2018 TLX Spy Shots
12-26-2016, 11:43 PM
#441
Burning Brakes
Hate to use mean words, but if true Acura's management must be retarded plain and simple. Refusing to bring in a turbo when all of it's competition now has one and keeping on using one of the market's worst transmissions on a "sport sedan". Who gives a shit about the outside, no one complained about it! Fix the stuff that makes a car a car, you know the bloody engine and transmission!! What a bunch of idiots, I'd go to Vegas and bet for Acura to go bankrupt at this point. A car company that does not listen to its customers with sales falling, jeez I wonder what else can happen? Will see in the new year...
And the non mechanical changes are still not exciting, still need to wait a few years for the precision cockpit. Just fire the whole team and buy the Genesis brand, problem solved ... [/rant]
And the non mechanical changes are still not exciting, still need to wait a few years for the precision cockpit. Just fire the whole team and buy the Genesis brand, problem solved ... [/rant]
Last edited by pyrodan007; 12-26-2016 at 11:49 PM.
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weather (12-27-2016)
12-27-2016, 12:43 AM
#442
Team Owner
Wow that's a real bummer that there are no powertrain upgrades. I"m really disappointed, I wanted to trade in my TLX this summer for the 2018 model in hopes of a better engine (or just transmission). But I think the car can still stay somewhat competitive with just cosmetic upgrades. The 290hp isn't the problem, it's that 9spd that needs to go!
While I love getting 37mpg on the highway, I'd be perfectly happy with 30mpg and a transmission that doesn't have horrible throttle tip-in and limits power. I think Acura needs to realize that those going for the V6 likely care more for the driving experience, and can sacrifice some mpgs for better performance.
While I love getting 37mpg on the highway, I'd be perfectly happy with 30mpg and a transmission that doesn't have horrible throttle tip-in and limits power. I think Acura needs to realize that those going for the V6 likely care more for the driving experience, and can sacrifice some mpgs for better performance.
I was beyond floored when the TLX first came out and I heard that the 2.4L came with the DCT transmission, instead of the V6. Why would you opt for a vehicle with the more powerful engine and want the less sporty transmission? What where they thinking? To me, they put the less desirable engine with the more desirable transmission. The only reason I've heard why Honda gave the 2.4L the DCT was because the DCT couldn't handle the V6 power. As if they couldn't build a beefier version to handle the whopping sub 300 hp and pound feet of torque. The new NSX uses an 8 speed DCT too and it handles the power just fine. Find a damn middle ground between the two. It's not rocket science.
Last edited by TacoBello; 12-27-2016 at 12:45 AM.
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weather (12-27-2016)
12-27-2016, 03:29 AM
#443
100% agreed. There are some that want the economy, but I bet many would agree. I think in this instance it's just Honda caring more for their stance on being green, then what their customers really want. They've always been about fuel economy. They just don't advertise it very well. Actually, their "being green" advertising is abysmal at best.
I was beyond floored when the TLX first came out and I heard that the 2.4L came with the DCT transmission, instead of the V6. Why would you opt for a vehicle with the more powerful engine and want the less sporty transmission? What where they thinking? To me, they put the less desirable engine with the more desirable transmission. The only reason I've heard why Honda gave the 2.4L the DCT was because the DCT couldn't handle the V6 power. As if they couldn't build a beefier version to handle the whopping sub 300 hp and pound feet of torque. The new NSX uses an 8 speed DCT too and it handles the power just fine. Find a damn middle ground between the two. It's not rocket science.
I was beyond floored when the TLX first came out and I heard that the 2.4L came with the DCT transmission, instead of the V6. Why would you opt for a vehicle with the more powerful engine and want the less sporty transmission? What where they thinking? To me, they put the less desirable engine with the more desirable transmission. The only reason I've heard why Honda gave the 2.4L the DCT was because the DCT couldn't handle the V6 power. As if they couldn't build a beefier version to handle the whopping sub 300 hp and pound feet of torque. The new NSX uses an 8 speed DCT too and it handles the power just fine. Find a damn middle ground between the two. It's not rocket science.
The new diamond pentagon grille just rubs me the wrong way, I have seen it a few times and I don't know what it is, I just strongly dislike it. I was thinking the other day, why does the NSX come with a grille like that of the new civic, then realized that it is a Honda every where else in the world....imagine the NSX with the diamond pentagon grille...blech.
Slapping on some weird grille and keeping a shitty powertrain is really not going to cut it. Have you guys seen the new Kia Cadenza by chance? That thing looks INFINITELY better in terms of exteriror and interior, as well the transmission is a solid 8 speed and none of this silly 9 speed zf crap.
12-27-2016, 10:22 AM
#444
100% agreed. There are some that want the economy, but I bet many would agree. I think in this instance it's just Honda caring more for their stance on being green, then what their customers really want. They've always been about fuel economy. They just don't advertise it very well. Actually, their "being green" advertising is abysmal at best.
I was beyond floored when the TLX first came out and I heard that the 2.4L came with the DCT transmission, instead of the V6. Why would you opt for a vehicle with the more powerful engine and want the less sporty transmission? What where they thinking? To me, they put the less desirable engine with the more desirable transmission. The only reason I've heard why Honda gave the 2.4L the DCT was because the DCT couldn't handle the V6 power. As if they couldn't build a beefier version to handle the whopping sub 300 hp and pound feet of torque. The new NSX uses an 8 speed DCT too and it handles the power just fine. Find a damn middle ground between the two. It's not rocket science.
I was beyond floored when the TLX first came out and I heard that the 2.4L came with the DCT transmission, instead of the V6. Why would you opt for a vehicle with the more powerful engine and want the less sporty transmission? What where they thinking? To me, they put the less desirable engine with the more desirable transmission. The only reason I've heard why Honda gave the 2.4L the DCT was because the DCT couldn't handle the V6 power. As if they couldn't build a beefier version to handle the whopping sub 300 hp and pound feet of torque. The new NSX uses an 8 speed DCT too and it handles the power just fine. Find a damn middle ground between the two. It's not rocket science.
Acura put the 8DCT on the 2.4L because originally Honda wanted to use the CVT!
12-27-2016, 11:37 AM
#445
The NSX has a 9 speed DCT. It's intertwined with the electric motor just like the RLX 7 speed DCT is. In fact the 7 DCT and the 9 DCT are much more closely related than the 8 DCT is to either of those transmissions.
Acura put the 8DCT on the 2.4L because originally Honda wanted to use the CVT!
Acura put the 8DCT on the 2.4L because originally Honda wanted to use the CVT!
9zf will result in lots of missed opportunities over next 2-3 years. Worst case scenario - put 310 hp engine of rlx alongwith 6 AT in TLX A-spec version (including suspension tuing, brakes, different wheels and wider tirs). That version wont compete with S4, 340i, c43 etc but will still keep some Acura loyal people interested till FMC. What is the point in keeping that engine in RLX which no one buys?
12-27-2016, 11:57 AM
#446
Team Owner
The NSX has a 9 speed DCT. It's intertwined with the electric motor just like the RLX 7 speed DCT is. In fact the 7 DCT and the 9 DCT are much more closely related than the 8 DCT is to either of those transmissions.
Acura put the 8DCT on the 2.4L because originally Honda wanted to use the CVT!
Acura put the 8DCT on the 2.4L because originally Honda wanted to use the CVT!
Would it really have been that hard and expensive to beef the 8spd DCT transmission up by xx%, and use it in the ILX, 2.4 TLX and 3.5 TLX? As if the j35 transmission bolting pattern couldn't be revised to work with the DCT...
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pyrodan007 (12-27-2016)
12-27-2016, 12:06 PM
#447
I agree - while a power bump would be nice, it is NOT what would make this car move like hot cakes....Just give it a proper tranny! I don't mind the exterior styling that much but 10 min in the few test drive and I could NOT see myself getting excited about the car. My TL had the same amount of power and a 6 speed tranny and was far more fun and engaging to drive!
Instead of giving us a power bump, they are relying on the ZF unit to provide the natural "bump" - Lovely! Maybe they thought that people would think the ZF unit bump would feel like that car is so powerful that the fuel rocket boosters are igniting!?
Instead of giving us a power bump, they are relying on the ZF unit to provide the natural "bump" - Lovely! Maybe they thought that people would think the ZF unit bump would feel like that car is so powerful that the fuel rocket boosters are igniting!?
12-27-2016, 10:19 PM
#449
Burning Brakes
Honda saw the feedback from FCA, and from TLX users but they still decided to expand to other models. Either they don't care or they are accelerating inventory liquidation of the 9sp for the new 10sp. Honda management are all idiots to even go with it even after noticing all the problems.
Last edited by pyrodan007; 12-27-2016 at 10:32 PM.
12-28-2016, 08:17 AM
#450
Honda saw the feedback from FCA, and from TLX users but they still decided to expand to other models. Either they don't care or they are accelerating inventory liquidation of the 9sp for the new 10sp. Honda management are all idiots to even go with it even after noticing all the problems.
12-28-2016, 08:34 AM
#451
Banned
Some people need to drive the 2016 ZF9, so they will see that they have no more argument and stop whining. It is an excellent transmission, butter-smooth and crisp (similar to the ZF8), certainly the best automatic I had so far. The ZF9 is a smoother and better fit than the DCT8 of the 2.4. DCT are overrated.
Last edited by Saintor; 12-28-2016 at 08:38 AM.
12-28-2016, 08:43 AM
#452
I've got a 2015 2.4 TLX, so I feel like I dodged a bullet. I got a 2016 V6 loaner for a week when mine was in the shop and I did not notice any jerking or vibration that many have complained about. However, I did feel like the transmission was slow to upshift -- especially when mashing the accelerator. It's like turbo lag without the turbos.
12-28-2016, 09:47 AM
#453
Honda saw the feedback from FCA, and from TLX users but they still decided to expand to other models. Either they don't care or they are accelerating inventory liquidation of the 9sp for the new 10sp. Honda management are all idiots to even go with it even after noticing all the problems.
However the new Ridgeline noticeably did not get the 9AT despite sharing the platform and engine and drivetrain with the Pilot. It's strongly rumored that the new Odyssey will also not get the 9AT and will get the 10AT instead - again despite sharing platforms with the Pilot. Also the press release about the Odyssey debut mentions new powertrain tech - and we know the 10AT is coming to large Honda models. Despite appearances sometimes Honda isn't totally tone deaf.
If the 10AT does come to the Odyssey then it's clear that the 9AT is on it's way out. We'll see about the TLX. Clearly the rumors are that the 9AT is staying - and the 9AT stayed for the 2017 MDX...but the MDX already switched transmissions once. I'm putting the odds 50/50 for the rumor of the 9AT staying in the TLX being true. This is blatant and totally baseless speculation but I wonder if Honda has contractural language with ZF that makes it harder for them to get out of using the 9AT in the TLX or MDX specifically - I don't know how this stuff works but I would imagine ZF wanted to have some sort of production guarantee if they are providing such an expensive and key component. And they probably didn't want to take it one model year at a time...
12-28-2016, 09:50 AM
#454
Some people need to drive the 2016 ZF9, so they will see that they have no more argument and stop whining. It is an excellent transmission, butter-smooth and crisp (similar to the ZF8), certainly the best automatic I had so far. The ZF9 is a smoother and better fit than the DCT8 of the 2.4. DCT are overrated.
12-28-2016, 11:21 AM
#455
Banned
I've got a 2015 2.4 TLX, so I feel like I dodged a bullet. I got a 2016 V6 loaner for a week when mine was in the shop and I did not notice any jerking or vibration that many have complained about. However, I did feel like the transmission was slow to upshift -- especially when mashing the accelerator. It's like turbo lag without the turbos.
12-28-2016, 12:26 PM
#457
Burning Brakes
Call me old fashioned but all I want for Christmas is a transmission that goes when I floor it, in any mode. In emergency situations, should not have to think about what mode I'm in to compensate. I think a dual clutch should be mandatory for a modern sports car, not more gears for fuel economy.
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12-28-2016, 12:47 PM
#458
I agree with getting the power down when at full throttle in any mode. Also, here's hoping the 10-speed (which is touted to skip several gears at once on downshifts) is more efficient and reliable....and makes it's way to the MMC.
12-28-2016, 01:27 PM
#459
Moderator
12-28-2016, 01:42 PM
#460
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I think Honda is well aware of the 9AT situation. But I'm not sure if there's much they can do about it.
For instance, the 6AT is the only option for the new Ridgeline? Why does it not have the 9AT? May be because they know the 9AT is no good?
For the MDX, I think it was already too late when it got its 9AT. And going back to 6AT, people will be asking why they are going backward.
The logical solution would be to put the 10AT in. But, is that tranny ready? May be it isn't, so that's why they are still using the 9AT?
And, is there any agreement between Honda and Acura that they must use the 9AT on their vehicles? I don't know if Honda can get out of that contract just yet. The 9AT may not perform well, but it's not exactly a safety hazard.
For instance, the 6AT is the only option for the new Ridgeline? Why does it not have the 9AT? May be because they know the 9AT is no good?
For the MDX, I think it was already too late when it got its 9AT. And going back to 6AT, people will be asking why they are going backward.
The logical solution would be to put the 10AT in. But, is that tranny ready? May be it isn't, so that's why they are still using the 9AT?
And, is there any agreement between Honda and Acura that they must use the 9AT on their vehicles? I don't know if Honda can get out of that contract just yet. The 9AT may not perform well, but it's not exactly a safety hazard.
12-28-2016, 05:38 PM
#461
I think Honda is well aware of the 9AT situation. But I'm not sure if there's much they can do about it.
For instance, the 6AT is the only option for the new Ridgeline? Why does it not have the 9AT? May be because they know the 9AT is no good?
For the MDX, I think it was already too late when it got its 9AT. And going back to 6AT, people will be asking why they are going backward.
The logical solution would be to put the 10AT in. But, is that tranny ready? May be it isn't, so that's why they are still using the 9AT?
And, is there any agreement between Honda and Acura that they must use the 9AT on their vehicles? I don't know if Honda can get out of that contract just yet. The 9AT may not perform well, but it's not exactly a safety hazard.
For instance, the 6AT is the only option for the new Ridgeline? Why does it not have the 9AT? May be because they know the 9AT is no good?
For the MDX, I think it was already too late when it got its 9AT. And going back to 6AT, people will be asking why they are going backward.
The logical solution would be to put the 10AT in. But, is that tranny ready? May be it isn't, so that's why they are still using the 9AT?
And, is there any agreement between Honda and Acura that they must use the 9AT on their vehicles? I don't know if Honda can get out of that contract just yet. The 9AT may not perform well, but it's not exactly a safety hazard.
I don't understand why they never beefed up the 8DCT or if the 7DCT in the RLX is useable in non-hybrid models. I wonder how fast the MDX hyrbid will be, 30HP leap above the standard MDX, DCT vs traditional tranny, instant torque vs slow AF torque delivery, but lastly likely heavier.
Now that 10AT seems ridiculous to me, is that even necessary?
12-28-2016, 06:07 PM
#462
^^ I am with you - I am not sure what is the obsession to have 10+ gears! It is ridiculous and while I understand we are trying to save the planet, this is getting absurd!
As if saving 0.2 L/100km is gonna save the world and the poles from melting!! (sheesh - people with the 'green agenda' sure managed to get the momentum!) - I can't wait to have my 14 gears tranny with wind turbine and solar panels on the roof - I guess so much my sunroof.
As if saving 0.2 L/100km is gonna save the world and the poles from melting!! (sheesh - people with the 'green agenda' sure managed to get the momentum!) - I can't wait to have my 14 gears tranny with wind turbine and solar panels on the roof - I guess so much my sunroof.
12-28-2016, 09:44 PM
#463
The ZF9 just takes too long to program itself. I have a 16' V6 Tech and around 14K it started to feel much better, confident, I can say that it is silky smooth now. I can actually feel the where I am in the gear bands now. Honda did a good job with the civic, it would make sense for Acura to have something for those buyers to aspire for...anyways this car is good looking, I had someone come up to me today and compliment the car...and as gas prices are inching up in my area I am appreciative of econ mode..sport and sport + is redundant (I used to have a Saab 95 when I wanted to go fast I hit a button on the top of the shifter with a "S"- fast and direct, no thinking involved, on the TLX I have to scroll) I would like to see the car interior feel more premium with a dynamic interior lighting motif, ie you go faster the lights inside change color or if you are driving smart the lights shade green... they missed some opportunities with the curve of the dash, lights will accent them nicely. This car is a platform builder, I hope Acura realizes this before Tesla/Lucid and Car Sharing competition of the future shreds the market.
Also the jewel eyes..at night the jewel eye looks indistinct, there is no "shape" to it- when viewed at night it just looks like a bright light. In comparison an Audi light has an unmistakable profile when viewed from opposing traffic at night. Therefore I know I am looking at an Audi without seeing the car. That may seem like a minor detail to some but it really is not. A good design evokes that moment you just stare at the car, an Audi can have you do that in the day or night. Acura can do the same but needs to be more intentional with the positioning of each "eye", it doesn't have to be in a straight line.
Also the jewel eyes..at night the jewel eye looks indistinct, there is no "shape" to it- when viewed at night it just looks like a bright light. In comparison an Audi light has an unmistakable profile when viewed from opposing traffic at night. Therefore I know I am looking at an Audi without seeing the car. That may seem like a minor detail to some but it really is not. A good design evokes that moment you just stare at the car, an Audi can have you do that in the day or night. Acura can do the same but needs to be more intentional with the positioning of each "eye", it doesn't have to be in a straight line.
12-28-2016, 11:23 PM
#465
^^ I am with you - I am not sure what is the obsession to have 10+ gears! It is ridiculous and while I understand we are trying to save the planet, this is getting absurd!
As if saving 0.2 L/100km is gonna save the world and the poles from melting!! (sheesh - people with the 'green agenda' sure managed to get the momentum!) - I can't wait to have my 14 gears tranny with wind turbine and solar panels on the roof - I guess so much my sunroof.
As if saving 0.2 L/100km is gonna save the world and the poles from melting!! (sheesh - people with the 'green agenda' sure managed to get the momentum!) - I can't wait to have my 14 gears tranny with wind turbine and solar panels on the roof - I guess so much my sunroof.
IMO 7-8 speeds is ideal. I somewhat feel the increase in gears to absurd levels is to both compete and to try and hide car companies inability to properly program a transmission. Have the first 3-5 gears for acceleration with really low first and second gears and then have the 6-8 gears for overdrive for highway purposes. I don't ever see anyone legally needing to go fast enough to warrant 9 and 10 gears and therefore that is way too many gears spaced too close together leading to constant upshifting and difficulty downshifting, ZF had to use special clutches in their 9 speed boxes in order to allow them to make it fit into transverse layouts (reason they are sluggish as hell in certain scenarios)...what will Honda do to be able to fit it in their vehicles?
Lastly, we are all well aware of Honda and their great history with transmissions. That was only 5 speeds....I don't trust them to pull off a 10 speed to be honest.
12-29-2016, 12:09 AM
#466
Burning Brakes
I remember reading somewhere that Honda also potentially patented an 11 gear triple clutch transmission. If the 10sp doesn't work, well they'll surely have it perfected with the 11sp gear. Come on, this is Honda we are talking about, leader in innovation ..cough, excuse me, cough.
12-29-2016, 01:54 AM
#467
I remember reading somewhere that Honda also potentially patented an 11 gear triple clutch transmission. If the 10sp doesn't work, well they'll surely have it perfected with the 11sp gear. Come on, this is Honda we are talking about, leader in innovation ..cough, excuse me, cough.
After 5-6 years of trouble for any models having them.
12-29-2016, 12:21 PM
#469
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IMO Honda's decision to go with the 9AT was a place keeper. They were going into 2014 with a 6 speed automatic...other companies were using 6 speed automatics in the early 2000's. Honda was rocking a 5 speed when everyone else was rocking 6 and 7 speeds, then when everyone started using 8 and 9 speeds they were still using 5 and 6 speed transmissions. So in order to jump the gap, they used something readily available and thought let us use 9 speeds, that is one more than most of the germans and would look better on a brochure. I then think they had to sign contracts to use the tech for at least X amount of years or possibly even X amount of units (hence their use in the new pilot despite complaints). I beleive the new ridgeline forewent the 9AT because of towing requierments (Need for torque at all gears/robustness).
I don't understand why they never beefed up the 8DCT or if the 7DCT in the RLX is useable in non-hybrid models. I wonder how fast the MDX hyrbid will be, 30HP leap above the standard MDX, DCT vs traditional tranny, instant torque vs slow AF torque delivery, but lastly likely heavier.
Now that 10AT seems ridiculous to me, is that even necessary?
I don't understand why they never beefed up the 8DCT or if the 7DCT in the RLX is useable in non-hybrid models. I wonder how fast the MDX hyrbid will be, 30HP leap above the standard MDX, DCT vs traditional tranny, instant torque vs slow AF torque delivery, but lastly likely heavier.
Now that 10AT seems ridiculous to me, is that even necessary?
The Pilot and Ridgeline both have towing capacity of 5000lb. Yet the Pilot offers 9AT, and not the Ridgeline. This makes me think that Honda is well aware of the 9AT issue. It's easy to just launch a new vehicle with a 6AT, but it wouldn't look good if they replace an existing 9AT with a 6AT.
About the 8-DCT. I agree, I wouldn't think it's rocket science to makes something that is stronger to withstand more torque. But it's Honda we are talking about and sometimes they make decisions that we cannot understand.
Something I am trying to figure out is, ok so increasing the number of gears allows for the first gear to be lower and therefore better acceleration and the top gears to be higher and therefore the car can run at a lower RPM at higher speeds for fuel economy. Ok so my question is, at what number of gears does it start causing a negative effect on fuel economy and a hugely negative effect on drivability?
IMO 7-8 speeds is ideal. I somewhat feel the increase in gears to absurd levels is to both compete and to try and hide car companies inability to properly program a transmission. Have the first 3-5 gears for acceleration with really low first and second gears and then have the 6-8 gears for overdrive for highway purposes. I don't ever see anyone legally needing to go fast enough to warrant 9 and 10 gears and therefore that is way too many gears spaced too close together leading to constant upshifting and difficulty downshifting, ZF had to use special clutches in their 9 speed boxes in order to allow them to make it fit into transverse layouts (reason they are sluggish as hell in certain scenarios)...what will Honda do to be able to fit it in their vehicles?
Lastly, we are all well aware of Honda and their great history with transmissions. That was only 5 speeds....I don't trust them to pull off a 10 speed to be honest.
IMO 7-8 speeds is ideal. I somewhat feel the increase in gears to absurd levels is to both compete and to try and hide car companies inability to properly program a transmission. Have the first 3-5 gears for acceleration with really low first and second gears and then have the 6-8 gears for overdrive for highway purposes. I don't ever see anyone legally needing to go fast enough to warrant 9 and 10 gears and therefore that is way too many gears spaced too close together leading to constant upshifting and difficulty downshifting, ZF had to use special clutches in their 9 speed boxes in order to allow them to make it fit into transverse layouts (reason they are sluggish as hell in certain scenarios)...what will Honda do to be able to fit it in their vehicles?
Lastly, we are all well aware of Honda and their great history with transmissions. That was only 5 speeds....I don't trust them to pull off a 10 speed to be honest.
But honestly, by then, why not just go with a CVT. Each time you shift up, the rpm is gonna drop so little that it will probably sound like a CVT-equipped car anyway...haha
12-29-2016, 12:58 PM
#470
I remember reading somewhere that Honda also potentially patented an 11 gear triple clutch transmission. If the 10sp doesn't work, well they'll surely have it perfected with the 11sp gear. Come on, this is Honda we are talking about, leader in innovation ..cough, excuse me, cough.
And we know that the 10AT is a working transmission - it was road tested over a year ago in an Acura RLX and the scuttlebutt was that we'd first see it in MY2018 vehicles.
I think the 11 speed is just a technology exercise at this point.
12-29-2016, 04:01 PM
#471
Team Owner
Some people need to drive the 2016 ZF9, so they will see that they have no more argument and stop whining. It is an excellent transmission, butter-smooth and crisp (similar to the ZF8), certainly the best automatic I had so far. The ZF9 is a smoother and better fit than the DCT8 of the 2.4. DCT are overrated.
Now granted, a 2.4L TLX is the furthest thing from a sport sedan, and to me and apparently others too, Acura paired a daily driver, non sporty, regular ol' sedan with a sport transmission. No wonder people are complaining. Especially since there really is no other option for such a car, unless people pony up the money for the more sporty, dare I say "more sport focused" sedan with the daily driver, non sporty, regular ol' transmission.
The problem is two fold. Acura is trying to build one car to cater to way too many people. The other problem is they totally screwed up with the engine and transmission pairings, and figured no one would notice.
Last edited by TacoBello; 12-29-2016 at 04:04 PM.
12-29-2016, 04:59 PM
#472
^^ And that is why I wish Acura would have more car lineup or a sport division to cater to the purist and people that love to row their own gears or want a car more engaging that the "appliance" they have given us. I still laugh when I think of the concept they showed, the slogan they developed, the pre-release videos they showed the soon to be released TLX driving through a dead city and jumping in mid air as it flew over a dip in the road, getting all our MOJO going (for those of us who have some) and then BANG...the release:
1. ugly wheels with fat Good Year tires
2. Laggy and non engaging tranny
3. Bland styling (compared to the concept)
What a let down.....but I am sure the guys at Acura are fully aware of teh total fuck up they have done with the TLX - I don't want to beat a dead horse but in case they do read these posts, I'll say it again just because it feels great - You guys at Acura are MORONS and INCOMPETENT (phew that felt good)
1. ugly wheels with fat Good Year tires
2. Laggy and non engaging tranny
3. Bland styling (compared to the concept)
What a let down.....but I am sure the guys at Acura are fully aware of teh total fuck up they have done with the TLX - I don't want to beat a dead horse but in case they do read these posts, I'll say it again just because it feels great - You guys at Acura are MORONS and INCOMPETENT (phew that felt good)
12-29-2016, 06:08 PM
#473
Burning Brakes
^^ I agree with everything that Weather said, times two for message to Acura!
Unrelated to the new TLX, but any news about the hybrid MDX's release? Seems like it's taking longer than planned. I'm interested in it since they could very well use that new 3.0l turbo V6 in the MMC TLX. Better fuel economy to match ZF9 (seems like it's not going away) and MUCH more low end torque for a true sports sedan! Will for sure help acceleration since transmission will not really need to do anything to go faster.
Unrelated to the new TLX, but any news about the hybrid MDX's release? Seems like it's taking longer than planned. I'm interested in it since they could very well use that new 3.0l turbo V6 in the MMC TLX. Better fuel economy to match ZF9 (seems like it's not going away) and MUCH more low end torque for a true sports sedan! Will for sure help acceleration since transmission will not really need to do anything to go faster.
12-30-2016, 02:24 AM
#474
I agree. I think Honda was just desperate to get something more than 6 gear ratios for their Acura models. Man did it backfire..lol.
The Pilot and Ridgeline both have towing capacity of 5000lb. Yet the Pilot offers 9AT, and not the Ridgeline. This makes me think that Honda is well aware of the 9AT issue. It's easy to just launch a new vehicle with a 6AT, but it wouldn't look good if they replace an existing 9AT with a 6AT.
About the 8-DCT. I agree, I wouldn't think it's rocket science to makes something that is stronger to withstand more torque. But it's Honda we are talking about and sometimes they make decisions that we cannot understand.
Haha, semi-trucks have what...18 gears?? May be one day passenger cars will be there.
But honestly, by then, why not just go with a CVT. Each time you shift up, the rpm is gonna drop so little that it will probably sound like a CVT-equipped car anyway...haha
The Pilot and Ridgeline both have towing capacity of 5000lb. Yet the Pilot offers 9AT, and not the Ridgeline. This makes me think that Honda is well aware of the 9AT issue. It's easy to just launch a new vehicle with a 6AT, but it wouldn't look good if they replace an existing 9AT with a 6AT.
About the 8-DCT. I agree, I wouldn't think it's rocket science to makes something that is stronger to withstand more torque. But it's Honda we are talking about and sometimes they make decisions that we cannot understand.
Haha, semi-trucks have what...18 gears?? May be one day passenger cars will be there.
But honestly, by then, why not just go with a CVT. Each time you shift up, the rpm is gonna drop so little that it will probably sound like a CVT-equipped car anyway...haha
^^ And that is why I wish Acura would have more car lineup or a sport division to cater to the purist and people that love to row their own gears or want a car more engaging that the "appliance" they have given us. I still laugh when I think of the concept they showed, the slogan they developed, the pre-release videos they showed the soon to be released TLX driving through a dead city and jumping in mid air as it flew over a dip in the road, getting all our MOJO going (for those of us who have some) and then BANG...the release:
1. ugly wheels with fat Good Year tires
2. Laggy and non engaging tranny
3. Bland styling (compared to the concept)
What a let down.....but I am sure the guys at Acura are fully aware of teh total fuck up they have done with the TLX - I don't want to beat a dead horse but in case they do read these posts, I'll say it again just because it feels great - You guys at Acura are MORONS and INCOMPETENT (phew that felt good)
1. ugly wheels with fat Good Year tires
2. Laggy and non engaging tranny
3. Bland styling (compared to the concept)
What a let down.....but I am sure the guys at Acura are fully aware of teh total fuck up they have done with the TLX - I don't want to beat a dead horse but in case they do read these posts, I'll say it again just because it feels great - You guys at Acura are MORONS and INCOMPETENT (phew that felt good)
Last but not least, fire that fruitloop merreck and get someone with eyes to start designing.
12-30-2016, 10:45 AM
#475
Burning Brakes
I remember people saying that about the looks of the 4G TL. I think Acura might want to go ca-razy and pick something that doesn't have to "grow" on people. Maybe make something that looks nice at first glance.
12-30-2016, 12:30 PM
#477
This is the exact prototype I saw at the Marysville OH Factory back in May. There was a white one and I wasn't able to take a photo of it due to tour restrictions. The Lower fascia really reminded me of the Previous Gen SE Toyota Camry upclose. They got rid of the lower middle "TL" trademark fascia (3G, 4G and current TLX has it).
12-30-2016, 12:50 PM
#478
You'll Never Walk Alone
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Yeah it might actually just be more about trying to use up X amount of units, that, and the Pilot's arch nemesis the toyota highlander just got an 8 speed auto. Except toyota was smart and went with an aisen 8 speed which has been well proven in many other models. Honda always makes decisions we don't understand haha. I think semis have that many gears to help deal with towing extremely heavy loads and balancing some efficiency. Neither of which are needed in a passenger vehicle. You know I was thinking the exact same thing, why not just stick a CVT with infinite ratios in vs 20 gears?
Something I will NEVER understand is how someone at Acura HQ thought it was a good idea to kill a nameplate that has a serious backing behind it (A.K.A TL) and then bastardize the thing by morphing it with a smaller car and shrinking it to a different size class. The TL was going to be in its' 5th generation, you don't kill a car like that. I don't care if Infiniti changed their names to the Q whatever scheme, that by the way caused infiniti to have a bit of a stir if I remember correctly. I'm going to reserve final judgement on the new grille until a full model upgrade on any of the models (which might actually be the RDX first). It looks ugly because it is essentially tacked on to the MDX. it might actually look good if it is put onto a car that it was designed around.
Last but not least, fire that fruitloop merreck and get someone with eyes to start designing.
Something I will NEVER understand is how someone at Acura HQ thought it was a good idea to kill a nameplate that has a serious backing behind it (A.K.A TL) and then bastardize the thing by morphing it with a smaller car and shrinking it to a different size class. The TL was going to be in its' 5th generation, you don't kill a car like that. I don't care if Infiniti changed their names to the Q whatever scheme, that by the way caused infiniti to have a bit of a stir if I remember correctly. I'm going to reserve final judgement on the new grille until a full model upgrade on any of the models (which might actually be the RDX first). It looks ugly because it is essentially tacked on to the MDX. it might actually look good if it is put onto a car that it was designed around.
Last but not least, fire that fruitloop merreck and get someone with eyes to start designing.
Yea, CVT isn't bad but it sounds too boring...lol..
The 2G and 3G TL were great. The 4G TL was also a decent car but its appearance wasn't good. It also wasn't selling that well. I think combining the TSX and TL made sense. Both of them were dropping in sales, and somewhat cannibalizing each other in terms of sales. Acura also wanted to consolidate its model names. The issue is the execution. When you look at the interior dimensions of the TLX, 2G TSX, and the 4G TL, the differences are pretty small. The TL is noticeably longer, but a lot of that is because of the pointy nose and rear. The wheelbase of the TLX and 4G TL is exactly he same at 109.3". The TSX is actually shorter at 106". If anything, I think Acura could've done a better job with optimizing the interior to make the rear legroom more on the TLX.
Going back the exeuction issue, while interior size is fine, the interior feels cheaper in the TLX than the TL. Then there's the powertrain choices. The 2.4L with 8-DCT is a fine combo for an entry level trim. At launch, it competed well with 320i, ATS 2.5, IS250, etc. The 3.5L V6 is fine too, and on paper, 9AT is excellent news. Given its pricing, it's more or less competes with the 328i, A4 2.0T, ATS 3.6L, IS350, C300, etc. It does a good job against those cars. The problem IMO is that, there's nothing above the 3.5L V6 to go against 340i, S4, C450 AMG.
And then there's the marketing. Acura is trying to sell the TLX as a sports sedan. But it really isn't one. Where's the 300+ hp engine? Where's sporty suspension? Where's the summer tire option? Where are the exhaust tips?
IMO, Acura should've sold the TLX as an alternative to the Lexus ES350. While the interior may not feel as luxurious, but it's noticeably cheaper and it's pretty darn quiet inside. It also feels a bit more sporty than the ES350.
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12-30-2016, 04:45 PM
#479
06 TL 6MT + 18 ATS-V 8AT
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This is the exact prototype I saw at the Marysville OH Factory back in May. There was a white one and I wasn't able to take a photo of it due to tour restrictions. The Lower fascia really reminded me of the Previous Gen SE Toyota Camry upclose. They got rid of the lower middle "TL" trademark fascia (3G, 4G and current TLX has it).
12-30-2016, 05:02 PM
#480
At the end of the day we will vote with our wallets. TLX sales have already plummeted. If they can't see the writing on the wall nothing will change. Imagine owning an Acura dealership with millions invested and these morons can't build a decent sedan for over a decade to increase the profits. Without MDX and RDX they would bankrupt long time ago.