^^^
Let me know what they tell you at the dealer,
I still have the grinding problem on 3rd, even pushing the clutch all the way IN, the gear won't engage.

 

Hmmm....

Ugh, I think my TL may be developing the same problem. Ever since having the car, I've always felt that when I shift into 3rd during acceleration, I don't feel the shifter is locked in all the way, like the shifter feels a little "mushy" when I shift into 3rd. Plus, when I shift from 3-4 during "spirited driving" sometimes I find shifting into 4th difficult, if not impossible (ie. trying to shift from 3rd-4th, the shifter feels locked out, so I have to shift from row the shifter from neutral to 3 to 4 again); I recall once I shifted into 2nd gear when I meant to go 3rd-4th.

I had a dealer tech test drive the car during for a day and they couldn't duplicate the problem.

Plus, just a few days ago, when I shift from 2nd-3rd, I saw the shifter "pop" out of 3rd into neutral.

 

I have the same problem with 3rd. I have taken my TL in twice to complain about it but the dealer says they can't replicate the problem. We all just need to keep complaining about it to Acura. The more complaints the better.

 

I went to the dealer in chicago, McGrath Acura of Westmont. They told me that they looked at the links and shift rod that connrect to the tranmission. they didn't find any issue. The guy told me that he didn't want to take the car apart since it as around 11k miles on it. He told me that he is going to put the note in the system. This is kind of stupid, I know this problem is hard to create, but since there are a lot of people out there who is having the problem. I am continue to have the same problem. Now, everytime I shift my card to 3rd gear, I'm very carefull and have to double check to see if it's in the 3rd gear or not. Should this be report to NHTSA? Should everyone who is having problem report to NHTSA and force acura to look at it. My next goal is to contact Acura and report this issue with them. I don't know if this is going to go anywhere. What you guys think about this?

 

^

Ack...

Now, in addition to something "mushy" in 3rd gear, I'm having a little problem shifting into reverse. Doesn't always happen, but when it does, it tend to occur early in the morning after the car is sitting in the garage overnight, and it occurs as such:

When I shift into reverse, I see the rear view camera; I let go of the clutch and gas in, and the car is running in neutral! I have to press the clutch, shift to neutral, and reshift to reverse. On one occurence, when I shifted into reverse, I heard the gear grind a little I always make sure I move the shifter fully into reverse...

Not sure if this is relevant or not, but when the car is off and parked, I likely to shift the gear into reverse and leave it in reverse gear so the car doesn't roll away. When the engine is off and I shift to R, reverse feels "mushy," kind of like I can't get shifter locked in gear. Reverse feels much different than when I shift into first, which feels nice and solid.

Anyone else having this problem? The dealer can't replicate this problem, and it doesn't occur frequently, but when it does occur, I know I'm not imagining things. Any ideas?

 

I don't know about reverse, but my problem is, so far, related to 3rd gear. sometimes, I don't even use the 3rd gear. I'm afraid that overtime, it splines will wear out on third and I will never be able to use it until I get it replaced, and outside of warranty, that would be a lot of money.

So, i wonder what are your thoughts everyone.
Since dealers are no help with this...
1. Report this problem to NHTSA?
2. Call Acura, their "800" number and talk to them?

Any thoughts on this?

 

Uggh. Sorry to hear about this. How many miles do you guys have on the cars?

Doc boy - do you think it could have anything to do with the electronic reverse lock-out, especially when you put it into reverse with the engine off?

 

9,500 miles thus far.

Good point, I didn't think about the electronic reverse lock-out; now that you mention it, it's a good point, but doesn't that feature have more to do with preventing one from shifting into reverse when the vehicle is in forward motion? I don't know....

More thoughts anyone?

 

Yeah, that's the function of that feature, but I wonder if in shifting into reverse without power to the electronic lock-out that it's somehow jiggering the linkage.

Thankfully no issues like that on mine, but I only have 4500 miles.

 

I have about 11k miles on it. I have tried to ship my car in reverse when engine is off and power is off and no problem. The electronic reverser lock-out is more for when car is moving forward at a certain speed and up. There is possibility of having this lock-out not functioning correctly.

But, for me, my problem is with 3rd gear.

 

There is a massive thread on the 3G forum about the "3rd gear issue". I've only had it happen to me (maybe 6 times) when in cold weather (below 50f), and the car has been sitting overnight, and I shift into 3rd in the first 10 min or so of my drive. Some people had it happen to them on every shift. Some people were less often.

WRT the Reverse issue. I had that happen to me one, what I do now (which makes the shift easier), is to shift into 1st or 2nd, then go into reverse, the shift are significantly easier into R.

edit: here is the link:
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/3rd-gear-tsb-637454/

 

[quote=docboy;12290506]^


When I shift into reverse, I see the rear view camera; I let go of the clutch and gas in, and the car is running in neutral! I have to press the clutch, shift to neutral, and reshift to reverse. On one occurence, when I shifted into reverse, I heard the gear grind a little I always make sure I move the shifter fully into reverse...

Not sure if this is relevant or not, but when the car is off and parked, I likely to shift the gear into reverse and leave it in reverse gear so the car doesn't roll away. When the engine is off and I shift to R, reverse feels "mushy," kind of like I can't get shifter locked in gear. Reverse feels much different than when I shift into first, which feels nice and solid.

Docboy, the first of your problems is almost certainly related to a poorly adjusted (or possibly slightly damaged) Bowden cable: these are the cables connecting your gear lever to the actual transmission, and, although this technology is tried and tested, it is possible for them to stretch a bit with use: if this is the case it is conceivable that the actual reverse is not fully engaged despite the shift lever being all the way back. As for your practice to engage reverse i don't see anything harmful provided that you do it after pulling the hand brake and while the engine is running by fully depressing the clutch, engaging reverse and then switching off the engine. If on the other hand you switch off the engine first and then try to engage reverse, the car may tend to roll forward a little (especially if you are parked on a slope) and reverse becomes harder to engage. Over time this could even lead to some stretching of the Bowden cables especially considering the tight space through which they pass (I saw it well when my transmission was replaced, I'm the one who started this thread back in January).

 

So, what your stating is that the connection from shift handle inside the car to transmission has cable wire instead of solide steel rode? My dealer told me that it has solide rod.

 

Dam. Something happened to 3rd gear, again. (this, of course, occurs a few minutes after I stalled at a red light)

During this morning commute, I shifted from 2nd-3rd (normal revs, around 2-3k rpms); as I let off the clutch with the transmission in 3rd gear and I press the gas, the car was in neutral! I definitely heard the engine race while I stepped on the accelerator a few times.

I shifted back to neutral and shifted to 3rd gear, and all was well again.

Any ideas? I'm fairly certain something is going on with 3rd and Reverse gears. I can't reproduce the problem consistently; what would the dealership be able to do aside from accusing me of being OCD

 

That's correct: the linkage between the shift lever and the transmission is provided by two Bowden cables, which are clearly visibile in the first of the photos I posted when I started this post: they are the two "things" in the bottom right of the picture that look like thick gray rubber boots ending with large round connectors. This kind of linkage still carries the stigma of some notoriously loose and slow gearboxes in GM cars of the early 80's. However, the technology has evolved a lot in the last thirty years and, when well executed, it can be as accurate, precise and quick as the best mechanical linkage. Manufacturers often prefer it when the engine and transmission are mounted transversally (sideways) because, unlike a longitudinal engine/transmission unit, the path from the shift lever to the transmission is not a direct one.

 

Docboy, this is consistent with my earlier suggestion that the cable linkage between your shift lever and the transmission has somehow either been damaged (for example because of a kink in the path) or has gotten out of spec. I believe the cables can be adjusted but I will verify on the service manual and let you know.

 

Definition of a Bowden cable from Wikipedia: "
A Bowden cable (pronounced /ˈboʊdən/ BOE-dən[1]) is a type of flexible cable used to transmit mechanical force or energy by the movement of an inner cable (most commonly of steel or stainless steel) relative to a hollow outer cable housing. The housing is generally of composite construction, consisting of a helical steel wire, often lined with plastic, and with a plastic outer sheath.
The linear movement of the inner cable is generally used to transmit a pulling force, although for very light applications over shorter distances (such as the remote shutter release cables on mechanical film cameras) a push may also be used. Usually provision is made for adjusting the cable tension using an inline hollow bolt (often called a "barrel adjuster"), which lengthens or shortens the cable housing relative to a fixed anchor point. Lengthening the housing (turning the barrel adjuster out) tightens the cable; shortening the housing (turning the barrel adjuster in) loosens the cable." see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowden_cable.

 

Thanks. Please let me know. I'll plan on calling the dealership after I get some more info from you.

 

Motorista, thank you for the info. As docboy stated, I will wait until Motorista provide the info about adjusting this cable. Once I have that infor, I will call the dealer back and give them my two cents. I cannot believe my dealer told me that it has metal link, not Bowden cable, connecting the shifter and transmission. This tells me that this dealer did not check my car or the service rep doesn't know what he is talking about.

 

Also, I did report this incident to NHTSA. See where this lead to. I don't know if dealers are putting information like this into Acura's systems for their tech engineers to look through and see if there is a major problem here.

 

I found an excellent picture of the cable system in the service manual, volume 1: i can scan it into a pdf but I would need someone on this forum to teach me how to post it as a picture. While there is no direct reference in the service manual about adjusting the cables, there is an interesting troubleshooting table a few pages earlier:

- For the case of "hard to shift into 3rd gear" it suggests changing the transmission fluid, or checking the cables (including at the gearshift housing end), or checking the the condition of the forks to which the cables are connected at the transmission end; This last option appears more related to the wear of the business end of the fork (there's both a spec limit and a service limit) and unlikely, imo, to be the cause of your problem, since you do not have a high mileage.

- For the case of "jumping out of 3rd" it suggests changing the fluid, or checking for a defective synchronizer, but not checking the cables. Again, if anyone can help with posting the pictures I'll be happy to do it.

At this point I have a very strong feeling that your problem is related to the cables, likely a kink along the way or a fault at the shift lever end: I'm sure the dealer can check and replace one or both cables if necessary, especially since the car is still under warranty. The reason I suspect the gear shift end and not the transmission end is because of the way the cables are terminated: at the transmission end they are both terminated in the same way, so I would assume a fault would apply to more than one gear, most likely to all. At the shift lever end, on the other hand, the push cable is terminated in one way, and the pull cable in another, and they are connected to different parts of the lever: a minor defect at this end (or a kink or defect in one of the cables), combined with the rather large travel of the lever going from 2nd into 3rd, could, in my view, cause an intermittent problem shifting into this gear that does not happen, for example, in the 1st-2nd or 3rd-4th shift. I plan to also run this theory by the service manager of my dealer, Acura of Boston, who is outstanding in both knowledge and availability.

 

Kiran, the dealers are indeed in close contact with district engineers who maintain an open communication channel with HQ: this is an area where Acura (and Honda) are very strong. In addition, Acura/Honda has a team of people whose specific job is to monitor the social networks, especially forums like this e-zine: I found them to be both alert to problems and very responsive. I'm pretty confident that with this kind of support from the manufacturer, as well as from us here, the dealer techs will be able to get at the bottom of your problem and Docboy's.

 

This sounds eerily familiar. Wasn't there a TSB for this on the '06???

 

I appreciate the info. It would be great if you are able to scan and post the pdf for viewing.

For online documentation's sake, a few days ago, I had the same reverse problem again; I shifted into reverse after starting the car, and the vehicle was running in neutral again.

Not sure whether this is a related issue or not: During this morning's commute, when I shifted from 2nd-3rd, I heard what sounded like a "clunk" sound. I can't be sure if I ran over a piece of rock, or if the sound came from the vehicle.

Again, the problems I have w/3rd and Reverse gears are not consistently reproducible, but my gut feeling tells me something is not right.

 

I think it is related: bearing in mind that reverse is opposite 6th and farther out, going from 1st to reverse is the farthest that the lever will travel, which will amplify cable travel problems. At this point I'm 90% certain that it's a cable problem. Good luck!

 

Okay, it's time to see the dealership. During the morning commute, during the shift from 2nd-3rd, the shifter popped out of 3rd into neutral and I found myself racing the engine at 2-3k rpms.

I made an appointment to see my local dealer tomorrow, and hopefully get a resolution (this, in addition to one of the spring/button on my rear head rest popping out).

I think a big problem will be that the gearing problems are not always replicable. If the tech cannot duplicate the problem, what would they be able to do?

Not exactly the quality I'm used to in an Acura and out of a $44k vehicle.

 

Have you noticed if the problem occurs mostly when the transmission is not warmed up? I had a lot of problems with my 06 Civic SI when the transmission wasn't warmed up, the dealership put in a new type of manual transmission fluid and it solved the problems that I was having. They also gave me a pamphlet on the troubles that can be caused by skipping gears when shifting, which I never do for fear of shifting into the wrong gear(i.e. 1st instead of 3rd)

 

Regarding transmission not warming up, it's possible. I noticed the shifting problems tend to occur during the morning, say 10-30 minutes after the car sits in the garage overnight. I can't recall if the shifting problems occur after the car sits outside and I drive home from the office.

 

Motorista, are you able to put up the pages off your repair manual? This would be regards to troubleshooting gear shifting problem. I would like to get that paper so I can take that to dealer and tell them what to do since my dealer told me wrong information regards to this car. I might just take it to another dealer in the area.

 

I would do two things:
1) Offer to leave the car in the shop and ask the service manager or shop foreman to use it for a couple of days (such as use it to drive to-from work). Of course, you need to feel you can trust the service manager or shop foreman: in my case I know them well and trust them both.
2) Ask that they disassemble the gear shift lever housing and inspect the cables where they connect to the lever, as well as inspect both cables for kinks or visible damage for their entire length. I would offer to pay for this procedure if it turns out to not be necessary.

I have done this before with delaers of many brands, and, in the end, it either resolved the problem or they figured out what else was wrong and covered it under warranty. I find that if the service department trusts me to pay reasonable costs for their troubleshooting they are much more comfortable doing what is needed to get at the bottom of the problem. At the end of the day, it's a matter of establishing a cordial relationship based on honesty, reasonableness and mutual respect between me (the customer) and the service department. Not unlike that between me (the patient) and my doctor, though a find that with the service department a lot easier to establish (perhaps because we both speak the same technical language)

 

Kiran, unfortunately I'm still waiting for some other folks on this forum to either tell me how or host them for me.

 

Update:

After bringing in the TL to the dealership mid morning, the service tech was unable to duplicate my 3rd gear/Reverse problems. They offered either to keep the car overnight (for the service tech to drive home and back to work) and retest again in the morning, or have me pick the car up. I elected to have them keep the car overnight.

But same result. The service tech was unable to duplicate the problem, just as I feared. They wanted to "keep this thing on hold for now." I asked about disassembling the housing and inspecting the cables/parts; service tech didn't want to do that yet "because they weren't able to duplicate the problem;" I believe they felt this would be too extreme.

So not sure what to do. I felt the dealership's service was respectful and that they were trying to figure out the problem, but no cigar. I can understand they need to experience the problem first hand, but if the problem occurs sporadically, what can I do aside from having a service tech with me every day in my driver's seat until the problem occurs

At this point, I'm stuck in an impasse. I may take the car in to a different dealership later. But if they can't replicate the problem as well, I'm going to live in fear of a botched transmission , which would probably mean I would trade the TL in before the warranty is up.

 

Sorry to hear about that. Something that I learned a while ago was that before shifting into R - you should shift into another gear first, same thing before shifting into 1, it is supposed to save the synchros. When I do shift into another gear first (like 2), I find that shifting into R is much easier than going direct.

The good news is that the powertrain warranty is 75k miles, so at least you have a long while before needing to worry about that.

For the time being (if you haven't already) would be to try what I mentioned above, and also try using 1st to park with instead of R.

The issue that I had posted last year have totally disappeared, (3rd gear popping out). I suspect that it was due to cold weather and the gears/trans oil not fully warmed up yet. I'm going to see if it happens again this winter and maybe take it in for the dealer to look at. The 3G guys are aware of that issue, and many of them put in the GM synchromesh transmission fluid and it completely fixed their issue. I won't be doing that unless I get the dealer to do it for me (to avoid warranty issues).

 

Dam. It happened again during this morning's commute.

3rd gear popped out while shifting, and the car was stuck in neutral when shifted to Reverse while backing out of the driveway.

I'm going to call the dealership again. WTH am I supposed to do, esp when this dam gear problems happen sporadically and hard to duplicate?!?

Does anyone know the long term effects this gear issue? I'm starting to think, esp with 3rd gear slipping out, it may be a safety issue, and cause unnecessary engine wear if I'm busy negotiating traffic, and I race the engine because the dam 3rd gear slipped; and also i.e. Accelerating on a highway on ramp in rush hour traffic and monstrous traffic up my arse).

Currently very annoyed at this $44k vehicle.

 

Wow that sucks, and sorry to hear this! My suggestion would be to take the car right to the dealership in the morning (but if you're not that close, my fear is the car will be too warm to duplicate when you get there) or talk them into keeping it overnight to test first thing in the morning...the issue seems to be far more pronounced during your morning commutes, so I am going to assume that it is an issue that has a higher chance of showing itself when all of the parts are cooler.

Good luck! And I'd be very annoyed as well.

 

Good Luck Docboy. I was one of those with the 3g problem. Felt like the shift to third was complete but when the clutch came out it was in nuetral, no grinding or great drama, it just wasn't in gear. I have had issues with American Iron manual gearboxes over the years and suspected that the transfluid was too viscous to let the gears spin and the dealer changed the fluid and it cleared up. I am waiting to take delivery of a 6MT in a few days so have been reading the forums with great interest. Let us know how it turns out.

 

From reading the 3G forums the solution seems to be using the GM Synchromech transmission fluid. That seems to fix all the problems with it. I'm pretty hesitant to swap the trans fluid, I don't want to give them an excuse to void the powertrain warranty. But if I have it happen to me in a couple months when it gets colder I'm definitely going to bring it in and leave it with them for a week.

 

Pete, I did point out the GM transmission fluid issue when my somewhat different problem surfaced last January. The service people were well aware of it but noted that it does not apply to our cars, as Honda is now using a very different transmission fluid. Given how sporadic the issue is, I tend to think it's more likely to be a mechanical problem, i.e. a defective synchronizer, or a cable issue.

 

Motorista, would you be able to send me this page off your repair manual? kc70782work@gmail.com. I would appreciate it.