Acura: Development and Technology News
02-18-2008, 06:25 PM
#961
Suzuka Master
I can't wait to see the demolition of the next generation TL.
02-18-2008, 06:49 PM
#964
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Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
First shot - the TSX. It is identical to the European Accord sans the "Acura signature" grill. It will take 5 years for the next brand new (full-model-change) TSX to come out. Now talk about Acura-only vehicles. We won't be able to see the full effect for a long, long time.
02-18-2008, 06:56 PM
#965
Moderator Alumnus
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I think this is 76th time I read about this "shift" coming at Acura and about the millionth time saying we will be up there with the rest top tier manufacturers.
Dont these people understand that this business is a 4-5 year cycle business? A decision you make now will affect vehicles 4 years of now, if you are quick, 6 years if you are just modest.
Dont these people understand that this business is a 4-5 year cycle business? A decision you make now will affect vehicles 4 years of now, if you are quick, 6 years if you are just modest.
02-18-2008, 07:19 PM
#967
Suzuka Master
I would honestly take a EX-L V6 NAVI MT sedan 8th generation Accord over the new RL.
02-18-2008, 07:35 PM
#968
Moderator Alumnus
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Btw from the Chicago Auto Show I visited last Wed. The RL looks even worse live than on the pics and the RDX at this point has nothing in common exterior-design-wise with anything ales in the brand. It looks like a one-off. Like the design team was not part of Acura when they designed it. Proof of they have no strategy and no teamwork whatsoever design-wise. They dont know what they want to do with this brand.
They would not let us sit in the RL. Huge mistake IMO. Even Porsche opened the doors of a 911 Cabrio 4S this year which is the first time I remember Porsche let anyone sit in a 911 in any auto show ever. Btw, the quality of "my door test" on the 911 cabrio (which is ONE measure of how well the car is put together according to me), showed that the 911 is slightly better put together than a Mustang which is the worse made car on the show this year.
The RL is well made however. As expected.
Changing the subject again, overall from the show, I am seeing signs of Toyota getting tired and sloppy, Hyundai having great expectations from themselves and high ambition, GM finally on the right track, but still a lot of work to be done (the CTS' interior is a disappointment), the CX9 being the vehicle for only those that know what's happening in the industry without caring about brand name. The CX7 having nothing to do with the CX9 quality-wise, the G37 coupe showing its age already (not even out yet for God's sake) and the way it's put together is sub-par ("you get what you pay for" totally applies in this case). However gettin in an M35/45 and you think the two are not made by the same company. Porsche having no wow factor whatsoever on the exterior design at all at this point. The new Evo and STIs being a complete dissapoitment from a design, quality inside and out. And considering their price, added weight, they are completely not worth their money now. Audi showing tons of signs of a top tier lux maker now. The 09 A4 looks top notch, the TT is a hidden gem, so is the A3, the somehow find ways to up the quality of their interiors and everything is made with top notch attention to detail. Even the mother company VW is getting better. The interior of a Passat at this point is better than anything Infiniti has to offer. I sat in a Lexus LS for 5 minutes with the doors closed. When I got out, the ambient noise of the show felt extremely annoying for about 10 min. when I got used to it again. That thing is a vault! The L version has enough rear legroom for me to have my legs crossed at 6 feet tall while my 6.4 foot tall friend was comfortably sitting in front. Pontiac is still trying to figure out who they want to be. The G8's interior and absolutely a complete dissapointment. This thing needs to be re-done yesterday! The overall vehicle's quality is sub par and Lutz needs to be fired just because he tried to twice and failed. This was the biggest dissapointment of the show for me. And they dare to say BMW was their target! Ford as we all know is living on a different planet, but they have lots of ambition on paper. We'll see. Honda did well with the Accords but the Civic needs an update now. The Corolla looks like it's done by a very tired team that is over trying. The Genesis by Hyundai is a gem but it should have been ready last year not next year, that's two years off. Only to show the Americans where they should be or what they should be surpassing rather. Chrylser is almost on the same planet Ford is living. As many bad things I can say about Lucerne and LaCross, the outside grill and overall refresh made those cars look acceptable. The MINI's interior was made by someone who was trying to make things as difficult as possible for the driver and passengers. On purpose. However the Clubman shows to everyone selling cars in America how space can be taken advantage of. In other words, you dont need a 5+ meter long vehicle to have 4 adults fell comfortable inside. Europeans know this and we should be receiving lessons from them. 30 years ago that is. Jeep needs to be deleted. Volvo has a hidden gem, it's called the C30. But they need to have more knowledgable people working there (as probably all manufacturers do), I asked the British born and raised lady if this car has the same engine as in the Focus ST in Europe, she said no, we have completely different engines than Ford Europe. Sure and I was born on Mars. Mercedes is...well Mercedes. The S Class is another vault. THe E needs to be redon and CLK needs to be redone, like 3 years ago. I know the new one is coming but it's about half a generation too late. The M3 sedan looks too tame. The M3 coupe already looks dated. Yeap. The X6 looks odd. It looks like someone tried to make the second half of the car as weird looking as possible. On purpose. Too big of a vehicle and the 4.4L V8 sounds too large when you consider they added two turbos to it. I am sure they could have gotten by with 3.7 liters and made better gas consumption out of it. I now read that they are preparing another odd looking vehicle based on the next gen. 5er, called the PAS. Where would that fit and why is it needed? The Traverse looks great from the outside. Chevy's interiors gotten acceptable now. Even the HHR SS feels good from the inside. Extremely comfortable seats in that thing. The XF looks good from the outside, they would not let us sit inside but they had the windows open. This vehicle looks promising. I hear 10000 people have put money down in the USA. Let's see what happens. The XK8 is too long of a car for two people. Even for capitalists. The LFA needs to stop been showed at auto shows. Enough already with 36 years of showing something different every year as a concept. Like you guys are preparing the car of the century! Like people are waiting in line to see the LFA from Lexus, like it's a game changer. Lexus shows to be cocky with this vehicle and it's not like them at all. The GT-R looks like a substantial vehicle live and the design is great. The F150 is OK but the design is poorly done I believe. Getting into the current Eclipse reminds us why Mitsu came close to extinction in the USA. From sitting in the new Lancer, it looks like they have not learned their lesson. They are just trying hard enough, just to exist. That's what they tell me. Hidden gems are the Vibe and Matrix, but even more with the case of the Vibe! It looks very substantial for its price and it's a good example of what we need more of. See below. Also the Scions look and feel great. the xB is a very serious vehicle at this point. Sit in that thing and you feel there is enough room for a soccer team in there. The quality is there and now they have a nice engine to go with the light body. This is what we need more of. Smart, innovative design. More like Europe in principle, but better, cos we can afford better over here. The Routan is a question mark. Outside it looks good and nothing like a Chrysler. Even inside. But when you know it's a Chrysler undreneath and engine-wise, you wonder. Of course Chrysler is more reliable than VW so...it's all a matter of how one likes the hardware in the end. And Chrysler, if there is one thing they know, it's minivans. So it may have been a good idea from VW to do this, however it's a huge risk. PLus they show how desperate they are for American market share. Finally they bit the bullet and decided on a plant here. It should have been done 6 years ago. Like in the case of super-business-smart BMW. The Challenger looks like something completely NOT special. Total waste of developers' time. This thing will only sell well in the first 9 to 18 months. After that it's over. The Murano looks like they tried too hard from the outside, but it's a great vehicle overall. Well made inside and out.
Overall what these manufacturers need to understand is that we need smaller vehicles from the outside that are lighter so they need less power to move and hence consume less gas, but vehicles that take advantage of every square interior inch to add as much interior soom as possible. And of course we need tech that will consume less gas or something cheaper than gas. Whatever that is.
Shww, can I be more off topic?...
They would not let us sit in the RL. Huge mistake IMO. Even Porsche opened the doors of a 911 Cabrio 4S this year which is the first time I remember Porsche let anyone sit in a 911 in any auto show ever. Btw, the quality of "my door test" on the 911 cabrio (which is ONE measure of how well the car is put together according to me), showed that the 911 is slightly better put together than a Mustang which is the worse made car on the show this year.
The RL is well made however. As expected.
Changing the subject again, overall from the show, I am seeing signs of Toyota getting tired and sloppy, Hyundai having great expectations from themselves and high ambition, GM finally on the right track, but still a lot of work to be done (the CTS' interior is a disappointment), the CX9 being the vehicle for only those that know what's happening in the industry without caring about brand name. The CX7 having nothing to do with the CX9 quality-wise, the G37 coupe showing its age already (not even out yet for God's sake) and the way it's put together is sub-par ("you get what you pay for" totally applies in this case). However gettin in an M35/45 and you think the two are not made by the same company. Porsche having no wow factor whatsoever on the exterior design at all at this point. The new Evo and STIs being a complete dissapoitment from a design, quality inside and out. And considering their price, added weight, they are completely not worth their money now. Audi showing tons of signs of a top tier lux maker now. The 09 A4 looks top notch, the TT is a hidden gem, so is the A3, the somehow find ways to up the quality of their interiors and everything is made with top notch attention to detail. Even the mother company VW is getting better. The interior of a Passat at this point is better than anything Infiniti has to offer. I sat in a Lexus LS for 5 minutes with the doors closed. When I got out, the ambient noise of the show felt extremely annoying for about 10 min. when I got used to it again. That thing is a vault! The L version has enough rear legroom for me to have my legs crossed at 6 feet tall while my 6.4 foot tall friend was comfortably sitting in front. Pontiac is still trying to figure out who they want to be. The G8's interior and absolutely a complete dissapointment. This thing needs to be re-done yesterday! The overall vehicle's quality is sub par and Lutz needs to be fired just because he tried to twice and failed. This was the biggest dissapointment of the show for me. And they dare to say BMW was their target! Ford as we all know is living on a different planet, but they have lots of ambition on paper. We'll see. Honda did well with the Accords but the Civic needs an update now. The Corolla looks like it's done by a very tired team that is over trying. The Genesis by Hyundai is a gem but it should have been ready last year not next year, that's two years off. Only to show the Americans where they should be or what they should be surpassing rather. Chrylser is almost on the same planet Ford is living. As many bad things I can say about Lucerne and LaCross, the outside grill and overall refresh made those cars look acceptable. The MINI's interior was made by someone who was trying to make things as difficult as possible for the driver and passengers. On purpose. However the Clubman shows to everyone selling cars in America how space can be taken advantage of. In other words, you dont need a 5+ meter long vehicle to have 4 adults fell comfortable inside. Europeans know this and we should be receiving lessons from them. 30 years ago that is. Jeep needs to be deleted. Volvo has a hidden gem, it's called the C30. But they need to have more knowledgable people working there (as probably all manufacturers do), I asked the British born and raised lady if this car has the same engine as in the Focus ST in Europe, she said no, we have completely different engines than Ford Europe. Sure and I was born on Mars. Mercedes is...well Mercedes. The S Class is another vault. THe E needs to be redon and CLK needs to be redone, like 3 years ago. I know the new one is coming but it's about half a generation too late. The M3 sedan looks too tame. The M3 coupe already looks dated. Yeap. The X6 looks odd. It looks like someone tried to make the second half of the car as weird looking as possible. On purpose. Too big of a vehicle and the 4.4L V8 sounds too large when you consider they added two turbos to it. I am sure they could have gotten by with 3.7 liters and made better gas consumption out of it. I now read that they are preparing another odd looking vehicle based on the next gen. 5er, called the PAS. Where would that fit and why is it needed? The Traverse looks great from the outside. Chevy's interiors gotten acceptable now. Even the HHR SS feels good from the inside. Extremely comfortable seats in that thing. The XF looks good from the outside, they would not let us sit inside but they had the windows open. This vehicle looks promising. I hear 10000 people have put money down in the USA. Let's see what happens. The XK8 is too long of a car for two people. Even for capitalists. The LFA needs to stop been showed at auto shows. Enough already with 36 years of showing something different every year as a concept. Like you guys are preparing the car of the century! Like people are waiting in line to see the LFA from Lexus, like it's a game changer. Lexus shows to be cocky with this vehicle and it's not like them at all. The GT-R looks like a substantial vehicle live and the design is great. The F150 is OK but the design is poorly done I believe. Getting into the current Eclipse reminds us why Mitsu came close to extinction in the USA. From sitting in the new Lancer, it looks like they have not learned their lesson. They are just trying hard enough, just to exist. That's what they tell me. Hidden gems are the Vibe and Matrix, but even more with the case of the Vibe! It looks very substantial for its price and it's a good example of what we need more of. See below. Also the Scions look and feel great. the xB is a very serious vehicle at this point. Sit in that thing and you feel there is enough room for a soccer team in there. The quality is there and now they have a nice engine to go with the light body. This is what we need more of. Smart, innovative design. More like Europe in principle, but better, cos we can afford better over here. The Routan is a question mark. Outside it looks good and nothing like a Chrysler. Even inside. But when you know it's a Chrysler undreneath and engine-wise, you wonder. Of course Chrysler is more reliable than VW so...it's all a matter of how one likes the hardware in the end. And Chrysler, if there is one thing they know, it's minivans. So it may have been a good idea from VW to do this, however it's a huge risk. PLus they show how desperate they are for American market share. Finally they bit the bullet and decided on a plant here. It should have been done 6 years ago. Like in the case of super-business-smart BMW. The Challenger looks like something completely NOT special. Total waste of developers' time. This thing will only sell well in the first 9 to 18 months. After that it's over. The Murano looks like they tried too hard from the outside, but it's a great vehicle overall. Well made inside and out.
Overall what these manufacturers need to understand is that we need smaller vehicles from the outside that are lighter so they need less power to move and hence consume less gas, but vehicles that take advantage of every square interior inch to add as much interior soom as possible. And of course we need tech that will consume less gas or something cheaper than gas. Whatever that is.
Shww, can I be more off topic?...
02-18-2008, 07:42 PM
#969
I feel the need...
Phew, I had to take a highlighter to break up your 4000 word paragraph.
Overall, being in Motown and surrounded by engineers and car guys, I think most of your observations are spot on. It will be interesting to see how things play out over the next few years in the face of economic headwinds, higher oil prices, emerging tech (hybrid/diesel/fuel cell/etc...)
Bottom line, it's a great time to be a car consumer - choices abound. CAFE will soon bring an end to the party.
Overall, being in Motown and surrounded by engineers and car guys, I think most of your observations are spot on. It will be interesting to see how things play out over the next few years in the face of economic headwinds, higher oil prices, emerging tech (hybrid/diesel/fuel cell/etc...)
Bottom line, it's a great time to be a car consumer - choices abound. CAFE will soon bring an end to the party.
02-18-2008, 07:55 PM
#970
6G TLX-S
Originally Posted by Fibonacci
Surely, I'm not defending Honda's choices and I agree with pretty much all the criticism stated above, but we need to put everything in context.
Car enthusiasts are in the minority. Based on Honda's sales trends, they probably feel like they are making the correct choices in their line-up.
Car enthusiasts are in the minority. Based on Honda's sales trends, they probably feel like they are making the correct choices in their line-up.
This is no car enthusiasts' desires. This is all bout the Acura brand which dictates how expensive it can price its models. It is very obvious that Honda is concern about the Acura brand not being perceived as a true luxury brand. That's why Acura officials have all these talks about "matching Maybach" and "tier 1 luxury" shits. The Acura line is simply not having the right choice of vehicles in it's past and current line-up.
02-18-2008, 08:05 PM
#971
I feel the need...
Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
You missed the point.
I'm simply saying that Honda as a stand alone company has brilliant engineering, but are slow to follow other full-model manufacturers because they don't have the some financial resources. As consumers, we all want our cake and to eat it too.
I certainly echo the criticism that they've neglected the two greatest cars in their short history: NSX and S2k. They've also been too slow in ramping up a true "luxury" marque.
BUT, having said those things, in the face of the new energy confined world that we are facing, they are probably better positioned than anyone.
02-18-2008, 10:08 PM
#973
Fahrvergnügen'd
Originally Posted by gavriil off his Adderall
Btw from the Chicago Auto Show I visited last Wed:
The RL looks even worse live than on the pics and the RDX at this point has nothing in common exterior-design-wise with anything ales in the brand. It looks like a one-off. Like the design team was not part of Acura when they designed it. Proof of they have no strategy and no teamwork whatsoever design-wise. They dont know what they want to do with this brand.
They would not let us sit in the RL. Huge mistake IMO. Even Porsche opened the doors of a 911 Cabrio 4S this year which is the first time I remember Porsche let anyone sit in a 911 in any auto show ever. Btw, the quality of "my door test" on the 911 cabrio (which is ONE measure of how well the car is put together according to me), showed that the 911 is slightly better put together than a Mustang which is the worse made car on the show this year.
The RL is well made however. As expected.
Changing the subject again, overall from the show, I am seeing signs of Toyota getting tired and sloppy, Hyundai having great expectations from themselves and high ambition, GM finally on the right track, but still a lot of work to be done (the CTS' interior is a disappointment), the CX9 being the vehicle for only those that know what's happening in the industry without caring about brand name. The CX7 having nothing to do with the CX9 quality-wise, the G37 coupe showing its age already (not even out yet for God's sake) and the way it's put together is sub-par ("you get what you pay for" totally applies in this case).
However getting in an M35/45 and you think the two are not made by the same company. Porsche having no wow factor whatsoever on the exterior design at all at this point. The new Evo and STIs being a complete dissapoitment from a design, quality inside and out. And considering their price, added weight, they are completely not worth their money now.
Audi showing tons of signs of a top tier lux maker now. The 09 A4 looks top notch, the TT is a hidden gem, so is the A3, the somehow find ways to up the quality of their interiors and everything is made with top notch attention to detail. Even the mother company VW is getting better. The interior of a Passat at this point is better than anything Infiniti has to offer.
I sat in a Lexus LS for 5 minutes with the doors closed. When I got out, the ambient noise of the show felt extremely annoying for about 10 min. when I got used to it again. That thing is a vault! The L version has enough rear legroom for me to have my legs crossed at 6 feet tall while my 6.4 foot tall friend was comfortably sitting in front. Pontiac is still trying to figure out who they want to be.
The G8's interior and absolutely a complete dissapointment. This thing needs to be re-done yesterday! The overall vehicle's quality is sub par and Lutz needs to be fired just because he tried to twice and failed. This was the biggest dissapointment of the show for me. And they dare to say BMW was their target!
Ford as we all know is living on a different planet, but they have lots of ambition on paper. We'll see.
Honda did well with the Accords but the Civic needs an update now.
The Corolla looks like it's done by a very tired team that is over trying.
The Genesis by Hyundai is a gem but it should have been ready last year not next year, that's two years off. Only to show the Americans where they should be or what they should be surpassing rather.
Chrylser is almost on the same planet Ford is living. As many bad things I can say about Lucerne and LaCross, the outside grill and overall refresh made those cars look acceptable.
The MINI's interior was made by someone who was trying to make things as difficult as possible for the driver and passengers. On purpose. However the Clubman shows to everyone selling cars in America how space can be taken advantage of. In other words, you dont need a 5+ meter long vehicle to have 4 adults fell comfortable inside. Europeans know this and we should be receiving lessons from them. 30 years ago that is.
Jeep needs to be deleted.
Volvo has a hidden gem, it's called the C30. But they need to have more knowledgable people working there (as probably all manufacturers do), I asked the British born and raised lady if this car has the same engine as in the Focus ST in Europe, she said no, we have completely different engines than Ford Europe. Sure and I was born on Mars.
Mercedes is...well Mercedes. The S Class is another vault. THe E needs to be redon and CLK needs to be redone, like 3 years ago. I know the new one is coming but it's about half a generation too late.
The M3 sedan looks too tame. The M3 coupe already looks dated. Yeap. The X6 looks odd. It looks like someone tried to make the second half of the car as weird looking as possible. On purpose. Too big of a vehicle and the 4.4L V8 sounds too large when you consider they added two turbos to it. I am sure they could have gotten by with 3.7 liters and made better gas consumption out of it. I now read that they are preparing another odd looking vehicle based on the next gen. 5er, called the PAS. Where would that fit and why is it needed?
The Traverse looks great from the outside. Chevy's interiors gotten acceptable now. Even the HHR SS feels good from the inside. Extremely comfortable seats in that thing.
The XF looks good from the outside, they would not let us sit inside but they had the windows open. This vehicle looks promising. I hear 10000 people have put money down in the USA. Let's see what happens. The XK8 is too long of a car for two people. Even for capitalists.
The LFA needs to stop been showed at auto shows. Enough already with 36 years of showing something different every year as a concept. Like you guys are preparing the car of the century! Like people are waiting in line to see the LFA from Lexus, like it's a game changer. Lexus shows to be cocky with this vehicle and it's not like them at all.
The GT-R looks like a substantial vehicle live and the design is great.
The F150 is OK but the design is poorly done I believe.
Getting into the current Eclipse reminds us why Mitsu came close to extinction in the USA. From sitting in the new Lancer, it looks like they have not learned their lesson. They are just trying hard enough, just to exist. That's what they tell me.
Hidden gems are the Vibe and Matrix, but even more with the case of the Vibe! It looks very substantial for its price and it's a good example of what we need more of. See below.
Also the Scions look and feel great. the xB is a very serious vehicle at this point. Sit in that thing and you feel there is enough room for a soccer team in there. The quality is there and now they have a nice engine to go with the light body. This is what we need more of. Smart, innovative design. More like Europe in principle, but better, cos we can afford better over here.
The Routan is a question mark. Outside it looks good and nothing like a Chrysler. Even inside. But when you know it's a Chrysler undreneath and engine-wise, you wonder. Of course Chrysler is more reliable than VW so...it's all a matter of how one likes the hardware in the end. And Chrysler, if there is one thing they know, it's minivans. So it may have been a good idea from VW to do this, however it's a huge risk. PLus they show how desperate they are for American market share. Finally they bit the bullet and decided on a plant here. It should have been done 6 years ago. Like in the case of super-business-smart BMW.
The Challenger looks like something completely NOT special. Total waste of developers' time. This thing will only sell well in the first 9 to 18 months. After that it's over.
The Murano looks like they tried too hard from the outside, but it's a great vehicle overall. Well made inside and out.
Overall what these manufacturers need to understand is that we need smaller vehicles from the outside that are lighter so they need less power to move and hence consume less gas, but vehicles that take advantage of every square interior inch to add as much interior soom as possible. And of course we need tech that will consume less gas or something cheaper than gas. Whatever that is.
Shww, can I be more off topic?...
The RL looks even worse live than on the pics and the RDX at this point has nothing in common exterior-design-wise with anything ales in the brand. It looks like a one-off. Like the design team was not part of Acura when they designed it. Proof of they have no strategy and no teamwork whatsoever design-wise. They dont know what they want to do with this brand.
They would not let us sit in the RL. Huge mistake IMO. Even Porsche opened the doors of a 911 Cabrio 4S this year which is the first time I remember Porsche let anyone sit in a 911 in any auto show ever. Btw, the quality of "my door test" on the 911 cabrio (which is ONE measure of how well the car is put together according to me), showed that the 911 is slightly better put together than a Mustang which is the worse made car on the show this year.
The RL is well made however. As expected.
Changing the subject again, overall from the show, I am seeing signs of Toyota getting tired and sloppy, Hyundai having great expectations from themselves and high ambition, GM finally on the right track, but still a lot of work to be done (the CTS' interior is a disappointment), the CX9 being the vehicle for only those that know what's happening in the industry without caring about brand name. The CX7 having nothing to do with the CX9 quality-wise, the G37 coupe showing its age already (not even out yet for God's sake) and the way it's put together is sub-par ("you get what you pay for" totally applies in this case).
However getting in an M35/45 and you think the two are not made by the same company. Porsche having no wow factor whatsoever on the exterior design at all at this point. The new Evo and STIs being a complete dissapoitment from a design, quality inside and out. And considering their price, added weight, they are completely not worth their money now.
Audi showing tons of signs of a top tier lux maker now. The 09 A4 looks top notch, the TT is a hidden gem, so is the A3, the somehow find ways to up the quality of their interiors and everything is made with top notch attention to detail. Even the mother company VW is getting better. The interior of a Passat at this point is better than anything Infiniti has to offer.
I sat in a Lexus LS for 5 minutes with the doors closed. When I got out, the ambient noise of the show felt extremely annoying for about 10 min. when I got used to it again. That thing is a vault! The L version has enough rear legroom for me to have my legs crossed at 6 feet tall while my 6.4 foot tall friend was comfortably sitting in front. Pontiac is still trying to figure out who they want to be.
The G8's interior and absolutely a complete dissapointment. This thing needs to be re-done yesterday! The overall vehicle's quality is sub par and Lutz needs to be fired just because he tried to twice and failed. This was the biggest dissapointment of the show for me. And they dare to say BMW was their target!
Ford as we all know is living on a different planet, but they have lots of ambition on paper. We'll see.
Honda did well with the Accords but the Civic needs an update now.
The Corolla looks like it's done by a very tired team that is over trying.
The Genesis by Hyundai is a gem but it should have been ready last year not next year, that's two years off. Only to show the Americans where they should be or what they should be surpassing rather.
Chrylser is almost on the same planet Ford is living. As many bad things I can say about Lucerne and LaCross, the outside grill and overall refresh made those cars look acceptable.
The MINI's interior was made by someone who was trying to make things as difficult as possible for the driver and passengers. On purpose. However the Clubman shows to everyone selling cars in America how space can be taken advantage of. In other words, you dont need a 5+ meter long vehicle to have 4 adults fell comfortable inside. Europeans know this and we should be receiving lessons from them. 30 years ago that is.
Jeep needs to be deleted.
Volvo has a hidden gem, it's called the C30. But they need to have more knowledgable people working there (as probably all manufacturers do), I asked the British born and raised lady if this car has the same engine as in the Focus ST in Europe, she said no, we have completely different engines than Ford Europe. Sure and I was born on Mars.
Mercedes is...well Mercedes. The S Class is another vault. THe E needs to be redon and CLK needs to be redone, like 3 years ago. I know the new one is coming but it's about half a generation too late.
The M3 sedan looks too tame. The M3 coupe already looks dated. Yeap. The X6 looks odd. It looks like someone tried to make the second half of the car as weird looking as possible. On purpose. Too big of a vehicle and the 4.4L V8 sounds too large when you consider they added two turbos to it. I am sure they could have gotten by with 3.7 liters and made better gas consumption out of it. I now read that they are preparing another odd looking vehicle based on the next gen. 5er, called the PAS. Where would that fit and why is it needed?
The Traverse looks great from the outside. Chevy's interiors gotten acceptable now. Even the HHR SS feels good from the inside. Extremely comfortable seats in that thing.
The XF looks good from the outside, they would not let us sit inside but they had the windows open. This vehicle looks promising. I hear 10000 people have put money down in the USA. Let's see what happens. The XK8 is too long of a car for two people. Even for capitalists.
The LFA needs to stop been showed at auto shows. Enough already with 36 years of showing something different every year as a concept. Like you guys are preparing the car of the century! Like people are waiting in line to see the LFA from Lexus, like it's a game changer. Lexus shows to be cocky with this vehicle and it's not like them at all.
The GT-R looks like a substantial vehicle live and the design is great.
The F150 is OK but the design is poorly done I believe.
Getting into the current Eclipse reminds us why Mitsu came close to extinction in the USA. From sitting in the new Lancer, it looks like they have not learned their lesson. They are just trying hard enough, just to exist. That's what they tell me.
Hidden gems are the Vibe and Matrix, but even more with the case of the Vibe! It looks very substantial for its price and it's a good example of what we need more of. See below.
Also the Scions look and feel great. the xB is a very serious vehicle at this point. Sit in that thing and you feel there is enough room for a soccer team in there. The quality is there and now they have a nice engine to go with the light body. This is what we need more of. Smart, innovative design. More like Europe in principle, but better, cos we can afford better over here.
The Routan is a question mark. Outside it looks good and nothing like a Chrysler. Even inside. But when you know it's a Chrysler undreneath and engine-wise, you wonder. Of course Chrysler is more reliable than VW so...it's all a matter of how one likes the hardware in the end. And Chrysler, if there is one thing they know, it's minivans. So it may have been a good idea from VW to do this, however it's a huge risk. PLus they show how desperate they are for American market share. Finally they bit the bullet and decided on a plant here. It should have been done 6 years ago. Like in the case of super-business-smart BMW.
The Challenger looks like something completely NOT special. Total waste of developers' time. This thing will only sell well in the first 9 to 18 months. After that it's over.
The Murano looks like they tried too hard from the outside, but it's a great vehicle overall. Well made inside and out.
Overall what these manufacturers need to understand is that we need smaller vehicles from the outside that are lighter so they need less power to move and hence consume less gas, but vehicles that take advantage of every square interior inch to add as much interior soom as possible. And of course we need tech that will consume less gas or something cheaper than gas. Whatever that is.
Shww, can I be more off topic?...
02-18-2008, 10:14 PM
#974
@ AdderallI think I'll actually read the whole thing now
02-18-2008, 10:33 PM
#975
Fahrvergnügen'd
Oddly, I disagreed with many of your observations ... And agreed with many others.
I think the C30 is a miss. It's not worth the premium over a Mazdaspeed3. It's attractive outside but the interior comes off as way too austere and then there's the 215hp.
Agree on Audi on all points. Stuns me about Porsche. They make a killing on their cars. Why are they cutting corners?
Jeep and Pontiac need to go. I don't think that in my lifetime I've ever actually gone to a Chrysler/Dodge dealer to look at buying a new car.
Ford doesn't have a single car or truck I'm interested in ... in the States.
The XF is impressive in every way but it's VERY small. Apologies to Nissan but I felt like it was a four-door sports car. Which is fine but I think my expectation was that it was bigger. I didn't get to sit behind the wheel unfortunately. It was rather popular amongst the sheeple.
I think the 335i coupe is a wonderfully executed design that will age every bit as well as the E46 before it (which still looks good. As does the E36).
The GT-R does look substantial. Gigantic ... For a sports car it looks like it's about 6/5ths the size it needs to be.
Scion is irrelevant to me. Mitsubishi's Endeavor is actually a nice SUV. I've driven it a couple times as a rental. Everything else, including the Evo is of no interest to me.
I really like the CX-9 and were I looking at a SUV, I would go to Mazda first.
I agree about the CTS. I thought the design of the interior was fine ... Attractive but several choices about key spots made me question the attention to detail this car deserves. The silver looks great until you realize that it's going to be mauled in the first three months because of all the movement around the gear shifter ... The car at the DC auto show already had signs of wear around the center console.
I think the C30 is a miss. It's not worth the premium over a Mazdaspeed3. It's attractive outside but the interior comes off as way too austere and then there's the 215hp.
Agree on Audi on all points. Stuns me about Porsche. They make a killing on their cars. Why are they cutting corners?
Jeep and Pontiac need to go. I don't think that in my lifetime I've ever actually gone to a Chrysler/Dodge dealer to look at buying a new car.
Ford doesn't have a single car or truck I'm interested in ... in the States.
The XF is impressive in every way but it's VERY small. Apologies to Nissan but I felt like it was a four-door sports car. Which is fine but I think my expectation was that it was bigger. I didn't get to sit behind the wheel unfortunately. It was rather popular amongst the sheeple.
I think the 335i coupe is a wonderfully executed design that will age every bit as well as the E46 before it (which still looks good. As does the E36).
The GT-R does look substantial. Gigantic ... For a sports car it looks like it's about 6/5ths the size it needs to be.
Scion is irrelevant to me. Mitsubishi's Endeavor is actually a nice SUV. I've driven it a couple times as a rental. Everything else, including the Evo is of no interest to me.
I really like the CX-9 and were I looking at a SUV, I would go to Mazda first.
I agree about the CTS. I thought the design of the interior was fine ... Attractive but several choices about key spots made me question the attention to detail this car deserves. The silver looks great until you realize that it's going to be mauled in the first three months because of all the movement around the gear shifter ... The car at the DC auto show already had signs of wear around the center console.
02-18-2008, 10:56 PM
#976
Originally Posted by gavriil
Overall what these manufacturers need to understand is that we need smaller vehicles from the outside that are lighter so they need less power to move and hence consume less gas, but vehicles that take advantage of every square interior inch to add as much interior soom as possible. And of course we need tech that will consume less gas or something cheaper than gas. Whatever that is.
and I could not agree more that the trend towards ever larger vehicles is the wrong direction.
this symbolizes the lip service Acura has been dishing out - it has no relation to reality.
02-19-2008, 06:40 AM
#979
Safety Car
Another Article
MotorAuthority
Apart from Lexus, Japanese luxury brands still pale in comparison to their German rivals in terms of the number of models they produce and the prices they can command. As demand for premium cars continues skywards, execs at carmakers like Infiniti and Acura are becoming more eager to get their piece of the pie. Earlier today we reported about Infiniti looking at launching a new halo model based on Nissan’s GT-R and now we have reports of Acura dealers getting ready for a “huge shift” that will see the brand move closer to tier 1 luxury brands such as Lexus, BMW and Mercedes-Benz.
Speaking at a recent dealer seminar, Ed Voyles Auto Group CEO Valerie Voyles said “there will be a huge shift toward tier 1 next year, and the dealer body is excited about that shift.” According to Voyles, the shift will come about by the launch of several new models including cars that are unique to the Acura brand instead of just being rebadged Honda models.
The first of these new models include the recently revealed RL and TSX sedans, reports Automotive News. These will be followed soon after by a new TL model and eventually a new NSX supercar. Another problem Acura suffers from is a lack of badge-cred. To overcome this, officials have established a separate R&D team from Honda as well as a new Acura racing team that’s competing in the American Le Mans Series.
If Acura is really serious about competing with brands like BMW and Mercedes it will need to expand its lineup beyond the sedan segment and will also require more premium options such as RWD powertrains and high-output engines.
02-19-2008, 07:11 AM
#980
Suzuka Master
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Originally Posted by gavriil
the G37 coupe showing its age already (not even out yet for God's sake) and the way it's put together is sub-par ("you get what you pay for" totally applies in this case).
02-19-2008, 07:24 AM
#981
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Sly Raskal
As for gaining newer customers, you're gonna be playing catch up when at one point you were one of the leaders. 
I think the new "Advance" campaign kinda sums it up... If you want all kinds of tech gadgets, than buy an acura, but if you're looking for a purpose built luxury sport vehicle, then move on to another manufacturer
02-19-2008, 07:26 AM
#982
Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
and I could not agree more that the trend towards ever larger vehicles is the wrong direction.
Maybe I'm "ole skool", but I like bigger cars (e-class size). Plus, I'm 6'2. I can't see myself in anything smaller than my TL.
02-19-2008, 07:49 AM
#983
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Mansa24
Maybe I'm "ole skool", but I like bigger cars (e-class size). Plus, I'm 6'2. I can't see myself in anything smaller than my TL.
02-19-2008, 09:18 AM
#986
Oderint dum metuant.
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Originally Posted by TSX69
The first of these new models include the recently revealed RL and TSX sedans, reports Automotive News. These will be followed soon after by a new TL model and eventually a new NSX supercar.
If Acura is really serious about competing with brands like BMW and Mercedes it will need to expand its lineup beyond the sedan segment and will also require more premium options such as RWD powertrains and high-output engines.
02-19-2008, 09:30 AM
#987
Originally Posted by Mansa24
Maybe I'm "ole skool", but I like bigger cars (e-class size). Plus, I'm 6'2. I can't see myself in anything smaller than my TL.
Perhaps it just comes from my experience being crammed in a tiny little racing bucket with everything just a quick movement away but I like smaller cars. I like vehicles that fit like a glove and are light and responsive. I really don't want a car that is larger or heavier than the TSX if I can avoid it. Seems like that is going to be a pipe dream though...
02-19-2008, 09:37 AM
#988
Changin bulbs since '73
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Originally Posted by mikeschicagoRL
1.No coupe.
2.No convertible.
3.No real flagship sedan.
4.No real sports model.
5.No engine options AT ALL.
A long way to go to really advance.
2.No convertible.
3.No real flagship sedan.
4.No real sports model.
5.No engine options AT ALL.
A long way to go to really advance.
jeez u don't know how bad it is until you see it written out!
02-19-2008, 09:44 AM
#990
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Originally Posted by gavriil
Btw from the Chicago Auto Show I visited last Wed. The RL looks even worse live than on the pics and the RDX at this point has nothing in common exterior-design-wise with anything ales in the brand. It looks like a one-off. Like the design team was not part of Acura when they designed it. Proof of they have no strategy and no teamwork whatsoever design-wise. They dont know what they want to do with this brand.
They would not let us sit in the RL. Huge mistake IMO. Even Porsche opened the doors of a 911 Cabrio 4S this year which is the first time I remember Porsche let anyone sit in a 911 in any auto show ever. Btw, the quality of "my door test" on the 911 cabrio (which is ONE measure of how well the car is put together according to me), showed that the 911 is slightly better put together than a Mustang which is the worse made car on the show this year.
The RL is well made however. As expected.
Changing the subject again, overall from the show, I am seeing signs of Toyota getting tired and sloppy, Hyundai having great expectations from themselves and high ambition, GM finally on the right track, but still a lot of work to be done (the CTS' interior is a disappointment), the CX9 being the vehicle for only those that know what's happening in the industry without caring about brand name. The CX7 having nothing to do with the CX9 quality-wise, the G37 coupe showing its age already (not even out yet for God's sake) and the way it's put together is sub-par ("you get what you pay for" totally applies in this case). However gettin in an M35/45 and you think the two are not made by the same company. Porsche having no wow factor whatsoever on the exterior design at all at this point. The new Evo and STIs being a complete dissapoitment from a design, quality inside and out. And considering their price, added weight, they are completely not worth their money now. Audi showing tons of signs of a top tier lux maker now. The 09 A4 looks top notch, the TT is a hidden gem, so is the A3, the somehow find ways to up the quality of their interiors and everything is made with top notch attention to detail. Even the mother company VW is getting better. The interior of a Passat at this point is better than anything Infiniti has to offer. I sat in a Lexus LS for 5 minutes with the doors closed. When I got out, the ambient noise of the show felt extremely annoying for about 10 min. when I got used to it again. That thing is a vault! The L version has enough rear legroom for me to have my legs crossed at 6 feet tall while my 6.4 foot tall friend was comfortably sitting in front. Pontiac is still trying to figure out who they want to be. The G8's interior and absolutely a complete dissapointment. This thing needs to be re-done yesterday! The overall vehicle's quality is sub par and Lutz needs to be fired just because he tried to twice and failed. This was the biggest dissapointment of the show for me. And they dare to say BMW was their target! Ford as we all know is living on a different planet, but they have lots of ambition on paper. We'll see. Honda did well with the Accords but the Civic needs an update now. The Corolla looks like it's done by a very tired team that is over trying. The Genesis by Hyundai is a gem but it should have been ready last year not next year, that's two years off. Only to show the Americans where they should be or what they should be surpassing rather. Chrylser is almost on the same planet Ford is living. As many bad things I can say about Lucerne and LaCross, the outside grill and overall refresh made those cars look acceptable. The MINI's interior was made by someone who was trying to make things as difficult as possible for the driver and passengers. On purpose. However the Clubman shows to everyone selling cars in America how space can be taken advantage of. In other words, you dont need a 5+ meter long vehicle to have 4 adults fell comfortable inside. Europeans know this and we should be receiving lessons from them. 30 years ago that is. Jeep needs to be deleted. Volvo has a hidden gem, it's called the C30. But they need to have more knowledgable people working there (as probably all manufacturers do), I asked the British born and raised lady if this car has the same engine as in the Focus ST in Europe, she said no, we have completely different engines than Ford Europe. Sure and I was born on Mars. Mercedes is...well Mercedes. The S Class is another vault. THe E needs to be redon and CLK needs to be redone, like 3 years ago. I know the new one is coming but it's about half a generation too late. The M3 sedan looks too tame. The M3 coupe already looks dated. Yeap. The X6 looks odd. It looks like someone tried to make the second half of the car as weird looking as possible. On purpose. Too big of a vehicle and the 4.4L V8 sounds too large when you consider they added two turbos to it. I am sure they could have gotten by with 3.7 liters and made better gas consumption out of it. I now read that they are preparing another odd looking vehicle based on the next gen. 5er, called the PAS. Where would that fit and why is it needed? The Traverse looks great from the outside. Chevy's interiors gotten acceptable now. Even the HHR SS feels good from the inside. Extremely comfortable seats in that thing. The XF looks good from the outside, they would not let us sit inside but they had the windows open. This vehicle looks promising. I hear 10000 people have put money down in the USA. Let's see what happens. The XK8 is too long of a car for two people. Even for capitalists. The LFA needs to stop been showed at auto shows. Enough already with 36 years of showing something different every year as a concept. Like you guys are preparing the car of the century! Like people are waiting in line to see the LFA from Lexus, like it's a game changer. Lexus shows to be cocky with this vehicle and it's not like them at all. The GT-R looks like a substantial vehicle live and the design is great. The F150 is OK but the design is poorly done I believe. Getting into the current Eclipse reminds us why Mitsu came close to extinction in the USA. From sitting in the new Lancer, it looks like they have not learned their lesson. They are just trying hard enough, just to exist. That's what they tell me. Hidden gems are the Vibe and Matrix, but even more with the case of the Vibe! It looks very substantial for its price and it's a good example of what we need more of. See below. Also the Scions look and feel great. the xB is a very serious vehicle at this point. Sit in that thing and you feel there is enough room for a soccer team in there. The quality is there and now they have a nice engine to go with the light body. This is what we need more of. Smart, innovative design. More like Europe in principle, but better, cos we can afford better over here. The Routan is a question mark. Outside it looks good and nothing like a Chrysler. Even inside. But when you know it's a Chrysler undreneath and engine-wise, you wonder. Of course Chrysler is more reliable than VW so...it's all a matter of how one likes the hardware in the end. And Chrysler, if there is one thing they know, it's minivans. So it may have been a good idea from VW to do this, however it's a huge risk. PLus they show how desperate they are for American market share. Finally they bit the bullet and decided on a plant here. It should have been done 6 years ago. Like in the case of super-business-smart BMW. The Challenger looks like something completely NOT special. Total waste of developers' time. This thing will only sell well in the first 9 to 18 months. After that it's over. The Murano looks like they tried too hard from the outside, but it's a great vehicle overall. Well made inside and out.
Overall what these manufacturers need to understand is that we need smaller vehicles from the outside that are lighter so they need less power to move and hence consume less gas, but vehicles that take advantage of every square interior inch to add as much interior soom as possible. And of course we need tech that will consume less gas or something cheaper than gas. Whatever that is.
Shww, can I be more off topic?...
They would not let us sit in the RL. Huge mistake IMO. Even Porsche opened the doors of a 911 Cabrio 4S this year which is the first time I remember Porsche let anyone sit in a 911 in any auto show ever. Btw, the quality of "my door test" on the 911 cabrio (which is ONE measure of how well the car is put together according to me), showed that the 911 is slightly better put together than a Mustang which is the worse made car on the show this year.
The RL is well made however. As expected.
Changing the subject again, overall from the show, I am seeing signs of Toyota getting tired and sloppy, Hyundai having great expectations from themselves and high ambition, GM finally on the right track, but still a lot of work to be done (the CTS' interior is a disappointment), the CX9 being the vehicle for only those that know what's happening in the industry without caring about brand name. The CX7 having nothing to do with the CX9 quality-wise, the G37 coupe showing its age already (not even out yet for God's sake) and the way it's put together is sub-par ("you get what you pay for" totally applies in this case). However gettin in an M35/45 and you think the two are not made by the same company. Porsche having no wow factor whatsoever on the exterior design at all at this point. The new Evo and STIs being a complete dissapoitment from a design, quality inside and out. And considering their price, added weight, they are completely not worth their money now. Audi showing tons of signs of a top tier lux maker now. The 09 A4 looks top notch, the TT is a hidden gem, so is the A3, the somehow find ways to up the quality of their interiors and everything is made with top notch attention to detail. Even the mother company VW is getting better. The interior of a Passat at this point is better than anything Infiniti has to offer. I sat in a Lexus LS for 5 minutes with the doors closed. When I got out, the ambient noise of the show felt extremely annoying for about 10 min. when I got used to it again. That thing is a vault! The L version has enough rear legroom for me to have my legs crossed at 6 feet tall while my 6.4 foot tall friend was comfortably sitting in front. Pontiac is still trying to figure out who they want to be. The G8's interior and absolutely a complete dissapointment. This thing needs to be re-done yesterday! The overall vehicle's quality is sub par and Lutz needs to be fired just because he tried to twice and failed. This was the biggest dissapointment of the show for me. And they dare to say BMW was their target! Ford as we all know is living on a different planet, but they have lots of ambition on paper. We'll see. Honda did well with the Accords but the Civic needs an update now. The Corolla looks like it's done by a very tired team that is over trying. The Genesis by Hyundai is a gem but it should have been ready last year not next year, that's two years off. Only to show the Americans where they should be or what they should be surpassing rather. Chrylser is almost on the same planet Ford is living. As many bad things I can say about Lucerne and LaCross, the outside grill and overall refresh made those cars look acceptable. The MINI's interior was made by someone who was trying to make things as difficult as possible for the driver and passengers. On purpose. However the Clubman shows to everyone selling cars in America how space can be taken advantage of. In other words, you dont need a 5+ meter long vehicle to have 4 adults fell comfortable inside. Europeans know this and we should be receiving lessons from them. 30 years ago that is. Jeep needs to be deleted. Volvo has a hidden gem, it's called the C30. But they need to have more knowledgable people working there (as probably all manufacturers do), I asked the British born and raised lady if this car has the same engine as in the Focus ST in Europe, she said no, we have completely different engines than Ford Europe. Sure and I was born on Mars. Mercedes is...well Mercedes. The S Class is another vault. THe E needs to be redon and CLK needs to be redone, like 3 years ago. I know the new one is coming but it's about half a generation too late. The M3 sedan looks too tame. The M3 coupe already looks dated. Yeap. The X6 looks odd. It looks like someone tried to make the second half of the car as weird looking as possible. On purpose. Too big of a vehicle and the 4.4L V8 sounds too large when you consider they added two turbos to it. I am sure they could have gotten by with 3.7 liters and made better gas consumption out of it. I now read that they are preparing another odd looking vehicle based on the next gen. 5er, called the PAS. Where would that fit and why is it needed? The Traverse looks great from the outside. Chevy's interiors gotten acceptable now. Even the HHR SS feels good from the inside. Extremely comfortable seats in that thing. The XF looks good from the outside, they would not let us sit inside but they had the windows open. This vehicle looks promising. I hear 10000 people have put money down in the USA. Let's see what happens. The XK8 is too long of a car for two people. Even for capitalists. The LFA needs to stop been showed at auto shows. Enough already with 36 years of showing something different every year as a concept. Like you guys are preparing the car of the century! Like people are waiting in line to see the LFA from Lexus, like it's a game changer. Lexus shows to be cocky with this vehicle and it's not like them at all. The GT-R looks like a substantial vehicle live and the design is great. The F150 is OK but the design is poorly done I believe. Getting into the current Eclipse reminds us why Mitsu came close to extinction in the USA. From sitting in the new Lancer, it looks like they have not learned their lesson. They are just trying hard enough, just to exist. That's what they tell me. Hidden gems are the Vibe and Matrix, but even more with the case of the Vibe! It looks very substantial for its price and it's a good example of what we need more of. See below. Also the Scions look and feel great. the xB is a very serious vehicle at this point. Sit in that thing and you feel there is enough room for a soccer team in there. The quality is there and now they have a nice engine to go with the light body. This is what we need more of. Smart, innovative design. More like Europe in principle, but better, cos we can afford better over here. The Routan is a question mark. Outside it looks good and nothing like a Chrysler. Even inside. But when you know it's a Chrysler undreneath and engine-wise, you wonder. Of course Chrysler is more reliable than VW so...it's all a matter of how one likes the hardware in the end. And Chrysler, if there is one thing they know, it's minivans. So it may have been a good idea from VW to do this, however it's a huge risk. PLus they show how desperate they are for American market share. Finally they bit the bullet and decided on a plant here. It should have been done 6 years ago. Like in the case of super-business-smart BMW. The Challenger looks like something completely NOT special. Total waste of developers' time. This thing will only sell well in the first 9 to 18 months. After that it's over. The Murano looks like they tried too hard from the outside, but it's a great vehicle overall. Well made inside and out.
Overall what these manufacturers need to understand is that we need smaller vehicles from the outside that are lighter so they need less power to move and hence consume less gas, but vehicles that take advantage of every square interior inch to add as much interior soom as possible. And of course we need tech that will consume less gas or something cheaper than gas. Whatever that is.
Shww, can I be more off topic?...
02-19-2008, 11:01 AM
#992
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Loseit
jeez u don't know how bad it is until you see it written out!
...although technically speaking, the TL has an engine option.
02-19-2008, 11:07 AM
#993
Senior Moderator
Of course. And in a few days, Acura will announce that Aston Martin is their benchmark for car beauty. Yup.
02-19-2008, 11:43 AM
#994
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Originally Posted by charliemike
No offense Gav, I just broke it up to make it readable because I respect your opinion and many might skip interesting observations.
No worries.
02-19-2008, 11:47 AM
#995
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Originally Posted by charliemike
Oddly, I disagreed with many of your observations ... And agreed with many others.
I think the C30 is a miss. It's not worth the premium over a Mazdaspeed3. It's attractive outside but the interior comes off as way too austere and then there's the 215hp.
Agree on Audi on all points. Stuns me about Porsche. They make a killing on their cars. Why are they cutting corners?
Jeep and Pontiac need to go. I don't think that in my lifetime I've ever actually gone to a Chrysler/Dodge dealer to look at buying a new car.
Ford doesn't have a single car or truck I'm interested in ... in the States.
The XF is impressive in every way but it's VERY small. Apologies to Nissan but I felt like it was a four-door sports car. Which is fine but I think my expectation was that it was bigger. I didn't get to sit behind the wheel unfortunately. It was rather popular amongst the sheeple.
I think the 335i coupe is a wonderfully executed design that will age every bit as well as the E46 before it (which still looks good. As does the E36).
The GT-R does look substantial. Gigantic ... For a sports car it looks like it's about 6/5ths the size it needs to be.
Scion is irrelevant to me. Mitsubishi's Endeavor is actually a nice SUV. I've driven it a couple times as a rental. Everything else, including the Evo is of no interest to me.
I really like the CX-9 and were I looking at a SUV, I would go to Mazda first.
I agree about the CTS. I thought the design of the interior was fine ... Attractive but several choices about key spots made me question the attention to detail this car deserves. The silver looks great until you realize that it's going to be mauled in the first three months because of all the movement around the gear shifter ... The car at the DC auto show already had signs of wear around the center console.
I think the C30 is a miss. It's not worth the premium over a Mazdaspeed3. It's attractive outside but the interior comes off as way too austere and then there's the 215hp.
Agree on Audi on all points. Stuns me about Porsche. They make a killing on their cars. Why are they cutting corners?
Jeep and Pontiac need to go. I don't think that in my lifetime I've ever actually gone to a Chrysler/Dodge dealer to look at buying a new car.
Ford doesn't have a single car or truck I'm interested in ... in the States.
The XF is impressive in every way but it's VERY small. Apologies to Nissan but I felt like it was a four-door sports car. Which is fine but I think my expectation was that it was bigger. I didn't get to sit behind the wheel unfortunately. It was rather popular amongst the sheeple.
I think the 335i coupe is a wonderfully executed design that will age every bit as well as the E46 before it (which still looks good. As does the E36).
The GT-R does look substantial. Gigantic ... For a sports car it looks like it's about 6/5ths the size it needs to be.
Scion is irrelevant to me. Mitsubishi's Endeavor is actually a nice SUV. I've driven it a couple times as a rental. Everything else, including the Evo is of no interest to me.
I really like the CX-9 and were I looking at a SUV, I would go to Mazda first.
I agree about the CTS. I thought the design of the interior was fine ... Attractive but several choices about key spots made me question the attention to detail this car deserves. The silver looks great until you realize that it's going to be mauled in the first three months because of all the movement around the gear shifter ... The car at the DC auto show already had signs of wear around the center console.
The C30's interior is to the point with no unecessary "noise". Like VW's. Plus the design is smart in my opinion inside and out.
The 335 I drove a couple of times, I wrote about it extensively, the only thing I did not like was the lag introduced, probably, by both, the auto tranny and the turbos, in combination. Maybe the stick car would have made a better impression to me.
02-19-2008, 11:48 AM
#996
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Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
and I could not agree more that the trend towards ever larger vehicles is the wrong direction.
I think hatchbacks (like in the case of Europe) will be successful in America going forward. And of course crossovers are already successful and will add to their success. If you think about it, a crossover is really a more substantial/larger and higher-standing hatchback.
02-19-2008, 11:49 AM
#997
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Originally Posted by mrdeeno
Uh, hasn't the G37 been out for several months now?
02-19-2008, 02:15 PM
#998
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I just don't believe that the people running Acura over in Japan want to give the keys to Acura over to anyone in the states. It took them FOREVER to just let them design a car for the NA market (3G TL) and since then there's only been 2 more NA designed Acura's (MDX and RDX). Since the brand is making money selling rebadged Honda Accords there is no fiscal reasoning to the Honda overlords to let the brand be its own real automotive brand. It's kind of like how Ford rebadges everything with a Mercury logo and charges a higher price for it. And we all know how thats working out.
02-19-2008, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by mikeschicagoRL
I just don't believe that the people running Acura over in Japan want to give the keys to Acura over to anyone in the states. It took them FOREVER to just let them design a car for the NA market (3G TL) and since then there's only been 2 more NA designed Acura's (MDX and RDX). Since the brand is making money selling rebadged Honda Accords there is no fiscal reasoning to the Honda overlords to let the brand be its own real automotive brand. It's kind of like how Ford rebadges everything with a Mercury logo and charges a higher price for it. And we all know how thats working out.
02-19-2008, 03:30 PM
#1000
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Originally Posted by mrdeeno
The CL's were designed in the states for the states. We all know how well the CL did.