Acura: NSX News
#3401
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#3402
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#3403
The sizzle in the Steak
No way that's the dash.
If it is...then oof!
If it is...then oof!
#3406
6G TLX-S
NO....O....O...O...o..o........
#3408
Moderator
#3410
Whats up with RDX owners?
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#3411
Moderator
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Joneill44 (05-31-2013)
#3412
The sizzle in the Steak
It's clearly fake, as there is no start button located below the driver's right knee.
#3413
Whats up with RDX owners?
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#3414
Instructor
I don't really get how this new NSX is possible, horsepower wise. Most projections have it at around 450-500hp. How is this possible with a V6 and batteries in such a small space?
Lets say Honda manages to tune 350hp out of a naturally aspirated V6. Where in the hell are they going to put 100-150hp worth of batteries in that thing? Keep in mind the Prius battery makes 28hp, the Fusion Hybrid's battery makes 47hp. An all electric Ford Focus makes 140hp. Also keep in mind how large these cars are compared to the NSX. I'd be pleasantly surprised to see the electric part produce more than 40hp.
Lets say Honda manages to tune 350hp out of a naturally aspirated V6. Where in the hell are they going to put 100-150hp worth of batteries in that thing? Keep in mind the Prius battery makes 28hp, the Fusion Hybrid's battery makes 47hp. An all electric Ford Focus makes 140hp. Also keep in mind how large these cars are compared to the NSX. I'd be pleasantly surprised to see the electric part produce more than 40hp.
#3415
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I don't really get how this new NSX is possible, horsepower wise. Most projections have it at around 450-500hp. How is this possible with a V6 and batteries in such a small space?
Lets say Honda manages to tune 350hp out of a naturally aspirated V6. Where in the hell are they going to put 100-150hp worth of batteries in that thing? Keep in mind the Prius battery makes 28hp, the Fusion Hybrid's battery makes 47hp. An all electric Ford Focus makes 140hp. Also keep in mind how large these cars are compared to the NSX. I'd be pleasantly surprised to see the electric part produce more than 40hp.
Lets say Honda manages to tune 350hp out of a naturally aspirated V6. Where in the hell are they going to put 100-150hp worth of batteries in that thing? Keep in mind the Prius battery makes 28hp, the Fusion Hybrid's battery makes 47hp. An all electric Ford Focus makes 140hp. Also keep in mind how large these cars are compared to the NSX. I'd be pleasantly surprised to see the electric part produce more than 40hp.
Second, I've been told the V6 will again be a DOHC design with direct injection and reliable high revving. In addition, it's heavily rumored to be featuring some sort of electric turbocharging in addition to the hybrid aspect. So you're correct about the hybrid system not providing hundreds of horsepower. My guess is 100 hp or so but more importantly, instant torque and wheel control.
Lets say the engine with turbocharging produces 500 horsepower. Very feasible and probably a conservative estimate. Add 100 hp to that and you're looking at 600 or more. It would be nice if it were all under 3000 pounds..
GT-R -like power but 800 pounds lighter? I'm sold. If it had 650 hp and around 3100 pounds, you're looking at McLaren MP4-12 territory but less expensive and more economical (not that it really matters to an NSX buyer)
Last edited by Ken1997TL; 06-06-2013 at 04:00 PM.
#3416
Moderator
I don't really get how this new NSX is possible, horsepower wise. Most projections have it at around 450-500hp. How is this possible with a V6 and batteries in such a small space?
Lets say Honda manages to tune 350hp out of a naturally aspirated V6. Where in the hell are they going to put 100-150hp worth of batteries in that thing? Keep in mind the Prius battery makes 28hp, the Fusion Hybrid's battery makes 47hp. An all electric Ford Focus makes 140hp. Also keep in mind how large these cars are compared to the NSX. I'd be pleasantly surprised to see the electric part produce more than 40hp.
Lets say Honda manages to tune 350hp out of a naturally aspirated V6. Where in the hell are they going to put 100-150hp worth of batteries in that thing? Keep in mind the Prius battery makes 28hp, the Fusion Hybrid's battery makes 47hp. An all electric Ford Focus makes 140hp. Also keep in mind how large these cars are compared to the NSX. I'd be pleasantly surprised to see the electric part produce more than 40hp.
#3417
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My guess it will be a design similar to the 918 (Porsche 918 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) with multiple electric motors. It may even be that the NSX will have four electric motors (one dedicated to each wheel), if my memory serves me.
#3418
Moderator
#3419
Team Owner
I would still like to know Why Honda decided to put 3 battery in NSX instead of FI.
I think 3 battery would be a lot heavier than FI.
For better mpg? that is laughable for people who are going to spend $100k or $150k for it.
I think 3 battery would be a lot heavier than FI.
For better mpg? that is laughable for people who are going to spend $100k or $150k for it.
#3420
Instructor
First off, welcome to the forums
Second, I've been told the V6 will again be a DOHC design with direct injection and reliable high revving. In addition, it's heavily rumored to be featuring some sort of electric turbocharging in addition to the hybrid aspect. So you're correct about the hybrid system not providing hundreds of horsepower. My guess is 100 hp or so but more importantly, instant torque and wheel control.
Lets say the engine with turbocharging produces 500 horsepower. Very feasible and probably a conservative estimate. Add 100 hp to that and you're looking at 600 or more. It would be nice if it were all under 3000 pounds..
GT-R -like power but 800 pounds lighter? I'm sold. If it had 650 hp and around 3100 pounds, you're looking at McLaren MP4-12 territory but less expensive and more economical (not that it really matters to an NSX buyer)
Second, I've been told the V6 will again be a DOHC design with direct injection and reliable high revving. In addition, it's heavily rumored to be featuring some sort of electric turbocharging in addition to the hybrid aspect. So you're correct about the hybrid system not providing hundreds of horsepower. My guess is 100 hp or so but more importantly, instant torque and wheel control.
Lets say the engine with turbocharging produces 500 horsepower. Very feasible and probably a conservative estimate. Add 100 hp to that and you're looking at 600 or more. It would be nice if it were all under 3000 pounds..
GT-R -like power but 800 pounds lighter? I'm sold. If it had 650 hp and around 3100 pounds, you're looking at McLaren MP4-12 territory but less expensive and more economical (not that it really matters to an NSX buyer)
I suppose it makes sense if they demand super high peak power from the batteries. For example, Ford uses a 7kWh batt for their Fusion plug in and Porsche uses a 6kWh batt for their 918. Ford's batt puts out 46hp while Porsche's puts out 280hp. Porsche's battery clearly has less energy storage than the Ford, but I guess they just draw a much higher peak power from it. In turn this means the battery will discharge much more rapidly under use in the Porsche/Acura than it does in the Ford. I wonder if this shortens battery life. Also it seems in this case horsepower can vary wildly based on battery state of charge.
#3421
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It could be also be a radically new battery technology or super-capacitor
#3422
I shoot people
did someone say "capacitor"?
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ttribe (06-06-2013)
#3424
Moderator
#3425
For ~$100k or less I bet this thing will weigh 3200-3300 lbs. Fat chance it will be 3000 lbs, IMO. Still not bad, all things considering. The first gen NSX was around 2900 lbs IIRC.
We may be ultimately underrating the electric motors, who knows. They may pack a lot of power, just like how the LaFerrari's motors do.
We may be ultimately underrating the electric motors, who knows. They may pack a lot of power, just like how the LaFerrari's motors do.
#3426
Instructor
For ~$100k or less I bet this thing will weigh 3200-3300 lbs. Fat chance it will be 3000 lbs, IMO. Still not bad, all things considering. The first gen NSX was around 2900 lbs IIRC.
We may be ultimately underrating the electric motors, who knows. They may pack a lot of power, just like how the LaFerrari's motors do.
We may be ultimately underrating the electric motors, who knows. They may pack a lot of power, just like how the LaFerrari's motors do.
The bottleneck is the batteries though, not the electric motor.
#3427
Safety Car
Klaus
#3429
You'll Never Walk Alone
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I don't really get how this new NSX is possible, horsepower wise. Most projections have it at around 450-500hp. How is this possible with a V6 and batteries in such a small space?
Lets say Honda manages to tune 350hp out of a naturally aspirated V6. Where in the hell are they going to put 100-150hp worth of batteries in that thing? Keep in mind the Prius battery makes 28hp, the Fusion Hybrid's battery makes 47hp. An all electric Ford Focus makes 140hp. Also keep in mind how large these cars are compared to the NSX. I'd be pleasantly surprised to see the electric part produce more than 40hp.
Lets say Honda manages to tune 350hp out of a naturally aspirated V6. Where in the hell are they going to put 100-150hp worth of batteries in that thing? Keep in mind the Prius battery makes 28hp, the Fusion Hybrid's battery makes 47hp. An all electric Ford Focus makes 140hp. Also keep in mind how large these cars are compared to the NSX. I'd be pleasantly surprised to see the electric part produce more than 40hp.
I don't think the batteries make the horsepower. The electric motors do.
There will be three electric motors. One larger motor will power the rear wheels along with the engine. The other two motors will be driving the front wheels - one motor for the left front wheel, and one motor for the right front wheel.
The Accord hybrid has a 166hp motor. The Prius motor is good for 67hp (not 28hp). So having a powerful motor is not impossible at all. Honda can easily use a less powerful motor for the rear wheels that is much smaller.....80hp perhaps?
Each front motor as mentioned will power each front wheel. These front motors will be fairly small and lightweight as you can imagine there won't be much space up front in each wheel well. Each motor might make about 20-30hp. If I remember correctly, these motors will share some sort of capacitor instead of a battery pack. These motors aren't that powerful and probably don't need that much juice. Also, when the car is turning, one front motor will act as a motor powering the car, while the other motor will act as a generator (for torque vectoring) to help power the other front motor.
As you can see, from the motors above, you can have 80hp + 25hp + 25hp = 130hp.
As far as total output goes, the NSX will possibly be boosted. If so, 500hp from a turbocharged 3.7L V6 engine is very possible. Combining that engine with the motors can yield 600hp easily.
#3430
Senior Moderator
First off, welcome to the forums
Second, I've been told the V6 will again be a DOHC design with direct injection and reliable high revving. In addition, it's heavily rumored to be featuring some sort of electric turbocharging in addition to the hybrid aspect. So you're correct about the hybrid system not providing hundreds of horsepower. My guess is 100 hp or so but more importantly, instant torque and wheel control.
Lets say the engine with turbocharging produces 500 horsepower. Very feasible and probably a conservative estimate. Add 100 hp to that and you're looking at 600 or more. It would be nice if it were all under 3000 pounds..
GT-R -like power but 800 pounds lighter? I'm sold. If it had 650 hp and around 3100 pounds, you're looking at McLaren MP4-12 territory but less expensive and more economical (not that it really matters to an NSX buyer)
Second, I've been told the V6 will again be a DOHC design with direct injection and reliable high revving. In addition, it's heavily rumored to be featuring some sort of electric turbocharging in addition to the hybrid aspect. So you're correct about the hybrid system not providing hundreds of horsepower. My guess is 100 hp or so but more importantly, instant torque and wheel control.
Lets say the engine with turbocharging produces 500 horsepower. Very feasible and probably a conservative estimate. Add 100 hp to that and you're looking at 600 or more. It would be nice if it were all under 3000 pounds..
GT-R -like power but 800 pounds lighter? I'm sold. If it had 650 hp and around 3100 pounds, you're looking at McLaren MP4-12 territory but less expensive and more economical (not that it really matters to an NSX buyer)
#3431
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I don't really get how this new NSX is possible, horsepower wise. Most projections have it at around 450-500hp. How is this possible with a V6 and batteries in such a small space?
Lets say Honda manages to tune 350hp out of a naturally aspirated V6. Where in the hell are they going to put 100-150hp worth of batteries in that thing? Keep in mind the Prius battery makes 28hp, the Fusion Hybrid's battery makes 47hp. An all electric Ford Focus makes 140hp. Also keep in mind how large these cars are compared to the NSX. I'd be pleasantly surprised to see the electric part produce more than 40hp.
Lets say Honda manages to tune 350hp out of a naturally aspirated V6. Where in the hell are they going to put 100-150hp worth of batteries in that thing? Keep in mind the Prius battery makes 28hp, the Fusion Hybrid's battery makes 47hp. An all electric Ford Focus makes 140hp. Also keep in mind how large these cars are compared to the NSX. I'd be pleasantly surprised to see the electric part produce more than 40hp.
Just a lot of rumours really, nothing is concrete.
#3432
Race Director
All of this HP guestimation is of little use when it comes to the ultimate question - how will it perform? You could have a 1000HP electric motor but if it's only used to make useless wheelspin for 10s (cuz it will deplete the capacitor/battery that fast) then it is useless in overall performance.
#3433
Race Director
Everyone will be a lot better off expecting a lot less and be surprised when Honda over delivers, than expecting a "Supercar" (whatever that means) and be sorely disappointed when the final product has "only" 400+ HP.
#3434
Senior Moderator
Maybe I'm being overly optimistic but I just can't see Honda screwing this one up as well. The RLX is a mess made in Japan, this has both the Japanese and Americans involved so I'm expecting a great car, a car witout comprimise, like every other Acura seems to be these days. It doesn't "need" 650 HP but the reality is that it needs at least 550 or so to have an impact. That's the price of admission these days, look around.
#3436
Senior Moderator
I think we both know that HP isn't the only statistic a good sports car needs. But I also think we can agree that 400 isn't enough in this day and age of 600+ HP Corvettes and Mustangs. And if it does have 650, it wont be spanked by a whole lot. Lets be real.
My only gripe with this whole thing is that somehow the RLX AWD system will be good enough for this car. Again, lets be real.
My only gripe with this whole thing is that somehow the RLX AWD system will be good enough for this car. Again, lets be real.
Last edited by dom; 06-07-2013 at 04:46 PM.
#3437
Team Owner
I don't think the batteries make the horsepower. The electric motors do.
There will be three electric motors. One larger motor will power the rear wheels along with the engine. The other two motors will be driving the front wheels - one motor for the left front wheel, and one motor for the right front wheel.
The Accord hybrid has a 166hp motor. The Prius motor is good for 67hp (not 28hp). So having a powerful motor is not impossible at all. Honda can easily use a less powerful motor for the rear wheels that is much smaller.....80hp perhaps?
Each front motor as mentioned will power each front wheel. These front motors will be fairly small and lightweight as you can imagine there won't be much space up front in each wheel well. Each motor might make about 20-30hp. If I remember correctly, these motors will share some sort of capacitor instead of a battery pack. These motors aren't that powerful and probably don't need that much juice. Also, when the car is turning, one front motor will act as a motor powering the car, while the other motor will act as a generator (for torque vectoring) to help power the other front motor.
As you can see, from the motors above, you can have 80hp + 25hp + 25hp = 130hp.
As far as total output goes, the NSX will possibly be boosted. If so, 500hp from a turbocharged 3.7L V6 engine is very possible. Combining that engine with the motors can yield 600hp easily.
There will be three electric motors. One larger motor will power the rear wheels along with the engine. The other two motors will be driving the front wheels - one motor for the left front wheel, and one motor for the right front wheel.
The Accord hybrid has a 166hp motor. The Prius motor is good for 67hp (not 28hp). So having a powerful motor is not impossible at all. Honda can easily use a less powerful motor for the rear wheels that is much smaller.....80hp perhaps?
Each front motor as mentioned will power each front wheel. These front motors will be fairly small and lightweight as you can imagine there won't be much space up front in each wheel well. Each motor might make about 20-30hp. If I remember correctly, these motors will share some sort of capacitor instead of a battery pack. These motors aren't that powerful and probably don't need that much juice. Also, when the car is turning, one front motor will act as a motor powering the car, while the other motor will act as a generator (for torque vectoring) to help power the other front motor.
As you can see, from the motors above, you can have 80hp + 25hp + 25hp = 130hp.
As far as total output goes, the NSX will possibly be boosted. If so, 500hp from a turbocharged 3.7L V6 engine is very possible. Combining that engine with the motors can yield 600hp easily.
#3438
Race Director
Let's say the gas engine is rated at 400HP and each of the electric motors is rated at 80HP. Honda could claim on paper and market the thing as having 640 HP - yet because the electric motors are not really additive (and only work part time) the actual performance is no where near a 640 HP car and it might be beat by a 450 HP Stingray.
#3439
Instructor
I don't think the batteries make the horsepower. The electric motors do.
There will be three electric motors. One larger motor will power the rear wheels along with the engine. The other two motors will be driving the front wheels - one motor for the left front wheel, and one motor for the right front wheel.
The Accord hybrid has a 166hp motor. The Prius motor is good for 67hp (not 28hp). So having a powerful motor is not impossible at all. Honda can easily use a less powerful motor for the rear wheels that is much smaller.....80hp perhaps?
Each front motor as mentioned will power each front wheel. These front motors will be fairly small and lightweight as you can imagine there won't be much space up front in each wheel well. Each motor might make about 20-30hp. If I remember correctly, these motors will share some sort of capacitor instead of a battery pack. These motors aren't that powerful and probably don't need that much juice. Also, when the car is turning, one front motor will act as a motor powering the car, while the other motor will act as a generator (for torque vectoring) to help power the other front motor.
As you can see, from the motors above, you can have 80hp + 25hp + 25hp = 130hp.
As far as total output goes, the NSX will possibly be boosted. If so, 500hp from a turbocharged 3.7L V6 engine is very possible. Combining that engine with the motors can yield 600hp easily.
There will be three electric motors. One larger motor will power the rear wheels along with the engine. The other two motors will be driving the front wheels - one motor for the left front wheel, and one motor for the right front wheel.
The Accord hybrid has a 166hp motor. The Prius motor is good for 67hp (not 28hp). So having a powerful motor is not impossible at all. Honda can easily use a less powerful motor for the rear wheels that is much smaller.....80hp perhaps?
Each front motor as mentioned will power each front wheel. These front motors will be fairly small and lightweight as you can imagine there won't be much space up front in each wheel well. Each motor might make about 20-30hp. If I remember correctly, these motors will share some sort of capacitor instead of a battery pack. These motors aren't that powerful and probably don't need that much juice. Also, when the car is turning, one front motor will act as a motor powering the car, while the other motor will act as a generator (for torque vectoring) to help power the other front motor.
As you can see, from the motors above, you can have 80hp + 25hp + 25hp = 130hp.
As far as total output goes, the NSX will possibly be boosted. If so, 500hp from a turbocharged 3.7L V6 engine is very possible. Combining that engine with the motors can yield 600hp easily.
The batteries provide the power for the motors. So if we have a 6kWh battery and try to produce a continuous 200hp (150kW) from that 6kWh batt, the battery's going to last around 2 minutes before it's out of juice. I guess hybrid car manufacturers count on scenarios like that not happening very often.
To me this kind of system is genius and scam at the same time. It's genius in that we can utilize an electric motor's high efficiency (>90%) to create a lot of power and stuff the spec sheet with lofty hp ratings. It's a scam in that it's only as good as battery technology, and battery technology isn't very good, so this hp rating is really just based on peak ideal conditions and may only be good for minutes at a time before the batt needs to be recharged.
With a turbocharged V6 and batteries, I have a hard time seeing this NSX having the same reliability aspect as the first gen. But things are different these days and Honda's responding to the times we live in now, so it'll be interesting to see how things go.
#3440
Senior Moderator
The batteries provide the power for the motors. So if we have a 6kWh battery and try to produce a continuous 200hp (150kW) from that 6kWh batt, the battery's going to last around 2 minutes before it's out of juice. I guess hybrid car manufacturers count on scenarios like that not happening very often.
To me this kind of system is genius and scam at the same time. It's genius in that we can utilize an electric motor's high efficiency (>90%) to create a lot of power and stuff the spec sheet with lofty hp ratings. It's a scam in that it's only as good as battery technology, and battery technology isn't very good, so this hp rating is really just based on peak ideal conditions and may only be good for minutes at a time before the batt needs to be recharged.
With a turbocharged V6 and batteries, I have a hard time seeing this NSX having the same reliability aspect as the first gen. But things are different these days and Honda's responding to the times we live in now, so it'll be interesting to see how things go.
To me this kind of system is genius and scam at the same time. It's genius in that we can utilize an electric motor's high efficiency (>90%) to create a lot of power and stuff the spec sheet with lofty hp ratings. It's a scam in that it's only as good as battery technology, and battery technology isn't very good, so this hp rating is really just based on peak ideal conditions and may only be good for minutes at a time before the batt needs to be recharged.
With a turbocharged V6 and batteries, I have a hard time seeing this NSX having the same reliability aspect as the first gen. But things are different these days and Honda's responding to the times we live in now, so it'll be interesting to see how things go.
Now the thing to be concerned about is if Honda/Acura use it right, and not just give us a RLX 310hp 3.5 v6 and slap this system on it for 400hp.
Last edited by fsttyms1; 06-08-2013 at 07:51 AM.