Someone closed my thread a while back, I don't know why.
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172328

I tried posting this in car talk with no response.

I am shocked at how little response I have gotten from this site in regards to the TL's 3rd gear issue...

Regardless, Honda released a TSB for the 6 Speed 3rd gear set replacement with new part numbers.

http://www.automotivearticles.com/123/article_258.shtml

The TSB is there.

You can see the article being referenced on consumerist and Fox News.
http://consumerist.com/368037/honda...y-transmissions

I have not been able to confirm if there is an Acura TSB out for the TL and RSX owners or not. But given the feedback from RSX owners I am trying to gather more information.

The issue with 3rd gear is mechanical, and despite how great the syncromesh feels our tests with Si's and Accord showed the issue coming back after 20k on the fluid.

So the questions are:


3RD Gear Explanation:

1. Does your 3rd gear issue mirror that of the original topic linked above? (If not what is different)
2. If the car was new when did the 3rd gear issue start?

3RD Gear Solutions:

1. Have you updated to the revised Acura MTF? (Did it change anything)
2. Have you brought your car into an Acura Dealer for inspection (What was the outcome?)
3. Have you had the 3rd gear set replaced and if so did it resolve the issue?
4. Did you try or switch to MTF like GM/Penzoil Syncromesh FM or Non FM? What was the result?

 

Hmmm, looks like we need one of our detectives to start snooping the acura server. Interesting that the article only covers Honda MT's and makes no mention of Acuras. GMSMFM fixed mine, but If I can screw them outta a new gear set then I will.

 

I had much more participation from the Honda camp than Acura owners. It seemed many Acura onwers were just as happy to swap in different trans fluid and call it a day.

The Honda owners wanted a mechanical fix and got it.
I did mention the Acura TL in the article just had no volunteers for our testing.

 

I think it's just a matter of whats easier, pulling the tooth or filling the cavity. for 50bucks of fluid and a little time no fuss no muss. After 2 trips to the dealer I had enough i've surprisingly got better things to do with my time.

 

This is just to fill space.

 

http://www.automotivearticles.com/123/article_258.shtml

Go get your cars fixed. TSB released.

 

Do you have a link for the Acura TSB, I did not see it on that site. And I bet this does not apply to canada.

 

TSB 08-018

I do not have the PDF however give them the TSB number they can look it up in about 10 seconds with that.

You can even call a dealer and see if they have record of that TSB number.
Let them know you have a car affected and want to bring it in to have the service done.

 

here is the link
http://www.in.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SB/b08-018.pdf

 

Thanks for the link!

 

hopefully using synchromesh FM and getting the updated 3rd gear set will solve all the problems.. and probably make the shifter buttery again!

 

interesting. to be honest, with the GM fluid I havent even come close to having this issue.

Not sure if I want some Acura tech tearing into my tranny. but I will talk to my service advisor none the less

 

[

So the questions are:


3RD Gear Explanation:

1. Does your 3rd gear issue mirror that of the original topic linked above? (If not what is different)
2. If the car was new when did the 3rd gear issue start?

3RD Gear Solutions:

1. Have you updated to the revised Acura MTF? (Did it change anything)
2. Have you brought your car into an Acura Dealer for inspection (What was the outcome?)
3. Have you had the 3rd gear set replaced and if so did it resolve the issue?
4. Did you try or switch to MTF like GM/Penzoil Syncromesh FM or Non FM? What was the result?[/QUOTE]

I had the usual 3rd gear issue at 11000 miles on a new '06.
Acura replaced the 3rd gear synchros and put in the new fluid.
After the replacement, I had the problem in both 3rd and 4th gear.
I showed the dealer the results from this site, and after consulting the area rep, they put the GM fluid in.
No problems since. It's an old story told many times here.

 

I am realllllllly hesitant about letting repair techs rip into my tranny to replace one gear set. Does any one else feel this way?

On another note, Its nice Acura finally acknowledged their f up

 

It does not happen anymore with the GMSFM so they'll never be able to replicate. I would have to dump the new stuff and put in honda junk just to get diagnosis. As much as I would like a mechanical fix, I'm holding off till after the threads start poping up saying Acura tech fux0red my tranny.

 

It is normal to have that fear, esp since these transmissions require precision and care, otherwise the other gears will be messed up, then you won't be able to get it in 4th gear or second or something of the nature.

 

I would get it fixed, the fluid is just a cover up.

 

You got that right.

Since I have never had the problem, either with the factory fill or the GMSFM fluid, I will not be taking my car into some dealer to have things messed up. It has never been back to any dealer for any reason since the day I drove it off of the lot. Not about to start now taking it in.

For me, this is a complete non-issue with my '04 manual TL.

 

I'm a little hesitant about them ripping my transmission apart, but these guys are supposedly trained and should be able to put it back correctly. And if it fixes it for good, then that will be one less headache.

 

My 3rd gear does not pop out but is hard sometimes when cold. I'm more reluctant to try the GM-FM MTF than have a general Acura tech take apart the gearbox and replace the synchro and gears. Disappointed with Acura/Honda that it took them this this long to acknowledge the 6MT problem since the basic design goes back to 2002. After the 4At and 5AT problems you would have though they learned their gearbox lesson.

 

has anyone had problems with reverse yet? Ive been having 2 intermittent probs when its really cold theres a grind shifting into reverse and when its warm or been running for a while theres a hard drop and stutter in the gear when the clutch engages. do you guys think it can occur because of the 3rd gear issue?

 

You have any idea how many people are running this fluid. Im not just talking Acura's either..

I dont think this fluid is hurting my car in anyway.

 

trance I think the fluid is a cover up too...... i used the gm synchro last year for about 30k and i still had kick back in 3rd...slightly less at cold start but it was still there.....then when the "revamped" honda stuff came out i got that and its the same....im dropping mine off this week to get the tsb done... im not worried one bit....Ill probably be the guinea pig lol.

 

Im sorry bro but I find it so hard to believe that you have the "friction modified" fluid and you still had the issue. I guess its always a possiblity. I havent had mine in for 30K. I had it bad, I mean real bad. Sometimes it wouldnt even go into 3rd at all. But with the friction modified fluid in, I dont feel a thing and never have since day one. Not even a hint. When I bought my bottles the guy behind the counter told me that BMW buys a case a week from them. So if this is a cover up then there are a lot of people covering issues up.

I understand where you are coming from though. Now that theres a fix Honda is finally coming to grips with this issue. Let us know. Im really interested to see how this works out.

 

Even if they do admit to a 3rd gear issue, anything short of replacing the transmission would be suicidal.

There have been a few threads recently where gears and syncro's were replaced/serviced and I didn't see anyone who came out of it better than they went in.

As far as Trips experience, he's the first I've seen that said it didn't work. Always a possiblility since it won't fix something that is too far gone. I changed mine at 6K and it's been good so far.

 

The syncromesh is a far superior lubricant than the Honda MTF.
It is so good that it smooths out many transmission problems not in just Hondas.. But in the case of the Hondas it is and always has been a problem with the syncro design. So regardless of how good the transmission fluid is at masking the problem you will always have a flaky synchro on that gear.

The test group I had used on the Accord and Si with the same issues as the TL had complaints of rough shifting at 15-20k on the GM fluid. While changing out the fluid every 10-15k miles is something the S2000 crowd accepts, on these other models its not acceptable IMO.

I will be the first to admit, a trans tear down is the last thing you want to go through. But, in the long term having the properly designed parts in the trans is better than running on a defective gear set on band aid trans fluid.

 

I understand what you guys are saying but ive had so many probs with this car i dont even wanna take a risk of not getting this done.
the first time i did it...it worked.....then i had a clutch replaced and dude replaced the synchromesh with honda mtf and when the car came out and was ready for me... i drained hondas fluid the same day and put synchromesh back in and it started kicking out about 6k miles later. Since then ive been messing around with diff ways of draining and replacing fluids in the tranny a variety of ways and still nothing.

 

This highlights a good point, that the manufacturing defect may be worse in some vehicles. This was the case heavily in the Si.

Some owners just claimed 3rd gear was tough to engage sometimes but never popped back. While others always had issues even engaging 3rd gear.

Bottom line the syncromesh will help but is not the best long term solution.

 

I wouldnt say that dezoris. We have many many members that have made this go away with the "Friction Modified" fluid for many miles. I believe that tripn may have just used teh syncromesh. there is a difference. I have no idea why they would replace the clutch. My dealer did about 5 fluid changes. Then said they wanted to replace syncros and if that didnt work they wouldve replaced the tranny. Like I said mine was bad. When people say popping out are you in third and its engaged?? Because Ive had it pop out on me and its only because it only engaged the first syncro. You can literally feel it.

Dont get me wrong here, Im not trying to down play this TSB at all. Im happy that Honda is doing something. But I just find it hard to swallow that this fluid is what you call a bandaid for it. I believe that this fluid is good and its exactly what this tranny needed. I cant see this hurting my car in anway.

I still would like to see how you come out of this. Ive already contacted my dealer....

I emailed the head mechanic I know. Just waiting for a response...

 

This single issue is perhaps the most posted about issue for MT owners. I'm shocked that you are shocked ! Maybe everything to be said has been said.

20k Miles or Kilometers ? If after 20kMi I guess I could care less. I've always changed any MTF at 15K-20k mi intervals anyway. Cheap and easy.

Depends on how you define "best". From a purist's POV a true mechanical fix is "best". But, if best means effective, economical and least invasive method then using an MTF that reduces or eliminates the situation is "best".

3RD Gear Explanation:

1. Does your 3rd gear issue mirror that of the original topic linked above? (If not what is different)
My experience was typically tough/phantom engagement, not pop-out
2. If the car was new when did the 3rd gear issue start?
About 3 K mi

3RD Gear Solutions:

1. Have you updated to the revised Acura MTF? (Did it change anything)
Yes. Actually made it worse
2. Have you brought your car into an Acura Dealer for inspection (What was the outcome?)
My dealer admitted they sell pretty much nil MTs and backed off of even attemting to help
3. Have you had the 3rd gear set replaced and if so did it resolve the issue?
No frikin way! Just about anyone that did ended up with a worse problem. If lots of others start seeing success with some new desgn parts then maybe, just maybe.
4. Did you try or switch to MTF like GM/Penzoil Syncromesh FM or Non FM? What was the result?
GM SMFM about 12Kmi ago. Not a single problem since. None, zippo, nada. The fuckin' anti-problem....OK. Sorry, I realize it doesn't work for everyone that's tried but I just don't get the resistance to trying it before you get your MT torn down.

dezoris - Sorry, haven't participated in a good old MT thread in a while. Guess I was pent up. Please believe it's nothing personal, really.

 

from the TSB....thats the statement thats going to screw us on the test drive

 

I agree with post by "trancemission".

There appears to be a deliberate ambiguity in the TSB statement:

NOTE: It is not uncommon for there to be some
resistance or notchiness when shifting into third gear

This may allow Acura dealerships to ignore the problem by classifying 3rd gear
malperformance as "within normal specs".

What is missing from the statement, and may leave an open door for owners, is the fact that the quoted statement does not say whether it describes a problem to be fixed, or "normal" operation. In fact, "... Not Uncommon ..." is not the same as saying "it is normal operation"... to experience hard shifting and notchiness.

Just some background info on my car:

I have an '05 TL, 6MT, with about 26000 miles on the car.

At about 3 to 4k miles I started to experience 3rd gear problems.

Most notable were significant resistance, and progressive "notchiness" when shifting into 3rd gear.
By 2nd year of ownership situation deteriorated to a point where I decided to replace the transmission fluid with Honda's NEW transmission fluid.

The fluid replacement improved 3rd gear "shifting" somewhat, but did not eliminate the problem. Normally, when driving, I don't think about shifting, but I noted that I started to drive with acute awareness of what I am doing, when shifting into 3rd.
A "compensatory" adaptation for what appear to be a manufacturing or design defect in synchromesh assembly (?).

As a result of that "defense mechanism" I can almost anticipate when problem shift may occur, and at least partially, compensate for it (not letting off the clutch before making double sure gear is engaged, than *partially* rev match). The problem is intermittent, but more and more prevalent, and often complicated by ambient or transmission fluid temperature.

Like many others on this board I was reluctant to take the car to the delarship for "testing", unless there was a reasonable chance of having the problem diagnosed in an unbiased manner and fixed correctly; I was waiting for definitive TSB or recall.

However, what is Acura actually offering: new redesigned parts (?), a de facto admission that OEM gears were defective (?).
Would Acura corporate extend warranties to those of us experiencing the "... not uncommon ..." problems, as described in TSB, if in fact they do feel "resistance to shift and notchiness" are normal? Note again: they are not admitting it is normal, nor are they saying it is a problem.

A rough translation may be: "make it as difficult as possible for the owners to achieve repairs, we (Acura corporate) leave it in your (dealership's) hands what you want to do; a rate of attrition will reduce costs."

Hopefully, my pessimistic outlook will be unfounded.

05 TL, 5MT, all maintenance performed by myself, no major complaints, other than 3rd gear problem.

 

^ I was too lazy to read that, but when I complained i'm pretty sure they just added more fluid because when I drained it, more than 2.3L came out, it was close to 2.7L.

 

Quarts, not litres if you're talking "2.3" on a drain and refill.

 

It would be interesting to know the percentage of people with 3G manual TL's who have experienced any of these problems.

 

u know whats great?..... I havent driven the car in about a week....i decide last night to take the car out n give it some exercise.....as im taking an off ramp on the highway at about 40mph 3rd popped out as i was in the middle of the turn...my hand wasnt even on the shift knob.... i thought i was seeing things!

 

dude that sounds bad, take that shit in.

if that ever happens to me Im going to turn around and go straight to the dealer.

 

Yes, Syncromesh. Much smoother shifts, no problems since.

 

i just set up an appointment for a drain-n-fill. Exlpained that the shifting has been a little notchy as of late and the Service manager said he would us the GM stuff....at a charge of $70 bucks. Are they supposed to charge for this if there is a TSB or not. Not that i mind paying (well...maybe a little), but don't want to if i shouldn't be.

 

The manual states 2.2L on drain and refill, when I drained mine more than 2.2L came out closer to 2.6 or 7.