Kense

People care about their payments and adding $100 to a 60 Month loan means hardly anything for people able to afford a 50-60K car. Its not like going form 50K to 90K . When you jump to that price range for a car, most Americans can't afford it, however if you can afford a 50K car you can afford a 60K car. I think the average car loan now is approaching 70 months so yes the majority of people care about Payments vs price of the car.

Kense

Huh? People buy used AMG's, M3's 4's 5's , ISF's, RCF's GSF's etc all the time. They aren't cheap but are in the high 30's to low 50s range and it's quite common for enthusiasts to do so. Where do you think all those M and AMG cars coming off lease go?

If you have a decent job you can get a loan for that with no problem. How do I know? I was approved by my credit union for a nice sized loan for a car. I'd rather invest my own cash money and use the banks to pay for a depreciating toy.

Tesla1856

That's what I'm asking ... where do they go?
The Lessee is not buying-out at end-of-lease. So, doesn't the Lessor (ie, Honda Financial or Audi Financial Services) get them back ?
I'm guessing they have their dealers re-sell them as used CPO (at a good profit) ... but I don't know for sure. Do you ?

fiatlux

Seems like a stretch to say the dealers could resell a used AMG or ///M car. I'm pretty sure they all get sent straight to the crusher. What's the alternative? They're just going to sit on the lots taking up space; cheaper for them to just junk them.

Tesla1856

Right, a steady job OR
just proof of income (like investments) and your unencumbered/good assets.

But even with good credit score, used-car interest rates are higher than new-car. That's what I meant.

lowgrowl

[QUOTE=pyrodan007;16629762]The Giulia weighs 3600 lbs (about 400 less than TLX) and has more torque (306 vs 280). And yet the TLX will be faster than the Giulia (5.5s from C&D), and as fast as the lighter and DCT equipped A4 (5.2). The TLX has more weight and more gears so I doubt it very much your time will be reality.[/QUE]

Let's just see what happens. I suspect a lot of you guys on this thread are German car owners with a axe to grind with Acura. Maybe I'm wrong about my prediction. But if I'm right, talk about embarrassment. And.since your so sure it won't, what is your prediction ?

fiatlux

I guess if we're making outlandish moonshot predictions, I'll predict that the new TLX will be able to pull over 1G on the skidpad because reasons. Wouldn't it be embarrassing if Acura calls this a sports sedan and it can't even pull 1G?

pyrodan007

[QUOTE=lowgrowl;16629851]Specs and educated comparison from similar models. Why 5.2-5.3s? How did you calculate a 0.1 sec variance? Because Accord ... try again.

Legend2TL

IDK, but you made the statement

Not sure what you meant by more gears statement, it makes no sense.

pyrodan007

1) I said 5.9s+, no why below that. Some say it'll be as fast as the A4, so all our statements are guesses. At least I'm trying to justify instead of blowing stuff out of my keyboard.
2) TLX has 10 gears, others have 7 or 8 in transmission. So mysterious ...

Legend2TL

Again your statement makes no sense. You need to know more information than the number of gears

FWIW, F=ma, integrate a (acceleration) over time to get velocity. For ICE, a is not a constant. Not rocket science but high school physics and calculus, hence the reason many high schools let students use EV's for their Classical Mechanics homework

To figure it all out you need to know the torque curve of the engine, gear ratios of the drivetrain, wheel/tire size to calculate the force on the tires and hence acceleration of the vehicle.

pyrodan007

Why is the A4 faster than the Giulia if one weighs more. The RDX already has that calculation. To get it down to below 5.5s secs, you'd need big wheels and a different transmission.

Legend2TL

That's why you need to look at the data and specifications, to understand the translation from engine torque to force at the tires which translates to acceleration and over time that integrates to velocity.

Legend2TL

FWIW one of favorite 70's cars is a Porsche 930 which did 0-60 MPH in 4.9s and 13.7s 104 MPG 1/4 mile, with a 4MT and 261HP/291ftlb turbo flat six and 4MT
A 1978 Honda Accord which did 0-60 in 14s and got 28/34MPG and in 2020 Accord does 0-60MPH in ~5.5s and 14.1 102MPG 1/4 and gets 27/34MPG despite weighting 1.7x more and is so far far far more safer
Pretty F'ing amazing modern vehicle engineering.....

Still today probably far easier to get laid in the 930 whaletail than either Accord

pyrodan007

^^ Hopefully by next week will get a definitive answer from at least one review

cruiserchuck

I had an 84 Accord that had 86 hp and did not seem underpowered except when going up steep hills. It was easier to get laid in the Accord than my previous car - 78 Pinto.

Kense

I believe they go to Auction and are purchased by other dealers/car salesman.

Legend2TL

I can believe that, a friend had a '82 Accord Hatchback of the same 2G model, said he and his g/f made good use of the back seat , only odd thing was g/f insisted on listening to AC/DC while they did it
I helped him install a better Clarion stereo and Pioneer speakers than stock, wonder if that helped?.....

SebringSilver

Actually, someone does know exactly what they are and you have to ask why they’re not revealing those figures. For a company that’s once again (supposedly) focused on performance NOT to reveal performance figures for its flagship “sports sedan” at the 11th hour (more like 11:59) must seem odd to even the casual observer.

Legend2TL

Because Honda/Acura has traditionally not released performance figures, few exceptions HondaJet, NSX and Civic Type-R. Even Honda sport motorcycles don't have performance figures.

https://hondanews.com/en-US

SebringSilver

So if they just keep doing what tradition dictates, why go hybrid with the NSX? Why innovate at all? You can’t just cite tradition as a reason for not doing what it takes to reach your objectives which in this case is to convince the car buying public that you’re serious about performance again (those are Acura’s words, not mine).

Edit: A company that’s serious about performance wouldn’t focus their PR campaign on the stereo system and offer zero information about the actual performance capabilities of the car. I don’t have a problem with Acura being proud of their stereo system. But if that’s the best thing about this car, then don’t make “focus on performance” the backbone of your campaign. Make it all about the sound system.

cruiserchuck

By contrast, Lexus lists 0-60 specs for all its vehicles, including the UX, 8.9 sec. The TLX should be a little faster, even if it is a little heavy. 🐖

Legend2TL

Meh, two entirely different things being innovative and not publishing some performance data. As most folks on these forums know Honda most often does things their way. They're generally not conformist, but on occasion are (i.e. 2G Ody).

Publishing or not publishing a few acceleration data has zero implication on whether a car has performance aspirations.
That task has already been done by the engineers and designers who will face the final test be critiqued by the reviewers and ultimately if the public buys more than the prior model.

Being serious about performance is clearly documented well in the 2G NSX press kit. In a few weeks the 2G TLX will be released with I guessing all sorts of technical data like the NSX illustrates.

https://acuranews.com/en-US/releases...nsx-press-kit#

Yeah, see on the IS Lexus lists 0-60, turning circle, aero drag coeff., and top speed.
I must say, four unique performance parameters.
Does anyone tell their neighbors or friends they bought a IS300 with a Cd of 0.28?

Fun fact, typical F1 car looks pretty sleek with it's sleek dart like shape actually have a Cd of 0.7-1.0 not very efficient aero drag but extremely efficient at creating downforce.
Biggest contributor is the open tires whose top surface is going twice the velocity of car, creates the majority of drag.

dmski

Nice and very clean examples get resold by the original dealer on a used car lot. Crappy abused examples get dumped on a dealer auction.

Legend2TL

+1,

fiatlux

Hard to sell ones go to dealer auction too. My friend has a dealer license as he sells cars as a side business. Lots of manuals wind up there because it's just so hard. He picked up a sweet M240i for himself for cheap. Apparently they were so hard to sell used because enthusiasts who prefer manuals just end up buying an M2.

Tesla1856

I would think so. I clean and no-accident CarFax, could be CPO. It's already single-owner due to the 2-3 year lease.
Mark it up to retail and try to sell it.

But if it doesn't sell, you would think they would just knock thousands off the price, instead of giving-up and auctioning it off.

bilirubin

FWIW, the new TLX 2.0T engine code is K20C6, which differs from the RDX (K20C4). We'll soon find out what's been upgraded.

fiatlux

There’s hope yet that maybe Acura is underrating the power numbers. Might as well go big and dream about it having the TD04 that the K20C1 gets. The K20C4 runs out of steam at the top end, something that doesn’t happen to the C1 thanks to the larger turbo.

Legend2TL

Interesting, curious what the changes are...

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I highly doubt it will have the CTR turbo man. It's a heavy near luxury sports sedan. I think the focus is for minimal turbo lag, good low to mid range torque, and that's about it. But it's definitely interesting. Both the Accord 2.0T and RDX, despite having different power ratings, have the K20C4. So I wonder what changes there are for Honda to use a different engine code.

AcuraGuy2016

Motor trend is already showing 0-60 of 6.5s on their website. That is in line with the 3G RDX and is A LOT SLOWER than the 1G TLX V6. I think that did 60 in 5.7-5.8s. It is a little faster than the 4 cyl 1G but MUCH SLOWER than the 1G V6.

I really hope they dont cheap out with road noise.

bilirubin

Great catch. To be fair, 6.5s is MT's estimate, they haven't actually tested it. Here's the actual quote...
With that said I don't entirely disagree with their estimate (I pegged 6.2s for the 2.0T SH-AWD, and 4.6s for the Type S).

lowgrowl

Yeah I remember seeing that time before. I do believe it was a prediction however. Based on the segment it will be in and it's cost, I really find it hard to believe it won't be faster. Unless Acura is thinking we'll give all the speed to the Type S and leave the base mediocre. I sincerely hope that's not the case.

lowgrowl

I believe even if both TLX's end up putting down great numbers and getting great reviews, people will still come up with ridiculous reasons to say it sucks. I just can't figure out the way people think. This thread has been an exercise in negativity. Not one person has said a positive thing. Unbelievable !!!. .

Legend2TL

drivability is probably the primary objective for the turbo type/size selection

sonyfever

Maybe fixes for limp mode issue? j/k

Jiten Patel

I've been fairly positive about this car since the beginning. However, I have to admit, the trim configurations are a little disappointment to me. Other than that, it looks to be a great car. Can't wait to drive it to really get an idea.

pyrodan007

Factor in money and features, you'll quickly see why. If this thing also has slower acceleration and they bumped price by 7k, you can see why people are feeling neutral about it. Acura is releasing reviews way too late, I have a feeling it's to avoid indifference.

leomio85

The problem is, the negativity is founded ... you simply expect the TLX to somehow defy the laws of physics. If it puts down great numbers by the tune of underrated power, I'd gladly praise the 2G TLX. As for why it "sucks" or doesn't sell, I think you're overestimating the popularity of Acura, and the Type S nameplate. Take for instance their launch video:

Over a year and 203k views.

Now, take a look at the Proto Z and how many views it got in just two days.

591k views

This is more views than the TLX reveal video got 3 months ago as well. This from a company that some on here think is dead and nobody in their right mind would purchase. Members on here seem to think Acura is a renowned brand with performance pedigree in its veins. Most people in the real world look at Acura as a brand for geriatrics who upgraded from Honda and do 10MPH under the speed limit.

My 5yr plan isn't as bad as I had imagined, but plans for a new car have gotten pushed back a couple years. Heck, we'll see what magic the ///M division could do on the pig nose of the new G80 M3 on Sept 23. Maybe pick up a lightly used one in 4-5yrs if I can bare to look at it (and issues don't start cropping up with the S58 platform).