Kingmeow

They have extended warranty to 120k miles but I have not seen for 10 years.

graphicguy

Probably the final end to this whole ordeal, but Acura (actually ACS) is issuing me an 8 year/120K mile bumper-to-bumper warranty on my new TL.

That should close the book on this.

Again, thanks to everyone for the advice, the willing ear, and the support here in the AZ community. I truly do appreciate it.

TLNV

NOW!!! you truly can worry less and drive more!!!

smarty666

My God man that is awesome. You'll never had to worry about anything with this car the majority of the time you own it!

canddmeyer

Great story, documentary, or whatever you'd like to call it. Your dealership came through. A rarity, but commendable. What's ticks me off about the whole thing is the $300 tow charge, not to mention the untold time wasted trying for a resolution. You call Acura, they call the towing company, and U pay. Something very wrong about that.

That a replacement vehicle was finally made available surprised me too, as I didn't think you'd get one, until you returned for additional issues after the fix. Acura corporate sure got a lot of adverse publicity on this one. At least they now appear to be trying to keep your future business, for the next 8yrs and 120,000 miles. While I'd be leery, 8yrs is enuf time to cool down, I think. As a potential customer, the outcome is a relief.

AZ, thanks for this and the Billz1109 threads. I've probably spent more time on AZ in the last 24hrs than I have all year.

SpicyMikey

Hey Graphic guy, I never read this thread as it exploded out of the gate and I never had time to catch up. It's Saturday morning and I'm drinking a nice cup of coffee and decided to read this saga. I admit after about page 5 I started skimming. From what I can gather the story goes something like this;
- Guy buys new TL
- New TL has a defective fuel pump that fails after purchase
- Guy calls TLC and they send a tow truck to get Guy home
- Dealer gives guy a loaner and fixes fuel pump in a few days
- Guy has car back
- Guy still waiting to be reimbursed for Tow charges.
- Guy tries to sell used car and Dealer offers Guy booked wholesale value.
- Acura gives Guy a 8 year extended warranty for his troubles.

What's the source of outrage? What did anyone do that is unreasonable? Did I missing something?

NJ SHAWD

Just when you thought...

SpicyMikey

Just when you thought what? Like I said, I started skimming after page 5. I have 4 Acura's in my driveway including an 09 and 10 TL. I'm interested in the story but don't get the outrage yet

graphicguy

Hmmmmm....I guess that's the reader's digest version. But, some pertinent facts left out.

My new TL stranded me two hours from home, in the middle of nowhere, on Easter Sunday. Save for an inch here, or a second there, the car's failure could have just as easily caused a monumental accident (interstate pile up, including a semi which would have crushed me like a grape), or worse.

Towed (on my dime) to my selling dealer, who was a little further away than the closest dealership. Then, I was left at the dealership after the tow with no way to my home (at which time I hoofed it about 5 miles).

Acura says they fixed the car. I'm relatively certain they only addressed the symptom and not the cause. I believe the car will have issues somewhere further down the road (could have already for all I know). I could be wrong, but I pass my dealership almost daily. And, I don't think the dealer still has it.

Acura Client Services (ACS) treated me poorly when I tried to collect on the tow charge. Further, at least until recently, they were quite condescending towards me.

Dealership principal, as well as the dealership's General Manager says they wouldn't put their own family into the former TL.

I wouldn't take the car on the interstate again as there are other issues (surging, jerky, etc) that haven't been addressed.

Dealership goes to bat for me. Replaces my new TL with another new TL, which so far, performs the way I thought the first one should perform.

Out-of-pocket is reimbursed on the former TL. Don't know if this came from the dealership, or through the dealership but was actually reimbursed by Acura.

ACS changes their tune and issues me an 8 year extended warranty on my current TL. But, this only happened after I sent a scathing letter to the VP of Honda North America (thanks to the good folks here at AZ who pointed me in his direction). I'm still waiting for the paperwork to be sent to me from Acura confirming this. But, the dealership's service dept says they have a record of the extended warranty in their computer system.

Some thought I over reacted. I disagree.

No matter, it ended the way it should have from the beginning. And Acura, but mostly my dealership, did what was right.

Bearcat94

Guilty as charged. But, as they say, "the proof of the pudding is in the eating."

SpicyMikey

Thanks for filling in the blanks Guy. I didn't catch the fact that you still had problems after the pump was replaced OR that they eventually replaced the whole TL OR that there was already a back and forth discussion about overreacting. Like I said, I started skimming after page 5.

Definitely an unfortunate situation and very glad you didn't get hurt on that highway. Your opinion is really the only one that matters but it seems to me this is a great PR story FOR Acura not AGAINST them. I'm stunned how much they did for you. I've never heard of such treatment.

I think I read a post by Colin early on in the thread. He said you didn't overreact, just reacted early. I'd probably go with that assessment. If this story was the same but we were in month 3, I'd say break out the pitch forks. But considering all this happened and was resolved in around 2 weeks. it seems you could have had some more patience and saved yourself a bunch of aggrevation, Fedex charges, and teeth grinding. To me I can't imagine how much more Acura could have done or how much faster they could have reacted. I also assume you will eventually get your Tow charge reembursed also. Like I said, this is a big corporation, they have procedures and things take a little time.

eg5

iTrader: (4)

im sure acura was just tired of all the complaints. plus given the toyota buzz, they probably wanted to cool off any potential fires. what even surprises me the most is some other dealer came out and actually gave him a new car. guess business was slow for them.(generate publicity)
guess all the customers who didnt have their cars fixed the first time should head over there for the new car exchange program.
in my opinion his original dealer couldhave handled this problem better that they did. i seriously doubt the fuel pump was the issue. from what was described in his posts, i feel a bad ckp/cmp sensor might be a fault. yes an intermittant problem.

graphicguy

Bearcat....Mikey....it's cool!

I'm sure we all would have handled the situation differently. I did it the way I did it. Everything turned out OK in the end. It was the in-between stuff, the way I was treated by ACS, that really irritated the shit out of me.

I can look back with 20-20 hindsight and wonder if I would have done things differently if ACS would have been a little more supportive, sent me a check for the tow charge, maybe have thrown in a couple of oil changes for my troubles, I may not have raised as much hell as I did.

Initially, ACS dug in their heels. So, I dug in my heels as a response.

EG...I know that Acura gave my dealer an extra car to sell. Did they compensate them in other ways? I don't know. But, I think they did get something from Acura as the 180 degree turn from telling me "no" at every turn was suddenly reversed.

eg5

iTrader: (4)

you are my hero.
im off to lunch now. have a good one

kixo

Graphicguy -- I appreciate your detailed postings and follow-up on your ordeal, and congratulate you on your perseverance and the positive outcome.

May I ask how much of the Acura and dealer turnabout would you assign to your postings, and/or your letter to the Acura VP? Did you sense they were not only trying to appease you, but stop a PR problem from getting bigger?

Would you also consider posting the VIN so we can be aware of the vehicle if it comes up as a CPO? I know this may be sensitive considering the dealer helping you out.

Also, are there any ACS reps we should avoid or ask for if we need corporate help?

winstrolvtec

I wonder if ACS took that initial position because of all the claims against Toyota that were going on. Maybe when they finally found the car to be as defected as GG indicated they changd their minds. Anyway at least it's over and done and Acura even if it was only at the dealer level did something about it.

Kixo, GG will have to answer your other questions but I know Acura uses a regional ACS rep who is assigned to your case so unfortunately I don't believe there is much you can do about that. I believe they use a regional parts and service manager for the same region as well.

graphicguy

kixo...wintrol's right. Acura has regional field reps for sales, parts and service. All 3 were involved with my first TL, although I only actually interfaced with the Acura sales regional rep (via con call with my dealer's GM). Supposedly, Acura corporate wanted my car and/or replaced parts back. Whether that's true, or whether the dealer's service manager just told me that to impress upon me how much Acura "cared", I really don't know.

As far as what had more impact during my ordeal, I can only go by the sequence of events. Talking, whether it be on the phone, or in person, to the dealership's GM, Service Manager, Owner, Acura Client Services, Acura Regional Sales person.....all of that netted me nothing. I was getting a lot of finger pointing and being run in circles, but nothing in the way of resolution.

As someone else here at AZ suggested, writing and sending a letter, to both the Dealer's principal, and the VP of Acura (both of which I sent FedX overnight to magnify my frustration) seemed to be the one thing that caused some positive movement. In that letter, I outlined what had happened, what the outcome was, and how I was getting nowhere with anyone. I was pretty blunt in my assessment of Acura Client Services and the Acura Regional Rep, both of whom couldn't care less about my debacle. And, I appealed to both people how I was truly disappointed in Acura as a repeat customer. Those two letters seemed to set off a series of behind the scenes actions that netted me a car swap and reimbursement. Acura Client Services also changed their demeanor towards me dramatically for the better.

Who had more influence in setting things right? The Dealership Principal or the Acura VP, I really don't know. I also don't know what happened behind the scenes to cause such a sudden change.

As far as my first TLs vin, I posted it in one of the posts in this thread. I didn't keep a file on it when the dealer swapped out my car. So, I no longer have it. Long thread, I know. But, it's in here somewhere.....probably in the latter 1/2 of posts as opposed to earlier in the thread.

graphicguy

Just as an exclamation point to all of this, I'm not condoning going off on Acura for inconsequential things. I still think that Acura (and Honda) makes some of the best built, most reliable, and longest lasting vehicles than any manufacturer, anywhere, regardless of price point. I believe they're better than Toyota, GM, Ford, BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar....any of them.

Don't use my situation as a blue print to tangle with Acura. I think my situation was rare. I hope Acura learned a little bit about customer relations during this whole debacle. But, I'm just one customer. Things went sideways with my new car.....pretty dramatically, at that.

I didn't have buyer's remorse then. I don't have it now.

If all I wanted was to get out of my car, I would have tried to get a total refund. I didn't. As sometimes happens, a car snuck out of the factory that had some issues......some serious ones. Given time, I think Acura would have figured out what went wrong (and I'm still convinced it wasn't just a simple fuel pump) and fixed it. But, it was a new car. There were driveability issues even after they allegedly fixed it.

And, I wasn't going to stick around and be their guinea pig (which could have had disastrous consequences) for them to nail down what truly went wrong.

Although my replacement isn't the color combo I originally preferred (CBP w/taupe). I like my new one (WDP w/taupe).

In short, these are very good cars. They're capable of doing amazing things. I expect my new one to serve me very well, for a very long time.

You can fight about how you do/don't like the styling (I like it). But, you can't deny that they're great performers, that are built to some lofty standards, which can take you to well beyond 100K miles with little more than routine maintenance.

Having had BMWs in the past, I do like their cars, as long as they're in the warranty period. Same is true for Audis (I never have owned one, but my sister has). Past that, you don't want to own either of those unless it has warranty on it as it will become a black hole where you throw your money.

The Infiniti G was my 2nd choice. But, even there, it was looking like routine maintenance costs were their biggest bugaboo. I know some love their styling. I'm probably in the minority, but it wasn't expressive and was "blah" to me.

kingofire

Acura's cost of ownership, be it service, extended warranty, insurance etc....is by far the cheapest in the luxury division. Its blows every other luxury brand. Probably one reason why some refuse to consider Acura a "true" luxury brand

graphicguy

king....I think there's always the perception that if you pay more, you get better quality, luxury, whatever you want to call it. I've learned time and again, that's not true in a lot of cases, whether talking about cars, clothes, etc.

You can slather a car in pampered cowhides and exotic wood. That doesn't make it a luxury car. When I think of luxury cars, I think of a rolls, a maseratti, or something of that ilk. They're hand made, for the most part. And are relatively rare. That's luxury.

Acuras, BMWs, Infinitis, Benzs, etc are all very nice cars. They're all made on an assembly line. Their respective manufacturers crank out thousands of them. Yeah, you may find some less mundane materials in them (like aluminum, wood touches, better leather, etc. But, none of them hold a candle to the likes of a true luxury vehicle.

Another example....I love watches. I probably have 40 of them. Some are purportedly limited editions from what they say are top end. Some I paid well into 4 figures for. A few have real gold touches. Some have exotic automatic wind mechanisms. None of them keep better time than a couple of Swatch watches made out of stainless and PVC.

An Acura is the best that Honda knows how to do. They all incorporate technologies derived from their racing heritage. They're still mass produced, as are BMWs, Audis, Mercedes, etc. It just so happens that Acura can make them upscale without adding the premium that the European marks have to charge (i.e. the price of free maintenance and higher labor rates are the main reasons BMWs cost more).

Aside from the little sideline I had to take outlined in this thread, I still don't think there's another car manufacturer who makes a better built, better engineered, longer lasting car, than Acura does. Even Toyota/Lexus has so unceremoniously lost their luster as has been chronicled recently. Regardless of how you position your cars and brand, massive unintended acceleration, rollovers, braking problems, etc shows how they share parts and technology that's not been fully vetted, and how it affects every brand they sell. They can charge more for a Lexus. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a better car than their Camry. It just means they added a few more features, some wood, some leather, and say...."it's luxury".

Another example, I'd have a hard time making the decision between an Audi A4 and a VW CC if I were in the market for those cars, regardless of how VW positions Audi.

graphicguy

What I hope is the final installment regarding my issue. Up until this point, we had an agreement that I was to receive a check for my aftermarket tint and clear bra. Having waited two weeks since then, the only thing I received was a check directly from Acura for the tow bill (thought it was supposed to come from the dealer).

Up until this point, all the agreements had been in writing between me and my dealer.

Called my dealer looking for the check for the tint and clear bra reimbursement. They said it was supposed to come from Acura (first time I was told that).

Once again, called ACS. Apparently some mix up. And, apparently Acura did get involved in this. Given what was communicated between me and the dealer, and between the dealer and Acura, I began to get testy again.

ACS said they told the dealer that I would be getting a voucher from Acura good for anything from the dealer (that includes service, accessories, OEM parts...essentially anything you can get from a dealer). Not my original agreement with them, but could be an honest miscommunication. I'm OK with that.

My car is already in the nationwide database as having extended warranty, zero deductible for 8 years or 120K miles. That part is fine. A little different on the tint/clear bra reimbursement terms. But, I can live with a voucher (worth $950) from Acura, good at any Acura dealership, for essentially anything.

05TLbase

thanks for keeping me entertained for the last 2 hrs... probably shoulda been doing homework but very informative none the less.

BLEXV6

Nope, you did not overeact (just read the threads today for the first time), the only thing I would have done different is sick my Wife on them. She is a pitbull. Also, I am in customer service, and know what Acura had to deal with and it is always the poor people with no authority that have to deal with this.

acurapartssource

Fuel pump assy 17045-TK5-A10 & 39794-SDA-A03 (Fuel injector,Sarter,Dive by wire relay) are what they replaced. It also looks like its back on the lot for sale.VIN#19UUA9F53AA005230. Glad everything worked out for you.

Six Shifter

Warranty extended until 120K? What would I do after year 4?

graphicguy

I'll have to go by the dealership to take a look. I haven't been back since this whole ordeal took place and I took delivery of my current TL.

So, fuel injector, starter(?) and drive by wire was the issue? I no longer have the service paperwork.

After 2K miles on my current TL, it runs a lot better than even the first one did fresh off the lot. So, problems were there initially, as I look back.

graphicguy

Six...the extended warranty is for 8 years/120K miles, $0 deductible.

Six Shifter

Sorry ... u missed my point ... see sig block to see where I was going (hint: mileage driven vs years owned = ?)

thegbu

Tranny lock problem is the likely issue - saw it once myself on honda product rental car

chaiwala

I have not been on this board for a long while but it sounds like the same problem I had with my 2009 TL. Mine didn't lose power on the highway but same symptoms. Acura did buy my car back too. Wonder if there are more of "us" who haven't found the acurazine web site.

graphicguy

I heard some people before talk about it being a transmission lock issue. I don't know what that is. I know my new TL drives better than my "old" one did. And, I still believe there was something else amiss with the car other that the dealership either couldn't or wouldn't diagnose. Maybe the trans lock issue is what you're talking about.

lji

A bit late here, but could you explain how you "dug in your heels" ?

ShabazKilla

Glad to hear that the dealership took car of you. Nice to see someone that understands the importance of customer service.

lordkoo

All the trouble you put yourself and dealership through which was extra work which you did not have to.

You could have:
Let the same repair work done 3 times and filed for lemon clause. Then get a new car or full refund of your purchase price.

In mass production lines, there is always a few bad apples of products. Afterall we are all human, we are bound to errors. Nobody is perfect.

Corey_Straker

Hey Graphic I've got the same dealer! My uncle purchased his 2007 TL Type-S from there and we purchased our 2012 TL from there! Haven't heard any other horror stories from Superior Acura. Was nice reading this story. My heart sank for you, but when I read about the 180 I was ecstatic for you! Hope the new ride is treating you well! Cheers from Ross!

Mr Marco

^thanks, I really didn't want to read 7 pages of rants & advice followed by 3 pages of congrats.

BMW-racer

Soooo after all this looks like graphicguy ended up trading his tl for a 335xi like he should have done from the start

wreak

You'll find 10 of these threads for the 335i for every 1 for the TL. Why are you hanging around a TL forum anyway? Buyers remorse?

JM2010 SH-AWD

Bring it out to a road course. Let's see which one turns quicker laps!

graphicguy

Wow....you guys drug up this old thread

Truth is, an E92 335 ix equipped like for like with a TL SH AWD will be $10K-$13K more than the Acura. The TL will be more reliable, has better tech, is more comfortable, and handles really well. The BMW will be marginally quicker, handle better, is smaller, ride rougher, and of course, be more expensive.

We're not talking quantum leaps of differences, either (except the ELS in the Acura is to me, the best in the biz.

Is the delta in price worth it? Only you can answer that.

And, the F3x is a step backwards from the E series.

The TL (and now the G37, with the Q50 coming in August), are the luxury/sport/performance/value leaders of the decade.