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A friend of mine is a sales manager at one of the local Acura dealers here in town. I ran into him just the other day, while picking up some parts at the dealership. I pulled him aside and asked if the Type S is coming. He said "yeah, it's coming..." and then I got all excited. But he didn't finish. He went on to say "I think it'll come for 2019, for the last two years of production, like they did with the 3G TL".
To me, that means that no one really has any insight whatsoever regarding a Type S. The 3G TL got a Type S in the last two years of production, because that's just how the MMC worked out. Acura is releasing the MMC one year earlier for the TLX, so there's no reason it shouldn't come now. It seems weird to release a new engine/drivetrain after an MMC.
I doubt the Type S would show up for 2020... that would be the last production year of the TLX. Seems a little late. Even 2022 doesn't seem to make much sense either, unless Acura was planning to have a MMC for the 2G TLX into only its second year of production.
Unfortunately, I think we just have to sit this out and see what happens. I'm still optimistic though.
I think @NexX mentioned something similar last year. Aspec model in 2017 and Type S in 2018 (calendar years).
^Agreed. All the dealers are telling different stories. FWIW, I can see a 2019 Type S happening. I can also see a Sport Hybrid, or both. Q50 has a sport hybrid and it was the fastest one (365hp) before the Red Sport TT model. Even though the RLX Sport Hybrid can't sell, it's still a successful design that is carrying over to the MDX. I still bet we see one or the other or both by 2019 for the TLX.
Acura is releasing the MMC one year earlier for the TLX, so there's no reason it shouldn't come now. It seems weird to release a new engine/drivetrain after an MMC.
I doubt the Type S would show up for 2020... that would be the last production year of the TLX. Seems a little late. Even 2022 doesn't seem to make much sense either, unless Acura was planning to have a MMC for the 2G TLX into only its second year of production.
Unfortunately, I think we just have to sit this out and see what happens. I'm still optimistic though.
I'm a bit confused. Will the TLX have a 6 year model run? I was thinking 5 years. '15, '16, '17, followed by MMC '18, '19 and then totally new model in '20.
TL
1st Gen: '96, '97, '98 (3 yr cycle)
2nd Gen: '99, '00, '01, MMC '02 (introduced early), '03 (5 yr cycle)
3rd Gen: '04, '05, '06, MMC '07, '08 (5 yr cycle)
4th Gen: '09, '10, '11, MMC '12 (introduced early) '13, '14 which only ran 1/2 year (5 1/2 yr cycle)
Yeah, you're right. I was thinking 2020 would be the 5th year. Apparently I can't do simple math.
though honda/Acura aren't held to those five year cycles. They likely seem to work best for them though. Cars such as the RL didn't change for like 9 years though.
I'm a bit confused. Will the TLX have a 6 year model run? I was thinking 5 years. '15, '16, '17, followed by MMC '18, '19 and then totally new model in '20.
TL
1st Gen: '96, '97, '98 (3 yr cycle)
2nd Gen: '99, '00, '01, MMC '02 (introduced early), '03 (5 yr cycle)
3rd Gen: '04, '05, '06, MMC '07, '08 (5 yr cycle)
4th Gen: '09, '10, '11, MMC '12 (introduced early) '13, '14 which only ran 1/2 year (5 1/2 yr cycle)
Looking at the historical trend and how it is increasing. It would make sense that there was a 6 year cycle for the TLX. I get the impression that Honda R&D is tapped out with new Honda models and Acura is on the back burner right now. However, models like the MDX, RDX, and RLX seem to be on current track for the 6 year cycle.
I don't think the TLX will make it to 6 years. Sales will be dead by year 5, regardless of MMC or not.
Maybe that would make Acura re-evaluate what they're doing. The TLX is the only thing in Acura sedans that remotely works. Although, the ILX makes a ton of "Worst of" lists.
Was gonna wait for the '18 TLX, but got that new car itch this past weekend and pulled the trigger on a 2017 IS350 F Sport, basically the new version of my precious car. Love the performance, smoothness and reliability of the 2GR-FSE motor of the IS350, the 2017 refreshed model come with updated front and rear bumpers, exhaust tips and widescreen navigation screen.
Was gonna wait for the '18 TLX, but got that new car itch this past weekend and pulled the trigger on a 2017 IS350 F Sport, basically the new version of my precious car. Love the performance, smoothness and reliability of the 2GR-FSE motor of the IS350, the 2017 refreshed model come with updated front and rear bumpers, exhaust tips and widescreen navigation screen.
Nice choice on the 350. I've been looking at Lexus as well (RCF) as there is nothing in the current Acura line up which would make me want to give up my '08 TL-S. Congratulation on the new ride.
Looking at the historical trend and how it is increasing. It would make sense that there was a 6 year cycle for the TLX. I get the impression that Honda R&D is tapped out with new Honda models and Acura is on the back burner right now. However, models like the MDX, RDX, and RLX seem to be on current track for the 6 year cycle.
I think Acura pushed some things back. I think the ILX and RDX had original 5 year timelines but the Precision Cockpit tech's development cycle is, IMO, worth pushing them back a bit to get it in from the beginning. If both the MY2019 ILX and RDX are FMCs then them having the Precision Cockpit tech and design will be worth the 6-12 month wait.
Also - the elephant in the room is the ZF 9AT. The whispers of rumors are that Acura is contractually obligated to have that transmission around through 2017. I'd much much much rather they wait to do all their major work until they don't have to use that transmission anymore. If the TLX keeps it that will be a shame but they had no choice but to update the model for this year.
Especially with the 2.0T...the Chinese Avancier has a 2.0T...but it also has the 9AT.
I'd much rather they wait to FMC the RDX and ILX until they don't have to use the 9AT.
Also - the 9AT contractural issues give some credence to the MY2019 TLX Type-S rumors. I will bet a lot of money that Acura doesn't want to put the 9AT in the Type-S. But if they are contractually obligated to use it through calendar year 2017 then waiting until Calendar year 2018/MY2019 to release it...with the new 10AT (which can also be configured as an 8AT BTW...)...then that makes a TON of sense.
Also - the 9AT contractural issues give some credence to the MY2019 TLX Type-S rumors. I will bet a lot of money that Acura doesn't want to put the 9AT in the Type-S. But if they are contractually obligated to use it through calendar year 2017 then waiting until Calendar year 2018/MY2019 to release it...with the new 10AT (which can also be configured as an 8AT BTW...)...then that makes a TON of sense.
See I do beleive that there is absolutely something contractual going on between Honda and ZF. Why else would they maintain the ZF9 when it hurt their image so much. However I beleive there are loop holes in the contract (a.k.a it is for number of units, not per model basis) hence the use of 8DCT in TLX and 6 speed in pilot/ridgeline.
So to better explain what I am trying to say, I beleive Honda is trying to either use up a certain number of ZF boxes or for a certain time line. With that new 10 speed out, I don't see why it can't go to the TLX. Or why Honda can make a DCT for Hybrids capable of habdling a crap ton of power but not one for gasoline engines.
Lastly, the RDX is on a 6 year cycle and mules have already been spotted numerous times. There was never any implication of needing to end that model cycle fast because it is selling more than double the 1G sales iirc. The 2019 RDX is the expected FMC and it is in line. The only issue I can forsee (if you can call it that because Honda thought it would be a good idea to unveil a 10 speed on a minivan) is that the RDX is supposed to get things after the MDX does, but the MDX FMC is not due till 2020. The 2013 RDX came before the 2014 MDX did and the MDX got the jewel eyes first. So if anything, the RDX is stuck till 2020.
Prove that there is something wrong with the 2016 and 2017.
Get over it.
Prove that the TLX is a slam dunk for Acura, that transmission has only bad news and gas economy associated to it. Why is it that none of the performance luxury brands are using it then...Why is there over 40 pages of problems then. Get over yourself, relax
Last edited by pyrodan007; 03-21-2017 at 05:56 PM.
Prove that the TLX is a slam dunk for Acura, that transmission has only bad news and gas economy associated to it. Why is it that none of the performance luxury brands are using it then...Why is there over 40 pages of problems then. Get over yourself, relax
What does this ranting have to do with the ZF9 2016 and 2017. Forget 2015.
*Answer; big fat ZERO*. The current ZF9 is a great transmission and just fine.
Although he did not hear any of the whirs and clicks that pre-empted the warranty claim (before any actual mechanical trouble was experienced), KOTH decreed the transmission far from perfect.
“Our Pilot is smooth, cushy, and powerful, but the tranny continues to suffer at low speeds,” he proclaimed. “Indecisive gear hunting along with getting caught in the wrong gear is its biggest problem. I subsequently confirmed these findings in shorter jaunts around town. Most of time, the Pilot’s transmission is in the proper gear and shifts almost imperceptibly as long as you keep throttle applications light and smooth. But sudden inputs seem to confuse it; for instance, imagine you’re approaching a red light, and have just released the throttle and are about to move your foot to the brake when the light goes green. Go immediately back to the throttle, and you’ll likely find yourself jerked into a different gear, which is annoying.
I never mentioned my car or year, the ZF9 is not the best for Acura. A new transmission will help tremendously for 'that thrill' mantra.
Last edited by pyrodan007; 03-21-2017 at 06:14 PM.
What does this ranting have to do with the ZF9 2016 and 2017. Forget 2015.
*Answer; big fat ZERO*. The current ZF9 is a great transmission and just fine.
It does seem that the "problems" are diminished in the 16/17 models but from my own impression the transmission does a disservice to the 290 rated HP of the the TLX. Sure it gets you a couple extra MPG but it comes at a cost. I would rather it have a 5 speed auto that matches better to the motor with decisive and instant response to the throttle and always hitting the right gear. I know not all would agree but a better trans in the car would go a long way for some of us. Nothing wrong with having a transmission that makes the car go like it has almost 300 hp. I would rather see the right gears and shifting rather than more gears.
Anyway my wish list would be as follows:
New Transmission
Bring the gear shift lever back and axe the buttons
Improve the infotainment system (add carplay/android auto already in low level hondas and probably comming with the 18 model update)
Some more "premium" look to the interior and get rid of the wood inlays or at least have another option
and
Type S model which would probably address the first two above or more and hopefully have the kind of differences that made the 3rd generation type S such an upgrade over the base tl.
I think its a few years off for much of this stuff.
Was gonna wait for the '18 TLX, but got that new car itch this past weekend and pulled the trigger on a 2017 IS350 F Sport, basically the new version of my precious car. Love the performance, smoothness and reliability of the 2GR-FSE motor of the IS350, the 2017 refreshed model come with updated front and rear bumpers, exhaust tips and widescreen navigation screen.
Congrats on your new car. Very nice looking upscale ride.
See I do beleive that there is absolutely something contractual going on between Honda and ZF. Why else would they maintain the ZF9 when it hurt their image so much. However I beleive there are loop holes in the contract (a.k.a it is for number of units, not per model basis) hence the use of 8DCT in TLX and 6 speed in pilot/ridgeline.
So to better explain what I am trying to say, I beleive Honda is trying to either use up a certain number of ZF boxes or for a certain time line. With that new 10 speed out, I don't see why it can't go to the TLX. Or why Honda can make a DCT for Hybrids capable of habdling a crap ton of power but not one for gasoline engines.
Lastly, the RDX is on a 6 year cycle and mules have already been spotted numerous times. There was never any implication of needing to end that model cycle fast because it is selling more than double the 1G sales iirc. The 2019 RDX is the expected FMC and it is in line. The only issue I can forsee (if you can call it that because Honda thought it would be a good idea to unveil a 10 speed on a minivan) is that the RDX is supposed to get things after the MDX does, but the MDX FMC is not due till 2020. The 2013 RDX came before the 2014 MDX did and the MDX got the jewel eyes first. So if anything, the RDX is stuck till 2020.
I'm thinking that Acura is going to throw out some "rules" in favor of updating models as necessary. Autonews says that the 2019 RDX will get the Precision Cockpit tech for instance and I hope that it does. At some point you have to just do what you have to do.
So what is exactly so special about the precision cockpit? I assume it won't show up in the TLX until the 2G shows up in a few years. Is it just the big LCD screen that replaces the gauges? That doesn't seem to be that ground breaking to me. If anything, it just sounds like another electronic gizmo that will eventually fail. Let's face it- for something that sees vibrations all day everyday, goes through extreme climate conditions, humidity variations, etc. Analogue seems to always outlast electronic.
Otherwise, we know the actual interiors will look nothing like the concept. They never do (and I'm not just speaking about Acura, but pretty much every brand).
Was gonna wait for the '18 TLX, but got that new car itch this past weekend and pulled the trigger on a 2017 IS350 F Sport, basically the new version of my precious car. Love the performance, smoothness and reliability of the 2GR-FSE motor of the IS350, the 2017 refreshed model come with updated front and rear bumpers, exhaust tips and widescreen navigation screen.
Congrats!! Beautiful car! I'm not a huge fan of Lexus's implementation of the spindle grille but the current gen IS IMO is a huge improvement over the previous gen (my wife had a 2008). Like the updates they made to the headlights in the refresh this year and the interior has been so nice ever since this gen got introduced. I drove one not too long ago when my sister was looking at one and I was so impressed by the layout, gauge cluster (especially on the F sport) and materials, fit, and finish are so high (lexus norm).
Let haters hate, you made a great purchase, hope you enjoy it!
So what is exactly so special about the precision cockpit? I assume it won't show up in the TLX until the 2G shows up in a few years. Is it just the big LCD screen that replaces the gauges? That doesn't seem to be that ground breaking to me. If anything, it just sounds like another electronic gizmo that will eventually fail. Let's face it- for something that sees vibrations all day everyday, goes through extreme climate conditions, humidity variations, etc. Analogue seems to always outlast electronic.
Otherwise, we know the actual interiors will look nothing like the concept. They never do (and I'm not just speaking about Acura, but pretty much every brand).
The big deal is that it will be completely unique from Honda and a clear step up and a clear differentiator between the two brands. Which isn't to say that everyone will like the Acura system more - nor am I saying that the tech will be perfectly implemented - but if Acura is ever going to separate itself from Honda then this is probably a necessary step. Even if the ILX and Civic share "platforms" the ILX will have more power, SHAWD, a proper transmission, AND completely different interior tech. Same with the TLX and Accord. Acura still has to execute the car - but if they do the "Honda+" people will be struggling for discussion topics.
The big deal is that it will be completely unique from Honda and a clear step up and a clear differentiator between the two brands. Which isn't to say that everyone will like the Acura system more - nor am I saying that the tech will be perfectly implemented - but if Acura is ever going to separate itself from Honda then this is probably a necessary step. Even if the ILX and Civic share "platforms" the ILX will have more power, SHAWD, a proper transmission, AND completely different interior tech. Same with the TLX and Accord. Acura still has to execute the car - but if they do the "Honda+" people will be struggling for discussion topics.
It also helps them to compete, in theory (assuming the implementation is done well), with Audi and Lexus a little more.
Was gonna wait for the '18 TLX, but got that new car itch this past weekend and pulled the trigger on a 2017 IS350 F Sport, basically the new version of my precious car. Love the performance, smoothness and reliability of the 2GR-FSE motor of the IS350, the 2017 refreshed model come with updated front and rear bumpers, exhaust tips and widescreen navigation screen.
That is a really nice looking car and would be better for the smaller parking spots where I visit. I had an IS rental a few years back when my TL was in the shop - very nice interior. I would love to get one myself but I keep hoping they'll make a hybrid for the US like they do every other country. I'll probably have to wait for the next IS as I doubt they'll change that policy. The current hybrid isn't great so that might be the reason they don't sell it in the US. I was also looking at the ES hybrid but it is bigger than I need and I hate the wooden steering wheel on the ES although I'm probably in the minority on that.
The big deal is that it will be completely unique from Honda and a clear step up and a clear differentiator between the two brands. Which isn't to say that everyone will like the Acura system more - nor am I saying that the tech will be perfectly implemented - but if Acura is ever going to separate itself from Honda then this is probably a necessary step. Even if the ILX and Civic share "platforms" the ILX will have more power, SHAWD, a proper transmission, AND completely different interior tech. Same with the TLX and Accord. Acura still has to execute the car - but if they do the "Honda+" people will be struggling for discussion topics.
Well Acura already was/is different, using the 2 screen system in their cars. Honda doesn't do that. The interiors don't look the same. The material quality is arguably only a little better. They can improve on that.
I just don't think they need to release this super futuristic looking interior to get people to buy their cars. They have much bigger issues than that, I would argue.
From what I recall, the biggest complaints about the TLX interior are:
1. materials don't feel premium enough
2. the button gear shift annoys people (personally, I think it's kind of cool and unique. I think half like it, half don't)
3. the dual screen setup effectively does what one screen can.
I don't recall people hating the actual look of any of the Acura interiors (though it may just be evading my mind at the moment). Can you?
Well Acura already was/is different, using the 2 screen system in their cars. Honda doesn't do that. The interiors don't look the same. The material quality is arguably only a little better. They can improve on that.
I just don't think they need to release this super futuristic looking interior to get people to buy their cars. They have much bigger issues than that, I would argue.
From what I recall, the biggest complaints about the TLX interior are:
1. materials don't feel premium enough
2. the button gear shift annoys people (personally, I think it's kind of cool and unique. I think half like it, half don't)
3. the dual screen setup effectively does what one screen can.
I don't recall people hating the actual look of any of the Acura interiors (though it may just be evading my mind at the moment). Can you?
Well in his defence the Accord is sort of similar. But I think the biggest issue with Acura interiors is three parts parts.
Part 1 is the material quality, it is REALLY cheap in all but the RLX and even then it is not plush like it should be. The MDX has a little bit of soft touch materials on the top of the doors, but near the handle area and below the armrest it is cheap scratchy hard plastic (even my 1G RDX was soft across the whole top of the door).
Part 2 is the relative "coldness" of the interior. The interior just feels cold to me and too corporate and hard. I don't know if I make sense by saying that, but I guess the best way I can describe it as is uninviting and very plain. The precision dash would help this, but it will not solve the other issues.
Part 3 is the DATED UI. I get into brand new Acura products and feel like I stepped into a luxury car from 2007. Don't get me wrong, the safety prevention tech is cool, but that nav really needs an update and the UI needs MASSIVE cleanup.
Lol looking back at your list again, I just realized we almost wrote the same things.
I also get the feeling the addition of a second screen on the dash isn't cheap. The screen itself, additional wire harness, etc... Those costs add up. I have a feeling the 2G will revert back to one screen again, which isn't a bad thing. It allows that money to spent elsewhere on the car.
Well Acura already was/is different, using the 2 screen system in their cars. Honda doesn't do that. The interiors don't look the same. The material quality is arguably only a little better. They can improve on that.
The Accord uses the same two screen system. My 2013 EXL did and I believe the current model still has it.
I also get the feeling the addition of a second screen on the dash isn't cheap. The screen itself, additional wire harness, etc... Those costs add up. I have a feeling the 2G will revert back to one screen again, which isn't a bad thing. It allows that money to spent elsewhere on the car.
It for sure isn't cheap to run 2 screens. But IMHO it is a case of good in theory but bad in practice. They should go back to one LARGE screen that has both touch screen and a rotary knob setup (I mean 8" on base models and 10" at least on the top models) but then have a large screen in the middle of the dash that can also show navi and other info and then supplant that with a HUD. When driving, it should be EASY to get stuff to work, not 2 screens and 2 different key boards and one touch and one knob based...etc.
It does seem that the "problems" are diminished in the 16/17 models but from my own impression the transmission does a disservice to the 290 rated HP of the the TLX. Sure it gets you a couple extra MPG but it comes at a cost. I would rather it have a 5 speed auto that matches better to the motor with decisive and instant response to the throttle and always hitting the right gear. I know not all would agree but a better trans in the car would go a long way for some of us. Nothing wrong with having a transmission that makes the car go like it has almost 300 hp. I would rather see the right gears and shifting rather than more gears.
Anyway my wish list would be as follows:
New Transmission
Bring the gear shift lever back and axe the buttons
Improve the infotainment system (add carplay/android auto already in low level hondas and probably comming with the 18 model update)
Some more "premium" look to the interior and get rid of the wood inlays or at least have another option
and
Type S model which would probably address the first two above or more and hopefully have the kind of differences that made the 3rd generation type S such an upgrade over the base tl.
I think its a few years off for much of this stuff.
The big deal is that it will be completely unique from Honda and a clear step up and a clear differentiator between the two brands. Which isn't to say that everyone will like the Acura system more - nor am I saying that the tech will be perfectly implemented - but if Acura is ever going to separate itself from Honda then this is probably a necessary step. Even if the ILX and Civic share "platforms" the ILX will have more power, SHAWD, a proper transmission, AND completely different interior tech. Same with the TLX and Accord. Acura still has to execute the car - but if they do the "Honda+" people will be struggling for discussion topics.
Maybe not. Some lower cost cars ae already running glass cockpits & one has for a number of years. Accord, being the cash cow, will want one to compete heads-up with these cars.
Also think glass, after the initial development, is cheaper to make than a dash full of analog gauges.
03-20-2017, 12:30 PM
