When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
First, no offence to anyone here who owns a Kia (and I might be talking out my rear because I've never actually owned one ) ... but I have drove rentals.
But aren't those Korean ... like Hyundai ? I've always thought the Koreans are good at "copying" (and not just cars) and apparently have some good body designers/copiers (yes, they "look" pretty). I suggest you rent one before you buy one.
Who knows, maybe they are great now. However, I would use caution grouping them with the Japanese brands.
Those "copiers" are Germans. Design guy is Audi, Powertrain - Handling guy is BMW M division. They were heads of their departments & took staff with them. In the Consumer Reports brand reliability rankings, Toyota's luxury brand, Lexus, and its namesake brand ranked first and third, respectively. Mazda was second.
Hyundai-Kia reached the 4th largest car company in the world. They have replaced GM which is now #5 Korean brands Genesis, Hyundai and Kia, all part of the same parent company, ranked fifth, sixth and ninth, respectively. They topped rival Japanese brands Nissan (11th), Honda (12th), Infiniti (13th) and Acura (28th).
NOTE Disclosure - Grandson drives a Genesis R-Spec Coupe. V6/6MT/LSD/19" wheels with PSS & Track Package.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 08-18-2020 at 09:18 AM.
FIXED Previous post sentences out of order DUH. Timed out could not make the change.
Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory
Those "copiers" are Germans. Design guy is Audi, Powertrain - Handling guy is BMW M division. They were heads of their departments & took staff with them.
In the Consumer Reports brand reliability rankings, Toyota's luxury brand, Lexus, and its namesake brand ranked first and third, respectively. Mazda was second. Korean brands Genesis, Hyundai and Kia, all part of the same parent company, ranked fifth, sixth and ninth, respectively. They topped rival Japanese brands Nissan (11th), Honda (12th), Infiniti (13th) and Acura (28th).
Hyundai-Kia reached the 4th largest car company in the world. They have replaced GM which is now #5
NOTE Disclosure - Grandson drives a Genesis R-Spec Coupe. V6/6MT/LSD/19" wheels with PSS & Track Package.
I do not know anyone that owns a KIA so I appreciate the response. So reading this on top doing some research that KIA has turned a corner a few years back and is actually one of the better brands on the market. So after reading this forum I am iffy on the Type S as far as the first year since nobody knows the realiability of this car with a new engine. So now I have came down to wait and test drive the 2.0T along with the Stinger and go from there. It’s crazy cause I glanced at a few stinger forums and people have been able to get the GT2 brand new for 38k. I do not know if it will be possible to get a new TLX for that price. I do not know if Acura will be willing to come down as much as Kia. I just really want to see the TLX in person already. Thanks for the link by the way. I just read it right now and maintenance is cheaper than I expected.
Originally Posted by 04WDPSeDaN
My wife and I had owned a 2011 fully loaded Optima. When purchased, it had 4,000 miles and when it was a write off, it had just about 70K. Out of the 6 years of ownership, I did the brakes once which included the parking brakes, normal oil changes, wiper blades, filters and fluids. I had the dealership replace the headliner clips due to a rattle around the pano glass, which was resolved when the clips were replaced. I had replace the steering plastic coupler because its plastic and they are known to break. I never suffered any other issues with that vehicle. When compared to my personal Acura, it's been more reliable. Even when I worked for Acura, it was still more reliable than all the crap we had to warranty and fix. Honestly, it was the most reliable vehicle I had owned. I'm part of many different groups including stinger pages. They are solid and a lot of them are driven hard. I really like the refresh Stinger. They did a great job. Not sure if it will have the updated engines which make more power than the current engines. I really wanted a 2019 GT2 stinger and test drove one. It was definitely a quick car and fun to drive. My wife didn't want another KIA due to the PTSD from the accident. She wanted the X3 but I wanted to test drive other vehicles as well. Ranging from RDX to Jeep GC, Edge ST, Macan S, GLC 43, GLE 43, S4, C43, TLX A-spec ect. By the end of two weeks, I was exhausted. To be honest, every time I see a stinger, I still say WOW, what a beautiful stinger.
I really and truly appreciate the kind words and it means a lot to me. thank you! Your character speaks for itself! As someone who was also an ASE master certified technician with over 12 years of pushing wrenches from all vehicles from A to Z and worked for several Dealerships, I've experienced a lot which is why I say things from experience. I don't just say crap just to say it nor am I brand loyal. I love what I've owned and currently own because it works for my wife and I. I always said I WILL NEVER OWN GERMAN, only Japanese vehicles. Guess what, over time my perspective changed and what made certain brands popular lost their footing. I owned a 95 (Stillen) 5-speed Maxima. The A32 was one of the best Maxima's made. It introduced one of the best made engines, VQ series. I briefly owned a 96 S500 Mercedes and man what a vehicle. I remember doing spark plugs and wires on that engine (back in high school) and it blew my mind the engineering that went into that vehicle. I was in love with my parents 93 Volvo 850 GLT with a 5 speed manual. I wanted a C70 coupe for the longest time. My parents ended up getting a 2003 Nissan Pathfinder LE and it was an amazing SUV and it had its own common issues with a half ass design to replace the front rotors. 1st real German vehicle I owned for 5 years was a 2006 ML350 which was a work horse. It was such a solid feeling vehicle and incredibly quiet on the highway. It did suffer all the common issues and the repair costs were high. The 2011 Optima we owned was a great vehicle as well, though the 2.4 engine was a terrible choice because it was balls slow but overall a great vehicle and ended up saving my wifes life. I replaced the ML mercedes with a 2018 BMW X3 xdrive30i and two years later it's been solid. My wife loved the X3 that she really wanted one as well. I didn't want another base model, so I found a loaded 19 M40i which is incredible and hasn't given me any issues. I love my TL which is why I still own it after 14 years and it being in pristine condition. When my wife and I were looking for her replacement, we test drove every single vehicle that we were both interested in. From sedans to SUV's. I really wanted to get a stinger but she didn't want another KIA (mainly due to the accident, PTSD). Down the road from now, who knows where Acura is going to be. They might make vehicles that would bring me back. For right now I own my vehicles. They are here for many years ahead. Whatever you and your wife decide on next, will be the best choice for you two. Regardless of what it is because at the end of the day, it only matters to you two.
So you have an extensive background on cars. And seeing your other post contained with logic, that's the reason I don't really question you when it comes to your post. With the wife, she's Acura. Through and Through. She's not the type to care about performance. Just as long as it has the features she wants. Lol. If the Type S doesn't have remote start and, she won't get it. The BMW, Audi and Mercedes don't have any of those features unless you add it for more money. Nope.
Originally Posted by 4G-Lover
Problem is that Acura (and Honda for that matter), as far as I remember, has never surprised on the upside when it comes to acceleration compared to the advertised power. Is not BMW
355 HP should realistically put it into the mid-high 4.
The Accord 2.0 came out actually putting down more power than what they said it did. Same with the Type R, Civic 1.5(EX-T and Touring), and Civic Si. So yeah. I'll wait to see about the actual numbers before I show any kind of real disappointment.
All purchased brand new. Have owned lots of other cars as well, which helps to put things into perspective. I don’t remember any Acura that impressed in a magazine road test other than the original NSX and maybe the odd Integra here or there. But anyway, the new Type S might drive great, have excellent NVH, be priced right and all that. But if it’s underpowered relative to its competition, it’ll be a tough sell (to loyal customers like me).
Well you have to kee in mind, Acura isn't the type to throw out crazy HP numbers. they never been. Subtlety. That's their game. That's what it's always been. I'm just happy they got over the 300hp mark. Sure they kind of did with the RL/RLX and TL SH-AWD. But seeing them do 355hp(claimed) on a turbo V6 isn't surprising. That's the kind of gains you get throwing a regular turbo kit on a car. You put a Turbonetics kit on a Civic D series, you're not going to jump up 150hp. Same with a supercharger. You'll get a good 50-75hp gain until you tune it.
I do not know anyone that owns a KIA so I appreciate the response. So reading this on top doing some research that KIA has turned a corner a few years back and is actually one of the better brands on the market. So after reading this forum I am iffy on the Type S as far as the first year since nobody knows the realiability of this car with a new engine. So now I have came down to wait and test drive the 2.0T along with the Stinger and go from there. It’s crazy cause I glanced at a few stinger forums and people have been able to get the GT2 brand new for 38k. I do not know if it will be possible to get a new TLX for that price. I do not know if Acura will be willing to come down as much as Kia. I just really want to see the TLX in person already. Thanks for the link by the way. I just read it right now and maintenance is cheaper than I expected.
As an owner of many first year Honda/Acura models, I would advise to stay away and if you want one wait a few years. Some may ask why I/we kept buying first year models and in many cases it was out of sudden necessity like a car dying, being more expensive to fix it vs getting something else... It's been a catch 22 because the cars ran for a long time but they were far from trouble free during that time and you didn't see the same issues with the later years.
Staying away from any new vehicle for the first year is usually sage advice. However, the 2.0 TLX is using retuned versions of the 2.0 turbo and the 10 speed automatic from the RDX which has been on the market for two model years. It also includes the RDX infotainment system which has been upgraded based on issues identified in the first two years of operation. That leaves an improved chasis and suspension, all of which should be easy to evaluate by test driving the vehicle thouroughly, as would any concerns about fit and finish. As for the 3.0 turbo engine, thorough test driving tells you what you would need to know about performance. Concerns about longevity would be considerably less for leasers vs purchasers.
As my current lease isn't up for two years, I would be more than likely waiting at least a year should I determine the second gen TLX is still for me.
But aren't those Korean ... like Hyundai ? I've always thought the Koreans are good at "copying" (and not just cars) and apparently have some good body designers/copiers (yes, they "look" pretty). I suggest you rent one before you buy one.
I really hope you did the same with your new 2021 TLX. Being a first year model, don't expect perfection from Acura. Honda is kinda slow to respond to potential major problems.
I would advise to stay away and if you want one wait a few years.
The 2014-MDX was also "all new" . Ours was one of the first off the assembly line. It was a good SUV and mostly trouble-free (nothing major either in 6-years of ownership).
I used to think like you. Problem is, if you think:
- Don't buy 1st-2nd year of "all new model".
- Don't buy this year because (refreshed) all-new-model is coming next year
There is hardly ever a good year to buy one. That is one of the reasons I stick to a known reputable brand like Acura. It's not their first rodeo.
I think MapleLoaf covered why most risk is removed with this particular car (2021-TLX , 2.0T)
I do not know anyone that owns a KIA so I appreciate the response. So reading this on top doing some research that KIA has turned a corner a few years back and is actually one of the better brands on the market. So after reading this forum I am iffy on the Type S as far as the first year since nobody knows the realiability of this car with a new engine. So now I have came down to wait and test drive the 2.0T along with the Stinger and go from there. It’s crazy cause I glanced at a few stinger forums and people have been able to get the GT2 brand new for 38k. I do not know if it will be possible to get a new TLX for that price. I do not know if Acura will be willing to come down as much as Kia. I just really want to see the TLX in person already. Thanks for the link by the way. I just read it right now and maintenance is cheaper than I expected.
I had posted a while back brand new GT2 Stingers selling for 40K which is insane for the amount of vehicle you get for that money. If you can get past the badge, it's money well spent IMO.
It has everything you need and then some. Even rear heated seats, which our Optima had and our X3 M40i has, it's a great feature for passengers on a cold day. I'd have my passengers say "wow, rear heated seats! that's awesome!" . On a hot summer day, the cooled front seats make a difference. I couldn't get another vehicle without this option and we got lucky the X3 M40i we bought had this option. Even the heads up display, is such a bad ass option and the stinger has it. It's really worth getting the GT2, if you can find it new in the low 40's and slightly used even in the mid 30's. Think about it this way, Doug Demuro sold his Mercedes AMG E63 wagon and bought a GT Stinger. This is a guy who has reviewed COUNTLESS vehicles from A to Z and still bought a KIA. Here is his video.
EDIT: He makes a valid point, the same point I've been making. For 40K, you should get a vehicle that has everything you want. It's the same reason I looked at the stinger with the rest of my list as mentioned above. To be clear, I don't want a new vehicle, I prefer buying slightly used. 45K was my budget and we bought the 2019 X3 M40i about 47K out the door.
Last edited by 04WDPSeDaN; 08-18-2020 at 12:08 PM.
The 2014-MDX was also "all new" . Ours was one of the first off the assembly line. It was a good SUV and mostly trouble-free (nothing major either in 6-years of ownership).
I used to think like you. Problem is, if you think:
- Don't buy 1st-2nd year of "all new model".
- Don't buy this year because (refreshed) all-new-model is coming next year
There is hardly ever a good year to buy one. That is one of the reasons I stick to a known reputable brand like Acura. It's not their first rodeo.
I think MapleLoaf covered why most risk is removed with this particular car (2021-TLX , 2.0T)
Refreshed all-new-model is an oxymoron. If it's refreshed, it ain't an all-new-model. To that point, the MMC year is a great buy because you have the new refreshed product but all the kinks should have been worked out already.
The benefit of not buying a year 1 model is also so you can wait and see if there are problems that crop out. If not, you can jump in at year 2, and if there were problems in year 1, you can continue waiting until they get resolved. The 1G TLX is a great example of this. For all intents and purposes it should have been fairly reliable given that the engine, SHAWD sytem, platform, and infotainment system were all largely used in other products. Disregarding the transmission problems, there still were issues with the VCM and with the driveshaft that caused vibrations in those 2015 cars. It wasn't until the MMC in 2018 that the transmission issues started to be ironed out.
While I'm glad the prices of these cars are coming down to Earth, I also want to see these dealership take a huge bath on these cars. Yeah, I know it's counterproductive because it means Kia won't build cars like this anymore, but some of these dealership really do deserve it for how they treated (or mistreated) prospective customers who were interested in the car in the first year or two.
Cool graph, thanks for posting. Knew that ~30% of new vehicle sales were leased but didn't know by the manufacturer.
Wall Street Journal had a great article back in the 2000's that got into how BMW got into corporate leasing in the 80's.
BMW learned many hard lessons (like losing money for the first several years mostly by getting vehicles ready for resale).
The other German auto makers watched BMW for awhile then they jumped into manufacturer leasing as well.
Originally Posted by Tesla1856
The 2014-MDX was also "all new" . Ours was one of the first off the assembly line. It was a good SUV and mostly trouble-free (nothing major either in 6-years of ownership).
I used to think like you. Problem is, if you think:
- Don't buy 1st-2nd year of "all new model".
- Don't buy this year because (refreshed) all-new-model is coming next year
There is hardly ever a good year to buy one. That is one of the reasons I stick to a known reputable brand like Acura. It's not their first rodeo.
I think MapleLoaf covered why most risk is removed with this particular car (2021-TLX , 2.0T)
+1
last three Honda's we got were all first year (2003 Pilot, 2016 Civic, 2017 CR-V). The Pilot has been the most reliable/dependable carefree vehicle we've ever had with 18 years of ownership and ~320k miles.
The CR-V has had a occasionally glitchy fob issues and the shifter button broke (recall for that). Civic has been fine. In '86 wife (g/f at the time) got a first year Integra which we had for ~250k trouble free miles and 18 years before donating it.
Honda/Acura have been at this for awhile, I'd have no concern getting a first year vehicle from either brand. My only slight concern has been with their turbo, DI and CVT tech. So far they're holding up OK with the Civic and CR-V.
The biggest issue I've seen and heard about in most modern vehicles is electronics in the long term. It's becoming harder and harder to work on some modern vehicles by yourself, no matter the manufacturer.
No manufacturer is perfect but some are better than others at introducing mostly trouble-free 1st year intros
While I'm glad the prices of these cars are coming down to Earth, I also want to see these dealership take a huge bath on these cars. Yeah, I know it's counterproductive because it means Kia won't build cars like this anymore, but some of these dealership really do deserve it for how they treated (or mistreated) prospective customers who were interested in the car in the first year or two.
Hear hear!! But, as you stated, ultimately it hurts the enthusiast crowd as the manufacturer will see it as lack of interest and ultimately kill off, and no longer produce, these types of cars in the future. Heck, I remember hearing someone state a theory a while back about domestic vehicles that I still can't shake, which I have no empirical evidence towards, but it makes sense to me. *dons tinfoil hat* They said American manufacturers will purposely inflate the prices of their vehicles. You sort of see it when you look at some of these MSRP's. They do it on purpose knowing that most people are going to bargain down the price as its a common concept that "nobody pays sticker." So, when you get $5k off "sticker" people feel happy because they got a good deal, meanwhile, the manufacturer actually bumped up the sticker so the actual hit in profit is nominal for both the dealer and the manufacturer. This is most evident when they have these end of year deals that are insane ... especially on some of these trucks where incentives are up to $12k off some of these things. Makes you wonder ...
I doubt I'll ever buy another domestic car again in my lifetime ... but who knows ... I may not be strong enough to resist the upcoming Z06 depending on how it looks. That purchase won't be until well down the road tho, likely no earlier than the time when they start releasing the C9. That is, until I read about the plethora of issues I'm sure it's bound to have (it's a GM product at the end of the day, after all).
+1
last three Honda's we got were all first year (2003 Pilot, 2016 Civic, 2017 CR-V). The Pilot has been the most reliable/dependable carefree vehicle we've ever had with 18 years of ownership and ~320k miles.
The CR-V has had a occasionally glitchy fob issues and the shifter button broke (recall for that). Civic has been fine. In '86 wife (g/f at the time) got a first year Integra which we had for ~250k trouble free miles and 18 years before donating it.
Honda/Acura have been at this for awhile, I'd have no concern getting a first year vehicle from either brand. My only slight concern has been with their turbo, DI and CVT tech. So far they're holding up OK with the Civic and CR-V.
The biggest issue I've seen and heard about in most modern vehicles is electronics in the long term. It's becoming harder and harder to work on some modern vehicles by yourself, no matter the manufacturer.
No manufacturer is perfect but some are better than others at introducing mostly trouble-free 1st year intros
90's and early 2000's were the golden era of Toyota and Honda. The quality, at least for Honda, has been quickly plummeting as of late.
Genesis ain’t a mainstream brand. It also ain’t a midsize car.
This is truly the most illogical answer I’ve ever seen on a forum. Genesis is simply a brand of Hyundai, every one of which in the U.S.is sold at Hyundai dealers In case you have not heard, Hyundai is one of the largest car manufacturers in the world. In fact, they are number three behind TOYOTA and VW.
As to “midsize”, it is a whopping three inches shorter than a 3 series. Google “Hyundai G70 Comparison” tests and tell me what other cars all the major magazines are comparing it to. Spoiler alert. They are all comparing it to the same cars that we have been comparing it to on this forum.
90's and early 2000's were the golden era of Toyota and Honda. The quality, at least for Honda, has been quickly plummeting as of late.
Meh, your results may vary.
The quality of our current Honda's is about the same as our older Honda's, as I'm expecting to get 200k+ miles on them (six so far with one 300k+)
I've looked around the 2016 Civic and 2017 CR-V at various components and all are in the same general level of quality as the older Honda's.
And that goes from "O" rings in the engine electrical connectors to the detent feel of the switches inside.
This is truly the most illogical answer I’ve ever seen on a forum. Genesis is simply a brand of Hyundai, every one of which in the U.S.is sold at Hyundai dealers In case you have not heard, Hyundai is one of the largest car manufacturers in the world. In fact, they are number three behind TOYOTA and VW.
As to “midsize”, it is a whopping three inches shorter than a 3 series. Google “Hyundai G70 Comparison” tests and tell me what other cars all the major magazines are comparing it to. Spoiler alert. They are all comparing it to the same cars that we have been comparing it to on this forum.
I think you are misunderstanding what mainstream means. Mainstream means it is not a luxury brand. Acura is not mainstream, but Honda is. Lexus is not mainstream, but Toyota is. Infiniti is not mainstream, Nissan is. Audi is not mainstream, VW is. Cadillac is not mainstream, Chevy is. Lincoln is not mainstream, Ford is. Alfa is not mainstream, Fiat is.
BTW, a 3-series is also not midsize. Everywhere you look, it is classified as a compact car (albeit on the larger end). The G70 is is 184 inches. The Civic is 183, the Corolla is 182, and the Jetta is 185. Are you telling me all those cars are midsize cars? Please.
Yeah, I don't understand the mainstream classification either. It may not be as premium as a Benz, but it's still a good step above the Accord. Just the superior NVH and available SH-AWD puts the TLX one solid category above. If someone wanted the TLX to be 3 or 4 categories above, unfortunately the Acura brand isn't for you. That said, the TLX Type-S might be the first Acura to really put some distance between themselves and their Honda brethren.
Wow, way to hijack this thread. More info on KIA/Genesis which has been beaten to death in this thread and many other TLX threads already. Can we stick to Type S.
Wow, way to hijack this thread. More info on KIA/Genesis which has been beaten to death in this thread and many other TLX threads already. Can we stick to Type S.
Shows how lackluster the new TLX is because of the information we have right now, as conversations keep heading towards other makes/models.
Wow, way to hijack this thread. More info on KIA/Genesis which has been beaten to death in this thread and many other TLX threads already. Can we stick to Type S.
There's not much to stick to, we've got maybe 2 paragraphs of information (and a whole lot of marketing speak and fluff) from Acura at most.
What do you expect us to talk about when Acura is being almost dead silent on the car. All we can do is compare and talk about what Acura has given us. Which is almost nothing up to this point. We can only talk about an audio system for so long. Last I checked Acura is still hush hush on the Type S. So blame Acura, not us users talking about other cars in the segment. If Acura wants us to keep talking they should have given us more already if a launch is in September. For giggles Ford gave us damn near all the information on the Bronco and that car does not release till next year. Yet Type S we still have not gotten concrete answers to what differentiates the Type S from the 2.0T outside of the engine and even then if I'm not mistaken they said: "the expected numbers" of the Type-S.
Originally Posted by dmski
Wow, way to hijack this thread. More info on KIA/Genesis which has been beaten to death in this thread and many other TLX threads already. Can we stick to Type S.
Originally Posted by leomio85View Post
So, to bring this back, info on the Ram TRX was officially released today. C&D predicted the $56k starting price. Actual starting price? $72k. You can go ahead and now literally wipe your ass with C&D's prediction that the Type S will start at $45k.
Originally Posted by jjsC5
Gee, i was planning to post and eat crow. But I don’t think I will now that you have made such a sh*tty comment
Don't think 45k is off base at all(by more than a couple k. What does a Ram TRX have to do with anything?
Regardless if you rush to be the first you will pay a premium. 45k should be possible by end of year 2021 unless demand is crazy and that's not likely.
....If you read between the line it was pretty much a widespread opinion in the media as well....do not kill the messenger....Acura pretty much admitted that reversing course with the 2G TLX.
....If you read between the line it was pretty much a widespread opinion in the media as well....do not kill the messenger....Acura pretty much admitted that reversing course with the 2G TLX.
It was a widespread opinion that the TLX is a mainstream (not premium or luxury) car? Can you point me to some reviews that state that, because most clearly call it out as an entry-level luxury car (which it is). Most call it out as not having the sporting pretensions that Acura advertised, but it's still a more premium offering than what you would get from mainstream brands
The new TLX, in total, is a solid midsize luxury sedan. It's a strong improvement on the TSX and gives up very little to the TL. What's more, it's more competitive in its class than ever before. On the other hand, the missed potential in this new car, both in terms of handling and design, gives us pause. While we don't see it putting the competition on notice, we can't deny that Acura customers will find a lot to like in this car.
The TLX is a better vehicle than both the TSX and the TL it replaces. It is roomy and comfortable but not big. It is very quiet and it has an amazing audio system. It is a vehicle full of wonderful technology that will never be appreciated. Both engines have good power and fuel economy. On the road the TLX is so reserved that deep thoughts will start going through your mind as if you are Matthew McConaughey, but it is nowhere as dreary as the Lexus ES. For those reasons, the TLX will keep the vast majority of returning TSX and TL buyers very happy. It is the people who are expecting a sport sedan that Acura says this is who will be disappointed.
As a result, we wouldn’t call the 2015 Acura TLX a driver’s car, but we think that it’s an excellent luxury car for shoppers who prioritize comfort, convenience and value over performance driving and sharp handling.
The TLX has the sort of quality and comfort that buyers expect from Honda and Acura, but with a much more refined and upscale feel than the outgoing TL and TSX. Better than that, the TLX gives provides much more value than its German – and even Japanese – competitors.
When Acura officials described to us their intention of building a luxury sport sedan that they themselves would be excited to drive, we knew their hearts were well-intentioned, but it wasn't clear if they could pull it off. After spending time behind the wheel, we think they've achieved their goal, creating an attractive, technologically-advanced package that's a compelling alternative to the segment stalwarts.
Nevertheless, the TLX offers as close to a total luxury package as you’re gonna find in the entry-level segment. It should definitely be in the mix if you’re in the market.
So, care to cite some examples of where they suggest it's no better than a mainstream midsize offering or that it's not a premium/luxury car?
I really hope you did the same with your new 2021 TLX. Being a first year model, don't expect perfection from Acura. Honda is kinda slow to respond to potential major problems.
And I promise to never post a negative comment about the (apparently good now) Korean cars ever again.
Actually, I know better. Not sure what I was thinking (other than trying to help).
Don't think 45k is off base at all(by more than a couple k. What does a Ram TRX have to do with anything?
Regardless if you rush to be the first you will pay a premium. 45k should be possible by end of year 2021 unless demand is crazy and that's not likely.
It has nothing to do with the Ram TRX and everything to do with C&D's ineptitude in predicting MSRP, which everyone is citing when referring to the proposed MSRP of the TLX-S.
The Charger Hellcat started at $67.5k. How they pulled $56k out of their hats as the starting price for a Hellcat powered Ram was nonsensical. Lo and behold, actual MSRP of $72k. The 1G V6 TLX A-Spec SH-AWD starts at $44.5k. Now they're projecting the starting MSRP of the Type-S will be the same price as the outgoing A-Spec? Acura has shown thru the current RDX that they're not charging less by replacing the 3.5L V6 with the 2.0L I4 turbo. Type S starting at just under $50k is far more logical.
If the build quality is as poor on the TLX as it is on my 3G RDX, I won't touch the goddamn thing unless I get an OTD price of under sticker. Judging by the fact that it's going to be assembled in the crosstown assembly plant in OH, it probably will be just as bad.
I think the $56K guess was based on the Raptor's starting price, which is $53K. Bear in mind, though, that price only gets you a supercab and a very very spartan base interior. I can only speculate, but my guess is that C&D thought that the TRX would also be offered in a similar configuration that's just as barebones. Instead, the "base" TRX is actually closer to a well equipped supercrew, which routinely sell for north of $70K.
Perhaps they didn't do their research and think Acura will offer a really basic Type-S model, in which case $45K is doable, but as we all know, the Type-S will be based on the A-spec (which itself is based on the Tech).
I think the $56K guess was based on the Raptor's starting price, which is $53K. Bear in mind, though, that price only gets you a supercab and a very very spartan base interior. I can only speculate, but my guess is that C&D thought that the TRX would also be offered in a similar configuration that's just as barebones. Instead, the "base" TRX is actually closer to a well equipped supercrew, which routinely sell for north of $70K.
Perhaps they didn't do their research and think Acura will offer a really basic Type-S model, in which case $45K is doable, but as we all know, the Type-S will be based on the A-spec (which itself is based on the Tech).
Yep, exactly ... they even cited the Raptor believing they would price it competitively, despite the over 250HP disparity. It probably would have been more logical to look at the base of a 4x4 Ram Rebel that starts around $48k and gone from there with the Hellcat engine and the rest of the goodies. That and the fact that not a single other vehicle with the Hellcat in it starts at under $60k.
From what it sounds like, Type S is going to be the A-Spec with the 3.0T V6, different styling and wheels along with suspension tuning. ~$50k makes the most sense and even then, the profit margin for the Type S will likely be less that the rest of the variants. We'll know for sure when pricing comes out for the A-Spec on the 2G. I suspect a minimum of a $5k premium over the A-Spec.
You can forget pricing for the Type S to start at $45K which is where the current Aspec lies. Just add another $4/5K. The question is whether Type S will have two trims - 1. Missing Advance features 2. All options thrown in with another price premium on top.
It was a widespread opinion that the TLX is a mainstream (not premium or luxury) car? Can you point me to some reviews that state that, because most clearly call it out as an entry-level luxury car (which it is). Most call it out as not having the sporting pretensions that Acura advertised, but it's still a more premium offering than what you would get from mainstream brands
I said, read between the lines and sometimes not even that much in between, and there are plenty cues that this was pretty much the opinion...let's have a look...
I will omit the parts where they point at the car lackluster performance and lack of real sport sedan capabilities which I think (hope) even you agree on.
"Nor can you make much of a case for the TLX’s ostensibly upscale interior. The TLX doesn’t come close to the refined vibe offered by the BMW 3-series and the new Mercedes-Benz C-class. Combined with the schizophrenic dual-screen infotainment system and its anti-intuitive mix of hard and touch-screen controls, it adds up to a package that feels like it’s trying too hard to convince itself that it’s more than an Accord with a thicker, richer layer of frosting. Ultimately, Acura needs to step even further away from Honda by offering products that might compel buyers to shop Acura first and foremost, as it did in the brand’s heyday."
The instrument panel’s small, pixilated information screen already looks dated, however, and Acura’s two-tiered center displays are busy, redundant, and distracting in use.
Within its luxury strata, the top-end TLX is comparable with other mid-size, all-wheel-drive entries such as the Buick Regal GS and the Lincoln MKZ. Wow, a MKZ competitor.
However, the less prestigious—yet 10Best-worthy—Honda Accord V-6 is still more enjoyable to drive.
With relatively affordable pricing along with plenty of standard and available features, the TLX tries to bridge the gap between those cars and mainstream mid-size four-doors. Think of it as the Japanese answer to the Buick Regal, and you’d not be far off the mark.Of greater consequence, the TLX is hobbled by its ho-hum appearance and its in-between position in the marketplace. The Acura fails to distinguish itself not only among its primary competition, but also relative to more affordable mainstream mid-size sedans including the Honda Accord to which it’s closely related. The TLX feels somewhat more refined and quieter, but even with its fancy dual-clutch gearbox, four-wheel steering, and torque-vectoring all-wheel drive, it fails to move the needle relative to mainstream family sedans and luxury players alike.
Verdict: Automotive wallpaper from the same company that sells the NSX supercar.
Ouch!
Consumer Report, which does not rely much on car maker advertising revenue and press vehicle is a bit more straightforward.
Poised to compete with segment heavy hitters, the Acura TLX doesn't have what it takes to play in the big leagues. While it is a good overall performer, the TLX lacks the engaging performance and panache found in other upscale sedans.
Measured against its European and Japanese rivals, the TLX's handling falls short and its ride isn't as comfortable. While the cabin is quieter than any Acura sedan to date, it is not as hushed, well finished, or luxurious as other models in this aspirational category. Some common features, like a four-way power-adjustable lumbar support for the driver seat, aren't even available. And Acura's clunky infotainment system is distracting and annoying, with two screens and an awkward mix of hard and virtual controls.
Here you have it.....at the end of the day is nothing more than a well built and quiet good mainstream sedan, if you look for a real premium or sport sedan experience, look elsewhere.
You can forget pricing for the Type S to start at $45K which is where the current Aspec lies. Just add another $4/5K. The question is whether Type S will have two trims - 1. Missing Advance features 2. All options thrown in with another price premium on top.
My theory is one trim and it will be an A-Spec with the Type-S engine and maybe some extras e.g. wheels, some stitching. But I will be really shocked if there is an Advance Type-S. Acura has always made consumers choose between sporty or luxury but rarely gave both, especially here in the U.S.
I think you are misunderstanding what mainstream means. Mainstream means it is not a luxury brand. Acura is not mainstream, but Honda is. Lexus is not mainstream, but Toyota is. Infiniti is not mainstream, Nissan is. Audi is not mainstream, VW is. Cadillac is not mainstream, Chevy is. Lincoln is not mainstream, Ford is. Alfa is not mainstream, Fiat is.
BTW, a 3-series is also not midsize. Everywhere you look, it is classified as a compact car (albeit on the larger end). The G70 is is 184 inches. The Civic is 183, the Corolla is 182, and the Jetta is 185. Are you telling me all those cars are midsize cars? Please.
Sorry for the late reply. I owe you an apology. I had to go back to your first post on the subject. My response was the one that was nonsensical. I didn’t take the time to read all the posts. My bad.
Has that been confirmed, or is that simply conjecture at this point?
I guess it is an educated guess that TLX will have the same infotainment HW as RDX, which is made by Denso based on TI's Jacinto EX platform
The next generation unit will be on MDX, and I am curious about how it will evolve. I hope they move to a more unified and integrated platform, instead of two separate domains that lead to various troubles in maintenance (no OTA on control units on CAN bus) and reliability (communication between CAN and MOST bus)
I guess it is an educated guess that TLX will have the same infotainment HW as RDX, which is made by Denso based on TI's Jacinto EX platform
The next generation unit will be on MDX, and I am curious about how it will evolve. I hope they move to a more unified and integrated platform, instead of two separate domains that lead to various troubles in maintenance (no OTA on control units on CAN bus) and reliability (communication between CAN and MOST bus)
I think the TLX will be very similar to the RDX. Probably with less issues as it's tested for 2 years. But the MDX will definitely be different and I would call it 2.0.
08-18-2020, 09:04 AM
+1
Meh, your results may vary.
