neil0311

It's weird how some get stonewalled and others get replacement transmissions. Is it the dealer, the specific rep at ACR, some specific diagnostics from the vehicle?

If it's any help, here's what I did, which is probably similar to what most have done.

I brought mine in to get 15-040 and the relearn performed. I also contacted ACR and followed up with an email reiterating what I said on the phone. I was clear that I was not satisfied, felt the transmission was not operating correctly, and that I would open a lemon law proceeding if the issues weren't fixed.

I was contacted back by ACR and told to take the vehicle to the dealer and do a test ride and let the dealer see the issues (which I had already done and was told the tranny was "normal"). I brought the car in and showed the tech the tranny, vibrations, rear deck rattle, and a couple of other minor issues. They kept the car and gave me a loaner that was identical to mine except for exterior color.

After driving the loaner which is a 2015 AWD without the slightest roughness in the 2nd to 3rd gear (or any other) shifts, I called and emailed ACR and told them that I wanted my vehicle to drive and operate the same as the loaner. I told them I didn't care if it was a software or hardware fix, but anything less would be unacceptable, and it was obvious that the vehicle does operate properly with a properly working transmission.

After another relearn and test drive with the tech at the dealer, the bumps and rough shifts persisted and I said it was not acceptable. The tech spoke to Acura, sent diagnostics that showed faults, and setup the district rep for a test drive. After the district guy drove the car, the service advisor called me and said he approved a replacement.

So...did I do anything differently? Probably not. What I was serious about (and maybe they could tell I had the intent) was going after them via the lemon law and any other means as needed. I was not going to accept the vehicle back until fixed.

rgpolson

I was at the dealer to pick up my plates for the 2016 that I traded my 2015 w/horrible for. One of the sales guys noticed the Advanti wheels and asked where I had bought them. I told him and he said, "well, make sure you keep the originals or when you trade it in you won't be able to trade as a certified pre-owned."

I wanted to tell him that it would not be a problem as, after buying 11 new Honda/Acura products I have no intention of ever buying a Honda/Acura product again. But, I was in a hurry so just smirked and walked out.

rgpolson

Same experience that I had. Dealer had my 2015 for a week in December. When I got it back the shifting was worse. The next week I traded it for a 2016. I figure I lost about $5k on the trade, but couldn't take hating the car every time I climbed in it. And I couldn't find anything else I really like for under 50k.

Rocketsfan

Your comments above pretty much echo my experience. I wasn't that bothered by the thumpity-thump shifting until it became almost unbearable. What really put it over the top was when I got a 2016 loaner from them and felt how it shifted in comparison. I wasn't able to get anything fixed on mine although the shifting has gone from bad to better to bad to better through these fixes. It's bearable now, but still thumps me every-so-often. Many of us here have received the Precision Crafted BS about the "operating within parameters" line they've been trained to parrot. "It sounds official, maybe they'll believe it". lol.

Good luck. Hopefully you'll get a new transmission. It's been hit or miss on here for most of us. I've already come to the conclusion that the best thing for me to do is just to spread the word about Acura's "thrill" and "precision crafting" and support I've received for a flawed transmission.

Vlke

I'd gladly over 5k to swap for a 2016.. but I'm in Canada and last sales rep quoted me its going to cost around $15-18k...

tmitch2315

I took a chance this time and bought a "First year Model". I have always waited for the bugs to be worked out in the past and bought the next year. My Bad. Love the car overall but the first year transmission not so much. Acura with the excellent cars I have had in the past lulled me to sleep. My Bad. When I bought it part of the deal was a 7 yr warranty(was worried about all the new electronics NOT the transmission) so if I can stand the car at least I'm covered until everyone forgets about all this and it may be worth something on a trade.

kuzdu

Hey guys so far my new tranny is great smooth no issues. I recently installed the stock size lightweight crank pulley. So I have a new tranny, pulley and KandN drop in. This car is a different beast its sooooooo much quicker and more responsive in a big way. On the highway a little tap of the gas and your gone no more pressing halfway and waiting. It great now, reminds me of my 12 TL.

Honestly I love driving this car.

kuzdu

Hey guys so far my new tranny is great smooth no issues. I recently installed the stock size lightweight crank pulley. So I have a new tranny, pulley and KandN drop in. This car is a different beast its sooooooo much quicker and more responsive in a big way. On the highway a little tap of the gas and your gone no more pressing halfway and waiting. It great now, reminds me of my 12 TL.

Honestly I love driving this car now

/QUOTE]

quantum7

interesting about the response time. Did you notice the same delay in the new transmission as the old before you changed to the lighter crank pulley, or is the better response due entirely to the lighter pulley?
Aside from my concern about the jerky shifting of the 9 speed (which apparently has been solved with the 2016), was the lag time when passing (I know all about the dog clutches).
Would be very interested on the details of your modifications....what parts, cost, time, and any downside with load with the lighter crank pulley.
Great news....enjoy the ride!

kuzdu

When I got my new tranny the shifts of course we're super smooth and the delay time was much better I wouldn't say gone but there was a difference from the old one. After I put the crank pulley on it changed the car nihht and day. I don't have any delays anymore on the highway it feels like my old TL 2012 one that was super smooth. Just a little touch of the gas now and he going and little more it will downshifts 2 gears and keep pulling hard. I had this pulley on my awd TL as well and it made a difference but it made a huge difference in this car with the better tranny. It's much more fun and exciting to drive now honestly. I was the first one to test fit the pulley on our cars te 5th gen and it's a direct fit. When passing people a merging it's a breeze now

Vlke

I just got off the phone with my ACR just now. He advised me that the field rep confirms my car is within normal specifications and there's nothing else they will be able to do. Even though it's obvious now transmission swap is a possible fix, they will not do it to my car. The ACR pretty much said the only thing left to do is to contact my dealership to trade in the car. I brought the car in to a dealership before to inquire about a trade in for the 2016 TLX and I was told it's going to cost me around $15-18k for the trade in. I asked why did the car depreciate so much and the response I got was because it's a 2015 TLX and people know there's transmission problems with the car. So Honda Canada is telling me the car is within normal specification and on the other hand their sales reps are telling me the transmission problem in 2015 is the cause of the low trade in. I was also told at this point there's no other department I can contact to help me with this issue. I'm so tempted to write an email to the CEO of Honda Canada and then contact my local news about this. It's unfortunate I can't find the email address for the CEO. Only emails I can find are the supervisor and coordinator of public relations. Maybe it's worth it to send them an email too.

hwolfie

The link below is corporate registration in FL in the US for American Honda Motor Co, Inc. The top guy is:


YAMADA, TAKUJI
1919 TORRANCE BLVD
TORRANCE, CA 90501-2746


There is a class action against Honda dealing with transmission issues. I am contacting those attorneys and will update Acurazine once I get in touch with them.


Note: Acurazine blocked the link.

hwolfie

In the US there is a Dispute Resolution outfit that you can try. I have the US address and phone # but I am not sure what it is in Canada.


For model years 2013 and newer, in the US is:


National Center for Dispute Settlement
PO Box 1108
Mt Clemens, MI 48046


Their phone # is: 1-877-545-0055


I would try calling them up.

Vlke

Thanks for the quick response hwolfie. Unfortunately I'm in Canada and I'm having trouble finding the contacts for upper management.

neil0311

Do you have a lemon law in the province in which you live? Can you determine the cost to replace the transmission and file a lawsuit or go to arbitration?

As I posted previously, my car's transmission is in the process of being replaced, so I don't know if there is a specific trigger for replacement or it just depends on who you deal with at ACR and the district rep. I was expecting them to push back and they did not.

My car was an early build from 9/14, so not sure if VIN makes a difference.

Vlke

Mine was built in 10/14. There's no lemon law here but I can go to arbitration. It'll be my last resort as it'll be another tedious thing I'll have to deal with. In the meantime I'm going on full blast on Acura social media sites and will be emailing my local news.

nebula

hwolfie, to which law firm are you referring to? I know you said you will update us (much appreciated by the way), is this class action for both the 4 and 6 cylinders? I have the 4 and my service department said the reverse to drive clunk tha myself and others are experiencing is normal (yeah right!). Please keep us in the loop if you can, thanks in advance.

hwolfie

Acurazine blocks URLs.


Google "Girard Gibbs LLP" and once on the site go to their Search, and search on the word "Acura". It is the second case listed with the title "Acura TLX Transmission Class Action Lawsuit"


I have left a message but haven't spoken with them yet.

mani

FINALLY !!!
Acura decided to replace my transmission and I got the car back this friday. Day and Night difference. No hard shifts, smooth take offs and the lag is pretty low. The service manager borrowed my car overnight as he had to drive the car for 30 miles (took permission of course) and when he handed to me, specfically said that the first 60 miles are relearning process of the transmission where its adapting to the driver response (im guessing similar to ECUs) So I was advised not to drive like a grandma and keep it in NORMAL mode while the relearning process is going on. I did so, car picks up much better still no harsh and great power response on the accelerator tap.... After 75 miles switched over to Sports mode as I always leave it on it and wow, after exactly one year of ownership was I able to experience something which I expected on day 1.
To be honest I haven't tried Sport plus mode yet as the tranny is still new. I would give it atleast 250 miles (for my own mind comfort that is)

For all the rest of you still having trouble with there 2015's, I have only one advice:
Please do not trade them in (unless for different make) for a 2016 TLX and waste your hard earned money... Get 3 seperate service records of dropping the car at the dealer for the same exact issue and then contact ACR through facebook and other social media platforms.... write on their wall or comment on their ads/ banners the issue you have been dealing with and they will surely get back to you (might take a month though like in my case) but its totally worth it. Anyone need advice or help me as the PM's come directly to my email and I can respond quicker... I get busy at work a lot so come less on the forums as I used to but I do check a couple of times a month.
Good Luck fellas !

hwolfie

What is ACR?

Vlke

Acura Client Relation

mojo_79

Congratulations on the new tranny. My experience is similar to yours; very smooth shifts all of the time. The downshift lag is still present in all units, MDX included. Now that I have a smooth shifting transmission, the downshift lag is the only thing that keeps this from being a "good" tranny. Below is an excerpt from a technical article about this transmission:


"Downshifts are where the 9HP truly feels different. Because of the design, if you’re in 8th gear and want to pass, the transmission will often need to drop 4 or 5 gears to get to a suitable ratio. (Remember that 4th gear is the first ratio going back down the scale that is lower than 1:1.) To do this the transmission has to accomplish the harder task of engaging two dog clutches. To do this the transmission doesn’t use cone synchros like a manual (too bulky) it uses software. Engaging dog clutches requires a longer and yet more severe reduction in torque than the disengagement because the transmission has to align the clutch and then engage it. In most automatics when you floor the car you get an instant feeling of acceleration that improves as the transmission downshifts. Although there would be moments of power reduction (depending on the programming) during this time, the engine is always providing some force forward. The 9HP’s software on the other hand responds by cutting power initially, then diving as far down the gear-ladder as it can, engaging the dog clutches and then reinstating your throttle command. The result is a somewhat odd delay between the pedal on the floor and the car taking off like a bat out of hell. According to Volvo’s powertrain guys, this shift behavior is one of the main reasons they chose the Aisin 8-speed (shared with the Lexus RX F-Sport) over the ZF 9-speed used by Land Rover and Chrysler."

mani

Awesome read !
I'm assuming thats why they have the Sport plus mode then ? Keep the car in the high 7 or 8th gear ?

EE4Life

TSB 16-012 was released today. See the TSB threads for details.

https://acurazine.com/forums/fifth-g...letins-914607/

https://acurazine.com/forums/fifth-g...letins-936068/

KeithL

That TSB fits most of my complaints, and applies to my 9/15 build. I need to get this done and see what happens.

Mike_TX

All about downshifts - nothing about the 2-3 shift.

.
.

Biggie_B

Thanks EE4Life. Anything come out for the 4 cylinder?

BluePlanet

TL;DR: I think you can get a new transmission installed, if you're willing to put in the work.

I finally got Acura to replace my 2015 transmission with the 2016 version, and yes, it's a massive improvement (I will say that it did take a good 200+ miles before the shifts with the new tranny became near perfect, so if you get yours replaced, don't be surprised if there are still some oddities happening while the learning process takes place).

I appreciate the frustration by many who feel that those who are getting replacements are, in some respects, getting lucky to have the right service advisor, or Acura rep., or whoever. There's some truth to that, and it stinks. I dealt with it for a long time.

Here is my advice based on *my* experience, and of course your mileage may vary (I have to be vague here considering my part of the agreement which was reached, and which I will adhere to):

- In some cases, you don't actually have to do the things listed below, you just have to *say* that you'll do them.

- It shouldn't be this way, but for most of us it is going to take work to get a new transmission (I get it that some haven't had to put too much effort into their pursuit -- good for them). One call to ACR isn't going to do it. It also helps to have a very tenacious mindset when it comes to getting companies to make things right when their product is bad.

- It helps greatly to have your ducks in a row, have solid good documentation (document your conversations, with names and dates), get the dealership to document the issue on a dealer service form write-up, and come across as professional and knowledgeable about the issue. Don't get too emotional, but be very firm and explain exactly what you will do if the problem isn't solved. Tell Acura you won't stop your efforts until your car functions properly. You need to be a smart bulldog that bites down and doesn't let go.

- Utilize the power of social media, including the threat or actual implementation of a broader social media campaign. Embarrass them, but stay classy.

- Consider what you've seen in the press with regard to people who are dissatisfied with a company and what the successful ones have done to reach resolution (think internet options). Remember, you have the power to make life difficult for and bring negative PR to the company. If they feel you're a legitimate threat (back to the third bullet), they will listen. (This was all confirmed by a friend of mine who is the general counsel of a large corporation, and who regularly deals with people who did what I did with Acura. If they think you're going to be a constant thorn in their side and not just some annoying gnat who will go away after a few tries, they are much more likely to work with you).

- Consider options with Acura / Honda public relations people. You can get a lot of info, names, email addresses, etc. on the internet. Don't just email them in hopes they'll advocate for your cause, explain to them all the bad PR that is about to come their way because you see no other options at this point. Then tell them all that can be avoided with a simple repair of a material problem that is clearly documented throughout the automotive press, message boards, etc. etc.

- In that regard, spend a few hours going through this forum and running internet searches for TLX transmission problems cited by respected sources and authorities, and document key quotes and sources. Think how you might use that info. to publicly embarrass Acura.

- Certainly not necessary, but I did this: remind Acura of all the work you've had to go to in order to get them to fix the problem, and insist on additional "compensation" (not monetary) for your trouble (yup, I got that, but that's all I can say).

- I didn't need to resort to legal action, but there were some clear overtures in that direction.

I spent no more than $15 in my efforts, and maybe 5-7 hours of time in total.

On arbitration: you definitely have this option (see your owners manual). However, I looked into this and there are stats available which show how auto arbitration claims are resolved. The vast majority, around 85-90%, are decided in favor of the manufacturer. This should surprise no one, since the *auto companies* are the ones who pay for the arbitration service (it's free to you, but that's bad for you. To remove bias, each party should pay half of the arbitration fees). It's a clear and obvious conflict of interest, but it's actually part of a law passed by Congress, so if anything, blame the system. You have to prepare a detailed written case, and also can make an oral presentation, and most people simply don't have or take the time to do a professional job with this. Plus, in a situation like this, it is doubly hard because there is no clear and present danger associated with rough shifts, and the manufacturer can insist that "there is no problem" and the car is functioning "to spec." That said, I was going to pursue this option if other avenues didn't work.

Good luck guys, and thanks to all those who contributed on this (now very long) discussion.

ATXTLX

BluePlanet: Great post. I agree. I was very tenacious. It worked. I did get an attorney involved, and that went nowhere.. but it made Acura realize I was serious. A week after I dropped the case, bingo. Acura approved a replacement. Don't give up!

Rocket_man

Mine was built one month before yours. If/when you get this done please report back

I don't have the hard shifts but the lag is starting to get to me. I can't modulate the gas pedal in a turn like I want to. Like all my other cars allowed me to do.... I get a big fat nothing when I get on the gas until I'm out of the turn. Sport mode is better but I tend to use Normal mode.

KeithL

I don't see this TSB fixing the lags, that is annoying as well. I have accepted this tranny will NEVER be what I want it to be, but maybe the TSB will get rid of some of my worst complaints. I also find it hard to believe the 16 TLX is that much better, I thinks it is still too early to tell as even my late build 15 shifts well most of the times, so early 16 observations may not mean much yet.

mojo_79

I've driven my 2015 TLX with the original transmission, with the new replacement transmission, I've driven a 2016 TLX V6 loaner, and 2 different 2016 MDX loaners. And I am very surprised at the performance variation between what are supposed to be identical transmissions. The only thing they have in common is the downshift lag.

The 1st 2016 MDX loaner felt extremely responsive, much sportier than my TLX. Extremely smooth shifts. It had a little under 2000 miles on it. I loved how it drove.

The current MDX loaner drives nothing like the 1st one (they are both SH-AWD). The shifts are rough, a little jerky in low gears, and it just seems confused about what gear to be in. This MDX has about 500 miles on it.

My TLX with replacement transmission falls somewhere between the 2 MDX's...

Could this be due to the supposed "learning" capability of this transmission? It's so bizarre to me. Identical MDX's should drive the same when they are in the same IDS mode. IMO, this transmission will be phased out by every manufacturer and will go down as an epic failure.

Mike_TX

I think disabling the learn function would be a good idea. It ain't working.

.
.

cruiserchuck

I have seen reports that Honda is going to introduce a 10 speed transmission in the redesigned Odyssey later this year. I wonder if they are planning to also use that transmission for the 2017 TLX.

Rocketsfan

There always used to be a lag when making a turn in my car. I think I mentioned on here that I was scared to make a turn and accelerate with oncoming traffic because I wasn't sure it would accelerate "normally". I made mention of it several times, but of course, my transmission is "normal". What's odd now is that I don't notice the turning lag as much, though I think it's still there, but I get weak acceleration in the morning when I leave my subdivision on one particular right-turn. I don't know if it's because the tranny/engine is cold or what, but every morning, the pedal doesn't work normally. It's almost got a spongy effect to the point it doesn't accelerate when I push down like I usually do. It accelerates, but it almost feels as if the pedal is resisting going down or something.

The car drives better than when it was at its worst, but the constant thumping is still there, just not as frequent. The transmission is a pile o' crap despite what Acura says.

And it's the weekend... now I can finally fill out the online survey they sent. This will be the highlight of my week - putting a blowtorch to their butts.

kuzdu

Has anyone has this installed yet?

quantum7

Likewise hoping for a change....assuming that it is actually ready and that they are not expecting the TLX owners to be beta testers. Hope that the new transmission can be placed in an SH-AWD and that it is ready for 2017 TLX.

Technology Preview: We Drive Honda's 10-Speed Automatic Transmission

Honda Shows World's 1st Planetary Gear-based 10-speed AT for FF Vehicles (2) - Nikkei Technology Online

Have not found any information since Nov.

f1nzup

i got my 15 TLX in May of last year, and I could tell from the get go that the tranny was mediocre at best, but I've been with Acura too long, and I'm too cheap to go with another car so I have lived with it. Long story short, I got a 16 TLX loaner Saturday and it is NIGHT AND DAY from my 15 TLX. So much so that I am now looking into whatever it takes to get this cured.

I have been dealing with the same dealer for years that I trust, so the first step is getting the TSB done. He said if that doesn't fix the problem, we will look at Plan B at that point. Bottom line is that I now have to have the performance that I am getting with the 16 TLX loaner.

I come from a 2012 TL that was a blast to drive, but I haven't had that experience with my 15 TLX. The excitement of driving is BACK with the 16 TLX.

kuzdu

I have a question, for those of us with new tranny's have you ever driven a 2016 model and compared the differences? Both shift smooth but how about shift points and acceleration and highway performance? Does the 2016 have a different program than we do? After my tranny was changed and I put on the lw crank pulley the car flys now. I think for some of us that have new tranny's and smooth shifting ones a new program will need to come out to change the behavior. The 9 speed kind of Act like the 6 speed in my 3.7. Probably the same programming was used but modified.

neil0311

Picked up my V6 SH-AWD today after nearly 3 weeks at the dealer getting the transmission replaced and other items addressed. It's an early 9/14 build that I bought in Nov 2015, with 300 miles on it. I had the transmissions issues.

After driving it tonight, it feels like a completely different vehicle. The throttle response is instant and precise. The shifts are smooth and precise. I noticed that the tech noted he performed TSB 16-012, even though my VIN is not in the range, which tells me there is 100% a difference in hardware prior to a certain point. Downshifts are also very smooth and precise.

If anyone wants to know, the part number noted for the new transmission and torque converter is "06200-5L9-A59RM warranty A/T kit"

For anyone struggling trying to get theirs replaced, one thing I noticed is that the tech noted that after he rode with me, he contacted Acura's tech line and they did some step by step troubleshooting and did the relearn and also found some trouble codes. The tech line recommended replacement, and the district rep drove the vehicle and approved the replacement. Be sure to push the tech to contact the tech line and go through their debug process. It may take longer, but I think it's key to an approval and replacement.

HTH