Acura: RDX News

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Old 04-13-2012, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by iforyou

Anyways, we all know how much the 6AT helps when you compare the 2g MDX 5AT and MDX 6AT.

2009 MDX 5AT: 15/20/17mpg
2010 MDX 6AT: 16/21/18mpg

It's fair to say that one extra ratio is good for at most 6% fuel economy gain. I said at most because other than an extra ratio, Honda also made changes to the new gearbox that help improve performance and fuel efficiency. The gain isn't too much because the old 5AT also has long top gear. It's hard to make it a lot longer as the engine probably is not powerful enough to cruise at 60mph at 1000rpm....

The real benefit like you said is acceleration. From test results, on average the 6AT MDX is 0.5 second faster from 0-60mph and 1/4 mile test.

I personally think 6AT or 7AT is the best. The advantage of having even more ratios become less and less (diminishing returns) to the point that I think CVT would make more sense, that is, if it can handle the high amount of torque.
I own an 09 MDX (5AT) and was given a 12 MDX (6AT) loaner for a couple of days while the former was being serviced so, I can state my SOTP feel corroborates those test results.
Old 04-13-2012, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
^^^^^

Just for curiosity, does Getrag still make transmissions for GM vehicles ?
to the best of my knowledge, no.

Every LS engine-equipped manual transmission GM uses a Tremec transmission of some sort. IIRC Aisin Warner makes the manual transmission for the V6 Camaro, but I could be mistaken.

Then every automatic is some longitudinal or transverse Turbo Hydramatic variants, with an Allison transmission for the diesel trucks.
Old 04-14-2012, 06:40 AM
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There are 2 kinds of people reading this review of the 2013 Acura RDX. The 1st would be mainstream buyers thinking about a RX350, Q5, SRX, GLK, FX35, XC60, or any other luxury crossover with no vowels in the name. The others are car geeks that devour everything they can about the automotive world. You know who you are.

Car geeks loved the original RDX. It was light weight, had a powerful turbocharged 4-cylinder engine and Super Handling All-Wheel Drive that overspun the outside rear wheel to give it a handling advantage. Very cool stuff and mucho fun to drive. Mainstream buyers just didn’t get it though and headed off to buy more Lexus RX350s.

The new RDX is aimed directly at the mainstream. In some ways it follows the predictable path redesigned vehicles often take -- slightly larger inside and out, more fuel efficient too. But it isn’t trying to capture the edgy design and personality of the outgoing model. I have to believe the changes they’ve made to the personality will make it the most popular model Acura sells, even though it’s missing features the other brands have had for years.

Back to the Future

That outgoing turbo 4-cylinder is what many automakers consider to be the engine of the future because they’re powerful, lightweight and fuel efficient. So it’s a bit of a surprise that under the hood of the 2013 MDX you’ll find… a V6? I’m not complaining. The classic 3.5-liter unit has 273 horses on tap, up by 33 horsepower. It’s smoother than the turbo and it sounds good. Between the 2 motors, the V6 will be an instant crowd pleaser on test drives.

The automatic transmission adds an extra gear, for 6-speeds now. Shift manually if you want with paddle shifter on the steering wheel.

The good news is that fuel economy is up substantially. The AWD tester I’m driving is EPA rated at 19 mpg city, 27 highway. That’s a 5 mpg increase in highway fuel economy versus the previous RDX and Acura says it’s now best in class. On a long drive to Forks, WA to visit Evil Twin (where else would he live?) I saw 29 mpg. Front drive models are rated at 20/28. There’s variable cylinder management at work here. In other words RDX can run on as few as 3 pistons, depending on how much power is needed.

No Lack Of Power

0-60 spools up in just under 7 seconds. There’s a big improvement in the ride quality, sharp bumps are soaked up quite nicely but it doesn’t roll like an old Cadillac in hard cornering. Steering effort feels hefty and European. The composed RDX handles very well though it’s not as crisp, nimble and flingable as before. Car geeks (who probably never bought the 1st 1) may grouse about this but the harsh reality is that most buyers will prefer the substantial and comfortable dynamic of the 2013 model. It’s very balanced.

There is much less road noise now, very little wind noise gets though at high speeds, making it an excellent road trip vehicle. When it comes time to stop and take a photo of a scenic vista, RDX is very capable and secure.

Mudfest Winner

Not very many people are going to head off-road with this rig but at the 2012 Mudfest SUV competition, I and 24 other auto writers beat the snot out of it on a rough course at Dirt Fish Rally School. RDX has no problem handling rugged forest service roads and moderate pool of water. It’s doubtful owners will ever punish their cars to the degree we did. In the end it won the title of Best Family SUV and received high praise from every writer emerging from its mud caked doors.

I’m driving the very 1 used at Mudfest. It’s a testament to the RDX that after the punishment, there are no squeaks, groans or rattles. None

Car geeks will groan because RDX no longer uses Super Handling All-Wheel Drive. It now uses AWD with Intelligent Control, which is very similar to the system in Honda’s new CR-V. Mainstream buyers will probably never know or care, as long as they don’t get stuck in snow or mud. In normal steady driving, all power is sent to the front wheels. It automatically sends power to the tires with the most grip.

Go With The Flow

There’s a new approach to the interior. Hard angles are replaced with flowing and inviting lines. All the expected stuff is here- soft touch materials, phone and iPod integration, and contoured heated leather chairs. Hit reverse and the mirrors swing down to show wheel scraping curbs. The rear view camera is adjustable, it shoots straight down to help when hooking up a trailer hitch alone, or switched to a ultra wide mode to get the big picture.

The center stack has less of the swarm of buttons normally found on Honda products. There is dual-zone auto climate control and keyless ignition to make life easier. Lots of places to stash stuff too.

Using the tech means turning, nudging and pushing the familiar Honda interface. Personally, I prefer touch screens but the familiar knob works just fine. There are voice commands too but they system doesn’t seem to like my voice. The optional nav system offers up traffic information and weather forecasts. Hook up a smartphone and there’s Pandora streaming music. It can also read incoming text messages depending on your phone.

Acura ELS sound systems have always been among my favorites and this one is no different. It doesn’t color the sound, bass is tight and accurate. Play DVD audio disks and the surround sound stage is mesmerizing. The hard disk has 15 gigs dedicated to music storage, plus there’s Bluetooth audio streaming. XM satellite radio continues to sound grainy and thin.

Space In The Back

Moving to the rear, there’s plenty of leg and foot room for average sized adults. The floor is flat, the bench is wide enough for 3 adults, 2 if they’re large or using the folding armrests with cupholders. There’s 2 seat pockets and storage in the doors too. Too bad the seat doesn’t slide fore and aft to max out leg or cargo room.

And this is where my gripes begin. A premium brand like Acura should include surprise and delight features like heated seats in the back. Also, the rear seat backs should recline and have side impact airbags. There’s no power port or adjustable air vents either. It smacks of cost cutting.

Other misses? The interior windshield pillars are plastic, not wrapped in cloth. It’s fine that my tester does not have a panoramic roof, blind spot warning system, ventilated seats, or radar assisted cruise control, but in this class they should at least be offered. And they’re not.

Better Cargo Access

At least there’s a power hatch on the new MDX. The folks at Acura say the cargo hold is larger now and the trunk opening is significantly wider. Hefty handles on the side make it very easy to drop the seat backs. No power port or storage under the load floor. Good to see a spare tire, crossovers do end up on remote forest roads far away from roadside assistance. As far as cargo room goes, a Honda CR-V holds 12 bundles, the RDX with its sleeker silhouette takes on eight. And if you’ve watched the video and are wondering of there’s any way another can wedge in, it won’t. I’m a professional.

The 2013 model is an attractive rig with less severe lines. Acura has toned down the bionic beak across the board and it works well here, instantly announcing an Acura is heading your way without looking like an angry robot. It looks and feels like a smaller MDX, which is a good thing.

About the only major option left to buy on this Tech Package RDX are roof rails and cross bars (which will set you back $900).

And The Price Is…

RDX starts at $35,215 including destination for a front-drive model. This AWD Tech Package rig is $40,305. That’s a good deal. Comparably equipped, that’s thousands less than other luxury crossovers though remember, it doesn’t offer some of the super fancy tech the others get.

The 2013 RDX is a well done crossover that hits a broad sweet spot and it immediately impresses on a test drive. It’s only after a good hard look will shoppers find missing features, and that drops it from the luxury segment to the near-luxury category. While I firmly believe a lot of the doo-dads missing from the Acura’s option list are superfluous, many shoppers in this category will judge it by what’s not available. At the very least there should be an “advanced technology” package available for those who want it.

Mock overkill if you want but Acura needs more than “smart luxury”, it has to pack more wow into their cars if it wants to be seen as the equal to Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Infiniti and Cadillac. With RDX I’d settle for radar assisted cruise and panoramic roof. RDX is a very satisfying car at a good price point but without the next level of features it appears they aren’t trying as hard as the others. Modesty is an excellent quality in people, not luxury cars.
Old 04-16-2012, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Costco
Interesting, I figured the acceleration would improve but you're right, Honda uses a super tall 5th to begin with so there's not much improvement in that aspect...

I agree that 6AT and 7AT are ideal, though having rode along in an LS460, an 8AT doesn't seem excessive. I've also resigned to the idea that there's a point of diminishing returns when it comes to extra cogs. Dunno how they can make a 9AT work when a CVT makes more sense, though myself and many others can't get used to the feel of a CVT. I'm just glad Honda is implementing these technologies now. It's about time.

on a sidenote it would be interesting to see GM implement a 7MT transaxle in the next generation Corvette. If Porsche can make it work with a naturally aspirated H6 then I don't see why GM couldn't with an LS V8.
Actually I'm probably not in the position to comment on 8AT/9AT...as I have never sat in one to witness such system. I guess it depends on the programming, too. I have heard that some poorly programmed 8AT has problem deciding which gear to stay in and is constantly hunting for the right gear.

With 7MT, I wonder if people will start losing track of which gear they are in..lol.
Old 04-16-2012, 01:47 PM
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^ If you forget what gear you're in you shouldnt be driving a manual
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Old 04-16-2012, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by civicdrivr
^ If you forget what gear you're in you shouldnt be driving a manual
I guess I said it incorrectly...what I meant is, it will be a bit more difficult to choose which gear to take when approaching a corner. It's also more likely that during a longer turn, one might have to shift.
Old 04-16-2012, 06:03 PM
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Okay, saw the new RDX at the NY Autoshow yesterday. Definitely a big improvement over the current Generation. While I think Acura should do something then the current silver coporate trapezoid front grill, this is the first iteration of it that I've seen in person that looked pretty good and something I could definitely live with. It was also nice to see they cleaned up the interior (less buttons!!!) and have a power tailgate on the thing. Only downside I can see is, the fuel economy is still pretty low and premium requirement is a bummer.

I have to say, while the ILX is no sports enthusaist car, I have to say, it did look pretty nice as an entry level model into the Acura line up. The NSX concept was just great. My girlfriend even commented on how bitchin it was. That alone gives me some hope that Acura can pull themselves out of this slump their in.
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by iforyou
I guess I said it incorrectly...what I meant is, it will be a bit more difficult to choose which gear to take when approaching a corner. It's also more likely that during a longer turn, one might have to shift.
Once the driver has familiarized with the car, the engine, and the tranny characteristics, it'll become second nature when approaching and attacking whichever corner with the appropriate gear.
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Old 04-17-2012, 12:09 AM
  #1169  
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Just saw on Acura's website that the RDX displayed under the "RDX" tab doesn't have foglights.

And under "Accessories" it lists foglights. Someone again tell me why they aren't standard?
Old 04-19-2012, 07:21 AM
  #1170  
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For 2013 Acura has completely redesigned the RDX crossover to better compete with German luxury rivals. With a smoother, less bulbous design, a new engine, and better interior, the RDX is a more refined entry into this popular segment.

While the 2013 RDX uses the same platform as the 2012 model, it features all new sheet metal that looks more substantial. The hood now features a power dome, and the bulging fenders flow into the body lines. The rear tailgate has been smoothed out with some chrome trim accentuating the width of the rear. An integrated rear spoiler gives the rear end a clean, sporty look

Inside the RDX Acura has upgraded the materials with a soft touch dashboard and nice leather-like door trim. Metallic colored plastic trim and chrome help break up the cabin design and give it a bit of flair. The seats are comfortable with enough legroom in the rear for adults to sit comfortably. The cargo area is well packaged and features 2 handles to fold the rear seatbacks flat. This is definitely convenient when attempting to load larger items.

While many automakers are moving to smaller turbo 4-cylinder engines, Acura has given the 2013 RDX a 3.5-liter V-6, producing 273 horsepower and 251 pound-feet of torque. Power is handled by a six-speed automatic transmission with paddle shifters for those who want to shift for themselves. In front-wheel drive trim, the RDX is now rated by the EPA at 20 mpg in the city and 28 mpg on the highway. Adding all-wheel drive merely drops the fuel economy to 19 mpg in the city and 27 mpg on the highway.

Acura has finally made the RDX as fun to drive as the BMW X3, and has also increased its engine size while improving its fuel economy rating. At the end of the day the 2013 RDX is a sporty crossover with a refined ride and terrific features for a fair price.

For more information on the 2013 Acura RDX be sure to read our full review:


Overall Review: 7.4
All-new for 2013, the Acura RDX takes what was good about the previous model--its just-right size, nimble handling, and attractive design--and makes them better, while working on the rough spots. Those rough spots included a slightly too-rough ride, laggy power delivery paired with a balky transmission, and somewhat lackluster gas mileage. They're mostly smoothed over in the 2013 RDX.

It's not often that a car manufacturer gets so far out ahead of the curve that it's forced to retrace its steps, but in some ways, that's exactly what happened to the Acura RDX. Offered in turbo 4-cylinder form well before that was the happening thing in luxury vehicles, let alone crossovers, many eschewed the smaller Acura for the MDX or went to rival brands offering 6-cylinder models.

Fast forward a few years, and those rival brands are now bringing out their own turbocharged 4-cylinders and Acura has moved to a 273-horsepower 3.5-liter V-6 engine. While that might seem like a step backward, it's actually more fuel efficient, slightly more powerful (at peak) and noticeably smoother in its power delivery. All of those things make the move away from turbocharged small-displacement engines back to V-6 territory a sensible one, despite the shifting sands of the rest of the market. Fuel economy of the new V-6 picks up as much as 5 mpg highway over the previous 2012 RDX.

Behind the wheel, the new RDX feels nearly as peppy as the previous model off the line, though the surge of the 2012 model's turbo added some excitement that's not present in the linear power delivery of the new V-6--though that's not really a criticism. Under full throttle, the RDX willingly merges with speedy freeway traffic, readily passes 50-mph 2-lane slow pokes, and generally zips around like you'd expect a luxury crossover to do. It also handles the road well, absorbing big bumps with ease while remaining composed in windy sections. It owes this behavior to its new 2-stage dampers, which include a secondary floating piston that activates in certain driving conditions to control body motion and improve handling without sacrificing ride comfort.

The transmission, on the other hand, lags slightly behind driver inputs, particularly when a 2- or 3-gear downshift is required (hard acceleration from moderate speeds, as in passing), balking for just a moment before grabbing the gear and accelerating as desired. The issue was noticed in both all-wheel drive and front-wheel drive models, indicating it's not a problem of the on-demand distribution of torque to the rear wheels.

Exterior design of the 2013 RDX is slightly changed from the 2012 model, though not markedly so; the prominent grille is made slightly less noticeable, the fender arches are slightly more pronounced, and the overall design is smoother and more mature. Inside, the interior is all-new, with characteristic Acura high-tech style, but thankfully less reliance on bright, hard plastic elements and more soft-touch, matte-finish items. A preponderance of bright-finish chrome in the center stack is eye-catching, but clashes slightly with the look and makes sunny days a chore of avoiding reflected glare, seemingly catching the sun from every angle.

The cabin itself is quiet--very, quiet, in fact, and comfortable. Front-seat space is ample for even those over 6 feet tall, yet an 8-way power adjustable seat and tilt/telescoping steering column offer adjustability for most heights and body types.

Technology abounds, as you expect with Acura, undercutting the competition on the equipment available for the price--though you won't find some of the higher-end features BMW and Mercedes-Benz offer on the list of available upgrades, such as adaptive cruise control, blind spot monitoring, and parking assistance. What you will find, however, is standard dual-zone climate control, cruise control, keyless entry with push-button start, ambient lighting, a 7-speaker sound system with USB/MP3/Auxiliary support, Bluetooth handsfree calling, and more--all standard. An available Technology Package adds navigation with voice controls, real-time traffic and weather, a 10-speaker Acura/ELS audio system, GPS-linked climate control, SMS texting support, and Pandora app functionality.

Most of this technology comes off well, notably the excellent Acura/ELS audio system, which produces clear, enveloping sound even at very low volumes. The navigation system is relatively easy to use, and functions well, but the display--though high-resolution--looks a bit dated in comparison to the large, wide-aspect screens in BMWs and the sharp, color-coordinated displays from Audi.

As a crossover, it's not all about passenger comfort and tech goodies, however. There's also the matter of cargo space and utility--that's what sets it apart from an equivalently-priced sedan, after all. Here, the RDX is right in the zone for its compact crossover class, with 26.1 cubic feet of space behind the rear seats, 61.3 cubic feet with the seats folded flat, and 76.9 cubic feet including under-floor storage. Even so, it's aimed at younger pre-children couples and slightly older couples with children off to college, not so much at families, kids, and the attendant gear.


Interior/Exterior: 7
The Bottom Line:
While its styling will never be called bold, it will appeal to many with its understated and clean lines.

All-new for 2013, the Acura RDX has reinvented itself, with a similar but fresh exterior, a new interior, and a new purpose. No longer seeking the young professional male with a taste for a touch of sport with his crossover, the 2013 RDX is going after pre- and post-children couples.

The design reflects that, with a stylish but not flashy look that tones down the somewhat controversial bright grille. Smooth curves and sleek proportions give the RDX the look of a smaller vehicle in some ways, especially the arch of the glass along the roof line. More powerful fenders and a standard crossover ride height give a sense of off-road capability, though the RDX is no true SUV.

Inside, the RDX trades some of its flashier bits from the previous generation for more mature matte-finished items, though there's still chrome and shiny plastic to be found. The overall look is sculpted and modern, and rather car-like, without the claustrophobic wrap-around feeling some other sporty crossovers get.


Performance: 8
The Bottom Line:
The new V-6 engine replaces laggy turbo torque with smooth and linear power that highlights a well-handling chassis.

Once ahead of the game--perhaps too far ahead--with a turbocharged 4-cylinder engine in the RDX, Acura has made an about-face, offering only a 3.5-liter V-6 engine in the 2013 model.

The new engine is actually more powerful and more efficient, despite being a larger, normally aspirated V-6. While it gives up some of the torquey low-end feel of the previous turbo engine, as well as the sudden surge as boost builds, it's a much smoother, quieter, and more luxury-oriented combination. The 6-speed automatic transmission offers slick and easy shifts, though it will hesitate on multiple-gear downshifts when sudden acceleration is requested. Steering-wheel-mounted paddle shifters come standard.

In the corners, the 2013 RDX is less brittle and harsh than its predecessor, but it also exhibits more initial body roll. Once that first bit of roll has started, however, an ingenious new double-piston design engages, increasing damping force and making for a surprisingly capable crossover. Steering isn't perfect, being a bit over-light and vague at lower speeds, but it weights up nicely as speeds rise.

The all-wheel drive system for 2013 is no longer of the SH-AWD variety, but a simple automatic biasing system that delivers torque to the rear as front wheel slip is sensed, or as the angle of ascent changes.

Braking force is reduced with a new system that also shortens pedal stroke, and while it makes around-town driving easier, it takes away some of the feel and modulation in sportier driving.


Quality: 8
The Bottom Line:
Though it's compact in the second row, the 2013 RDX is comfy up front, with competitive cargo room and a quality interior.
Being up against the likes of the Audi Q5, BMW X3, and Lexus RX is a tough task for any vehicle--even those mentioned. All of them work to include the most technology, luxury, and quality in a compact crossover at a competitive price. Acura's RDX has its work cut out for it.

For 2013, the RDX makes some strides over the previous model in this regard, and some inroads against the competition as well, with a very competitive price. For a given dollar amount, chances are the RDX will be the best-equipped luxury crossover available. But there are some compromises.

The front seats are comfortable and relatively spacious, with enough adjustment to fit both taller and shorter passengers, though the length of the seat bottoms is a bit short for longer-legged drivers. The second row is more cramped, but still suitable for all but those in the 6-foot-plus club.

Materials are generally very good, equivalent to Lexus in most regards, and even BMW in many aspects, though plastic plays a more dominant role on the dash, and the fit and finish aren't quite as tight and tidy as the Audi Q5's. The cabin is well-laid-out, too, with cubbies and nooks for storage, ergonomically-placed controls (with the exception of the large central controller for the Acura navigation/infotainment unit on equipped models), and generally well-built, solid-feeling panels in all locations.

Ride quality has improved significantly over the previous RDX, and actually matches or exceeds even the BMW and Audi offerings, blending a smooth, comfortable ride over rougher roads with a capable and confident feeling in sportier moments. Noise, likewise, is very low--whether road, wind, or tire.


Safety: 7
The Bottom Line:
Official safety ratings haven't been released for the 2013 Acura RDX, but it offers a solid standard set of equipment.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) hasn't yet tested the 2013 Acura RDX, nor has the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS). The IIHS did test the 2012 model, however, rating it top marks of "good" in front and side-impact tests, but only "marginal" in roof strength. It remains to be seen if the 2013 model can improve on these results.

Standard safety equipment includes front, side, and side-curtain airbags, anti-lock brakes, stability and traction control, daytime running lights, a backup camera, and a rollover sensor to trigger appropriate airbags.


Features: 7
The Bottom Line:
Though it lacks some of the high-tech gadgets of the competition, the 2013 RDX delivers lots of bang for the buck.

For the 2013 Acura RDX, just 2 core variants are available: front-wheel drive and all-wheel drive. Both share the same basic standard equipment, though an optional Technology Package can be had with either.

While the RDX misses out on some of the latest high-tech gear even with the Technology Package (things like radar adaptive cruise control, night vision, and pedestrian detection), it does offer a strong base spec and a media-centric upgrade path.

All 2013 RDX models come standard with perforated leather seats, a CD/USB/iPod/satellite radio audio system, dual-zone climate control, keyless entry, pushbutton ignition, Bluetooth handsfree connectivity, and a multi-view rearview camera.

Upgrades in the Technology Package include: navigation with real-time traffic and weather, a 410-watt Acura/ELS surround sound system (which our editors highly recommend), voice recognition, remote power-operated liftgate, GPS-linked climate control, and Xenon HID headlights.


Fuel Economy/MPG: 7
The Bottom Line:
More efficient than the previous model and on par with the best in its class, the 2013 RDX is a fair choice for an efficient luxury crossover.

The EPA hasn't yet rated the 2013 Acura RDX, but Acura estimates the front-wheel drive model to achieve 20 mpg city, 28 mpg highway and 23 mpg combined. The all-wheel drive model is estimated at 19 mpg city, 27 mpg highway, and 22 mpg combined. Those figures put it on par with or ahead of the best luxury crossovers in its class, though still somewhat shy of a typical midsize luxury sedan.
Old 04-19-2012, 11:50 AM
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" Those figures put it on par with or ahead of the best luxury crossovers in its class, though still somewhat shy of a typical midsize luxury sedan."

lol...wtf...suv/cuv vs sedan.....seriously?
Old 04-20-2012, 02:49 AM
  #1172  
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^that's impressive

I just knew once Honda successfully implemented DI that they'd really go toe to toe with their competitors. I suspect they were worried about the carbon buildup issues that VW/Audi were encountering with their 2.0T engines, though I'm not sure exactly which ones... FSI or TSI? TFSI?

Do other manufacturers have issues with DI? Specifically, with naturally aspirated engines?
Old 04-20-2012, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Costco
^that's impressive

I just knew once Honda successfully implemented DI that they'd really go toe to toe with their competitors. I suspect they were worried about the carbon buildup issues that VW/Audi were encountering with their 2.0T engines, though I'm not sure exactly which ones... FSI or TSI? TFSI?

Do other manufacturers have issues with DI? Specifically, with naturally aspirated engines?
Most auto makers have already used DI in their modern engine lineups, namely BMW, Cadillac, Ford, Hyundai, Mazda, MB, Nissan/Infiniti, Toyota/Lexus, VW/Audi.

If carbon buildup is a major issue. It must be very widespread among the so many auto makers.

Honda/Acura is the only one behind. It is the only major auto maker that has yet to release a production DI engine to date.
Old 04-20-2012, 02:28 PM
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^^ This
Old 04-20-2012, 03:14 PM
  #1175  
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the Lexus DI 3.5L engine has avoided the carbon buildup issue. Though their DI 2.5L does have the carbon problem due to lack of port injection.
Old 04-20-2012, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Costco
^that's impressive

I just knew once Honda successfully implemented DI that they'd really go toe to toe with their competitors. I suspect they were worried about the carbon buildup issues that VW/Audi were encountering with their 2.0T engines, though I'm not sure exactly which ones... FSI or TSI? TFSI?

Do other manufacturers have issues with DI? Specifically, with naturally aspirated engines?
Ford EcoBoost from what I've read has major issue with carbon deposit build up. My friend's Mini Cooper S has issue on this too and recently spent CAD$4000 fixing it (it happened just after the warranty expired ).

Carbon buildup is common, but not exactly a major issue. I mean it's not a safety risk. It's not a reliability issue either. As long as you don't mind paying extra to have the engine cleaned once in a while, or if you don't mind losing power and fuel efficiency gradually, then it's not a big deal really.

Toyota has been able to minimize the issue with its D4-S system thanks to its combination of direct injection system and port injection system.
Old 04-20-2012, 03:50 PM
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Here's one article: http://www.dailytech.com/Direct+Inje...ticle21962.htm

Boyadijev said, "The loss of performance became very noticeable over time." Boyadijev took his RS 4 to a dyno to help document the problem. He reports that when the RS 4 has 15,000 miles on the clock it produced 324 all-wheel horsepower. At 20,000 miles, the same dyno showed 317 AWHP, and at another 5,000 miles, the car produced 305 AWHP.

That is hardly a direct conclusion that carbon build up is the cause of the shrinking power numbers. Anyone familiar with a dynamometer knows that there are a number of things that can affect how much power is read on a dyno including the gear the car is tested in, the heat and humidity on the day of testing, the fuel grade and quality, and even how snugly the car is strapped to the dyno rollers. There is also going to be a normal variance on each run of the dyno.


Boyadjiev said that he paid $1,200 to have the engine cleaned of carbon deposits and when the car went back to the same dyno it put down an extra 41 AWHP. Different engine designs are also having less of an issue with carbon build up so some of the issue lies with the engineers that design the motors."

Again, this is purely time/mileage related. You won't see a problem until some time later. By that time, the car maker already has your money.

Check out the photos here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4518993

Don't take my word for it, check it out yourself: https://www.google.ca/search?sourcei...de7793dde30a36
Old 04-20-2012, 04:13 PM
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You've been preaching that carbon build up issue as if it's something new. It's not.

And there are quite a few things you can do to prevent/minimize the build up as well as easier/cheaper way to clean up the parts.

The benefit of DI+Turbo+VVT far outweigh that minor issue.
Old 04-20-2012, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Costco
^that's impressive

I just knew once Honda successfully implemented DI that they'd really go toe to toe with their competitors. I suspect they were worried about the carbon buildup issues that VW/Audi were encountering with their 2.0T engines, though I'm not sure exactly which ones... FSI or TSI? TFSI?

Do other manufacturers have issues with DI? Specifically, with naturally aspirated engines?
Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post but you realize the RDX's engine doesn't have DI right?
Old 04-20-2012, 05:29 PM
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I think it's somewhere between 15-20% cars on the road in the U.S. are now DI.

Screaming about the early days of carbon build-up is water under the bridge.
Old 04-20-2012, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by dom
Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post but you realize the RDX's engine doesn't have DI right?
You understood me correctly

I skimmed over an RDX review mentioning direct injection... must have thought that the RDX had DI. Oops.

The things iforyou mentioned are exactly what I've worried about. I've looked into and preached for the potential of DI many times, though over time I began to see its downsides as well. Given thorough preventative measures (that few people follow) it is supposed to be preventable.
Old 04-20-2012, 06:55 PM
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Yes, it is no big deal, if you know about it in advance.

Usually the ones who talk about that as downside are the ones who have never dealt with these engines before.

Nobody really talks about this as an "issue" over at msf.org. If someone makes a new thread saying "omg is my DI engine going to be okay??? ive read about some horror stories about this carbon build up. im scared", people won't even respond back to them because it's stupid.

Last edited by JS + XES; 04-20-2012 at 06:57 PM.
Old 04-20-2012, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by JS + MS3
Yes, it is no big deal, if you know about it in advance.

Usually the ones who talk about that as downside are the ones who have never dealt with these engines before.
It's a problem because most drivers probably don't even know how fuel injection works, let alone how direct injection applications are more advantageous than the more widespread port injection.

It doesn't seem like something like this is covered under warranty nor is it something that dealers are commonly making warranty repairs on. For people who don't know about it, it could cost them a lot in the long run.
Old 04-20-2012, 07:09 PM
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People who don't know about this wouldn't really care about the performance loss that might be caused by the carbon build up.

I'm talking about the car enthusiasts like us. I don't usually really care about the average consumers.
Old 04-20-2012, 08:04 PM
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Never cared for DI, never will. Sounds like crap at idle.



Wouldn't say no to forced induction though.
Old 04-20-2012, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by JS + MS3
People who don't know about this wouldn't really care about the performance loss that might be caused by the carbon build up.

I'm talking about the car enthusiasts like us. I don't usually really care about the average consumers.
Agree.

When most car buyers can't tell between driving a FWD or RWD vehicle, they also can't tell the performance loss due to whatever built up inside their motors.
Old 04-21-2012, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by MTEAZY
Never cared for DI, never will. Sounds like crap at idle.
from experience when I worked at Kia, they only make noise warming up. It decreases dramatically after a mile. That said, I like DI, it saves fuel.
Old 04-21-2012, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Costco
You understood me correctly

I skimmed over an RDX review mentioning direct injection... must have thought that the RDX had DI. Oops.

The things iforyou mentioned are exactly what I've worried about. I've looked into and preached for the potential of DI many times, though over time I began to see its downsides as well. Given thorough preventative measures (that few people follow) it is supposed to be preventable.
The first Honda engine with DI will be the 13' Accord. Although it's now known whether it will be in the 2.4 or 3.5 or possibly both?
Old 04-21-2012, 07:52 PM
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Honda mentioned that DI will be used in the new generation EarthDream V6. But there is no info on whether there will be an EarthDream I4.

So it is likely that the 2.4L-I4 won't have DI.

Let's all keep our fingers crossed so that the DI V6 will finally see daylight.
Old 04-23-2012, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by JS + MS3
You've been preaching that carbon build up issue as if it's something new. It's not.

And there are quite a few things you can do to prevent/minimize the build up as well as easier/cheaper way to clean up the parts.

The benefit of DI+Turbo+VVT far outweigh that minor issue.
No, I'm not preaching as if carbon build up issue is something new. VW has a patent that discusses the problems a long time ago. Automakers have been trying to reduce the effects, but the issue still exists.

It's a minor issue for most automakers for sure. Like I said, automakers care about selling the vehicle to you. They only need to show you the best specs and features. And no doubt, DI+turbo+VVT will sell cars. That minor issue won't hurt sales. They also need to make sure everything is good for the whole warranty period. After that, it's your problem, not theirs.

Originally Posted by Costco
You understood me correctly

I skimmed over an RDX review mentioning direct injection... must have thought that the RDX had DI. Oops.

The things iforyou mentioned are exactly what I've worried about. I've looked into and preached for the potential of DI many times, though over time I began to see its downsides as well. Given thorough preventative measures (that few people follow) it is supposed to be preventable.
Yea, RDX doesn't have DI, hence its poor fuel efficiency (turbo without DI to increase compression ratio is no good). Automakers cannot prevent carbon deposit as far as I know. But like I said, it can be minimized. And every DI engine is different too (the rate of deposit build up). Toyota with its D4-S is probably the best in this field with its combination of direct injection & port injection. At the end of the day, additional maintenance is required as said by other posters to clean the engine, but it's not exactly cheap. Is it worth to spend extra $$ and time to clean for the extra 10% mpg and power? It's definitely up to the owner.

Anyways, Honda had DI with the 2001 (or 2003) Honda Stream. I think that was the first Honda with DI.

Originally Posted by JS + MS3
Yes, it is no big deal, if you know about it in advance.

Usually the ones who talk about that as downside are the ones who have never dealt with these engines before.

Nobody really talks about this as an "issue" over at msf.org. If someone makes a new thread saying "omg is my DI engine going to be okay??? ive read about some horror stories about this carbon build up. im scared", people won't even respond back to them because it's stupid.
Originally Posted by Costco
It's a problem because most drivers probably don't even know how fuel injection works, let alone how direct injection applications are more advantageous than the more widespread port injection.

It doesn't seem like something like this is covered under warranty nor is it something that dealers are commonly making warranty repairs on. For people who don't know about it, it could cost them a lot in the long run.
Originally Posted by JS + MS3
People who don't know about this wouldn't really care about the performance loss that might be caused by the carbon build up.

I'm talking about the car enthusiasts like us. I don't usually really care about the average consumers.
Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
Agree.

When most car buyers can't tell between driving a FWD or RWD vehicle, they also can't tell the performance loss due to whatever built up inside their motors.
lol it doesn't matter because they are average consumers and they don't know what direct injection is....good one...it's true though, people will have no idea why their cars are getting slower, why their cars seem to be less fuel efficient. They will just think the car is getting older and it's normal to have performance loss. This goes back to my first point, manufacturers also don't care as long as they got your money and you are happy when buying the car.

Originally Posted by MTEAZY
Never cared for DI, never will. Sounds like crap at idle.



Wouldn't say no to forced induction though.
Yea, haha, it sounds somewhat like a diesel engine at idle from outside of the car. Not a big deal to me though.

Originally Posted by dom
The first Honda engine with DI will be the 13' Accord. Although it's now known whether it will be in the 2.4 or 3.5 or possibly both?
It's the Honda Stream that came out 10 years ago that had the first Honda DI gasoline engine I believe.
Old 04-24-2012, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
Honda mentioned that DI will be used in the new generation EarthDream V6. But there is no info on whether there will be an EarthDream I4.

So it is likely that the 2.4L-I4 won't have DI.

Let's all keep our fingers crossed so that the DI V6 will finally see daylight.
Honda announced several versions of DI ED engines including a 1.8, 2.0, 2.4 and the 3.5. What we don't know is when they hit market.

More info
http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=1017152
Old 04-24-2012, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by iforyou
Yea, RDX doesn't have DI, hence its poor fuel efficiency (turbo without DI to increase compression
We're talking about the 2013 RDX.


It's the Honda Stream that came out 10 years ago that had the first Honda DI gasoline engine I believe.
Well ya, but first in NA and first that most folks around here will know about.
Old 04-25-2012, 01:02 AM
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Is the Stream still even using the DI engine?
Old 04-25-2012, 01:15 AM
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Did Honda experience any carbon issues with that Stream 10 years ago ?
Old 04-25-2012, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by civicdrivr
Is the Stream still even using the DI engine?
Nope. The 2g Stream that came out in 2007 is using the R18 and R20. The R20 replaces the K20B with direct injection found in the 1g Stream. The R20 according to Honda is more fuel efficient.

Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
Did Honda experience any carbon issues with that Stream 10 years ago ?
No idea. As the Stream is not available in NA, I am not sure where I can find info on this.

Here's the press release of that engine:
http://world.honda.com/news/2003/4031127.html

That engine was rated at 15km/L under the Japanese cycle back then. For comparison, the less sporty stream with the D17A was rated at 17km/L (127hp). Also keep in mind the D17A was mated to 4AT while the K20B with DI had 5AT. The gains in power and fuel efficiency were probably not enough to convince Honda to go with DI at that time (vs a 20 year-old D series engine with 4AT). Honda replaced the D series with R series and efficiency improved a lot even without DI.
Old 04-25-2012, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by iforyou

.....

That engine was rated at 15km/L under the Japanese cycle back then. For comparison, the less sporty stream with the D17A was rated at 17km/L (127hp). Also keep in mind the D17A was mated to 4AT while the K20B with DI had 5AT. The gains in power and fuel efficiency were probably not enough to convince Honda to go with DI at that time (vs a 20 year-old D series engine with 4AT). Honda replaced the D series with R series and efficiency improved a lot even without DI.
From the above info, it seemed that Honda didn't quite finish the entire R&D investigation. It didn't go far enough. It stopped short just with the D-series engine.

If Honda had implemented DI on the R-series engine, I bet that the efficiency of the R-series with DI would improve even more than just the plain R-series without DI, back then.
Old 04-26-2012, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
From the above info, it seemed that Honda didn't quite finish the entire R&D investigation. It didn't go far enough. It stopped short just with the D-series engine.

If Honda had implemented DI on the R-series engine, I bet that the efficiency of the R-series with DI would improve even more than just the plain R-series without DI, back then.
I think they weren't happy with what they saw and so they went back to it to do more R&D. If we can think of putting DI in R series, then I'm sure Honda had thought about that too. At the end of the day, they probably couldn't figure out how to squeeze out even more gains without adding significant cost. Or may be they were having carbon deposit issue and thought the initial benefit of having better mpg is not enough to offset the cost of cleaning the valves periodically. For instance, if you have to pay $300 extra to clean every 6 months, that would be $600 a year. You will need to save an extra $600 in fuel to justify the use of DI in this case. Let's say you spend $2000 on gas a year (using number from fueleconomy.gov, assuming 45% city driving, 15000 miles per year and current fuel prices). Typical DI gain in mpg is 10%. 10% of $2000 is $200. You save $200 in fuel cost, but need to spend $600 on cleaning your valves to MAINTAIN that 10% benefit. Even if you clean the valves every year (15000 miles), you are still spending $100 extra. And the thing is, if you are cleaning every 15000 miles, then by the end of those 15000 miles, your original 10% benefit is probably at 5% or something like that. So $100 extra cost of using DI is being conservative.

Also, the DI was implemented on the K series, which was a relatively new engine back then.

We know that Honda is going back with DI in their new ED engines, perhaps they are now confident with their grasp in DI technologies and are capable of minimizing the carbon deposit problem?
Old 01-21-2015, 10:57 AM
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Exclamation AutoNews


Coming off a record sales year as 1 of the best-selling SUVs in its segment, Acura's RDX is set to move its already lofty bar even higher when the new 2016 model bows at the Chicago Auto Show on February 12. The new RDX sports a long list of styling and performance improvements plus desirable new luxury and safety features designed to further solidify its leadership in the compact luxury SUV segment.

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Don't miss the debut of the newest Acura RDX at the Chicago Auto Show on Thursday, February 12, 2015 at 10:30 a.m. CST in the Acura booth.
Old 02-12-2015, 05:02 PM
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2016 Acura RDX arrives with freshened styling, powertrain enhancements








Originally Posted by Autoblog.com

2016 Acura RDX arrives with freshened styling, powertrain enhancements
Launched in 2012 for the 2013 model year, the second-generation RDX is hardly an old vehicle, and the luxury crossover is coming off its best sales year ever, according to Acura. Still, three years after the debut, the Japanese automaker is giving the CUV a thorough refresh with a facelift and bountiful new tech at the 2015 Chicago Auto Show, with sales set to kick off this spring.

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Acura offers a full line of precision crafted performance-luxury vehicles through a network of approximately 270 U.S. dealers. The Acura lineup features five distinctive models – the RLX luxury flagship sedan, the TLX performance luxury sedan, the ILX sport sedan, the 5-passenger RDX luxury crossover SUV, and the seven-passenger Acura MDX, America's all-time best-selling three-row luxury SUV. The next-generation Acura NSX mid-engine supercar will join the Acura lineup later this year. Acura was recently recognized by Edmunds.com for the third consecutive year as leading all luxury brands in retained value after five years of ownership.

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Consumer information about Acura is available at acura.com. To join the Acura community on Facebook, visit facebook.com/Acura. Additional media information including detailed features, pricing and high-resolution photography of the Acura model line is available at acuranews.com.
Old 02-12-2015, 05:46 PM
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Looks like it belongs. Looks fine. Could use a little less beak. Maybe in the next generation.


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