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[QUOTE=ELIN;16888843]Not sure Acura can ever be 90% of BMW again. I'm fairly new to the BMW brand but the technology that is available is far superior than Acura has at the moment. Just some examples:
1) For '24 X5s, semi-autonomous driving up to 85 mph is available (last year's models were only up to 40 mph). Don't care.
2) Customizable, all digital dash (has been around for a while). Dislike digital dash, so don't care.
3) USB music from flash drive that works w/CP or AA simultaneously. All I need is AA, so meh.
4) iDrive is far superior to Acura's infotainment and can be confirmed by folks who've had both. No experience with it.
Oh, and did I mention that the base X5 engine has increased to 375 horsepower and 383 lb-ft of torque? Sounds great on paper, I'd have to drive it. I really loved BMW in the 90s and early 2000s, but I am not turned on by some of their designs and center stack layouts which made me look in another direction. I didn't like the 1G TLX interior design and passed on that entire generation 😕.
You need to be in the 3-row market, your money on the line, to appreciate the intrinsic value of MDX-S. And of course this market is constantly evolving, so as time goes by, MDX competitiveness goes down, and the price goes down in sync.
Funny enough, I'm in the market for a 3-row SUV but I would never get an MDX again (had an '18 Tech). When I had it, it was still the "small car" as the family hauler was a GL450. Never really used the 3rd row of the MDX but when I did, it was impractical to use the cargo area and would never qualify as a family hauler for road trips where multiple luggage is present. Yes, you can always put a THULE carrier up top but I'm a fan of keeping the roof clear.
I'll say this. Although not apples to apples, my brother is up for the weekend with his "old" 2012 BMW X5 with a little over 134k on the clock. I changed out his air filter for him and took it to the gym, taking my normal route. Being 8yrs older and with 110k more miles on it ... his BMW rides nicer, has less wind noise, less tire noise and less rattles than my still relatively, garage-kept RDX. Granted, an X3 would be a more fair comparison, but it's not like we're talking about cars even in the same stratosphere of wear & tear and mileage.
For those constantly harping on the value of Acura ... the "value" is in worse quality. I can't stand the pompous assholes who go on and on about "superior German engineering," since I wrenched on them and saw some of the goddam dumbest shit ever designed simply to make them difficult to work on. But, from what I've seen, the extra money is in the build quality that is in a different league than Acura's.
I'll say this. Although not apples to apples, my brother is up for the weekend with his "old" 2012 BMW X5 with a little over 134k on the clock. I changed out his air filter for him and took it to the gym, taking my normal route. Being 8yrs older and with 110k more miles on it ... his BMW rides nicer, has less wind noise, less tire noise and less rattles than my still relatively, garage-kept RDX. Granted, an X3 would be a more fair comparison, but it's not like we're talking about cars even in the same stratosphere of wear & tear and mileage.
For those constantly harping on the value of Acura ... the "value" is in worse quality. I can't stand the pompous assholes who go on and on about "superior German engineering," since I wrenched on them and saw some of the goddam dumbest shit ever designed simply to make them difficult to work on. But, from what I've seen, the extra money is in the build quality that is in a different league than Acura's.
Despite having a larger exterior, the interior of the 2012 X5 is just about the same as the '23 X3. The cargo area of the '12 X5 is smaller than a modern X3 by 5 ft3, if you can believe that!
How's TLX so close to the RDX??? I do see more TLX's on the road lately as well. What really surprises me is that I frequently see MDX Type S in the wiild. I even saw 3 on a recent short drive, WTH.
The MDX Type S is definitely selling… I see about 2-4 everyday when I am driving. One of my coworkers drives a Black MDX Type S and my neighbor drives a Silver MDX Tech. I remember about a year ago when a user said the Type S products wouldn’t sell especially the MDX lol.
I'll say this. Although not apples to apples, my brother is up for the weekend with his "old" 2012 BMW X5 with a little over 134k on the clock. I changed out his air filter for him and took it to the gym, taking my normal route. Being 8yrs older and with 110k more miles on it ... his BMW rides nicer, has less wind noise, less tire noise and less rattles than my still relatively, garage-kept RDX. Granted, an X3 would be a more fair comparison, but it's not like we're talking about cars even in the same stratosphere of wear & tear and mileage.
For those constantly harping on the value of Acura ... the "value" is in worse quality. I can't stand the pompous assholes who go on and on about "superior German engineering," since I wrenched on them and saw some of the goddam dumbest shit ever designed simply to make them difficult to work on. But, from what I've seen, the extra money is in the build quality that is in a different league than Acura's.
X5 is not a fair comparison. For example 3G MDX with 6AT blows 3G RDX away especially in ride quality, NVH, and even powertrain response. That is just by design. The luxury gap between X3 and X5 is quite large, too large IMHO.
On the other hand, I have to agree 100% with you Acura needs to step up their build quality before paying attention to Mazda and what not. They need to tighten the tolerance on many exterior and interior parts, hold higher standard for vendors to follow. But we all know Honda is putting a knife on Acura to squeeze out margin to hit that 6% target. I think they just conveniently ignore the build quality issues and push them downstream to dealerships.
X5 is not a fair comparison. For example 3G MDX with 6AT blows 3G RDX away especially in ride quality, NVH, and even powertrain response. That is just by design. The luxury gap between X3 and X5 is quite large, too large IMHO.
On the other hand, I have to agree 100% with you Acura needs to step up their build quality before paying attention to Mazda and what not. They need to tighten the tolerance on many exterior and interior parts, hold higher standard for vendors to follow. But we all know Honda is putting a knife on Acura to squeeze out margin to hit that 6% target. I think they just conveniently ignore the build quality issues and push them downstream to dealerships.
Yep, that's why it's not exactly apples to apples ... but 110k more miles will do a lot to deteriorate NVH, ride and also the powertrain. Heck, the reason I changed the air filter was because he was complaining the car felt like it was struggling to make power.
With even 25k miles on the RDX, I've noticed a noticeable increase in road and wind noise. Part of it is the tires wearing, obviously, but also the seals and suspension wearing/hardening.
Aside from the "crackling" you get from that recycled plastic the Germans love using that hardens over time, the RDX's interior rattles will only grow more bountiful as time passes ... which I can only imagine how bad it will be when it's 11yrs old and/or 134k miles on it.
Yep, that's why it's not exactly apples to apples ... but 110k more miles will do a lot to deteriorate NVH, ride and also the powertrain. Heck, the reason I changed the air filter was because he was complaining the car felt like it was struggling to make power.
With even 25k miles on the RDX, I've noticed a noticeable increase in road and wind noise. Part of it is the tires wearing, obviously, but also the seals and suspension wearing/hardening.
Aside from the "crackling" you get from that recycled plastic the Germans love using that hardens over time, the RDX's interior rattles will only grow more bountiful as time passes ... which I can only imagine how bad it will be when it's 11yrs old and/or 134k miles on it.
At 30k, my A-Spec seems as solid as it was at day one....and I have worn tires, a bad axle and blown shock (currently undergoing warranty repair). Granted, I NEVER picked up on any of this but, never any odd sounds, rattles or any other indication. Thus, I largely attribute it to how solid this car is (as well as how unfortunate it is to drive on Jersey roads regularly).
The RDX loaner I now have (22 Tech SH-AWD) seems as solid as my TLX so, I would expect it age the same.
Yep, that's why it's not exactly apples to apples ... but 110k more miles will do a lot to deteriorate NVH, ride and also the powertrain. Heck, the reason I changed the air filter was because he was complaining the car felt like it was struggling to make power.
With even 25k miles on the RDX, I've noticed a noticeable increase in road and wind noise. Part of it is the tires wearing, obviously, but also the seals and suspension wearing/hardening.
Aside from the "crackling" you get from that recycled plastic the Germans love using that hardens over time, the RDX's interior rattles will only grow more bountiful as time passes ... which I can only imagine how bad it will be when it's 11yrs old and/or 134k miles on it.
Originally Posted by F23A4
At 30k, my A-Spec seems as solid as it was at day one....and I have worn tires, a bad axle and blown shock (currently undergoing warranty repair). Granted, I NEVER picked up on any of this but, never any odd sounds, rattles or any other indication. Thus, I largely attribute it to how solid this car is (as well as how unfortunate it is to drive on Jersey roads regularly).
The RDX loaner I now have (22 Tech SH-AWD) seems as solid as my TLX so, I would expect it age the same.
This right here is the issue with Acura's build quality and it is hit or miss. One would expect a few bad apples but from my experience it's much closer to 60/40 than 80/20. Acura/Honda have a good reputation because they rarely leave you stranded but so much other stuff can fall apart and show its age quickly. My '09 TSX Tech still runs like a champ but A) it had to have so much warranty work done over the years B) the paint and interior are falling apart and that is even after babying the car. I won't come down too hard on a car that is 14 years old and of course things will age and fall apart over time but when you compare it to itself and other models you start to see the inconsistencies.
My stance anymore is that Acura/Honda powertrains age well but not much else...but this can be a fair tradeoff depending on what you want out of a vehicle.
All in all, it seems to be solid for a 7 year old car.
Yeah I am realistic about a complicated machine that is exposed to extreme elements for over a decade now and can't be too picky at this stage. But with that being said some of it is clearly cheaply made and lots of QC issues.
Honestly, perusing Reddit every so often, the Integra far and away has the most posts about terrible interior quality (ie: rattles and other interior noises) than any other model I've seen. It could just be that some people are more sensitive to certain frequencies/noises than others. Like I said, my wife is oblivious to the rattles I complain about all the time. Also, the "crackling" of BMW's aged interiors don't bother me nearly as much as the sharp, plasticky ticking that my Acura makes.
My daily beater will spawn random phantom rattles that will literally happen for one commute and then never pop up again, or once every few months. It's really odd that one. Typical early-2000's American build quality (still mostly more solid than the Acura though).
Honestly, perusing Reddit every so often, the Integra far and away has the most posts about terrible interior quality (ie: rattles and other interior noises) than any other model I've seen. It could just be that some people are more sensitive to certain frequencies/noises than others. Like I said, my wife is oblivious to the rattles I complain about all the time. Also, the "crackling" of BMW's aged interiors don't bother me nearly as much as the sharp, plasticky ticking that my Acura makes.
My daily beater will spawn random phantom rattles that will literally happen for one commute and then never pop up again, or once every few months. It's really odd that one. Typical early-2000's American build quality (still mostly more solid than the Acura though).
I have the worst luck with rattles of my previous vehicles whether MINI,BMW, Honda, or Tesla. My CTR had a rattle on the door which I fixed with some padding and my M3P needed some padding for a wheel liner due to wind rattle. Of course both of my wife’s 3 series and MYLR has no rattles. :-P
I have the worst luck with rattles of my previous vehicles whether MINI,BMW, Honda, or Tesla. My CTR had a rattle on the door which I fixed with some padding and my M3P needed some padding for a wheel liner due to wind rattle. Of course both of my wife’s 3 series and MYLR has no rattles. :-P
I guess I'm lucky because my TLX at 30,300 miles have zero rattles or any other issues. Car has been solid since day one and just love driving it.
I’ve had 6 MDXs and 3 TLXs since 2009 and have never experienced any rattling or creaking in any, though my old 12 MDX did have a slight moonroof buzz that seemed to resolve itself over time.
Our '23 A Spec Integra probably has the best build quality of any new car we've purchased. Seven months in and not a single rattle, creak or squeak has revealed itself. The paint is almost flawless (show car quality from a few years ago) and everything works exactly as designed. We're very, very pleased with the car.
I'll say this. Although not apples to apples, my brother is up for the weekend with his "old" 2012 BMW X5 with a little over 134k on the clock. I changed out his air filter for him and took it to the gym, taking my normal route. Being 8yrs older and with 110k more miles on it ... his BMW rides nicer, has less wind noise, less tire noise and less rattles than my still relatively, garage-kept RDX. Granted, an X3 would be a more fair comparison, but it's not like we're talking about cars even in the same stratosphere of wear & tear and mileage.
For those constantly harping on the value of Acura ... the "value" is in worse quality. I can't stand the pompous assholes who go on and on about "superior German engineering," since I wrenched on them and saw some of the goddam dumbest shit ever designed simply to make them difficult to work on. But, from what I've seen, the extra money is in the build quality that is in a different league than Acura's.
Yes, quality in the interior is definitely there, but those older X5's are just a nightmare when the sensors, modules start going and they love to leak oil. I'll take the lower maintenance Acura any day with worse interior quality....
To be faire, I have read a few Posts bout built quality of Teggy. Hope Honda fixes this issue. Personally, I am driving Honda and Acura products for the past 20 years and ZERO issue with quality or rattles. A+!
Yes, quality in the interior is definitely there, but those older X5's are just a nightmare when the sensors, modules start going and they love to leak oil. I'll take the lower maintenance Acura any day with worse interior quality....
Thankfully for him he hasn't had any electrical issues. He has had the typical waterpump failure, and of course, while looking at it, they noticed the notorious valve cover leaking. Of course, there's no serviceable gasket and the entire valve cover needs to be replaced ... because German engineering. I believe the job cost him north of $3.5k and they threw in a "free" oil change and loaner for a few days.
That was 2-3yrs ago. He brought it in for a bad misfire a few months ago and they said one of his coils went bad. No biggie ... until they told him he needed a waterpump and his valve cover was leaking. He called me up and I flipped out even though it's not my car. Best part is, to do all the coils & plugs (might as well since one just went bad, the rest aren't far behind), valve cover, water pump and belt, they wanted $9k. He called them back and gave them grief over the water pump and valve cover failing again so soon after being replaced. All of a sudden it was a "miscommunication" between the service writer and the tech and the water pump and valve cover were actually perfectly fine. Gotta love dealers.
Then again, I've seen some obscene prices at Acura dealers for basic services.
Makes me real glad I can still do most everything by myself.
Yes, quality in the interior is definitely there, but those older X5's are just a nightmare when the sensors, modules start going and they love to leak oil. I'll take the lower maintenance Acura any day with worse interior quality....
In general older X5's are some of the worst BMW's out there getting 1 of 5 for reliability from CR for multiple years.
My boss and boss's boss both bought 1G X5's (3.0 and 4.4), both were rattle boxes. Not as awful as MB ML's but still pretty noisy trash cans. My brother really wanted a used X5 4.6i and I somehow talked him out of it instead for a used Cayenne Turbo which worked out well, since then he's bought two more Cayenne's including a GTS which surprisingly all have been fairly reliable except for the notorious fragile plastic cooling pipes in the middle of the "V".
Yep, I actually sent him an article a few years back (I forget who published it) about the worst vehicles in the past decade. The 2012-2013 BMW X5 specifically was on that list. Despite that, I have to say, outside of the water pump going out and valve cover, his X5 has surprisingly been rock solid. It doesn't even burn oil (or at least the sensor never says his oil level is low when it's time to change it ... asinine German BS removing the dipstick), which is shocking.
They are doing well, but did drop 700 units from May.
From my experience the dealers are beginning to approach reasonable stocks so I don't think Acura is supply constrained any more. Wonder if this drop is dealers dialing back their orders, or if dealers are still at full clip and the drop may reflect fewer factory days with the long Memorial day weekend.
Seems like they pivoted 800 units or so from MDX to RDX production, that is a good sign as the RDX seemed to be the most supply constrained on these forums.
They are doing well, but did drop 700 units from May.
From my experience the dealers are beginning to approach reasonable stocks so I don't think Acura is supply constrained any more. Wonder if this drop is dealers dialing back their orders, or if dealers are still at full clip and the drop may reflect fewer factory days with the long Memorial day weekend.
Seems like they pivoted 800 units or so from MDX to RDX production, that is a good sign as the RDX seemed to be the most supply constrained on these forums.
Honestly, don't know the exact number but June is a very strange month. School ends and parents try to leave for vacation and etc. I have worked in may industries and June is always been random and not great. if they can keep 12L-13K per month with the current lineup, can't complain
Acura locks another great month with 13,000 units! Great month, quarter and year so far!!!
Bring the redesigned RDX and ZDX, so sales fly and touches the 200,000 units/year like the good old days
June sales are 89% higher vs last year. Weren't one of you saying there was never a TLX supply shortage? If that was actually true, then what caused the sudden increase of demand?
Acura seem to be back to around where they were pre-pandemic. I'm still surprised at how poorly the RDX is doing. Supply seems to be fine at all the dealers around me. Even with the refresh, sales are still pretty low relative to before the pandemic. Even the NX, which the RDX was always superior in sales to, has left the RDX in the dust, not even visible in its rear view. I suppose the word about the abysmal fuel economy across Acura's line-up, along with no available hybrid options, has finally caught up to Acura. MDX sales seem strong, until you look at RX sales which are double.
The real threat looming is Mazda. The CX90 and the upcoming CX70 are real contenders to what Acura is offering. Premium level interiors, bargain-luxo pricing, good driving dynamics. This doesn't threaten the ethos of what Lexus offers, and it's not nearly enough to threaten the Germans. The main contenders in Acura's space are now Mazda and Genesis, but Genesis just can't seem to get going, probably thanks to their poor brand image and lack of dedicated dealers. I can see Mazda taking a bite out of Acura sales though. I see these damn cars everywhere now.
Acura seem to be back to around where they were pre-pandemic. I'm still surprised at how poorly the RDX is doing. Supply seems to be fine at all the dealers around me. Even with the refresh, sales are still pretty low relative to before the pandemic. Even the NX, which the RDX was always superior in sales to, has left the RDX in the dust, not even visible in its rear view. I suppose the word about the abysmal fuel economy across Acura's line-up, along with no available hybrid options, has finally caught up to Acura. MDX sales seem strong, until you look at RX sales which are double.
The real threat looming is Mazda. The CX90 and the upcoming CX70 are real contenders to what Acura is offering. Premium level interiors, bargain-luxo pricing, good driving dynamics. This doesn't threaten the ethos of what Lexus offers, and it's not nearly enough to threaten the Germans. The main contenders in Acura's space are now Mazda and Genesis, but Genesis just can't seem to get going, probably thanks to their poor brand image and lack of dedicated dealers. I can see Mazda taking a bite out of Acura sales though. I see these damn cars everywhere now.
RX has always been 2X of MDX's sales and this is nothing new. Pre and post pandemic. RX always touched 100K units per years vs. MDX 50K-60K.
In terms of RDX: Acura did not fully recover yet. Most of the resources are allocated to MDX and Teggy now. During my last visit to an Acura dealer, the rep told me they have received 14 MDX, 2 RDX, 2 TLX and 8 Tegyy. Unfortunately, the dealers don't have much say here. For whatever reasons, higher margin, demand and etc. Acura is pushing MDX the most for now! Therefore, the sales numbers are very strong....consistently 5K-6K units per month!
Lastly, let's wait and see about Mazda. We heard that when CX-5 Turbo hit the market. People said RDX' game is over.
June sales are 89% higher vs last year. Weren't one of you saying there was never a TLX supply shortage? If that was actually true, then what caused the sudden increase of demand?
Increase of demand is due to the heavy discounting that Acura is undergoing. They are one of the few brands that are more or less back to pre-Pandemic levels of incentives (Audi is similarly hungry based on offers).
Mercedes and BMW are laughing at customers right now. ADM on Type S models no longer puts them comparable to those 2 Germans as neither side is really budging (at least in my area).
RX has always been 2X of MDX's sales and this is nothing new. Pre and post pandemic. RX always touched 100K units per years vs. MDX 50K-60K.
In terms of RDX: Acura did not fully recover yet. Most of the resources are allocated to MDX and Teggy now. During my last visit to an Acura dealer, the rep told me they have received 14 MDX, 2 RDX, 2 TLX and 8 Tegyy. Unfortunately, the dealers don't have much say here. For whatever reasons, higher margin, demand and etc. Acura is pushing MDX the most for now! Therefore, the sales numbers are very strong....consistently 5K-6K units per month!
Lastly, let's wait and see about Mazda. We heard that when CX-5 Turbo hit the market. People said RDX' game is over.
Agreed! Rumors of Acura’s demise at the hands of Mazda have been exaggerated for some time now. Granted, Acura buyers in the Northeast, SoCal and Chicagoland probably aren’t cross shopping Mazda and Acura in any sizable numbers. (Granted, my wife’s cousin picked up a new CX30 after briefly considering the RDX but, she usually buys Mazda anyway. However, she took a spin in my RDX tech loaner and now laments sticking with Mazda.)
Nobody's saying Mazda is going to make Acura go extinct, but they're pressing up against the market segment that Acura currently occupies, at least with the CX90 and CX70. Of all the premium/luxury brands, Mazda seems to be most comparable to Acura.
I presume "sales" in this document are sales "to dealers" and not "to customers".
I agree that showroom availability is rising but I likewise have not yet heard of any dealers refusing allocations, so at this point I would still bet on supply constraints.
I've heard Honda/Toyota are still among the few brands left with constrained supply on their lots. Honda constrained more than Acura, as I'm sure people are going down market with the rise in finance rates. But I noticed Honda sales dropped too, so I'm thinking more that supply has to be a part of things.
Agree that incentives seem to be at prepandemic levels, and they seem to align with above and be leaner on the Honda end. My guess is that Honda is revamping some of their assembly lines for the 2025 in-house non-Ultium EVs they will be making, and that has capacity down vs 2019 production levels.
Nobody's saying Mazda is going to make Acura go extinct, but they're pressing up against the market segment that Acura currently occupies, at least with the CX90 and CX70. Of all the premium/luxury brands, Mazda seems to be most comparable to Acura.
Hmmm. Mazda likely needs to create a dedicated upscale division for this purpose, just like Hyundai created the Genesis upscale brand specifically to dis-associate its luxury vehicles with the econo Hyundai brand name.
Actually Honda and Acura production is not yet at pre-pandemic levels. It may take to the 4th quarter of this year according to them to approach those levels. Both have prioritized higher trim models and on the Acura side as Tony stated MDX over RDX production. Most Hondas are pre-sold- inventory levels are anemic to say the least for even the largest dealers. They have maintained loyalty/conquest incentives which makes good business sense now that there is increased albeit still lower production.
Agreed! Rumors of Acura’s demise at the hands of Mazda have been exaggerated for some time now. Granted, Acura buyers in the Northeast, SoCal and Chicagoland probably aren’t cross shopping Mazda and Acura in any sizable numbers. (Granted, my wife’s cousin picked up a new CX30 after briefly considering the RDX but, she usually buys Mazda anyway. However, she took a spin in my RDX tech loaner and now laments sticking with Mazda.)
The whole Mazda knocking on Acura's market has been overblown for years going on. Mazda make nice vehicles but IMO they are more closely aligned to Honda vehicles in features/functions.
Only recently have the Acura dealers in my area had any decent TLX and RDX availability in stock or in transit. And even then it pales against pre-pandemic numbers. My dealer shows 9 TLXs in stock/in transit and 31 RDXs. That latter figure is the first time out of the single digits/teens in at least a year.
Mazda makes some of the best cars out there. By no means, I am against Mazda or discrediting Mazda here. I just don’t think Mazda buyers cross-shop Acura.
Acura vehicles require premium gas, repair cost/labour is more expansive and in general the vehicle itself cost more.
Good luck to Mazda and hope we see a luxury division of it one day. If Hyundai did it, why not Mazda. At least Mazda makes original design and has its own identity
Mazda makes some of the best cars out there. By no means, I am against Mazda or discrediting Mazda here. I just don’t think Mazda buyers cross-shop Acura.
Acura vehicles require premium gas, repair cost/labour is more expansive and in general the vehicle itself cost more.
Good luck to Mazda and hope we see a luxury division of it one day. If Hyundai did it, why not Mazda. At least Mazda makes original design and has its own identity
I don't think that Mazda will ever restart the Amati brand anytime soon, particularly given current economic conditions. It's too bad Mazda's marketing is a little weak as they do have an attractive lineup though I wish they still produced the Mazda6 which was easily the most attractive car in the segment. (I know: sedans are dead.) And honestly, I'd buy Mazda before ever considering anything from Hyundai/Kia.
06-02-2023, 11:55 AM
In general older X5's are some of the worst BMW's out there getting 1 of 5 for reliability from CR for multiple years.
The whole Mazda knocking on Acura's market has been overblown for years going on. Mazda make nice vehicles but IMO they are more closely aligned to Honda vehicles in features/functions.