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If you're going to blow the warranty by modding a Type S, why not compare it to a modded S4 or M340i? Sure a tuned Type S might keep up with those cars stock, but a tuned S4 or M340i is going to gap (gape?) a tuned Type S. An APR Stage 1 S4 ran an 11.97s quarter and 3.6s 0-60. I imagine a tuned M340i is even faster.
So I'm Stage 2 with Catless DP and stage 3 transmission tune, im waiting for my upgraded turbo inlet to arrive next week to slap it on and i gotta say, stock the car is super fast but Stage 2 is another world i top out about 21.5 -22 psi running E40 mixture. Def if the Type S gets these same mods with ktuner or hondata it can be a pretty fast car buttttttt lets see what the future holds......i think the type s should be flashed then run with a stock M340. From the factory its putting out almost 390 to the wheels or more.
Tune, catless downpipes, intake, exhaust, larger replacement turbos, alloy charge pipe, replacement intercooler, ethanol injection, many with full E85 conversion (fuel pumps etc), tires. Might be more but I have not kept up with it. Think the key now days are the actual performance turbo replacements. They were just coming out when I switched cars.
Also when I was running the half shafts & drive shaft were fragile in 11 second cars. One of the Beta cars broke a drive shaft & trashed the LSD case. A brace was developed for the differential & after market half shafts & drive shafts were produced. When I bought the Cobra did not modify any other BMW and left the 135is with just a JB4 & alloy charge pipe.
Back in the day ran a best of 12.0 118mph (separate runs) Stock twin turbos, with piggy backed JB4/backend flash (100 octane), FMIC, alloy charge pipe, 7DCT software upgrade, 285 tires replacing 255 stock. Was one of 3 beta cars, the slowest, the others had down pipes, intakes & ran in the mid/high 11's
Current Z4 exceeds its available traction with 285 PSS rears so never though about doing anything to it.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 07-09-2021 at 04:33 PM.
Tune, catless downpipes, intake, exhaust, larger replacement turbos, alloy charge pipe, replacement intercooler, ethanol injection, many with full E85 conversion (fuel pumps etc), tires. Might be more but I have not kept up with it. Think the key now days are the actual performance turbo replacements. They were just coming out when I switched cars.
Ballpark pricing? You can fully do up a CTR for about $4k (turbo, intercooler, downpipe, tune). Whenever I look at german brand stuff it seems like they just take Honda x2 pricing because "you can afford it".
Ballpark pricing? You can fully do up a CTR for about $4k (turbo, intercooler, downpipe, tune). Whenever I look at german brand stuff it seems like they just take Honda x2 pricing because "you can afford it".
Performance parts are not BMW M-Sport from Germany they are from USA vendors. Don't know currant exact pricing but I had around $1500 not counting tires to go from stock 319/321WHP to 405/407WHP on DynoJet N54. The 135is N55 has $575 in it. Its not been dynoed but runs a custom JB4 map. Based on DynoJet numbers from a similar stage in my 335is build think its about 360/365 at the wheels from an advertised 320BHP
Quick look for current B58 suggests full JB4 tuner is $529, maps are free WMI is $379, Burger Motorsports, PURE stage II turbos are $2500, Intercooler/ Downpipe package $1500. B58 586WHP on PURE'S dyno. For less power 481WHP PURE has Stage I turbos for around $1200.
FWIW C&D said my 2013 135is 6MT would do: Zero to 60 mph: 4.6 sec Standing Ľ-mile: 13.3 sec @ 107 mph Very confident as it stands now will outrun the Type-S The JB4 also eliminates the 148mph speed limiter. Guys have autobahn runs @ 178 MPH according to GPS. Does not sound like a good plan for a long life.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 07-10-2021 at 04:57 AM.
Performance parts are not BMW M-Sport from Germany they are from USA vendors. Don't know currant exact pricing but I had around $1500 not counting tires to go from stock 319/321WHP to 405/407WHP on DynoJet N54. The 135is N55 has $575 in it. Its not been dynoed but runs a custom JB4 map. Based on DynoJet numbers from a similar stage in my 335is build think its about 360/365 at the wheels from an advertised 320BHP
Quick look for current B58 suggests full JB4 tuner is $529, maps are free WMI is $379, Burger Motorsports, PURE stage II turbos are $2500, Intercooler/ Downpipe package $1500. B58 586WHP on PURE'S dyno. For less power 481WHP PURE has Stage I turbos for around $1200.
FWIW C&D said my 2013 135is 6MT would do: Zero to 60 mph: 4.6 sec Standing Ľ-mile: 13.3 sec @ 107 mph Very confident as it stands now will outrun the Type-S The JB4 also eliminates the 148mph speed limiter. Guys have autobahn runs @ 178 MPH according to GPS. Does not sound like a good plan for a long life.
Yes it will. But, at 4200 lbs it should. The Type S is a consistent...with a good driver....mid to high 13 sec. car. Not bad with the weight and it's a lux, sports, sedan. Great every day driver, and a lot of fun
when you hit the go pedal. Lot of car for the money.
Yes it will. But, at 4200 lbs it should. The Type S is a consistent...with a good driver....mid to high 13 sec. car. Not bad with the weight and it's a lux, sports, sedan. Great every day driver, and a lot of fun
when you hit the go pedal. Lot of car for the money.
you mean a lot of money for the car? This car with ADM costs as much and more than German competition and offers less.
Yes it will. But, at 4200 lbs it should. The Type S is a consistent...with a good driver....mid to high 13 sec. car. Not bad with the weight and it's a lux, sports, sedan. Great every day driver, and a lot of fun
when you hit the go pedal. Lot of car for the money.
Yeah its a nice car with performance just behind my 13.0 2011 BMW 335is when it was stock. Back then it would be a quick car. Nothing against big cars if you power them. BMW also has a 4200lb 4 door sport sedan that does Standing Ľ-mile: 10.9 sec @ 130 mph that will out run the current StingRay but its big bucks. Or for not so big bucks you could buy a 4200lb Dodge Hemi V8. Sorry but I did not really see anything exciting happen when they hit the go pedal unless you were rooting for the S4
Was thinking about the roll races on the way home from the beach today. Traffic flow is very quick typical 80/85MPH. Cruise set at 88mph built in 3mph over indication & when it was time to pass the car kicked you in the butt when you hit the go pedal & 106mph came up very very quickly.
What I personally object to is the BS marketing crap that gets regurgitated way to much. I think the true sports sedans have moved well away from my 2011 & the current TLX-S. The S4 was the designated target, the weakest of the Germans. So to ruin the coming out party the S4 did not get the memo that it was the sacrifice & the S4 kill's type-S OOPS!!
Then a day or so later it gets dumped by the Korean that isn't even a player & they want ADM's for the car. First race Slow Sam driving the Korean looks over his shoulder & says WOW. No need to watch the next 9 minutes. The lease with $5000 down thats floating around the forum is more than a 36 month lease for a $72,300 MSRP Z4 M40i. I have $2500 in my lease which included tags, fees & the first months payment & pay over $100 less a month. You can get some serious cars for that money.
I am begining to think that Acura is taken leave of their collective senses.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 07-11-2021 at 07:14 PM.
Yeah its a nice car with performance just behind my 13.0 2011 BMW 335is when it was stock. Back then it would be a quick car. Nothing against big cars if you power them. BMW also has a 4200lb 4 door sport sedan that does Standing Ľ-mile: 10.9 sec @ 130 mph that will out run the current StingRay but its big bucks. Or for not so big bucks you could buy a 4200lb Dodge Hemi V8. Sorry but I did not really see anything exciting happen when they hit the go pedal unless you were rooting for the S4
Was thinking about the roll races on the way home from the beach today. Traffic flow is very quick typical 80/85MPH. Cruise set at 88mph built in 3mph over indication & when it was time to pass the car kicked you in the butt when you hit the go pedal & 106mph came up very very quickly.
What I personally object to is the BS marketing crap that gets regurgitated way to much. I think the true sports sedans have moved well away from my 2011 & the current TLX-S. The S4 was the designated target, the weakest of the Germans. So to ruin the coming out party the S4 did not get the memo that it was the sacrifice & the S4 kill's type-S OOPS!!
Then a day or so later it gets dumped by the Korean that isn't even a player & they want ADM's for the car. First race Slow Sam driving the Korean looks over his shoulder & says WOW. No need to watch the next 9 minutes. The lease with $5000 down thats floating around the forum is more than a 36 month lease for a $72,300 MSRP Z4 M40i. I have $2500 in my lease which included tags, fees & the first months payment & pay over $100 less a month. You can get some serious cars for that money.
I am begining to think that Acura is taken leave of their collective senses.
The base price of the car that was established by Acura is $52,800. More than a few reviewers, who possibly know a bit about vehicle cost, have noted that gets you a lot of car for the money. You can't blame Acura that the current demand for the vehicle is allowing some indepedent Acura dealers to charge more than the price set by Acura. I would not recommend that anyone pay ADM, but at least for now unfortuantely they are.
Yeah its a nice car with performance just behind my 13.0 2011 BMW 335is when it was stock. Back then it would be a quick car. Nothing against big cars if you power them. BMW also has a 4200lb 4 door sport sedan that does Standing Ľ-mile: 10.9 sec @ 130 mph that will out run the current StingRay but its big bucks. Or for not so big bucks you could buy a 4200lb Dodge Hemi V8. Sorry but I did not really see anything exciting happen when they hit the go pedal unless you were rooting for the S4
Was thinking about the roll races on the way home from the beach today. Traffic flow is very quick typical 80/85MPH. Cruise set at 88mph built in 3mph over indication & when it was time to pass the car kicked you in the butt when you hit the go pedal & 106mph came up very very quickly.
What I personally object to is the BS marketing crap that gets regurgitated way to much. I think the true sports sedans have moved well away from my 2011 & the current TLX-S. The S4 was the designated target, the weakest of the Germans. So to ruin the coming out party the S4 did not get the memo that it was the sacrifice & the S4 kill's type-S OOPS!!
Then a day or so later it gets dumped by the Korean that isn't even a player & they want ADM's for the car. First race Slow Sam driving the Korean looks over his shoulder & says WOW. No need to watch the next 9 minutes. The lease with $5000 down thats floating around the forum is more than a 36 month lease for a $72,300 MSRP Z4 M40i. I have $2500 in my lease which included tags, fees & the first months payment & pay over $100 less a month. You can get some serious cars for that money.
I am begining to think that Acura is taken leave of their collective senses.
I feel TLX-S is similar in size to 540xi and weighs around 100-200 lbs more and will give about same 0-60 performance. I also believe TLX-S performance will be similar to E450 (upto 2020 model with V6 engine).
The base price of the car that was established by Acura is $52,800. More than a few reviewers, who possibly know a bit about vehicle cost, have noted that gets you a lot of car for the money. You can't blame Acura that the current demand for the vehicle is allowing some indepedent Acura dealers to charge more than the price set by Acura. I would not recommend that anyone pay ADM, but at least for now unfortuantely they are.
I have a feeling any ADM is about to evaporate. I cancelled my order just this weekend and the guy I've been working with mentioned it was funny because I was the 3rd to cancel in the last few days. I chuckled and said that's odd but I know for an absolute fact it's probably because those drags came out. Watching it get crushed by S4 and G70 doesn't make it a bad car but a lot of orders, including mine, were of the mindset that it was a bit of a performance bargain. Knowing it's not, it's just a tougher sell for some. It's a lot of money for a performance car that can't keep up with anything it competes with. Forget ADM the thing is going to have incentives soon and it might become a good deal again with them.
I have a feeling any ADM is about to evaporate. I cancelled my order just this weekend and the guy I've been working with mentioned it was funny because I was the 3rd to cancel in the last few days. I chuckled and said that's odd but I know for an absolute fact it's probably because those drags came out. Watching it get crushed by S4 and G70 doesn't make it a bad car but a lot of orders, including mine, were of the mindset that it was a bit of a performance bargain. Knowing it's not, it's just a tougher sell for some. It's a lot of money for a performance car that can't keep up with anything it competes with. Forget ADM the thing is going to have incentives soon and it might become a good deal again with them.
It's funny; if I were seriously in the market for the Type S, I would be ecstatic that this car is getting smoked by the competition at the drag strip. Its shortcomings at the strip (or track) by no means affects how enjoyable the car is to drive as a daily driver, and the more people who cancel their orders, the cheaper it'll be to buy. It reminds me of when I bought my IS-F back in 2009. Once all the fanboys got theirs in 2008, dealerships had to put a lot of cash on the hood to move these cars because all the magazines still had it playing second fiddle to the E90 M3 (which at the time was still selling for close to sticker, even during the recession). Granted the M3 would run circles around it at the track, but on the road, I much more preferred the Lexus's 5.0L V8 and the superb fit and finish. How it performed (or didn't perform) on the track affected my enjoyment of that car not one iota.
It's funny; if I were seriously in the market for the Type S, I would be ecstatic that this car is getting smoked by the competition at the drag strip. Its shortcomings at the strip (or track) by no means affects how enjoyable the car is to drive as a daily driver, and the more people who cancel their orders, the cheaper it'll be to buy. It reminds me of when I bought my IS-F back in 2009. Once all the fanboys got theirs in 2008, dealerships had to put a lot of cash on the hood to move these cars because all the magazines still had it playing second fiddle to the E90 M3 (which at the time was still selling for close to sticker, even during the recession). Granted the M3 would run circles around it at the track, but on the road, I much more preferred the Lexus's 5.0L V8 and the superb fit and finish.
Yeah for those who want the car regardless it's great news, this should start to kill the ADM and bring on incentives quicker and it will still be a fun car to drive, own and live with no doubt about that! It's just hard to justify the price for those of us who have been cross shopping. It's biggest problem is that it's priced to high, it's priced into territory it doesn't compete with. Bring the price down to 45-48k or so and the conversation changes. It's not a bad car by any stretch of the imagination it's just priced into the wrong segment for what it is.
Guys, I'm with SinCity....I went to test drive a Type S on Friday. It was just OK. I wound up getting a TLX Aspec for $24,000 less with SH AWD and the beautiful red interior. I just couldn't justify the extra cost of the Type S. And they gave me $6,000 for my 2007 Type S with 144,000 miles on the clock. Got a TERRIFIC price on the TLX Aspec (it's the 3rd Acura I've purchased from this dealership).
At the end of the day, the Type S just wasn't worth the extra money....
I agree with Mr. Bell. I also went to the dealer when they called me to test drive the Type S. I first test drove the regular TLX tech package SH AWD. It was a good drive, like my RDX, but the AWD was fantastic in my opinion. Cornering and handling outstanding with that. The Type S was just very refined, comfortable, quiet, and ok to me too. Not too much different than the TLX with AWD for sure. $62,000 at my dealer for the type S. Forget it, I have a deposit on the TLX tech package with SH AWD in Majestic Black and ebony interior. As well, I got a good deal with $2500 loyalty and $4000.00 discount.
Last edited by StealthTL-S; 07-14-2021 at 10:19 AM.
Going backwards wouldn't do them any favors. They used to have an ad in 2008 "it's greater to lead, than to follow". They used to live by those words, truly.
What if the whole point of the Type S was really to put a more powerful engine into the MDX and the TLX-S was merely to add appeal to the sedan option? It's quite possible Acura punted on TLX performance in favor of making the super duper MDX-S (w/massage seats possibly) an even better success!
What if the whole point of the Type S was really to put a more powerful engine into the MDX and the TLX-S was merely to add appeal to the sedan option? It's quite possible Acura punted on TLX performance in favor of making the super duper MDX-S (w/massage seats possibly) an even better success!
That would be possible if they didn't spend last 4 years touting precision crafted sedan. Type S prototype was hyped to oblivion. Not an SUV.
That would be possible if they didn't spend last 4 years touting precision crafted sedan. Type S prototype was hyped to oblivion. Not an SUV.
Good point. Come to think of it, they hyped the 1G TLX prototype as well for years and months leading up to the launch of the great TL / TSX reincarnate. We know how that went. Is insanity doing the same thing and expecting a different result? Or is this more like, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me?
Yeah its a nice car with performance just behind my 13.0 2011 BMW 335is when it was stock. Back then it would be a quick car. Nothing against big cars if you power them. BMW also has a 4200lb 4 door sport sedan that does Standing Ľ-mile: 10.9 sec @ 130 mph that will out run the current StingRay but its big bucks. Or for not so big bucks you could buy a 4200lb Dodge Hemi V8. Sorry but I did not really see anything exciting happen when they hit the go pedal unless you were rooting for the S4
Was thinking about the roll races on the way home from the beach today. Traffic flow is very quick typical 80/85MPH. Cruise set at 88mph built in 3mph over indication & when it was time to pass the car kicked you in the butt when you hit the go pedal & 106mph came up very very quickly.
What I personally object to is the BS marketing crap that gets regurgitated way to much. I think the true sports sedans have moved well away from my 2011 & the current TLX-S. The S4 was the designated target, the weakest of the Germans. So to ruin the coming out party the S4 did not get the memo that it was the sacrifice & the S4 kill's type-S OOPS!!
Then a day or so later it gets dumped by the Korean that isn't even a player & they want ADM's for the car. First race Slow Sam driving the Korean looks over his shoulder & says WOW. No need to watch the next 9 minutes. The lease with $5000 down thats floating around the forum is more than a 36 month lease for a $72,300 MSRP Z4 M40i. I have $2500 in my lease which included tags, fees & the first months payment & pay over $100 less a month. You can get some serious cars for that money.
I am begining to think that Acura is taken leave of their collective senses.
The G70 weighs 313 lbs less..and slightly more power. Fair?....Prob. not.
Could also be marketing misdirection. Hype the vehicle that really needs it (sedan) rather than the one that has no trouble selling (SUV).
Poor plan. You put you money into your successes to drive them further into the market & gain share in the segment. Once a car is a looser its gone you will not recover from a (looking for a word) a tarnished reputation. The ultimate example the book "Unsafe at any speed" that unjustly killed the Chevy Corvair. The car beat to death in the book was no longer being produced & the swing axles the whole premise of the book had been eliminated but the patient died anyway.
Poor plan. You put you money into your successes to drive them further into the market & gain share in the segment. Once a car is a looser its gone you will not recover from a (looking for a word) a tarnished reputation. The ultimate example the book "Unsafe at any speed" that unjustly killed the Chevy Corvair. The car beat to death in the book was no longer being produced & the swing axles the whole premise of the book had been eliminated but the patient died anyway.
Good point. There was a Chevy commercial oh maybe ten years ago... they were ripping themselves for a previous generation Malibu design. Something about a bank heist where the robbers got away because the cops didn't even notice a Malibu leaving the scene. And despite being three of four generations removed from that commercial, the Malibu is now dead for good. Why? It always was mediocre at best. Once a model is spiraling the bowl, it's very hard to stop the turd from getting flushed. Selling a lot of Yukons and Silverados wasn't enough to save the Malibu, Impala, Cruze, Sonic and all that other garbage.
Good reputations are hard to earn, but really easy to lose. Once you have a bad stigma, it's practically impossible to shake. Notorious cars like the Vega, Gremlin, Pinto, Cimarron, Honda Passport, etc. were detrimental to the model and the brands. The bad associations lasted years if not decades. I mean, is it any wonder GM stopped making sedans? Do I think Acura is reaching that point? Not at all. But their sedans are falling behind the top tier group of automakers as well as getting attacked from behind by the Accord.
By the way, I'm old enough to remember the EV1 too. I'll bring that up as an example of the opposite of the above - when GM actually made a good car, but management killed it, bungled the subsequent PR, shattered customer service and set themselves back 20 years in the EV race. That is a perfect example of figuring out a way to crush your reputation via dysfunctional management, despite making a great, cutting edge, popular car.
And now, as of today, we have Bolt fires. Great job making people sus of EVs. My god. It’s a wonder this manufacturer even exists or makes anything besides Silverados and Corvettes.
Dealers do ADM's...not all for sure. Acura can't dictate to dealers the sell price. Mine sells at MSRP...or less...for me. Fact.
FACT? PROVE IT JACK! YOU GOT YOUR LAP DOGS JUMPING AROUND AND LIKING EVERYTHING YOU SAY...WHAAAAAA, MSRP, LIES! PROVE IT VATO - STOP DRINKING THE COOL AID AND PROVE IT...YEEEEETTTTTT, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaa
Good point. There was a Chevy commercial oh maybe ten years ago... they were ripping themselves for a previous generation Malibu design. Something about a bank heist where the robbers got away because the cops didn't even notice a Malibu leaving the scene. And despite being three of four generations removed from that commercial, the Malibu is now dead for good. Why? It always was mediocre at best. Once a model is spiraling the bowl, it's very hard to stop the turd from getting flushed. Selling a lot of Yukons and Silverados wasn't enough to save the Malibu, Impala, Cruze, Sonic and all that other garbage.
Good reputations are hard to earn, but really easy to lose. Once you have a bad stigma, it's practically impossible to shake. Notorious cars like the Vega, Gremlin, Pinto, Cimarron, Honda Passport, etc. were detrimental to the model and the brands. The bad associations lasted years if not decades. I mean, is it any wonder GM stopped making sedans? Do I think Acura is reaching that point? Not at all. But their sedans are falling behind the top tier group of automakers as well as getting attacked from behind by the Accord.
By the way, I'm old enough to remember the EV1 too. I'll bring that up as an example of the opposite of the above - when GM actually made a good car, but management killed it, bungled the subsequent PR, shattered customer service and set themselves back 20 years in the EV race. That is a perfect example of figuring out a way to crush your reputation via dysfunctional management, despite making a great, cutting edge, popular car.
And now, as of today, we have Bolt fires. Great job making people sus of EVs. My god. It’s a wonder this manufacturer even exists or makes anything besides Silverados and Corvettes.
Remember when Chevy basically made up a survey and declared themselves the winner of it?
FACT? PROVE IT JACK! YOU GOT YOUR LAP DOGS JUMPING AROUND AND LIKING EVERYTHING YOU SAY...WHAAAAAA, MSRP, LIES! PROVE IT VATO - STOP DRINKING THE COOL AID AND PROVE IT...YEEEEETTTTTT, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaa
#psychotalk
Not a kid anymore...don't like Kool Aid. You never proved to us what you said....I KNOW what I've been paying. But, you can't stand behind what you said about
dealers and MSRP. You can't because...you are WRONG...again. Not wasting my time with an idiot.
07-09-2021, 03:57 PM
