Colin

Wow, I wonder if you're the one who 'discovered' the airbag issue? About 1800 ZDXs will be inspected but is suspected that about 30 did not get the proper laser etching on the passenger side dashboard to perforate the airbag cover.

winstrolvtec

^You may be on to something because according to Acura, there were no reported incidents. They just, as you put it "discovered" this and put out a recall to find which ones they are.

TLNV

not to hijack the thread, but, for ours they replaced the entire drivers side curtains front to rear. had everything ripped out in order to do so which of course sucked big time because as you all know once your start tearing an interior apart the opportunity for future rattles etc start popping their little heads.

I do know that yesterday when it was dropped off they were going to see if mine was one of the ones affected. Ours was the 425th built so will see.

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

It's a $4 relay. And what I meant is that there are multiple of this relay in the car all over controlling different items. There could be one in the engine bay, one in the dash, one in trunk, etc. I own a ton of Acura service manuals from HELMs dating back to 1995 Integra. The sequence given for troubleshooting in these manuals reads something like:
-test part A
-if part A fails does not meet requirement X, test part B
-if part B fails, replace part B
-retest part A
-if part A meets requirement X, complete work

This isn't uncommon, and this is also very simplified, but the manuals are very thorough that if followed troubleshoot the entire path in order to find the exact part that failed.

graphicguy

CleanCL....If this isn't "uncommon", then Acura has a much larger issue on their hand than just my problems.

I have no issue with you siding with Acura on this issue. Do you work for a dealership?

Considering your extensive transmission failures, and your acceptance of their "fixes" for it, perhaps you have a much higher tollerance for their mishaps than I do. I expect more, and I expect better from them.

Quick update, I did get a call from ACS. I guess my letter did hit the VP's desk. My phone call to him went unanswered, too. And, he pushed it back down to ACS.

My case worker's name is Jonathan "something". For all intents and purposes, this guy, or at least his position within the company, is utterly worthless. He just repeats himself....no refund for the tow is coming. And, further, he's closing my "case", over and above me telling him several times that my issues have not been resolved.

He did say that the issue is solely at the dealership's discretion on what to do. This is the total opposite of what the GM at the dealership said....that the issue is Acura's alone.

Now I'm caught in a finger pointing war as to who has the responsibility and the aurhority.

If Acura is looking to cut staff, put this guy's position at the very tip-top of the list.

Next step, contact the dealership owner, again, for no other reason to see if he knows what's going on.

Past that, looks like I'm headed for a legal remedy.

White92

This reminds me in a way of the lady who testified before the senate hearings that she feared her Toyota was a death trap and got rid of it before something may or may not happen. They asked her what she did with her car. She said she sold it. They asked if she told the buyer her fears. She did not. Do you plan on telling a potential buyer exactly why you are selling?

If you think the car is not fixed and unsafe to drive, I would take it back to the dealership until you feel it is safe and fixed. When you go pick it up once it's fixed and you feel it's not, take it right back.

I know it sucks that it happened right after you bought it, but things happen. They happen alot less with some manufacturers than others, but that's why they have a warranty. Is it any worse that a fuel pump went out at 900 miles versus 45,000 miles? It happens. It could happen with any car maker.

My 2 cents.

White92

I believe you are in Indiana. I got this from the AG's site. Looks like you need to drop it off 4 times without you feeling it is repaired correctly. You would also need to submit the proper paperwork to the proper people. The people at the dealership obviously aren't going to help. I'd bark up a different tree.

VEHICLES COVERED BY THE LEMON LAW

Did you buy or lease for personal use:
•A car or light truck?
•Within the last 18 months?
•With less than 18,000 miles?
•From an Indiana dealer?
If you answered yes to these questions, your vehicle may be covered by the Lemon Law.

WHAT TO DO IF YOU BUY A LEMON
1.Report the problem within 18 months of purchase or before 18,000 miles, whichever comes first.
2.Take your vehicle to an authorized dealer for repair.
3.Allow a dealer a reasonable number of attempts to repair. A reasonable number of attempt means: your vehicle is subject to at least four repair attempts OR is out of service due to repairs for at least 30 business days and the problem still exists.
4.Request a copy of the written repair order every time you take your car to the dealer for repair or examination.
5.Read your owner’s manual or vehicle warranty.
◦Is written notice to the manufacturer required? If so, you must send written notice of your problem, along with copies of all repair orders to the manufacturer at the address identified in the owner’s manual or vehicle warranty.
◦Has the manufacturer adopted an informal dispute procedure that has been certified by the Attorney General? If so, you must follow the procedure before you can file a lawsuit under the Lemon Law.
◦If notice is NOT required and the manufacturer does not have an informal dispute procedure, you may file a lawsuit without notifying the manufacturer of your claim.
6.The manufacturer has 30 days to accept return of your vehicle and, at your option, replace the vehicle or refund your money.
7.If the manufacturer does not resolve your claim, you must file a lawsuit within two years from the date you first reported the problem to the dealer. If you win the lawsuit, you can recover all your costs and attorney fees.
REPLACED OR REPURCHASED VEHICLES?

The manufacturer is required to obtain a new title with a brand or stamp: “Manufacturer Buyback-Disclosure On File.” This stamp or brand should remain on the vehicle’s title for the life of the vehicle. The first time a dealer sells a replaced or repurchased lemon, the dealer must provide the buyer with:
•Written notice, at the time of sale, that the vehicle was repurchased or replaced under the Lemon Law, and
•A 12-month or 12,000 mile manufacturer’s warranty
People failing to comply with the buy-back disclosure and title branding requirements are subject to enforcement action by the attorney general’s office. However, the Lemon Law does not permit the attorney general to represent consumers in seeking a refund or a replacement vehicle.

NJ SHAWD

There seems to be something very wrong here.

Blaha

graphicguy seems like you have been given a lot of good advice but I think you should also consider submitting your story to The Consumerist http://consumerist.com . That website gets lots of exposure and I have seen many large companies change their tune quickly once featured. That website is actually owned by Consumer Reports after it was bought from gawker. As someone who just bought a new TL a month a go I can only imagine how much it sucks to go thru everything you are experiencing. Best of luck!

jvette

You need to start recording your conversations with everyone. Tell them you are doing so and then have your discussions with them. I'm also very interested in this because like another on here I have $75,000 worth of 2010 Acura's in my driveway.

HiroY

Wow! Been away from here a bit and just read this thread from start to finish - I feel for you GraphicGuy! So sorry to hear about your crazy experience!

neuronbob

GG, have you considered taking your car to a good independent Honda/Acura garage for a second opinion? There must be one in greater Cincinnati somewhere.

Bearcat94

Fuel Pump is ~$425 retail; Relay is ~$4.50 retail.

This relay has been used since 2004 and at one time or another, in nearly every Acura Model. Some level of reliability can be infered from it's widespread, continuous, long-term use.





He means the method/pattern of troubleshooting he listed in not uncommon in the Service Manual. IOW the manual *might* have a troubleshooting method something like:

- Test the relay.
- If the relay fails test the Fuel Pump.
- If the Fuel Pump fails, Replace the Fuel Pump.
- Retest the Relay.
- If the Relay meet requirements, work is complete.

(for example)

graphicguy

Appreciate the explanation. Some things on the service ticket just don't make any sense. This relay assembly is one of them.

But again, I'm way past this point now. Now, I'm getting a pretty clear picture of how Acura corporate operates. The least amount of interaction with their actual customer base, the better. They avoid contact with their customers like the plague.

From my experiences, they don't want to hear, or see their customer base. And, as what plagues some companies in other industries, their upper management want nothing to do with the people who buy their products. Very bad move by any company, let alone any car company, who has been through one of the biggest downturns I've seen in my lifetime.

Toyota, for all of their woes, seems to have learned this lesson the hard way (and has mended their ways) based on the responses from their owners here.

By a large margin, this is the worst I've been treated by any car company, let alone one who touts their "customer service" roots. And sadly, they don't seem to care, either.

I'm back to working with the dealership (specifically, the dealership owner) to see if they'll step up and do what's right.

I'll look into the "consumerist" as well as the local consumer advocate media, too.

Bob, good idea about taking it to an independent garage. At this juncture, I'm not putting out any more money on this car, though. I've put out way too much as it is.

kabota

Hey Graphic,
I have been following this for a while and don't like the way they have treated you. I find this situation very unusual. I worked for a different automaker both as a design engineer and as a quality engineer (It was a japanese automaker).

I would expect that Acura would have immediately sent a technician to the dealer to understand the problem. I was made aware of problems at the plant on warranty claims . Even some pretty minor things I was made aware of on a week to week basis.

Do you know what they did with the fuel pump? Where did they send it? I would get warranty parts back and work with the supplier sometimes in order to understand what happened so I could start working on solutions.

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

I don't work for Acura. I'm just explaining what they probably did to fix your car. I happen to think you are not owed a brand new car unless it falls under your state's lemon law policy. These laws are in place so people cannot demand new cars every time something fails. We put our lives at the mercy of our vehicle everyday. I feel for you and your situation, but honestly, Acura is following policy and laws for your area. If they took back every car that a customer complained about they would no longer be in business. I guess you can say I'm siding with Acura, but I'm just looking at it form a logical point of view. You are more steamed at this point at the reaction of the people you have dealt with more than anything and seem to be making it personal. I'm actually just trying to save you time, because in reality, a part failed on your car, the dealer gave you a loaner and repaired it in ample time. There is nothing more Acura corporate or the dealership owe you, and they are not required by any law to do more. Going to court will only cost you money and a hurt ego on losing the trial. Good luck in your fight, but I can predict it will be a losing one.

I have family that is a master mechanic for Chevrolet, and he was actually one of the highest mechanics in the nation. They sent him all over the country to figure out issues that no other tech could figure out. I can't tell you how many times he replaced ECUs on Corvettes. He said it was very common, and I'm willing to bet the majority didn't demand a new Corvette and those who did probably got nowhere fast. They only send specialized technicians when the regular tech cannot find the problem. They found your problem and fixed it.

graphicguy

CleanCL....I do appreciate your input. Bottom line, I had a brand new TL that had a monumental failure that, by luck, good fortune, the Grace of God...whatever you want to call it, could have caused an accident, injuries, or worse.

The car was barely 3 weeks old when this happened. I'm not asking for a swap out for a color I don't like, seats that aren't comfortable, or anything trivial.

I've given Acura multiple opportunities to reimburse me for what I consider reasonable expenses. I've given Acura multiple opportunities to swap out my car, at minimal expense to them (as I outlined in an earlier post).

Acura corporate, and even the dealership, can slice and dice the numbers anyway they want. Fact is, the swap would cost them in the neighborhood of $2K-$3K in real numbers when all's said and done. Truth be told, it probably wouldn't even cost them that much. I know what I experienced. I have no faith in my current TL. I have not, nor will I take it back on the interstate.

I'm not trying to set a precedence. I didn't have any "buyer's remorse" (up until my fateful Easter Sunday fiasco). I researched the car thoroughly. I was happy with my deal. And, being a former Acura customer, had faith in the car and the brand (again, up until a couple of weeks ago).

For reasons that are confounding to me, Acura, and their dealership, has "dug in their heels" with me. And, to what end? To lose a customer? To make an example of me?

I mean c'mon, what have they done? Denied my tow charges? Slap some parts in the car? Hell, even the General Manager at the dealership said he wouldn't put his own family in my TL after it was allegedly fixed.

I gotta tell 'ya, even talking to Acura Client Services, I had wished I could have reached through the phone and bitch slapped him. He couldn't have been more condescending and the total opposite of the term "Client Services". He didn't treat me like a client. And, there was nothing that even remotely resembled "service" in what he does.

There's nothing that Acura has done to make me a happy customer....NOTHING!

graphicguy

kabota....assuming you work for "Kubota"? I used to, in their computer division (yes, they have a computer division).

No parts were been returned to me. I don't know what became of them. As I mentioned, the Service Manager told me he'd never seen such a failure in the 20 years he had worked for Acura.

Mjakaz09TL

iTrader: (7)

Not that my will be worth a crap, but regardless of whether or not Acura should or should not replace the car the rep actually said HE COULD but unfort bcuz he wont get that new swimming pool with his bonus money its an FU to the customer/client! and to keep a customer happy as well as feeling safe in a car he invested a lot of money in should be what counts overall. A couple grand is like pocket change to Acura in this case. Not to mention take care of a repeat customer that has been happy in the past and purchased previously. More than likely would again but not NOW! The car will never be the same again, I cant imagine when that car shut down like it did and going from 70-20 in the snap of a finger could've been good on that tranny much less other components.

GG, i too would NOT dare feel safe driving the car especially with my family in it and absolutely would not! Good luck getting this issue resolved.

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

I do think you should have been reimbursed for the towing charges. I can't believe that either.

And I don't doubt those reps can be rude and condescending. I've dealt with some of them who are terrible and some of them who are a pleasure. My next step is to use the powers of the internet and write to every C-level person that works at the Torrence, CA headquarters. Someone may catch the letter and want to right some wrongs.

Some C-level contacts:
http://www.jigsaw.com/id216331_l10/a...contacts.xhtml

Some VP-level contacts:
http://www.jigsaw.com/id216331_l20/a...contacts.xhtml

I would just write the same letter and address it to each person who I think might remotely be interested in reading it. Good luck.

graphicguy

Thanks, CleanCL!

I'll pick and choose which "C" level execs could offer some assistance and send the same letter I sent to Mr Mendel (who promptly pushed it back to Acura Client Services). Whether I get the same response as Mendel had (which was NONE), we'll see.

I don't know how much further up the ladder I can go with the dealership. And, given the fact I really shouldn't be in this fight regarding who's responsibility it is (Acura vs the Dealer), I'm disappointed in their responses so far, too.

They could swap out the car, since according to them it's the "right thing to do". Then, they could go to battle with Acura and keep me out of it.

I don't buy into their explanation of "we're only their sales and service agents. We have no power."

They have a helluva lot more power with Acura than I do. There's something fundamentally wrong with that last statement. Acura should be much more open to listen to the people who are plunking down 10s of thousands of dollars a pop for their vehicles. The dealership is the only voice, face and interaction that we have with Acura, for the most part.

And, I do appreciate the AZ community for providing me a venue to vent my frustrations. Acura would do well to read through this thread (and the entire site, for that matter). I don't know if they do, or they don't. It would be a great way to take the pulse of their customer, and potential customer base.

Acura could learn a lot here.

Bearcat94

This game that Acura is playing, "The Run-Around", is nothing new. And it's not exclusive to Acura; it's a common corporate game. They figure you'll give up before you can break though their barriers.

Unfortunately this is how many corporations work: The customer is your best freind, UNTIL there is a problem. And when it comes to getting money out them (corporations), thats when they suddenly become impossible to deal with.

In these kinds of situations "right" and "wrong" hold little sway with the corporation; Thier pre-established processes (Lemon Law/Arbitration, for example) and money rule their actions.

graphicguy

Well, since this is a dynamic, and not a static situation. Things just took a 180 degree turn.

Just got off the phone with my dealer's General Manager. While not as frustrated as I am, he is at wits end with Acura, too. The owner told him to "make me happy". He asked what he needed to do.

Here's the bottom line....they've agreed to do an even swap. They're going to tint my windows.....install a clear bra. And, reimburse me for the tow charges. Plus, give me a free A1 service from my troubles. No more out of pocket from me.

This hasn't happened, yet. I'll head over there tonight to see if there are any "gotchas". But, on the surface, it seem they stepped up to the plate.

I'll keep everybody posted how that transaction goes.

Mjakaz09TL

iTrader: (7)

WOW that is awesome! Congrats and hope it all goes as planned!

btw, had u alrdy bought ur plates yet or still using the temp?

graphicguy

MJ....I'm still on (expired) temp tags. I was going to get the new tags tomorrow.

TLNV

Very much hoping that everything works out for you! Hang in there, and I am glad to see that at first glance it would appear that the owner is going to step up and do the right thing. Let us know how everything plays out (of course you will) but you know what I mean.

docboy

That's great news! Sounds like a good dealership with the right mentality (a heck of lot better than the scum bag Lexus dealership I dealt with).

Keep us updated, and hope all goes as planned above.

Bearcat94

Nice.

Guess that means your business means more to the dealership than it does to Acura.

JM2010 SH-AWD

Gguy-

Great news. Hope everyone follows through as promised.

Persistence pays off, and fortunately you have a good dealer -- something for all of us to keep in mind sometimes when we're chasing the last hundred dollars in a new car deal.

Keep us posted.

graphicguy

Ain't that the absolute truth. I get the sneaky suspicion that the dealership are the ones taking it in the shorts on this transaction.

Fingers crossed there are no surprises lurking when I get to the dealership.

Let's say that I'm cautiously optimistic, until I'm driving the new TL with title in hand.

BTW....I've refrained from stating who the dealership is, but here they are....

http://acura.superiorcars.com/index....=&oq=&gs_rfai=

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

It actually makes sense for the dealership to do this. By doing this, they ensure you will more than likely retain their services for when you need any maintenance (aside from A1), as well as they have a better chance that you will buy again from them. The short term loss means long term gain for them. Good luck.

MyT6MT

GL on getting what you fought so hard for and I hope it works out. I will hold my Congrats until you confirm that you got what they said they would do for you.

free598

i new acura would come through for u...LOL

Gryphon

Has the service manager been driving the car for the last few days? Any word on whether or not he experienced the same surges? Interested to know if the recent update is a result of him feeling that the car is not fixed.

Do I also recall correctly that you mentioned this thread in one of your communications with the dealer/Acura?

PsychDoc

HOLY CRAP!!!!!!!!

AWESOMELY GOOD NEWS!

No one deserves this more than you graphic!

I hope everyone in your area patronizes this dealership and tells their friends that they finally "stepped up to the plate" when the douchebags over at corporate Acura wouldn't lift a finger to help you.

SCREW THEM (and the horse they rode in on)!!!!!

golfjwr

I have come over from the 3G side and have been following this thread just like the rest of us. This is great news Graphic and I am really happy for you. You should throw them a little curve ball and tell them make the car a 6spd..lol. All joking aside, the severity of what happened to you while driving on an interstate should be reason enough alone for the stealership to do everything in its power to kiss your ass and make you happy.
GL and throw some pics up of the new baby when you get her. If possible try and find out if the they are really gonna use your old one as a demo.

BigWopHH

I would bet this is just Acura HQ taking forever to make a decision, and they had everyone stalling you. They don't gain anything by hanging you out to dry...

neuronbob

A DEALER makes good. GG should spread the word about this dealer so they get more business, they deserve it after this. From what I read, they have worked with you from the jump while Acura didn't.

Acura Corporate.....meh.

Acura, though, is not the only auto company that does this crap. I posted my experience with Dodge/Chrysler earlier in this thread, and I just read a similar experience with Cadillac Customer Service on the Cadillac forums. I guess that the car companies are like the health insurance companies in that they figure on a certain amount of customer churn and just budget for that.

jvette

I still think Acura should have stepped up and taken care of the Tow before things escalated to where they went. What's $300 to them to keep a customer happy. I don't have a real warm and fuzzy feeling for Acura at this point. I do hope the dealer makes good for you.

NBP04TL4ME

Nice

Interested in reading the update after your visit this evening.