Kense

I should have gone to Texas to buy one because not only do the 2020's have a better exhaust sound they are much cheaper than the 21's. Oh well.

loki

Dealer close to me was selling the PMC TLX for $12K under MSRP just to get rid of it. The ultimate TLX with V6, SHAWD, Advance Pkg and ASPEC. If I didn't get burned so bad on the 2015 TLX, I may have jumped on it.

sonyfever

lol what a shame, the PMC masters spend so much time putting the car together, but few wants 1G TLX these days. That is one thing I find interesting, because at first I thought the high price of 2G will help clear 1G stock. I hope the PMC TLXs don't end up being crushed j/k

ELIN

Oct sales numbers are in and they don't look too shabby considering the % change in TLX matches that of the MDX:

Carnage719

I'm sure Acura execs aren't taking the "glass half full" outlook with near across the board, month-to-date/year-to-date losses.

someguy11

You fanboys underestimate how crushing the 1G TLX was to the Acura brand. The 1G sold about 4,500 per month in its first year Sept 2014 - Aug 2015. I only bought mine because it checked all the boxes and I was fixated on Acura thanks to decades of satisfaction with Accords, Odysseys and my TSX. My TLX - like those owned by the dozens or hundreds of other users on this site who left both the forum and the brand - was a problematic turd and awful to drive. It had zero redeeming qualities and I ditched it faster than any other vehicle I owned (hugely expensive lesson). The 2G can't sell 2,000 in its first month? Where are the buyers?

Well, why would I waltz into an Acura dealer now? Because the new 2G looks decent, missing trunk notwithstanding? I have zero reason to give them another chance. My GS has been great. I'm practically sure my next car will be an ES or an LS if I can swing it. Our Odyssey will be replaced with a GX when the time comes. Acura is losing the performance battle to the Euros, the reliability battle to Lexus and the cool factor to Tesla or Genesis. Why would anyone leave BMW, Audi, Volvo, Lexus or Genesis, which are all busy winning awards, for Acura? The only people who want a TLX are middle aged dads who are in the market for an Accord, but realize they deserve better because they just got that big promotion from associate to senior whatevertheydo, the 3% bump in salary that came with it and saw a TLX commercial before they went to the Honda dealer.

ELIN

I'm pretty sure that's been said about BMW 3 series too...

ELIN

This goes for the rest of the industry too because of the pandemic, no?

someguy11

The pandemic has been a boon for auto and truck sales. A roundabout explanation is that Covid-19 has resulted in work-from-home, some permanently, and an exodus from cities to suburbs for more space, more safety and lack of a commute. This, in turn, has resulted in strong auto sales for people moving to the suburbs that don't have vehicles and want to avoid public transportation. Covid-19 lockdowns mean no one is traveling, so they are choosing to spend what they would on vacations this year on their vehicles instead. Most brands, especially GM and Ford trucks, are reporting banner quarters and years. Just like every other industry, Covid-19 continues to separate the haves from the have nots. The TLX appears to be a have not. Acura may use the pandemic as a scapegoat, but that's wrong.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/18/coro...n-suburbs.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/19/used...gh-demand.html

ELIN

I know the used car market is great right now but I didn't think the same was true for new car purchases.

Thanks for sharing!

Midnight Mystery

At least you left out infiniti

Tony Pac

hahah!

Tony Pac

Infiniti is doing well no? They are coming up with QX55 after mega success of QX50 lol!

leomio85

For being a brand new model, the sales figures aren't really any good news. Plus, I'm sure some of those figures are leftover 1G TLXs. Hopefully sales pick up. They might reduce Type-S production if sales don't pick up by the Spring of next year. The biggest gripe I hear, from both Acura and non-Acura fans alike, is that the new TLX isn't worth the price hike. I think with the current affairs of the world, along with how deeply competitive this segment now is, a lot of people just don't think it's good enough. It seems to get mostly positive reviews from people who test drive it, but sales don't reflect the positivity. I'm no expert though, and we can really only speculate as to why sales aren't doing so hot. Maybe it's because the TLX just does everything well, but doesn't excel or stand out in any particular way? Heck, maybe its just people holding off on seeing what the Type-S brings to the table before pulling the trigger on the more pedestrian model? Time will tell, but if sales don't pick up, I don't foresee Acura bringing the TLX back for a 3G.

ELIN

I compared last year's A-Spec against this year's and the hike was only $1450. The biggest price delta is b/w the Base models, I think.

$4500 difference was b/w Base FWD models. If you get something other than that (like the A-Spec), the difference narrows quite a bit.

leomio85

Yea, the real reason for large "price hike" was mainly because they got rid of the I4 option. Now it's just a turbo I4 or nothing. So, comparing apples to apples, the V6 base should have been the one most rags were comparing it against as far as price point goes. But, even still, people seem put off by it. ES and, surprisingly, IS sales did well for August and September of 2020. Even Infiniti Q50 sales did better than the TLX in September. Whatever it is, I'm sure Acura isn't too happy about it. They need to get it sorted out ... with the initial hype over, I'd assume sales are only going to slow down from here unless corrective actions are taken.

ELIN

The one TLX commercial where the Blue A-Spec driver rescues the girl on the train tracks is pretty lame. Acura needs to hire better marketers to show off this car!

mcrompton

It's a Type-S actually

ELIN

You're right! I re-watched it and now see the quad-pipes, better wheels, and Type S emblem in the front grill. You can't see the engine so very easy to confuse with the Type-S adjace (A-Spec). LOL!

I suppose the vanilla TLX is just not exciting enough to showcase in a commercial. That's a problem!

4G-Lover

I never had such hard time negotiating for a new car as much as this summer when I bought my wife ride. Granted it was a specialty vehicle but simply sales staff were not interested talking to you when you were entering the showroom, in one instance they literally ignored me.
Calls not returned, rude answer at the mention of the word "discount", etc..it really baffled me. I thought because of COVID dealerships were desperate...no, exactly the opposite.

Going back to Acura, when i got the 4G I had a bit of hard time negotiating it, it took me more than a month but it was well worth the effort, the car offered tremendous value for the money, the reliability reputation, etc..
I do not know the 2G TLX but if Acura is stingy when it come to discounts and low rates, there is simply a very vast choices of excellent competitor cars out there, much more than 2010 when I got my 4G.

4G-Lover

The V8 Chargers literally fly off the dealer lots COVID or no COVID....simply, they are fantastic performance sedans for the money and FCA learned how to keep them relevant and updated with the latest tech and improved interior.. The 392 is the only sedan that can match or beat the M340i numbers for less money and more room and trunk space, end of the story.

An acquaintance got one few weeks ago, widebody fully loaded for 49K.

pyrodan007

In our current times, luxury and daily car definition are continuously being blurred. If performance and AWD are not a deciding factor, there will be tons of options very very soon: Kia K5 GT, Hyundai Elantra N, 2022 Civic. I'm not even including interior room since it's an afterthought on the TLX. Something is really wrong with Acura, even the 2022 CIVIC is getting a digital display. The TLX was just released, and yet it already feels so old based on all the exciting things coming to models very soon.

4G-Lover

I been saying for years that there is no longer market space for the "quasi-luxury" or "smart luxury" brands like Acura......mainstream cars are getting so good and on the other hand fully fledged luxury brands are dipping their toes with econobox with fancy dressing (for example BMW 2 Series, Audi A3 and Q3, MB A and B Class, etc...)

leomio85

I'm ignorant on the topic, but I don't think Acura can do much about their dealerships being greedy. If they don't want to deal, that's on them, not so much the brand. Unless Acura doesn't incentivize sales volume like other brands do to get units moving versus profit per unit? I know it was like pulling teeth even getting $2k off our '20 A-Spec RDX.

4G-Lover

Only 2K off from a ~50K mainstream car?? Did you laugh at their faces??

BEAR-AvHistory

"Maximum Bob" Lutz predicted this about 8 years ago. Cheap electronics & hardware would blur the features line among all cars. Luxury brands would have to find new ways to differentiate themselves from less expensive brands.

Top guys are doing that with image & buyer perception. Acura has taken three shots at it & is still in a "what's an Acura?" image valley.

ELIN

Of the luxury Japanese brands, Lexus definitely has more presence and memorability. Were they the ones who started the big red gift bow craze?

fiatlux

Absolutely this. Tech (mostly) is no longer a differentiator between mainstream and luxury because it's gotten cheap enough and attainable enough at the lower ends of the market.

Acura's issue is that they never cultivated a strong value proposition and brand strategy that wasn't centered around price and value. Lexus has the aura of perfection and reliability with "The Relentless Pursuit of Perfection", everyone knows BMW is all about performance and the driving experience with "The Ultimate Driving Machine", Mercedes gets the nod for best the money can buy with "The Best or Nothing", and even Audi is casting itself as being ahead of everyone else in tech with "Truth in Engineering". Each of those suggests that they are the best at something (whether or not that's true is debatable, but in sales, perception is more important than reality). Even Genesis has a more powerful tagline: "Luxury Evolved". Acura only just started leaning on "Precision-crafted Performance", which not only doesn't suggest it's the best at something, but with how the 2G TLX has played out, it's not even particularly accurate given that most reviews concluded that it's a good-to-great car, but a ho-hum sport sedan.

4G-Lover

They do that with halo and super powerful luxurious models something the Japanese luxury divisions never understood with the partial exception of Lexus and even them they made stupid moves sometimes...like the naturally aspirated GS-F which was vastly outperformed by all of its intended competitors.

ELIN

One possible future differentiator will be any electronics that requires rare metals (ie. 5G, etc.) where China has ~90% of the total world's supply.

Luxury companies can hide the cost in their inflated MSRP's whereas non-luxury makers can't.

4G-Lover

It has nothing to do with mottos IMHO...it has all to do with the product. Acura got caught in no man's land with the "smart luxury" or "value luxury" positioning and they are still spinning their wheels. Mainstream car buyer motivations are very different from luxury buyer motivations, Japanese (with the partial exception of Lexus) never grasped this. If you want one of the best sedan for the money you already have the Accord, period...no need for another one.
Look the disaster at Infiniti...after carefully starting to build some street creed, they threw it all away....I suspect that brand has less then 5 years of life left in it.

BEAR-AvHistory

The 16 rare earth elements are not really that rare. What China has is the production capability of separating the elements from the raw ore. RE mined here is sent to China for processing. From 1952 until the 1990s, the Mountain Pass minein California was one of the world’s only suppliers of rare earth elements.

The government stepped it classified them under the same regulation as thorium a radioactive element. Cost of refining went through the roof & the industry collapsed.

The 11 most feared words in the country " I'm from the government and I am here to help you"

The Mountain Pass mine resumed operations in 2017, but it must send its ore to China for processing and extraction of the rare earth elements.

Each month, the United States mines between 3,300 and 4,400 tons of lanthanum, cerium, praseodymium, neodymium, promethium, samarium, europium, gadolinium, terbium, dysprosium, holmium, erbium, thulium, ytterbium, lutetium, scandium and yttrium, all of which is sent to China for processing.

The Round Top mine in Texas has over a 130-year supply of these critical minerals and expects to produce enough lithium to become the nation’s second largest source.
I think there is supposed to be a pilot operation someplace out west to do the processing in country. That would kill China's monopoly.

ELIN

It's unfortunate that we have to send to China for processing. It's too bad they stopped taking our recycling!

fiatlux

Mottos help provide a narrative around the products that are being built and sold. At this price point, the “lifestyle” or image the brand exudes is just as important to buyers, if not more important. Acura can build some awesome cars, but without the corresponding brand image it’s going to be tough sledding.

4G-Lover

I'm not saying that a marketing message is not important but if it is not backed up by good competitive products, it's pointless.

The 1G TLX Acura commercial about performance driving was almost comical when you consider the reality of that car.

ELIN

I just compared the 2G TLX against a 2021 E350 4MATIC (turbo 4 cyl.). The TLX is slightly wider and longer with more trunk space. It only loses about an inch rear legroom to the E350.

Did the E-Class interior shrink?!!! I had a 2014 E350 that felt roomier than a Camry or Altima.

fiatlux

That’s fair, but a good product without strong brand presence is DOA as well. Acura is kind of in that zone where they make some outstanding cars but the brand can’t command that type of price. In fact, I’d argue the former is better than the later. Case in point the POS CLA that still sold like hotcakes even though by most measures it was pretty bad, or the 9G Civic that still sold well even though most agreed it was a big step backwards, even with the emergency refresh.

dmski

Another sad part is that the top trims in these new models will probably be faster than the 2nd TLX. That's absolutely pathetic for a so called 'sports sedan'....

Colorado Guy AF Ret.

Manufacturers don't have a "say" on what a dealer charges for a vehicle. Dealers are free to ask for what they'd like to get. Not that manufacturers don't get "ticked off" at dealers...when the
makers want to get a great vehicle in to the hands of more people who can afford them...and then the dealers do the ADM thing. But, the dealers prevail.
The key way and easiest for me to get a new Acura is the fact I've been buying them for yrs now from the same dealer. So, I get treated very well!! Hey, when a GM gives your wife a Tiffany whiskey
decanter....then you know you're in the "elite buyers group" with that dealer. I generally pay right at Invoice for most all Acura's I've purchased. I'm sure if I go back through my folders...on each one
I can find a sale or 2 that were under Invoice.
I could have easily purchased a '20 TLX A-Spec for Invoice. No back and forth...just "here's the price for you"....and off we go. So, loyalty to a great dealership helps if you buy as often as I do.
They don't want to lose my business. It's not all about how much profit on each sale....it's also for them...moving a unit. That helps with their Dist. Sales status and thus more allocations when they
want them. My dealer is the #1 in their Dist. AND one of the top 10 in the U.S. most months. Volume for new models sold....and they do great with "pre owned" Acura's.

someguy11

I only come here when I'm bored out of my mind with nothing to do at work. I do so for conversations like this one because you guys are car guys, not just Acura guys, and for interesting discussions like this. I couldn't agree more. Accord is the best sedan on the planet. Has it been C&D 10 Best like 30 years now or something like that? I should have gone with my gut and got a 10G rather than the TLX 1G. Damn AWD was too appealing. Long gone are the days where the Accord had little or few options and you needed the Legend or Vigor for leather, power everything and a V6 engine. Cars have funneled into the same channel with loaded base models econoboxes. I mean, they can't rely on fog lights to sell their upper trims forever.

I agree with fiatlux on the marketing though. The other brands have great tag lines to go with their great products. Even the commercials are better. BMW has one out stringing Christmas lights drifting and doing donuts. Resonates with performance. MB has one with a stuffed animal on a big rig grill on a cold winter night. Resonates with warmth and comfort. Lexus has dad buys mom a car because he can and cares. Resonates with the haves in America. Meanwhile, Acura has the wild west rescuing damsels in distress from steam trains. Maybe they want to connect with all the millennials who are Clint Eastwood fans? The part where he turns the knob to Sport Mode like it activates the turbo or NO2 is a huge facepalm. Like the Explorer commercial where he turn the knob from Normal to Rain or Mud as he drives through a puddle... who writes these commercials and are most buyers really that dumb??