I watched the unveiling live and my immediate impression was more positive than negative. The car seems better than I expected it to be. It seems like I'm not alone. The majority of us like the car in some ways, but we're not in love with it either. It's because we know the car has definite potential but it would take some modding to get it there. The PS skills are awesome. Pure testament to what it could look like.

The front looks exactly as I predicted. They are too stubborn to get rid of that ugly beak aren't they? What is their problem? It is nearly universally despised. Most 4G owners have compromised or grown to deal with it. I thought maybe it could grow on me, I gave it a chance. It hasn't. As they pasted it on their full line, it has single-handedly destroyed my impression of Acura for design. So much so, Acura hasn't been on my list for my "next car". Then Honda in general destroyed their whole line in terms of design as well. (for example, the Pilot) Sad because they are all great cars otherwise. I know many agree with me. What is most perplexing is that Acura actually knows the grille is ugly too, evidenced by them toning it down progressively. OK, so they get it, how about ELIMINATE it now! These guys at the top of Acura are obviously bull-headed business types that are not in touch with their real customer's opinions. They unveil their cars with similar marketing hype, mumbo-jumbo adjectives. Frankly I was laughing that anyone is stupid and naive enough to buy into it. The truth only comes out when they remove the sheet. The product speaks for itself, why talk? lol. Stop acting as if you know what the "new design trend" is going to look like or trying to invent the new progressive look; the "new fad". Some people's definition of art is whatever looks weird, crazy, disproportionate, mismatched, different etc. just to look different. Sorry we don't all subscribe to Lady GaGa definition of "art", that is all just hype to market off of sheep. It's all short term sales from early adopters who like the status of the cutting edge newest thing out; even if it looks ugly. In my definition of "art", it HAS TO LOOK GOOD. I'm IN the car and I always want to look good, lol. If I buy the TLX I wouldn't mask it or hide the grille. The only solution for me would be to cut that thing right off without hesitation and back it up with mesh. Although I like the car overall, the beak grille is still mistake #1 with the design and this age has to be over to crawl out of the hole Acura. You can't skate by on MDX sales forever. OK, I know, enough ranting about the grille.

I really like the headlights. Lower bumper looks kind of Type-Sish. Chrome has to GO and I'm sure it will be toned down or eliminated on production. Wish it had fogs but I'm sure that will be filled in on an upcoming A-Spec or Type-S model. You know THIS gen will definitely get one as they are hyping up the so-called "performance" edge of this car and the badge will be the only way to back it up as well as keep up with the competition's sporty variants. The 4th gen had a 6-spd model that didn't get the distinction of predecessors and really didn't get the attention it deserved because it looked so plain. The mirrors and wheels look cool but as many have said, and we all know, it won't be production. It's the reason why they called this a prototype. Acura is actually one of the better brands out there with wheels, I'm not to worried, I'm sure there will be a decent 19"/20" option. Rear bumper chrome garnish has to go! No exhaust tips? Don't like that. Look how much better it looks with quads. If it really goes into production this way then ATLP or RV6 has to come up with something!

The side profile and rear profile looks WAY better than I expected. It has a strong, sporty, masculine look in that rear 3/4. The only problem is it looks a bit generic and VERY Lexus-like. Not totally a bad thing because it IS handsome. The 3GTL has a truly unique rear profile, there is no car like it and that's what I liked about it. I'm sure everyone has noticed all the newest import car tail lights look VERY similar. Optima, Mazda6, ES350, GS350, Q50, etc. So why is this car so polarized? Generic and agreeable rear profile and front end that's different but not in a good way? I don't get it.

I have a feeling that the 4cyl car will be way better than expected. Drove the ILX 6-spd and came away VERY impressed. Drove just like a Civic Si (duh, that's exactly what it is.) Just didn't like the bland styling. So I'm pretty sure there will be a similar dynamic in the TLX and it will sell well. Not too worried about the V6, I'm sure it will be a gem as most Honda engines are. I really wished the dual clutch would be in the V6. They already said it won't be and will be a 9-speed. That is a mistake. It would have made my purchase more likely. And a 6spd would consider me sold, be we all know it isn't gonna happen. That age is really over and the industry is really going away from the manuals. Though WE all want it, we are the minority. We are enthusiasts. You have to consider that the TLX is not considered a niche vehicle like a Miata or a 911 which will continue to be offered as a manual. It is a volume car. These calculator crunchers cater to the masses. I give credit to Honda, BMW etc. that at least it has held out this long as some of the last companies that still puts manuals in certain volume cars to cater to the enthusiasts. But the engineers will tell u the dual clutches are better and faster than you will ever be. The sales guys will say they sell better. And that's what wins. The TLX from Acura's viewpoint seems like a real generation up so a manual probably seems archaic to them. I think a dual clutch is more likely than a 6-speed option later.

So this makes the possibility of the TLX as my "next car" probable. (honestly I was looking to jump ship and go back to a European marque again.) It really does hinge on the interior design, another weak point for Honda in recent years. We know it will be FULL to the brim with tech, Acura has always been ahead of the curve for that. Not to mention Acura's strongest suit of all; value. The car will be loaded at a reasonable price. (More than what I can say about the RLX.) Let's see how the design looks and it will be make or break in my book.

Just a final note: You know it never ceases to amaze me how ordinary people (I'll assume the fellow members who are doing the PS pics on the TLX are not real Acura designers.) can do a 1000x BETTER job than any of the so-called "designers" at Acura/Honda. These are people who have a different career/line of work, yet they can make a car look better than those who get paid the big bucks to make ugly designs they call "art". People say it isn't easy to design a good looking car that the majority of people agree with. Really? Look at all our reactions to what our AZ guys can come up with a few minutes behind the computer. The majority of us like designs that look like that. Many of us with tastefully modded cars get compliments on the street from other enthusiasts, obviously, but also from plenty of people who aren't enthusiasts as well. Although some people have extreme tastes, most people DO agree with each other and have a general sense of what is good-looking. Why is this such rocket science to them? If they took notes they would really sell some cars and be back on top where they once were.

 

Your avatar is hilarious and, well, kind of indicative of male/female relations.

 

Amazing the things one finds on Live Leak... :P

 

Nice work Photog. I personally don't mind the standard grill (though I think it would look better in gunmetal grey than the current silver) but your grill design looks awesome. Simple but racy.


Love the quads tips that you did to the other picture as well. Type-S style...

 

 

Go drive a new RDX with the 3.5L... it's sweet...butter smooth, better fuel economy, free reving happy go lucky J series, and the power is on QUICK. downside? SHWD is gone and so are HID on base model

Once someone figures out how to do the pre-cat delete and j-pipe 300+HP easily...

On to the topic at hand

That new TLX looks to be very slick and hopefully it drives as good as it looks. I hope it keep the SHAWD as it would really help with the heft of the vehicle.

+ 2 thumps for what I see so far...

 

Adding my 2 cents. I also have a 08 RDX and TL-S 6MT and I have to agree with YeuEmMaiMai. I would swap out the 2.3L turbo for the 3.5L. While the turbo has very good torque once you pass the initial lag (which considering it is a variable turbo, I wonder if it is SW tuning), it is no where as linear as the 3.5L on the new RDX (or TL-S for that matter) though the 1G RDX is much more fun to drive.

 

Just because Honda did their first turbo wrong doesn't mean the tech isn't where it's at.

Go drive a N54/N55 and report back. Lol

While the J is a solid motor, no doubt, it will soon be passed up for it's smaller, boosted, siblings.

 

Not to deviate too much but I did. Awesome engine (though not fair to compare a 3L 6 turbo to 2.3L turbo) in a very good performing car. If it didn't have fuel pump issues and my general concerns about reliability of German cars, I would have a 335i.

 

why would I? it still is not going to be as smooth as Honda's naturally aspirated offering...

you are going never have the same smoothness as you have to deal with the lag (even in variable vane tech) aka the dead spot at lower rpms

and no one here is saying that Honda's turbo is bad, it's not. It's just not up to the refinement of the J series.... I would prefer if they go forced induction that they use a blower.....at least you get smooth power delivery....

 

Hah, I wish I worked for Acura! Then all this random photoshop play would have a legitimate payoff. And you know what's funny? Acura will never acknowledge any of this, and will continue to on their stubborn path towards eternal Beak-ness despite what 99% of the people on here want. I'd like to be optimistic but when has Acura EVER listed to anyone on here, or their fanbase? Sucks, we should all spam them with the most-liked redesigns.

 

Corporate so called "geniuses" respond only to numbers. It would be great to get the masses to understand their power lies in choice. Cars like the Jaguar XF and Kia Optima definitely look better than anything Acura has, yet there are still people to buy Acuras and these people keep their jobs. And those of us with sense have to wait till the next generation. lol. I'm already thinking about what the mid-year refresh of the TLX could look like haha.

 

Obviously styling is subjective, but Acura delivered 165,000 cars to consumers (no fleet) and every one of them had a 'beak', so it's hard to say what 'most' consumers want.

 

Very optimistic. TOV dynoed the 310 advertised HP 2014 RLX 3.5 & it only did 258WHP & 233ftlbs. Other "300HP" engines are dynoing in the 275/280whp range.

 

I want the beak because I like my beak. Grant it mine is a 2012 and not the 09-11. But the beak has definitely aged well. I believe it was too aggressive for its time. The beak is not universally hated.

 

Even though sales have slumped, yes people are still buying Acuras because they are still good cars in every other way (They are Hondas after all.) except design. I bet if Kia would kill for Acura's brand perception, they would easily double their sales.

Usually when I say something unabashedly regarding the grille to a 4G or MDX owner they understand why I'm saying it and they don't disagree with me. They probably hear it all the time. (And probably sick of it by now, I know this topic has been flogged on AZine.) With some people looks aren't so high on their list, they like the car for the other reasons. A lot of different cars sell like that. Which I can understand. If you look at your car like an appliance or as an A-B object, looks are not a big deal. But to us enthusiasts it is art.

There are enthusiasts with 4Gs of course, I know, so don't kill me. I think most of them compromised or grew to like it a little. But I haven't really heard any of them say the grille is TRULY beautiful. Yes I have seen a couple 4G cars on this forum that really look nice modded out but it took A LOT of work to get there. Masking, covering the beak. It's like a girl trying hard with heavy makeup, there's only so much you can do. You still know what it looks like underneath. (haha don't kill me.)

I know I'm being biased here but the difference is whether a 3G owner is an enthusiast or not, it's nearly universal that they are totally in love with the sexy look of their car. You can mod it out or leave it alone. It's beautiful either way because you are starting out with a work of art. Just hoping the production TLX turns out the same.

 

Actually it's very easy to say what "most" consumers want: Mercedes (312,500 vehicles), BMW (309,000), and Lexus (274,000). In other words, something without a beak.

 

Ya although I personally hate it, I'm not saying it is universally hated, just that most people don't like it. I also thought it was "ahead of it's time" at first and I thought I could get used to it. Yea the updated one is toned down. Nope. Not my cup of tea.

But I will say this is the first I'm hearing a owner say they actually LIKE the beak. OK well that's a first. Not meaning to offend you, just putting my out there.

 

It will be interesting to see the Lexus numbers next quarter now that predator grill is across all its models and getting larger....

 

Trucks can get a pass on the beak because they are more massive looking & tend to soften it.

The model that took the big PR hit on the beak has been the TL since day one & it only sold 24K of those 165K units. The lowest sales numbers for a non-beak TL, 3G, was 47K its last year in production which exceeded any years 4G production by 13K cars or about 5 months 4G production.

 

This is true, but doesn't also account for the (arguably) lower value ratio for the 4G TL with it's 36K starting price (vs. $33K for 3G). In my opinion this car has never had a fair chance. Some of it is Acuras fault with the first iteration of the "beak" and some of it has been circumstances beyond our control.

IMO, it's hard to argue that Acura chose the wrong time to increase the price of the car because it is coincided with the global depression. This put a huge damper on initial TL sales beyond the reaction to the grill. Not many will remember that during this period, when the car was virtually brand new, they closed the production line for almost 6 months.

When it re-opened, it was time for the model year changeover. 2010 ended up eating a short production run because they rushed out the changes to the front end for 2011. Right when the 2011's started arriving in the dealership, the tsunami happened and this disrupted production in the latter half of that year. The last two years have fallen into the 'maybe I'll wait for the new one' mode.

In the end, the fourth-generation TL will be branded a failure for the brand based on the sales figures. It just seems to me as if there should be an asterisk next to these figures sometimes. There is more to the story than just the numbers and as many as 4G owners will say, it's a better car than most people give it credit for.

 

To be fair, we can't really blame the designers at Acura because we've only seen APPROVED designs. It's actually those high-up officials who approve or disapprove designs. Now, those shouldve been fired in 2009 (4G TL debut).

 

Riiight, and by the same token, you could also say that the beak propelled Acura ahead of 'non-beaked' brands such as Audi (158K), Infiniti (116K), Jaguar (16K), Land Rover (50K), Lincoln (81K), Volvo (61K).

 

You guys missed a very important question: Does it come with WeatherTech mats? LOL

 

Please note that Colliver is no longer in charge at Acura after 'retiring' in 2009.

 

then obviously something is underrated... no way that 300hp engine loses only 20-25hp in the driveline. that's like 8-10% Manuals aren't even that efficient....

275/300 = 8.4% driveline loss 280/300 = 6.3% driveline loss

258/310 = 16.8% driveline loss....more realistic

if it smells like crap, it is.

 

Was he in charge of Acura designs? I don't know much about him though.


Yeah I agree. Unless it's underrated from factory, there is no way a 300hp engine loses only that little power to the wheel. The stock 300HP G37 engine is right at 270HP on most dynoes.

 

Some news and more pics of the GT here: http://www.autoblog.com/2014/01/14/a...-detroit-2014/

 

Maybe they could co-opt this design and replace Harley with Acura. Then we could have all season mats with a beak too:


No, he was the Executive Vice President in charge of the Acura division from ~1999 to ~2009. Some want to blame the guy who approved the design, and he was the one who fell on the sword. Despite all his successes or the brand (arguably his years were the strongest ever for Acura).

 

I made a janky black photo chop of one. looks good. Someone needs to do a better job who has skills beyond mine.

 

then that should equate to about 337-350 at the crank (manual-auto) this is if you factor in a 20% loss or 325 at Honda's figure of 17% loss

 

I used to follow this series a lot, but it seems like the TV coverage kept getting worse and worse. I could never find the races on TV before I learned the results. Maybe they'll have a better TV partner this time around?

 

Well said

 

how do you think they'll price the new tlx?

 

I think there's going to be a huge price spread. Although I keep thinking of it as a TL replacement, it's also got to cover the TSX range as well. I think 32K to 45K usd.

 

I actually think a loaded SH-AWD will be $50K-ish and think the low end will start closer to $35K and would hope a 2.4 will work into the ILX so they can justify possibly pushing it up a little on top end. Would really be a wise move for Acura to release Type-S ILX and RLX.

 

AMEN my brother......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

All it means that way is the advertised horsepower is exactly that pure advertising with little relation to reality. Its a major league in this area for "sports sedans" what ever they are. 3L BMW is rated at 300HP generally runs at 275WHP on a Dynojet. My 335is N54 version stock is rated at 320HP generally runs at 319/321WHP on a dynojet.

My other one a 135is with an N55 engine is also rated at 320HP but runs around 295WHP on a dynojet.

Just some more random numbers G37 = 305whp & Genesis coupe = 280whp. M3 V8 414HP = 365WHP. The Mustang 414HP Coyote does about 394WHP. I have a Ford Racing Crate 420HP Coyote for the Cobra, will be interesting to see what it actually has.

Common thread is across the board the Earth Dreams 3.5 is not yet putting out much power compared to its contemporaries, actually the G-37 & Hyundai numbers are older versions I had in my file from 2009..

Regarding the average 15% loss you are looking for, you are trying to measure two things you can't measure because there is no relationship between them. The 15% average spread is the difference between horsepower measured on an engine dyno vs. horsepower measured on a chassis dyno. Has nothing to do with what is put in the magazine adds or car brochures

 

Count me as the second owner who likes the "beak". I have a '12 and I do prefer that to the '09-'11 but I absolutely love the front end of the '15 TLX. Call it a beak if you want. I personally don't see it as a beak. I think it's quite stunning!

 

It doesn't look too much like the '09 beak anymore....