Hey fellas, I want to install a 500 watt amp with two 10" subs in my 98 cl 3.0. One problem I see is that some folks from this site are saying you cannot touch the bose cd system.

I do not want to change the cd player, I just want to add teh bass from my old car. Can I at least add the amp and sub without having to touch the other stock speakers?

What do I need to remove the head unit? are there any special tools? Does the paneling cause any problems? I just want to know as much as possible before i start tearing my car apart.

Thank you in advance

 

I don't know if the preamp loop is available on the 1st gen tl/cl like it is on the 2nd gen. I'm sure you could use an LOC from the rear speakers. I'd research first to see if you can get a preamp signal out of that oem hu before going that route though.

Actually, I don't know anything about the first gen cl/tl--anybody?

 

Helm service manual wiring diagrams would be step 1... anybody available to scan and post?

 

If I buy a 50x4 watt Kenwood KDC head unit, will that be enough to junk the preamp from the bose and just forget about all that confusing crap. I guess I will have to run new wire for the stock door and rear speakers, but I do not understand why? I just want some bass out of this car....

 

OK, it's apparent you don't want to understand what you have, you just want to add bass without learning anything.

I believe your car has rear deck woofers? If so, use an amp that has "high level" or "speaker level" inputs, or use a "line output converter (LOC)" or "stepdown adapter" . Tap the speaker wires in the R deck and that's how you can add a subwoofer amp.

Upgrading everything but the HU is possible, but more than you are looking for, apparently.

 

I want to leave the speakers in the door and rear deck, but people in hell want ice water. I want to add bass, mainly because a) I already have the subs and amp b)there is absolutely no bass coming out of my bose system. This is either because something is wrong, or the bose system just plain sucks. I bought the car from my grandmother who listened to talk radio and classical music, so i do not think she did anything to the system.

I have come to grips with the fact that I will need to replace the HU, preamp, speaker wires and possibly the speakers themselves. I just need some suggestions because as far as I understand it, I can run the four or five stock speakers with a head unit and just dedicate my amp to my sub woofers (wired in parallel i believe).

I want to make this as simple as possible while at the same time learning understanding what i am actually doing. I have never used a preamp in my other hondas before and my systems sounded fine (with the exception of too much bass which i toned down after the first week of any installation after the novelty wore off). I will document everything I do for other peoples (i.e. noobs like me) reference. I will check my amp at my next break here in a few minutes to see if I have high level or speaker level inputs.

But thank you regardless, i do want to learn and perhaps help others when i am done.

 

i guess I will purchase an Alpine...a lot of people on this forum are saying kenwood sucks, i just need to find a HU that is Sirius compatible so i can get it when Howard switches over to satellite. Any suggestions on components and rear speakers?

 

I think that Kenwood is fine... so is Alpine. I think Alpine is easier to use as HU's go... for amps many would send you to a different company.

If you set a budget for the overall project, and list the things you want to get in that budget, that will help a lot for everyone to make smart recommendations.

Such as:

F separates
trunk woofer in a box
4-channel amp
wiring
$1K

Or something like that

 

As for a budget, I have $500 to spend on this project, that is why i want to just keep the 2-channel amp and two 10" subs i already have.
I need:

cd receiver (sat ready)
two 5 1/2" door speakers
two 6x9 rear speakers
wiring

I would like to purchase nice speakers and simply power them from a cd receiver instead of buying a preamp or anything else, but I am willing to go over my limit if i must. Unlike my old accord, this is a nice car and i should put in the time and money. I have just always done my car stereos on cheap budgets which made it easy. Plus that is the extent of my knowledge at this point. Also, i wanted the factory deck because i am less likely to be broken into. It has an alarm, but thieves are clevor and I do not want any damage to my car from them.

 

Well, it is a nice car, and so I' going to recommend the following:

1) Go with a hidden Sirius controller (Kenwoodhas a small one...)

2) Use the Bose HU. It can be done, IMO, without having to add an aftermarket unit.

3) Don't get 6x9's for the rear. Get as good a set of front's as you can afford on your budget, and an amp for them, and then you'll have a system with the potential to sound pretty good.

So if you're getting Sirius now, you'd get the KW controller and tuner, a new amp, and a set of seperates...

Anyone know if the Bose in the '98 is balanced out?

 

I got the wiring diagram for the 98 CL audio... the connection between the HU and the trunk-mounted amp looks exactly the same as the TSX diagram - dedicated + and - wires, four channels. This means that it COULD be balanced, or it could be typical single-ended. Bose sometimes uses balanced. This is not a huge deal, just requires an adaptor if it's balanced, not the end of the world. A bigger question is how to bypass the Bose equalization...

Just out of curiousity, where are you geographically?

 

Thanks for the info, i'm about 10 miles outside Seattle. I just got the car not too long ago so i have not gone through it as thoroughly as i really should have before starting to ask questions. I didn't even know it had the amp in the trunk.

 

OK, I'm in Portland.

The way I verified that our TSX had the normal preamp output was to pop a test disc in and look at the signal with an oscilloscope. I have an oscillosope (and also a spectrum analyzer).

If you're up for making a road trip, I'll spend some time with you measuring and testing your car, and come up with DIY info on adding an amp to the 98 CL. Cost you gas and lunch. Then you'll have detailed info on how to upgrade your car, complete with wire info...

If you want to do it but can't make the road trip, PM me your e-mail and I'll send you the diagram I have (It is a Mitchell diagram, not a Helm...)

 

I cannot come down there because my girlfriend just bought a condo and I am spending all my time rewiring new heaters and lights for most rooms. That stuff i can do, but amps and speakers I know little about. I do want to learn however because there is a certain satisfaction I think we all get from doing things ourselves.

I have an oscilloscope here at work, so i will have to ask the engineers how to use it for this test. I will PM you though because i want to do it and I think this could help others. I just find it weird that the Bose stereo was supposed to be the best stock system yet my girlfriend's stereo in her Jetta sounds so much better. Thanks again

 

OK, you need to get a test CD with a sine wave track (1K sine wave is most common). There was a thread in AV a long time ago with arguing about how to set gains and I believe someone (e_lectro?) posted a link to where to get .wav files to make test CDs...

When the sine wave is being played, and you test the (+) signal wire between the amp and HU, you should see both the (+) and (-) half of the wave, when one probe is on the (+) wire and the other is on the GROUND wire. If you do, then you have a "single-ended" signal, and you can stop now - your signal is suitable to put RCA's on.

If you only see the (+) half, then repeat the test, but move your (+) probe to the (-) wire and leave the other probe on the GROUND wire. If you then see the (-) half of the waveform, you have a balanced differential signal. Now you need a balanced to single-ended adapter like the SUPERVEN from Peripheral.

The second trick is to test the HU OP to see if it is un-equalized (if the signal has been massaged to make Bose speakers sound better).

You need a test CD with 20-20k pink noise. This usually requires a spectrum analyzer with the audio range of 20 Hz to 20kHz - see if you have one at work. If you don't, tap some test wires into the involved lines for access, then put the car together, and see if a stereo store will test them with their RTA (many won't know how - they need an XLR to alligator clips if using an AudioControl 3055 or equivalent.) You might get the guys at Stereo Plus in Renton to do it if Mark M is still there (?)

 

Thank you for all the help. I cannot find the supposed amp in the back right of trunk. I just want new door speakers and a new amp for them. Plus I want to hook up my amp with my subs so I will look for the best way to do that.

Since my system will eventually be single-ended, what is the best way to include the amp and subs into the circuit?

 

dloveswm: Seriously, Eduderino is an expert at this stuff--I'd drive down to Portland on a Saturday and learn from the master... Shit, I'm temped to drive over to the coast from Boise Idaho to have him help me tune my system with his analyzer!

 

What you want to do is intercept the pre-amplified signals coming out of the HU... either at the HU or at the amp. The amp is often behind trunk liner...on that car I think it's on the pass side forward of the jack, if memory serves...

Regardless of where it is and where you tap these wires...

If the system is balanced, you'll tap the signal wires with a SUPERVEN adapter or similar. Then RCAs will go to your amp(s).

If it's already single-ended, take an RCA cut one end off (I would use two 1M-2F "Y" adpatprs and cut the M ends off... then strip back the coaxial wiring about 3/4" and connect the shield of the RCA cable to the (-) wire and the center conductor of the RCA to the (+) wire (exactly what I did in the TSX).

If you use F RCA ends where you tap, it allows insertion of line drivers and GLIs and stuff like that if need be...

I would use one amp for the woofs, and one amp for the F doors, and use your F OP for the F amd and the R OP for thee bass amp, and your HU fader will be your bass level control.