

So what have we learned, kids? Most people are not impressed with the RL's styling. What a surprise

Their lineup overlap is going to bite them in the ass later. More cars will generate more showroom traffic but when each model is that similar to the next they will only end up cannibalizing each other.

Acura just can't win. Instead of trying to emulate Lexus they should have just gone the Infiniti route and lopped off the RL entirely. Infiniti did the whole fancy LED headlight cluster with the Q45 and nobody gave a crap... here you see Acura doing the same thing albeit in a much less impressive fashion.

A bunch of impressive technology in an otherwise forgettable package.

Sarlacc

The problem is...Infiniti HAD a flagship to "lop off"

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Yea, as I've been saying, a 4-door coupe based on the RLX is needed to satisfy people here. Acura obviously chose a more conservative design approach for the RLX following what happened to the 4G TL and ZDX. That's perfectly understandable. But to make people who want a sportier appearance with even more road presence, make a derivative from the RLX to compete with A7, CLS, 6 series gran coupe etc.

Anyway, IMO, I can see Honda going pretty much all out on the RLX based on the resources that they have. They are bringing back 4WS. They are being innovative with the sport hybrid system that gets you 30mpg in the city, 370hp, and instant torque. They team up with Krell for the audio system (I think the cheapest Amp that Krell offers is like $65k or something). At least Honda is trying to do well, rather than making an half @$$ attempt. At least they are finally putting words into action. This is not to say the RLX is flawless and it's the best in the class. Obviously it has its shortcomings too. But I'd just like to give credit where credit is due. It's great to see new innovations from Honda.

Costco

Therein lies the rub... Acura can't even get the RL to take off. In comparison Infiniti has the M35/45, and it's worth keeping around apparently. I'm somehow made to believe that the RL is going to be the flagship, when in comparison it'll be competing with the likes of the E-Class, 5-series, A6, M, etc.

I don't see the RL as a flagship at all either. Who does?

Sarlacc

Thats because they cant find any balance. The TL and ZDX where extremes...the TL and overdone extreme of the 3rd gen, which is possibly one of the best acura designs ever.

The ONLY Acura there that impressed me was the NSX...it looks 100X better in person than in photographs.

I still dont think it will be the timeless design the OG is...but I was very impressed seeing with my own eyes vs how I've felt seeing photos the last few months.