Motorista

I just took delivery of a 2010 TL manual transmission last Saturday. I love the car and transmission but am having the following problem:

- When decelerating in first at slow speed it will often pop out of gear into neutral. This happens very often in first gear at slow speed, but also happened at least once in third gear as I released the gas because of traffic slowing ahead of me. It has never happened in 2nd or fourth.
- The circumstances: the problem happens as I release the gas in first at slow speed and let the engine slow the car a bit. Typically it happens when I park, but it also happened in stop and go traffic a couple of times. I park in a large public garage at both ends (home and work): to reach the "monthlies" floor I have to drive down a long level drive with a speed limit of 10mph, then release the gas at the end to go around a bend after which there's a ramp up to my floor. Typically there are cars in front of me and we all drive slowly and evenly down, release the gas at the bend, then accelerate again gently to go up. The gear will pop out as I release the gas. In traffic this has happened under similar circumstances: city traffic slowing down enough to force you off the gas but not enough to apply the brakes or come to a stop.
- Other useful info: the car is brand new, with 103 miles as of today. I am a very experienced driver, got my license in 1971 and been on stick shift almost continously since. Currently 3 of our 4 cars are stick shift: on my 1991 legend coupe the clutch is fine at 107kmiles. I'm typically a very smooth driver.

I have an appointment with the dealer tomorrow, but was just wondering if anyone has had this problem. I experienced this only once many, many years ago on a new Subaru: the ultimate diagnosis was a defective synchronizer for 2nd and they ended up replacing the entire transmission. I really hope this will not be necessary for the TL!

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

Uh oh...

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

The 3G TL 6MT has this known issue. Acura has a TSB out on it, for 3rd gear. But, I along with many others have used this, and it has a 100% success rate:

Motorista

Thank you for the quick reply. Can you direct me to the URL for the 3g TSB?

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

Look at posts #8-9 here:

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/3rd-gear-tsb-637454/

docboy

When you say the gear "pops out of gear into neutral," do you mean you can actually feel the transmission slip from 1st into neutral, or.... does the the actual stick shift move from 1st into neutral? Or both? Just so I understand and know what to watch for.

Motorista

I mean both: the gear shift lever pops out of first and into neutral and the transmission is definitely in neutral.

ESHBG

That is exactly what I was going to say the problem may be! Not good at all, and I am sorry to hear that you are having this issue. Good luck, and keep us posted!

Motorista

Thank you - I went back to the dealer today and went out an a test drive with their service manager during which we were able to reproduce the problem twice. The manager had already checked with Acura Tech who recommended the following approach;
- No reported problem with this generation of TL: mine is the first (not surprising given that sales of the stick shift only started in October, still I hate to be the first ).
- No issue with the fluid, all new TLs are equipped with the new fluid from the factory.
- They recommended checking and if necessary adjusting the ball/spring assemblies for each gear and especially for first. The assumption here is that if the spring pressure (which is adjustable) is too low the slight motion of the entire engine/transmission assembly as the engine goes from pulling to braking might be enough to cause the gear to pop out of the detent. The check and adjustment can be done without dropping the transmission, since every detent is accessible from the outside and protected by a bolt. Sorry if this sounds a little vague, but I have not yet seen the actual mechanism: I have the full service manual set on order but have not received it yet, when I do I'll try to post a picture of the transmission and detents.
- They also recommended checking the cables connecting the shift lever to the transmission, in case one or more are routed incorrectly.

If all this fails to solve the problem, surgery is the only option: I'm still hoping that it will not come to that. I left the car there and am keeping my fingers crossed.

By the way, I really must commend the service department of the dealer, Acura of Boston: I received an outstanding treatment, with the personal intervention of the service manager and the director of service. I was very impressed by their expertise and customer orientation, all the way down to the courtesy car they gave me, a 2009 RL. I bought my first Acura at this dealership in October 1987 (less than a year after the brand's introduction in the US) and have gone back ever since (the TL is my fourth, and joins a 1991 Legend Coupe in the fleet), and would recommend it to anyone!

All for now, more soon.

Kingmeow

Hey I didn't know you took it to Acura of Boston. I took mine there for a pulsing noise problem (another thread) last month. Their service department is top notch. Did you take the drive with Domenic, the head mechanic? Very knowledgeable guy. Who was your Service Advisor? Mine was Jonathan and he is OUTSTANDING.

They also gave me an RL last month when I dropped my TL off. That car is sweeeet! Only had 14k miles on it. I wonder if it's the same one, black interior.

BTW, how much is the service manual set?

HiroY

Motorista: So sorry to hear about the problem! Being a new 6MT owner myself, I'll definitely keep an eye out for this on mine...gives me flashbacks to my old S2000, which would occasionally pop out of gear (a known issue with that model).

Thanks for the recos for Acura Boston: I guess I know where to take my car if I ever need service!

I hope they get it fixed via non-surgical methods - Keeping my fingers crossed for you!

Pete2010

+1 on the A of B service. I've gotten my 3 Acura's there over the years and the service has always been top notch...

Motorista

Yes, I went out with Domenic, whom I had not met before: I was very impressed, he's knowledgeable and methodical. The loaner is the same car: 2009 RL, grey with black interior. Interestingly, I just traded in our 06 RL, which was broadsided by another car running a red light, repairable but we decided to get the TL instead. So, I'm now driving the 09 RL and am noticing differences, for the most part improvements, on our 06: I'll post an assessment on the TL forum tonight.
Regarding the cost of the service manuals, I'm not sure, as I always negotiate them into the cost of the new car: I have a collection dating back to 1991 (my Legend coupe), as well as several for Subarus and Volkswagens. Over the years I have discovered that the cost to the consumer is quite high (could be as much as $800-1,000 for certain brands) for the first 4-5 years of the model, while the cost to the dealer is much less, hence better include them in the negotiation up front. After year 5 typically all brands drop the cost dramatically. My theory is that in the first few years they keep it high to discourage independent mechanics and drive business to the dealer; after that, most customers bring it to independent mechanics anyway, so the manufacturer is better off circulating knowledge and keeping the customer happy. But this is just my theory.

Motorista

Thank you for the good vibes, Hiroy: hopefully it will get resolved soon, as I really like the car a lot and look forward to getting it back. Performance is excellent and rather firm suspension and quick steering remind me a bit of a Subaru Impreza WRX I used to own, only much more refined and with usable torque.

StuartMMVITL

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like your being treated quite well by the service department. Here's hoping they can manage to fix the issue without a major tear down.

I just ordered my set last month (2 separate volumes & covers both "09 & '10 model years) through Helm, and they run $195. It's not cheap, but I think it's a good investment if you want to have detailed service info available for your car. I think I'll end up saving the cost of the manual, just by being able to do the work/troubleshooting myself.

Six Shifter

Hopefully this is nothing more than an isolated incident. Just crossed 8400 miles about an hour ago (incidentally, my 1st warning for the A1 maintenance came on at 8399) after 13 1/2 weeks of ownership and haven't experienced this. Something to keep an eye out for.

Kingmeow

Motorista, funny that it's the same RL loaner. If you remember, see if you get a call from Acura Corporate on how well your service went. The few times I got a loaner from A of B it was always a TSX. Then the only time I got the RL as the loaner, Acura Corporate calls with a survey (yesterday)! I just wonder if they knew a survey was coming...LOL!

Now I can PM you if I need info from the service manual! LOL!!! I can probably meet up with you when it's warmer in Boston. Maybe you can show me around as after 6 months working there I'm still lost!

NOX 3.2

My 2004 TL 6MT 1st gear used to pop out when slowing down very fast (by letting go the accelerator at higher speeds) I always thought it was a way to avoid stalling the car on 1st. My new 2010 TL 6MT SH-AWD Tech hasn't done it but once in 4 months, I think if you slow down gradually using the brakes instead of the gears it will not do it. Don't put unnecessary wear and tear on your tranny Remember brake pads are a lot cheaper than the gearbox!

Motorista

Now I can PM you if I need info from the service manual!
Definitely, always happy to help and learn.

LOL!!! I can probably meet up with you when it's warmer in Boston. Maybe you can show me around as after 6 months working there I'm still lost![/quote]

Ditto, perhaps a mini-gtg for forum members driving 4g stick shifts in our area. By the way, looks like several of us chose Mayan Bronze: I very much like it, it's an unusual color.

Motorista

Good advice, but unfortunately not applicable in my case: the problem occurs quite often while driving smoothly at reasonably low speeds, such as down a long lane in an underground garage. It's definitely a mechanical problem, see my next post.

Motorista

Acura Tech just recommended checking the rear transmission mounting bracket: if this component gets slightly bent during assembly (there's apparently one reported case) it can interfere with the shift lever cables which are routed nearby. If the plate appears bent, they suggested putting the car in first, disconnecting the cables and driving it a short distance to see if the problem happens again. If this does not fix it, the transmission will be replaced. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
In the meantime, the good people at Acura of Boston went ahead and ordered a new transmission, which arrived today.
More soon

Kingmeow

Wow! A of B is dropping a new tranny in yours (if needed)? Great service!

NOX 3.2

Sounds like they provide very good support !

please let us know what happen.

Motorista

Today I got my car back with a new transmission: it's working very smoothly with no popping-out-of-gear problems. It's wonderful to have the car back and start getting acquainted with just how good a car it is, not to mention getting to know its many features (I had only had it for two days before the repair). The decision to replace the transmission was made after the Acura engineer, together with Domenic of Acura of Boston, test-drove the car in first gear with the shift cables disconnected, as recommended by Honda, and was able to replicate the problem right away: this pointed conclusively at a mechanical problem with the transmission, rather than something related to the linkages. By the way, although the car is assembled in Marysville, OH, the manual transmission comes straight from Japan: I suppose the sales numbers for the stick shift are too small to justify assembling the transmission in the US. It is a remarkably compact and light-weight unit, beautifully machined and quite impressive.

The Acura of Boston team was extraordinary: Service Director Dave Carlson kept me informed every step of the way, and let me come in at the mid-point of the "surgery", and take several pictures with the old transmission out and the new one still in the crate: if anyone can teach me how to post pictures in this thread I'll be happy to do so. They also extensively road-tested the car to make sure everything was resolved, and had it cleaned and detailed before delivering it back to me. Even in this modern age of automation, mechanical defects can still happen, but it is this kind of outstanding service that makes you come back to the brand and the dealer time and time again (four times over 23 years in my case). So, I'm now a very happy camper

StuartMMVITL

iTrader: (1)

Excellent news!

Now you can finally get to enjoy how awesome this car really is.

HiroY

Phew! I'm glad you're through it and all turned out OK!

Regarding how to post pictures, you have to host the pictures somewhere else (like flickr or shutterfly or one of the other many photo sharing sites available)...then, once the photos are online and displayed on their webpage, copy the link/URL/address to that photo (typically can right click on the photo and copy the photo's address). Then, in your thread response editor here, click the 'insert image' icon (looks like a postcard of mountains) and paste the copied address into the dialog box that pops up. That should do it! Hope that works and hope to see your pictures!

xrays

Glad to hear all is well and that Acura of Boston did a good job!

erick3

wow! that's some impressive service for ya, good sir! happy that all worked out well for you.

they detailed your car too?! wwooowww! haha

prepreludesh

Motorista and I worked out a solution to getting his pictures from his transmission work done. So I hope you all enjoy his pictures!

Kingmeow

Awesome pics!

Motorista

Well, it's now approximately a month since the transmissioon was replaced and all is well. The new transmission is operating perfectly, no popping out of gear any more, and the car's performance is phenomenal. Kudos to the good people at Acura of Boston for a perfect repair. I'm a very happy camper now.

NOX 3.2

wow, the tranny looks so compact and high-tech!
I remember the old Chevy-Ford transmissions that were very long like a funnel (for rear whell drive).
I'm glad your car was assembled again back to brand new!

I don't know how mechanics remember how to put all the 1000's of parts back where they belong! they are very good at what they do!

enjoy your 6-speed ! it's a nice man's toy....

I love Acuras, this is my 6's TL, and I can't get tired of them... hope the price doesn't keep climbing up every year, so we can all continue to afford them!

turbokingz

Been following this post and have also read the TSB for the 2007-2008 TL. I picked up a 2010 TL SH-AWD 6MT back in Nov 09 and have put approximately 7k miles on the car so far. I wanted to ignore that my car was having this issue but it is. My question is, the newest model covered by the TSB is 08, so are we screwed? The biggest problem is going to be trying to replicate the problem within the 15 minute drive with the dealer. This sucks.

R

Motorista

Turbokingz, as you can see from my postings (i started this thread) Acura behaved impeccably in my case: the transmission was replaced promptly and the car has been performing impeccably ever since. While the TSB refers to the previous generation, my problem is duly documented in Honda's database, so if you are having the same problem I'm sure that your dealer will be able to help. While this is obviously not as common a problem as with G3, there is at least one clearly documented case (mine), so you can direct the dealer to this thread. Good luck and please keep us posted on your progress.

Pete2010

Is this the same problem as Motorista had? Where it pops out when decelerating? Or does it happen like the 3G's had? I had this happen to me a few times, figured it was just a lazy left foot. But I've noticed it happens typically within the 1st 10 min the car is running. I've had both things happen like the 3G, either it pops out of 3rd, or it's difficult to complete the shift.

I haven't had a chance yet to take my car in yet for them to check it out. I think Motorista took his to Acura of Boston, so I'll probably go to them, since they'll have some experience with this. They'll probably have to keep my car overnight to try and replicate.

turbokingz

I took my car to the dealer today here in Northern VA (Pohanka Acura). As I expected, the service manager could not duplicate the problem and would like to keep my car to do another drive in the a.m. to see if the problem will occur again. At least they gaveme another TL to drive as a loaner. The car does exactly what Motorista described, pops out of 3rd and is "notchy" or hard to complete the shift into 3rd. I'm certainly going to reference Motorista's case, because I'm sure it is well-documented. Unfortunately, the dealer is already behaving as if they won't begin any repairs until the problem can be verified. He explained to me that if they make repairs, they send the defective part back to Acura mothership. If the part does not look to be defective, then the dealer gets charged for that repair. Sounds like hogwash to me. Wish me luck guys, this might be a long summer.....

NOX 3.2

yes, 3rd is the only gear I have trouble with, if I don't push the clutch all the way in, it grinds and it's hard to complete the shift.
all other gears are very smooth... I wonder if there is going to be a Service Bulletin on it someday.

Pete2010

If you don't push the clutch in all the way? That would make sense it would grind in the situation.

But yea, read in the 3G section, this is pretty much the EXACT same problem the 3G's had.

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=637454
and
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-problems-fixes-114/tl-manual-transmission-3rd-gear-585421/

Pete2010

Also, it's worth noting that Motorista had a VERY different problem if you read his description.

kiranc1282

I have same problem as Nox 3.2. My clutch is pushed all the way in, I try to get the car into the 3rd gear and it will not go, then I just jump to 4th or go back to 2nd and skip third after getting enough speed. sometimes, it feels like I have pushed the shifter into the 3rd, but when I release the clutch, it start making the grinding noise and pushes the lever back to nuetral. I was thinking aobut this today and wanted to see if others are having this problem. It looks like there are more people with this problem. I'm taking my car in tomorrow, but my concern is that this problem doesn't happen all the time, if dealer doesn't find it in their 10 mint test, they won't do anything about it. I will tell them to look into the case with Acura of Boston. But, like somone in the post said, it didn't matter. Wish me luck, I'm crossing my fingers and going to visit the dealer.