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And I doubt it's an A-spec. There's no kit on the car.
But there are definite differences from the earlier spy shots...
That is from the original set of spy shots we saw. Note the different rear exhaust, the chrome window trim, the current I4 wheels...and the lack of any tape along the bottom of the doors...and the different shade of blue paint. If you look at the set of red spy shots from Motortrend it looks like - at the rear wheel opening - there is some sort of termination point for a piece of trim along the bottom of the doors.
So maybe the entire front and rear clips are different?
Say what you want, but I love the ZDX! Most of AZ hates it, but there's a small group of us who do like it.
I know. We're crazy.
lol yup...same....hahaha..
Originally Posted by weather
When you read the comment sections, they explain that the electronics has created many problems and the reason they can't recommend the car at this point. They are praising the dynamics and improvements in general - Most publication mostly comment on things like handling, styling, stopping/accelerating and features in the car. That is my theory anyway.
Yup, I know that there are some comments about the article. But I'm talking more about their article, where CR dinged the Civic for uncomfortable seats, a frustrating center touchscreen, a lack of a blind-spot monitoring system, and a shortage of cars available with Honda’s Sensing safety suite. I understand the center touchscreen can be frustrating. But the other complaints don't seem to be in line with most other publications. The only Civic trim that doesn't have Honda Sensing suite is the DX. You can get it on LX, EX, and Touring. The DX doesn't have blind-spot monitoring system, but lanewatch is standard on EX and up.
Back on topic, the new spy photos look promising. The grille seems to be well matched and it's great to see exhaust tips again.
My guess is that there will be no Type S. Instead, we will see a new 2.0T trim slotted below the 3.5 V6 and Sport Hybrid trim to compete with the likes of 340i, C43 AMG, etc.
Back on topic, the new spy photos look promising. The grille seems to be well matched and it's great to see exhaust tips again.
My guess is that there will be no Type S. Instead, we will see a new 2.0T trim slotted below the 3.5 V6 and Sport Hybrid trim to compete with the likes of 340i, C43 AMG, etc.
This would make the most sense - except:
How would the 2.0T slot "below" the J35? The 2.0T is basically just as powerful as the J is. Is Acura going to come out with a 220 hp version of the 2.0T and have THAT be the debut version of the 2.0T in the USA? I think once Honda decided to use the 1.5T in the Si it pretty much ruled out, for the near future, any kind of "low output" 2.0T. I think Acura wants to use the 2.0T extensively but I think the floor will be around 260 hp - note that the Chinese-only Avancier has a 268 hp/272 lb-ft 2.0t in it.
And - A 377 hp TLX Sport Hybrid would weigh almost 4000 lbs. Can that car get to 60 in under 5 seconds? The 340/C43/Q50 Red are all mid 4 seconds to 60 so really 4.7-4.8 seconds to 60 would be a more realistic target if Acura actually wants to compete with those vehicles....
But there is a poster over on TOV, who seems to know some things, that says he knows for a "fact" that the TLX is getting a new engine for MY2018.
So we will see I guess. I think if the TLX gets the 2.0T it will be somewhere between 275-285 hp. So it would be K24 FWD/2.0T SHAWD/possible J35 sport hybrid. And then when the next-gen TLX debuts it will drop the K24 version altogether and let the new ILX take over that pricing space.
I'd be surprised if Acura drops the k24 version. They likely sell a load of those, simply due to price. Cheaper models always sell like hot cakes compared to the more premium and expensive offerings. The TLX would be moving itself up a half class higher, which I can't foresee being good for sales. They don't have the brand cache to be able to do so.
However, I would totally be in favor of three engine offerings... Though that would be a first for Honda/Acura, ever. I just don't see it being economical to do so, especially when only moving around 30-40k units per year.
I am thinking about the Caddy ATS route, where it has 2.5, 2.0T, and 3.6L. Acura can do the same with the TLX with 2.4, 2.0T, and 3.5L.
For the ATS:
2.5: 202hp
2.0T: 272hp
3.6: 321hp
TLX can have something like the following:
2.4: 206hp
2.0T: 250-270hp
3.5: 315hp (improved RLX's engine)
3.5 SH: 370hp
I know that in the 9G CTR, the 2.0T has 306hp. With that kind of boost, it also has more noticeably turbo lag, or at least, more than what a typical luxury sedan buyer would want. This is why I think Acura would tune the engine differently. May be give it a smaller turbo for quicker response and more low end grunt. Using the Avancier's version you mentioned in the TLX. It makes the most sense as it's still some 40hp lower than the V6.
The weight difference between a RLX P-AWS and RLX SH is 343lb. If we add that weight to the TLX P-AWS V6, it will be about 3930lb depends on what pkg you have. That might sound like a lot, but the likes of C450 AMG, 340i x drive, Q50 Redsport 400 RWD, are all 3800-3900lb too.
Right now, the most powerful TLX is much slower. , so if the TLX SH can do 0-60mph in the 4's, that would be pretty decent. With the DCT and instant torque from the hybrid system, launching should be a piece of cake. Those vehicles you mentioned, you will need to do some brake boosting to do 0-60mph 4.5s. The 5-60mph figures aren't as impressive.
I think that poster you are referring to is rolledansx? I follow his posts too and he gets most of his stuff right...haha. I think he's referring to the 2.0T.
I'd be surprised if Acura drops the k24 version. They likely sell a load of those, simply due to price. Cheaper models always sell like hot cakes compared to the more premium and expensive offerings. The TLX would be moving itself up a half class higher, which I can't foresee being good for sales. They don't have the brand cache to be able to do so.
However, I would totally be in favor of three engine offerings... Though that would be a first for Honda/Acura, ever. I just don't see it being economical to do so, especially when only moving around 30-40k units per year.
Yea, I don't know if Acura will drop the K24. That version is quite popular and reliable. It's no slouch either. It also offers great bang for the buck.
OTOH, Lexus dropped the IS250 after introducing IS200t. So...I don't know...either way is possible...
I don't think we'll see any substantial changes to the powertrain in this generation, particularly in the engine department. Maybe a tune of the J35 and K24 to 300hp and 225hp, respectively.
Can't wait to see the 2018 MMC in the flesh...the Fb pics have given me hope but I think I am holding off for the 2020 overhaul.
Kia didnt become what it is today until the Optima rolled out which was penned by an ex Audi guy, Hyundai (spelling close enough) just hired the Bugatti Chiron designer, Acura you need to knock the TLX design out of the box so that you can capitalize on the buzz around the NSX, some random rich guy who was pissed at Ferrari for not allowing him to buy an Enzo proclaimed the NSX as the greatest car ever and Jaloponik broadcast that to a bajillion car heads. Acura strike while the iron is hot or else people are seriously about to start jumping to brands with passion in their design, detail, and performance.
Not sure if it's just me but that blue seems different from the fathom blue. Looks interesting. It ain't no Type S that's for sure, brakes are the same as my TL-eX...
The 4G SH-AWD (somewhat of an "S" model) also didn't get beefed up brakes, visually at least. And neither did the RLX/MDX hybrids. With other brands, it's usually pretty obvious whether you're seeing an S/RS, M/M-sport, etc. We can all thank Acura's inconsistent design/branding elements for this guessing game
Also, who says this car is complete? The exhaust doesn't look finalized. I'm not sure the wheels are either. They may come in that size, but look completely different.
Brakes could be no different. The second people would see Brembos or Akebonos on an Acura, they'd scream "TYYYYYYYYYPE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!"
I am thinking about the Caddy ATS route, where it has 2.5, 2.0T, and 3.6L. Acura can do the same with the TLX with 2.4, 2.0T, and 3.5L.
For the ATS:
2.5: 202hp
2.0T: 272hp
3.6: 321hp
TLX can have something like the following:
2.4: 206hp
2.0T: 250-270hp
3.5: 315hp (improved RLX's engine)
3.5 SH: 370hp
I know that in the 9G CTR, the 2.0T has 306hp. With that kind of boost, it also has more noticeably turbo lag, or at least, more than what a typical luxury sedan buyer would want. This is why I think Acura would tune the engine differently. May be give it a smaller turbo for quicker response and more low end grunt. Using the Avancier's version you mentioned in the TLX. It makes the most sense as it's still some 40hp lower than the V6.
The weight difference between a RLX P-AWS and RLX SH is 343lb. If we add that weight to the TLX P-AWS V6, it will be about 3930lb depends on what pkg you have. That might sound like a lot, but the likes of C450 AMG, 340i x drive, Q50 Redsport 400 RWD, are all 3800-3900lb too.
Right now, the most powerful TLX is much slower. , so if the TLX SH can do 0-60mph in the 4's, that would be pretty decent. With the DCT and instant torque from the hybrid system, launching should be a piece of cake. Those vehicles you mentioned, you will need to do some brake boosting to do 0-60mph 4.5s. The 5-60mph figures aren't as impressive.
I think that poster you are referring to is rolledansx? I follow his posts too and he gets most of his stuff right...haha. I think he's referring to the 2.0T.
you're dreaming if you think there will be four power/drivetrain models. They don't make that kind of money on these cars.
you're dreaming if you think there will be four power/drivetrain models. They don't make that kind of money on these cars.
Hard to say - they keep making the RLX - selling less than a tenth of the number of those each month than they do the TLX. A few different powertrains doesn't seem nearly as expensive as making a whole car very few people want.
That being said - if they were to offer 4 I'd suggest
a. 4 cylinder
b. 4 cylinder hybrid (concentration on MPG with reasonable acceleration)
c. 6 cylinder sport model (concentration on speed and enough HP for a school bus)
d. 6 cylinder AWD model
I don't care about HP - just acceleration and mpg. I understand for those anxious for a type S posting on this forum, HP seems to be the common request. Since HP doesn't really equate to acceleration I'm curious why HP is so important. This isn't meant to be a wise-guy comment, I mentioned I'm not a car expert so I'm curious. Is there a specific acceleration number you are hoping for or is it being used to tow something?
I'd be surprised if Acura drops the k24 version. They likely sell a load of those, simply due to price. Cheaper models always sell like hot cakes compared to the more premium and expensive offerings. The TLX would be moving itself up a half class higher, which I can't foresee being good for sales. They don't have the brand cache to be able to do so.
However, I would totally be in favor of three engine offerings... Though that would be a first for Honda/Acura, ever. I just don't see it being economical to do so, especially when only moving around 30-40k units per year.
I just feel like Acura doesn't have much choice in some ways. The competition, other than Caddy (and the ATS sells very poorly) and BMW (with the 320i) doesn't compete anywhere near the level of the I4 TLX. And it's because of vehicles like the ILX - the CLA and A3 sell pretty well and make money and the C-class and A4 have moved up to accommodate them. Isn't BMW bringing the 2 series sedan over at some point?
So if Acura only has two engines - at most three - how do they make that decision? BMW has shown that using a 2.0T can give an automaker the flexibility to continue to compete at a "lower" level while still offering a version above it with essentially the same engine with the 320/330.
And as important for brand image reasons the 340/M3 and C43/C63 are - BMW and Mercedes sell a hell of a lot more 328s and C300s than they do of any other car. Look at the mix of vehicles on their dealer lots.
So I guess my point is that Acura has that kind of volume engine/version of the TLX and it's the I4 version - I think Acura wants to raise their average transaction price so making a more capable/more desirable/more expensive "base" version would very much be to their benefit. I also think Acura should work very hard to make SHAWD a part of the equation here. They need some SHAWD options below $40K
I also think that the FWD V6 is doing the brand no favors at $35K. There are just too many good performance options at that price point for Acura to be trying to push the same formula as the Lexus ES as a "performance" option. It also gives buyers interested in the I4 FWD few reasons to move up - I feel like every review of the TLX says that the FWD I4 is more fun and probably "better" than the V6 FWD. The $35-$37K window needs a SHAWD option in it - and the only TLX with FWD should be the I4.
If it were up to me this is what I'd do for the MMC to attack these problems.
Keep the K24 I4 version around - same basic specs and price as now (maybe upgrade the brakes/wheels/tires). FWD base/Tech.
Drop the FWD and SHAWD V6 version. Replace it with a 2.0T SHAWD version starting at like $36,000 with ~268 hp. The combined MPG figure for the current TLX FWD and AWD is the same so why keep the FWD version around? I for one think a 2.0T SHAWD is a lot more desirable than a V6 FWD - but that's just me. Base/Tech/Advance with A-Spec on Tech/Advance. A-Spec would be more than just an appearance package. The 2.0T would be tuned to put out more power (~300) and a bunch of other stuff would be done (wheels/tires/suspension/brakes/front and rear clips, etc). This would essentially be the "replacement" for the V6 SHAWD TLX with more performance from the factory - and pricing would run about the same. $36/$39/$42 with A-spec tech/advance at $43/46. Regular 2.0T 6 seconds to 60, A-Spec something like 5.3.
Sport Hybrid at 377 hp. $45/$50K for tech/advance. I think this car would deliver 0-60 times in the high 4s.
Then - at the FMC - they can drop the I4 version entirely and add a FWD 2.0T version starting at like $34K. That would also set them up to replace the J35 Sport Hybrid with a next-gen 2.0T-based Sport Hybrid that would definitely be more powerful and probably more efficient.
That also gives the ILX more room to operate. ILX 1.5T base/tech FWD ($28/$31) - 1.5T Tech A-Spec (with manual option) ($33K) SHAWD 2.0T base/tech ($35K/$39K).
I'd love to get a turbo 4 and AWD combo. A turbo without AWD is a bit useless in Canada. I'd bet that they sell way more Canadian 3.5s than 4s simply due to AWD (FWD 3.5 is gone, about time).
But the problem lies in what's between the engine and the wheels. They need to drop the ZF or else any sportiness injected in the new TLX will be lost once the pedal is pressed. Honda has a good 8sp DC, should have beefed it up. I don't want Honda's new 10sp, who knows what the hell is wrong with that one once it comes out!
Why would a turbo 4 be useless in Canada? Just because you have a turbo, doesn't mean you're flooring the throttle at all times. It's literally like driving an equivalent V6. I'm sure there are plenty of FWD V6 owners on here, living in Canada, without issue. 250-300hp at the front wheels isn't all that crazy. And that's exactly where today's 2.0Ts lie, in terms of power.
and for the record, the wifey drives a 2.0T FWD car, year round... Haven't had an issue in now her 5th winter driving the car.
Don't get me wrong, not saying just a turbo is bad. It's just that in Canda AWD cars tend to sell much better compared to the same model's FWD version. In the past, Acura said that the 2.4 didn't have enough power for AWD. With a turbo, should be much better. The problem might be the transmission since just like the 3.5, more torque becomes a problem.
What if they had a hybrid for mpg and another hybrid kind of like the sports hybrid for AWD? You'd get the torque and the AWD with probably slightly better mpg than a standard AWD without hybrid tech.
What if they had a hybrid for mpg and another hybrid kind of like the sports hybrid for AWD? You'd get the torque and the AWD with probably slightly better mpg than a standard AWD without hybrid tech.
Two hybrids? That would be two slow selling vehicles for a model that is already slow selling...
Honda deosnt appear to be listing the ZF9 anymore.
What scares me is that the 9sp may very well be replaced with the new 10sp since the 8sp DC is not strong enough for V6s. Unless they beefed it up!!!!!!!
Well seeing as it's a Cosworth racing sourced block, able to rev to astronomical numbers and is attached to a twin turbo system... I wouldn't count on it making its way into a 30k sedan. There's just no way.
The main "insider" over on TOV - rolled - says that the TLX MMC is getting the 2.0T. And that this TLX will be the first main-line Acura to be "related" to the NSX. I'm guessing special NSX-like paint colors (Andaro/Nouvelle Blue and Curva Red we've seen).
The main "insider" over on TOV - rolled - says that the TLX MMC is getting the 2.0T. And that this TLX will be the first main-line Acura to be "related" to the NSX. I'm guessing special NSX-like paint colors (Andaro/Nouvelle Blue and Curva Red we've seen).
Interesting - mated to what transmission? Seems to me, as far as the TLX is concerned, *that's* the key here.
12-13-2016, 12:35 PM
