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It's been a while since I posted but I love my IS500 Launch Edition. According to the Lexus rep mine is the 1st customer acquired in my state (Michigan)
beautiful car. Always loved the IS. Have had multiple ones. Just wish it was a little wider up front and spacious
I was interested in a few cars, and was coming out of a BMW 540, but didn’t want to spend that much money this time. The TLX-s & G703.3 sport were at the top of the list. I’d like to have considered an S5 but they were hard to find and substantially more money. The IS500 would have been on the list but were too far away from hitting dealers.
I wound up leasing a loaded G70 that listed for $53,000. The truth is that if you take away the perceived stigma of it being a Hyundai, the car would still be a bargain at $60,000. It’s a fabulous car. I finally reached an age where I don’t give a shit about what other people think of what I drive.
I could care less of stigmas also. As Acura isn’t really seen as a pure luxury brand to me ( par to Lexus/bmw/etc.) either but they are reliable to me. I guess growing up , just experiencing the flaws with earlier hyundais left an impression on me that’s hard to shake. Same as bmw , was always convinced out of them by previous owners. One day I’ll venture out of Japanese. Otherwise I actually really like the genesis lineup.
IS and Stinger were thought about. Lexus = Toyota = reliable + luxury. I don’t like surprise repairs out of warranty so it was either Honda or Toyota for me. I enjoyed the driving dynamics of the Type-S which let me to pick it over the IS, but it was a toss-up really as each had their advantages and both are great vehicles.
Agreed, I’m similar. I’m usually only Toyota/Lexus or Honda/Acura. The Lexus IS handled well but the acura felt more complete. Plus it reminds of the GS which was more the size I got accustomed to. Imo the TLX Type S is like a sportier/ faster GS350 with little less luxurious interior.
What cars are really are the competition? Nissan Maxima, Accord? Not sure many Acura buyers even consider an A6 or any German car for that matter. Maybe a few but not the norm.
The bottom line is we don't know, we all have our own insight but does it cover the general population most probably not. Typically marketing research groups get hired to perform that for auto makers, most of whom are contracted out that task with NDA's.
As for the TLX, what's it's competition? I'd put it at everything from a Camry, Accord, Maxima, 3-series, C-class, ES, IS, A4, G70, 5-series, E-class, A6, S60, .....
But it's just a guess, companies who've done marketing research have far better insight than just a Internet forum with some very biased members especially in the TLC 2G forum.
I’m curious what people cross shopped before getting their cars. For me it was IS500 or TLX type S since Lexus discontinued their GS. Thought about a G70 but couldn’t go Hyundai for 50k+. Maybe 25k. As much as I always wanted the ISF, and previously having a 14 IS350, the IS500 just didn’t seem that special other than the engine. I forgot how small and compact the front of the car is. And it’s literally a cheaper looking interior imo than the first year (2014 ) of the new body. Plus it was like I would be spending 60+k to go back in the same car I had 7 years ago. I love Lexus but hopefully they change something with the IS and keep that v8 in the future. Slap a competent transmission to it and re design it
Well before I got my current 2016 TLX I was cross shopping it with a 2015 Lexus IS250 (or IS350 iirc) but ended up going with the TLX with heavy suggestion from my mom. Plus when I test drove my TLX I was sold on it due to the tech and torquey V6
From there before choosing to get the TLX Type-S, I cross-shopped with the 1G TLX A-Spec AWD but I was only gonna get the 1G A-Spec over the 2G Type-S if I could snag a PMC edition. But those are hard to come by as most owners aren’t selling them.
I’m curious what people cross shopped before getting their cars. For me it was IS500 or TLX type S since Lexus discontinued their GS. Thought about a G70 but couldn’t go Hyundai for 50k+. Maybe 25k. As much as I always wanted the ISF, and previously having a 14 IS350, the IS500 just didn’t seem that special other than the engine. I forgot how small and compact the front of the car is. And it’s literally a cheaper looking interior imo than the first year (2014 ) of the new body. Plus it was like I would be spending 60+k to go back in the same car I had 7 years ago. I love Lexus but hopefully they change something with the IS and keep that v8 in the future. Slap a competent transmission to it and re design it
I cross shopped the Q50 'Silver Sport', 330i and A4 before opting for the A-Spec. Honestly, I really have no regrets.....except for not opting to get SH-AWD (again), which would better handle the Phearable stage 3 tune that I have running on my FWD version. The Q50 is a good performer but just plain old feeling though I still like the aesthetics. And the 330i and A4 pretty much have the same visual appeal as the new Honda Civic sedan.
IF I were cross shopping a Type S, it would be a tough for me to pass up on the M340i given its relative performance plus some of the discounts I've come across...and especially in consideration of Type S markups. (Though I knocked the pedestrian appearance of the G20, the M340i's performance is enough to overlook my reservations here.)
As the for others in the segment, I do like the S5 SB but the ones for sale in my neck of the woods tend to sticker higher than the M340i xDrive (and well above the Type S). So that's an instant pass. Ultimately, the Type S is my second choice in the segment. The
For those who really care about acceleration performance, why was a M3P never considered? Much faster than anything in the price range by a significant margin.
For those who really care about acceleration performance, why was a M3P never considered? Much faster than anything in the price range by a significant margin.
I could care less of stigmas also. As Acura isn’t really seen as a pure luxury brand to me ( par to Lexus/bmw/etc.) either but they are reliable to me. I guess growing up , just experiencing the flaws with earlier hyundais left an impression on me that’s hard to shake. Same as bmw , was always convinced out of them by previous owners. One day I’ll venture out of Japanese. Otherwise I actually really like the genesis lineup.
I’m old enough to remember when anything made in Japan was considered junk. Hyundai brands have great quality ratings now. I’ve owned BMW cars and motorcycles. I’ve had quality issues with them. I know that all brands have outliers, but in the case of BMWs, of the five BMWs, all but one had quality issues. I’ve owned probably 40 Japanese vehicles and I really don’t remember quality issues with any of them. I’ll guess that I had to have had a couple, but it has to be damn few for me not to remember any.
I’m too new to Genesis to have enough first hand knowledge, but all indications are that they are at, or near the top in reliability. So fat I love the car though. And I’m VERY picky.
The Tesla's are quick, infact IIRC the fastest street stock car to 60 is a Tesla Plaid @ about 2.1 seconds. I believe based on my observation on my regular beach runs they still have a range issue One other series also joins them, the Dodge Hellcat & Demon based cars based on the headlight rings.
The distance from Raleigh to the Outer Banks & the Brunswick Islands is a bit over 200 miles. Normal traffic flows around 85mph on the interstate. This includes SUV's, sedans, TLX, pickups, sports cars, motorcycles etc. Missing from this flow are Tesla, Hellcats & Demons. You will pass by a very large number running along at 60/65MPH or so against the 70mph limit in the right hand lane. Only reason I can think of is range issues if they run quickly.
This is not a one time thing but everytime I make the run in either direction. Will be a long time before they force me into an EV. Today think the only electrics worth anything are Hybrid's
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 02-20-2022 at 02:08 PM.
The Tesla's are quick, infact IIRC the fastest street stock car to 60 is a Tesla Plaid @ about 2.1 seconds. I believe based on my observation on my regular beach runs they still have a range issue One other series also joins them, the Dodge Hellcat & Demon based cars based on the headlight rings.
The distance from Raleigh to the Outer Banks & the Brunswick Islands is a bit over 200 miles. Normal traffic flows around 85mph on the interstate. This includes SUV's, sedans, TLX, pickups, sports cars, motorcycles etc. Missing from this flow are Tesla, Hellcats & Demons. You will pass by a very large number running along at 60/65MPH or so against the 70mph limit in the right hand lane. Only reason I can think of is range issues if they run quickly.
This is not a one time thing but everytime I make the run in either direction. Will be a long time before they force me into an EV. Today think the only electrics worth anything are Hybrid's
They typically have a range of over 300 miles. If you are on a long road trip exceeding that, there are plenty of places that have charging stations while you eat considering 300 miles is 4+ hours of driving. So range is a non-issue for most drivers.
But this perfectly demonstrates how people have other priorities than being the fastest car on the block. 😉Personal preferences pick cars, not numbers.
They typically have a range of over 300 miles. If you are on a long road trip exceeding that, there are plenty of places that have charging stations while you eat considering 300 miles is 4+ hours of driving. So range is a non-issue for most drivers.
But this perfectly demonstrates how people have other priorities than being the fastest car on the block. 😉Personal preferences pick cars, not numbers.
Question I would ask is why would I buy something that would make a 200 mile 2.4 hour trip into a 3.2 hour trip? I can make a run down turn around & drive home never stop for gas. When I do fill I am in & out in 10 minutes.
Have no idea what the real range is but running at 85 with the A/C on is not something I have seen many Tesla's or big Dodges doing. This is NC will be 70*F & sunny tomorrow. Sun is already strong so cars heat up even at lower temperatures. So it seems that the drivers are voting with their right foot about what their ranges is.
BMW The Tesla, Demons & Hellcats are the fastest cars on the block but like most things auto there are trade-offs.
I’m old enough to remember when anything made in Japan was considered junk. Hyundai brands have great quality ratings now. I’ve owned BMW cars and motorcycles. I’ve had quality issues with them. I know that all brands have outliers, but in the case of BMWs, of the five BMWs, all but one had quality issues. I’ve owned probably 40 Japanese vehicles and I really don’t remember quality issues with any of them. I’ll guess that I had to have had a couple, but it has to be damn few for me not to remember any.
I’m too new to Genesis to have enough first hand knowledge, but all indications are that they are at, or near the top in reliability. So fat I love the car though. And I’m VERY picky.
That’s awesome. I’m starting to warm up to them. My girlfriend has one now going on 3 years and it’s been problem free. I haven’t been with Acura since mid 2000s when I had the RSX type S. That car was probably the most reliable car I ever had. Then it was mostly Lexus since then. Lexus is awesome for me. Really wanted to get that IS500, but I just couldn’t get sold on the same car I had 7-8 years ago with a bigger motor over the new comfortable, sexy TLX. Maybe I’ll swap back over one day to it, as I’m a diehard Lexus guy but for now I’ll enjoy the Type S.
It's been a while since I posted but I love my IS500 Launch Edition. According to the Lexus rep mine is the 1st customer acquired in my state (Michigan)
Nice looking IS500. One of the best looking sport sedans on the market today. Enjoy the V8!
Length of time cars kept by brand (RankMakeManufacturer# Years of Ownership (Avg.)):
1 Toyota Toyota Motor Corporation 9.0
2 Honda Honda Motor Co. 8.9
3 Mercedes-Benz Daimler AG 8.7
4 Ram Fiat Chrysler Automobiles 8.7
5 Acura Honda Motor Co. 8.6
6 Nissan Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi Alliance 8.4
7 Porsche Volkswagen Group 8.4
8 Chrysler Fiat Chrysler Automobiles 8.4
9 Ford Ford Motor Co. 8.3
10 Mazda Mazda Motor Corp. 8.3
11 Jeep Fiat Chrysler Automobiles 8.3
12 Volvo Zhejiang Geely Holding Group 8.2
13 BMW BMW Group 8.2
14 Subaru Subaru Corp. 8.2
15 Chevrolet General Motors 8.1
16 Cadillac General Motors 8.1
17 Hyundai Hyundai Motor Group 8.0
18 Volkswagen Volkswagen Group 8.0
19 Dodge Fiat Chrysler Automobiles 7.9
20 GMC General Motors 7.9
The reliable brand rankings per KBB: https://www.kbb.com/car-news/consume...oln-the-least/ RankingBrandScore
1 Lexus 76
2 Mazda 75
3 Toyota 71
4 Infiniti 69
5 Buick 66
6 Honda 66
7 Subaru 66
8 Acura 64
9 Nissan 63
10 Mini 60
11 Hyundai 56
12 Chrysler 54
13 Porsche 52
14 Chevy 48
15 Audi 47
16 Cadillac 47
17 BMW 45
18 Ford 44
19 Kia 43
20 Volvo 42
21 Ram 40
22 GMC 37
23 Mercedes-Benz 34
24 Volkswagen 31
25 Genesis 30
26 Jeep 26
27 Tesla 25
28 Lincoln 18
That’s why most people lease the top ranked repair costers. To avoid the out of warranty headaches.
I really wish they'd break down these lists rather than just throw names out there. There's many factors involved here, Brands like Mercedes, BMW etc have high performance and big luxury cars that will always cost more to maintain than the rest of their line up. Who else has a line up like Porsche, BMW, Mercedes full of high performance turbo cars and 6 figure an up line ups? That plays a big part into cost of maintenance which skews these rankings. Of course an M8 will cost more to maintain than a 330i or an E63 AMG will be more than a C300. I'd like to see a comparison of maintenance to the cars in their class by brand I bet it won't be that much different.
I really wish they'd break down these lists rather than just throw names out there. There's many factors involved here, Brands like Mercedes, BMW etc have high performance and big luxury cars that will always cost more to maintain than the rest of their line up. Who else has a line up like Porsche, BMW, Mercedes full of high performance turbo cars and 6 figure an up line ups? That plays a big part into cost of maintenance which skews these rankings. Of course an M8 will cost more to maintain than a 330i or an E63 AMG will be more than a C300. I'd like to see a comparison of maintenance to the cars in their class by brand I bet it won't be that much different.
Lexus is almost the least expensive brand to maintain, although their cars are comparable in price to the other “luxury” brands. And by far. But why don’t we also ask for more descriptive information all the time, not only when German cars don’t fare well just so we don’t have a double standard.
Last edited by richii0207; 02-21-2022 at 07:00 PM.
Length of time cars kept by brand (RankMakeManufacturer# Years of Ownership (Avg.)):
1 Toyota Toyota Motor Corporation 9.0
2 Honda Honda Motor Co. 8.9
3 Mercedes-Benz Daimler AG 8.7
4 Ram Fiat Chrysler Automobiles 8.7
5 Acura Honda Motor Co. 8.6
6 Nissan Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi Alliance 8.4
7 Porsche Volkswagen Group 8.4
8 Chrysler Fiat Chrysler Automobiles 8.4
9 Ford Ford Motor Co. 8.3
10 Mazda Mazda Motor Corp. 8.3
11 Jeep Fiat Chrysler Automobiles 8.3
12 Volvo Zhejiang Geely Holding Group 8.2
13 BMW BMW Group 8.2
14 Subaru Subaru Corp. 8.2
15 Chevrolet General Motors 8.1
16 Cadillac General Motors 8.1
17 Hyundai Hyundai Motor Group 8.0
18 Volkswagen Volkswagen Group 8.0
19 Dodge Fiat Chrysler Automobiles 7.9
20 GMC General Motors 7.9
Lexus is almost the least expensive brand to maintain, although their cars are comparable in price to the other “luxury” brands. And by far. But why don’t we also ask for more descriptive information all the time, not only when German cars don’t fare well just so we don’t have a double standard.
Not a double standard the one list is overall brand the other list is the actual car model. I would expect that Lexus has a lot of parts common to both Lexus & Toyota down to engines & transmissions. Standalone brands like BMW have to eat 100% the cost. That said the cost listed is over 10 years & is an estimate. Not counting brakes, tires or oil changes have had 2 BMW's over 9 years each & did not have over $2500 out of pocket in either one.
Would it not be unreasonable for a brand that sells cars running up to $150,000 or so to be more expensive to fix? Yeah, but would really like to see what's in the BMW $17,800. I could buy an engine for that much money.
CR Which Car Brands Make the Best Vehicles?
We ranked 32 brands based on the Overall Scores of their models, which include road tests, reliability, satisfaction, and safety
Rank
1 Subaru
2 Mazda
3 BMW
4 Honda
5 Lexus
6 Audi
7 Porsche
8 Mini
9 Toyota
10 Infiniti
11 Buick
12 Acura
13 Chrysler
14 Hyundai
15 Nissan
16 Dodge
17 Volkswagen
18 Kia
19 Genesis
20 Volvo
21 Cadillac
22 Ford
23 Tesla
24 Chevrolet
25 Mercedes-Benz
26 Lincoln
27Jaguar
28 Alfa Romeo
29 Land Rover
30 Mitsubishi
31 GMC
32 Jeep
Not a double standard the one list is overall brand the other list is the actual car model. I would expect that Lexus has a lot of parts common to both Lexus & Toyota down to engines & transmissions. Standalone brands like BMW have to eat 100% the cost. That said the cost listed is over 10 years & is an estimate. Not counting brakes, tires or oil changes have had 2 BMW's over 9 years each & did not have over $2500 out of pocket in either one.
Would it not be unreasonable for a brand that sells cars running up to $150,000 or so to be more expensive to fix? Yeah, but would really like to see what's in the BMW $17,800. I could buy an engine for that much money.
CR Which Car Brands Make the Best Vehicles?
We ranked 32 brands based on the Overall Scores of their models, which include road tests, reliability, satisfaction, and safety
Rank
1 Subaru
2 Mazda
3 BMW
4 Honda
5 Lexus
6 Audi
7 Porsche
8 Mini
9 Toyota
10 Infiniti
11 Buick
12 Acura
13 Chrysler
14 Hyundai
15 Nissan
16 Dodge
17 Volkswagen
18 Kia
19 Genesis
20 Volvo
21 Cadillac
22 Ford
23 Tesla
24 Chevrolet
25 Mercedes-Benz
26 Lincoln
27Jaguar
28 Alfa Romeo
29 Land Rover
30 Mitsubishi
31 GMC
32 Jeep
So Subaru is the best according to that list, followed by Mazda?
I would love to know how CR came up with that list.
Probably stood outside of Subaru and Mazda corporate HQ and asked them to take a survey.
The way they take the survey is they send a hard copy & a URL for the computer version out to owners of the cars. Don't know about their own testing how much it weighs in.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 02-21-2022 at 08:36 PM.
Top #1 to bottom #20 is only a 1.1 year spread. Pretty much a non event.
Maybe to you, but the spread is only one way of looking at the list. The brands that actually made it on there and/or where they ranked relative to others were more interesting to think about.
Considering the crap I've seen people talk about Ram and Chrysler, for example, I was surprised to see them ranked as highly as they were. Then considering the praise I've generally seen for GMC, I expected them to be higher. Any number of factors go into those numbers, but it's still interesting to see an aggregate view anyway.
Edit: I'd also say that this list implies at a very high level that many vehicles are generally well made and as much as we're debating performance, etc. around these parts, cars in general are the best they've ever been (some exceptions in there of course).
Last edited by norsairius; 02-21-2022 at 08:43 PM.
Maybe to you, but the spread is only one way of looking at the list. The brands that actually made it on there and/or where they ranked relative to others were more interesting to think about.
Considering the crap I've seen people talk about Ram and Chrysler, for example, I was surprised to see them ranked as highly as they were. Then considering the praise I've generally seen for GMC, I expected them to be higher. Any number of factors go into those numbers, but it's still interesting to see an aggregate view anyway.
Lets not conflate ownership with quality. There are tons of other factors that go into ownership duration aside from quality/durability, such as the desire to even own something for that long, or the inability to replace the car for financial reasons. Some of it is self-selection as well; for instance, buyers of the LC are planning to own the car for decades, which is why they bought the LC to begin with, whereas the owners of the mechanically identical LX likely have a different mindset.
Lets not conflate ownership with quality. There are tons of other factors that go into ownership duration aside from quality/durability, such as the desire to even own something for that long, or the inability to replace the car for financial reasons. Some of it is self-selection as well; for instance, buyers of the LC are planning to own the car for decades, which is why they bought the LC to begin with, whereas the owners of the mechanically identical LX likely have a different mindset.
Sure, makes sense. Though I'd also believe that the large sample size of ~5M used car sales transactions that the site used to put together the data accounts for that to some extent. Unless an argument to be made is that the vast majority of, say, the Chrysler transactions in that sample size are from people who were forced into keeping their vehicles for however long they did. We can't know for sure unless this website collected customer satisfaction, purchase intent, and/or quality/reliability data with each of these transactions. We can probably make generalizations by looking at another party's customer satisfaction/reliability data though. I think in general, considering the larger sample size, the aggregate data makes a case for showing positive correlation between customer satisfaction and length of ownership which I believe is at least one angle the website is trying to present.
That said, if we're going to question if ownership = quality, then it would make sense to question that for all the rankings from this website just as everyone seems to be trying to poke holes at all the other rankings/data being posted here. The statement they made about the 3-series, for example, doesn't seem to explicitly point to quality or reliability, but more so that people have enough pride in it that they may be keeping it around to get their money's worth out of it: “The compact BMW 3 Series is often a car buyer’s entry into luxury car ownership, so buyers might splurge on purchasing and keep it running as long as possible” - if anything, one way to read "splurge on purchasing and keep it running as long as possible" seems to imply that part of that splurge is keeping it running. That said, I would say this points to customer satisfaction though because if they're keeping cars so long even if it's implied that there's higher maintenance or repair costs, then I assume it could be said for at least some that they like them.
Last edited by norsairius; 02-21-2022 at 09:05 PM.
02-19-2022, 08:49 AM
The Q50 is a good performer but just plain old feeling though I still like the aesthetics. And the 330i and A4 pretty much have the same visual appeal as the new Honda Civic sedan. 
