2012 TL SH-AWD or Lexus 2013 GS350 AWD F Sport
#122
Three Wheelin'
Welcome aboard Kenya, Jesus Christ 11.5k to lease a car sounds a little much. I mean I don't know how deep your pockets run but let's just say(and I would not wish this to anyone) your car gets into an accident you do know that u loose all that money you put down. Anyways enjoy the car the new GS is a beautiful car. I've had my 12 AWD tech advance for about 5 months and got to test out the AWD in the snow and I was just amazed how the car drove in the snow during the northeaster in New York. I think the Tl is a great car for the money specially in AWD form.
I have a friend who does "one-pay" leases. Pays the entire amount of the lease in one payment up front. Do you really think he is out all the money if the car is totaled or stolen?
I'm not in favor of putting down money on leases btw, but I think that this myth falls under the heading that if enough people say it long enough it must be true.
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BEAR-AvHistory (01-10-2013)
#124
Instructor
Before I bought my TL AWD tech, I was originally going for GS RWD F Sport. However, the dealer wasn't too interest in earning my business. An old salesman (my friend who i bought my last lexus left them earlier this year, so I had to find someone else to talk) told me that they can't offer me a test drive because they don't usually order RWD GS especially in F-sport and they won't give me any discount even I was about to buy my 3rd lexus. Walked away and got a very good deal on a TL a few blocks down the road with no regrets.
#126
I'm not sure why this myth about losing the down payment is perpetuated. You might want to do a little more homework on how insurance and lease payoffs actually work. Then you need to think through what happens if you buy a car and finance 100% of it (which is effectively what a lease is). Also, most leases now actually come with gap insurance which comes into play.
I have a friend who does "one-pay" leases. Pays the entire amount of the lease in one payment up front. Do you really think he is out all the money if the car is totaled or stolen?
I'm not in favor of putting down money on leases btw, but I think that this myth falls under the heading that if enough people say it long enough it must be true.
I have a friend who does "one-pay" leases. Pays the entire amount of the lease in one payment up front. Do you really think he is out all the money if the car is totaled or stolen?
I'm not in favor of putting down money on leases btw, but I think that this myth falls under the heading that if enough people say it long enough it must be true.
No myth here buddy. It is NEVER a good idea to put a large down payment on a lease. You will lose most if not all of it. In the first few years of a car, that is when the most deprecation occurs. You will have very little equity if any in those years unless you had put down a very big down payment. In a lease you are just renting the vehicle, any down payment is just a pre-payment of whatever the total cost is to rent the vehicle for that time period. So there is no equity in lease. All you did with a large down payment is paid upfront what you were responsible for anyway. To me its better to keep that money in the bank and allocate that down payment throughout the term of the lease. Of course you will then have a higher monthly payment. The contract in a lease states you responsible for the cost to rent that vehicle for the period and then you have an option to either purchase the vehicle at the residual value or return the vehicle back to them. In the case of total loss, you have no car to return, so you now have to pay for that vehicle. The cost of the vehicle would be the remaining payments (rental cost) + residual value at the end of the lease + taxes on the residual value + any miscellaneous fees. You insurance company will settle these costs with the owner (Financing company). I’ve never heard about the Finance company/Insurance Co. cutting a check to the lessee for any excess (equity) between how much was paid out by the insurance Co. (FMV of the vehicle) and the total cost you owed to the Finance company. Please feel free to provide links which states that they do. And EVEN if they did how much do you really think you would get back?? In this example of the $11K, you would be lucky to get half of that back. So again, it is NEVER a good idea to put a large down payment on a lease. The less money upfront, the less you will lose in the case of a total loss. Perhaps it is you who needs to do some homework.
Gap insurance only comes into play if you owe more than what the insurance settlement paid out. Which is the case in most leases where there is a total loss. But in the case of a $11K down payment, GAP insurance would not apply as your saying the person has equity in the vehicle as a result of the large down payment.
btw.. your friend should definitely find out from the dealer what happens in the case of a total loss. I never knew "one pay" leases existed. I'm not sure why anyone would do that as it defeats the purpose of a lease (low monthly payments).
#130
I too looked at the GS350 F-Sport, but it was when they first came out back in Feb-March. The lease numbers that were given to me were reason enough to run, not walk away from the dealer. Now, lease numbers aside, the interior of the car was very impressive and felt very substantial. I never took the car on a test drive, as the only models available were the non F-Sports. The car looks awesome though. When my lease is up in my TL, the GS will definetly be compared for my next vehicle.
In regards to the $11K down, maybe it's possible the money was used towards multiple security deposits.....I hope!
In regards to the $11K down, maybe it's possible the money was used towards multiple security deposits.....I hope!
#131
I too looked at the GS350 F-Sport, but it was when they first came out back in Feb-March. The lease numbers that were given to me were reason enough to run, not walk away from the dealer. Now, lease numbers aside, the interior of the car was very impressive and felt very substantial. I never took the car on a test drive, as the only models available were the non F-Sports. The car looks awesome though. When my lease is up in my TL, the GS will definetly be compared for my next vehicle.
In regards to the $11K down, maybe it's possible the money was used towards multiple security deposits.....I hope!
In regards to the $11K down, maybe it's possible the money was used towards multiple security deposits.....I hope!
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queens207tl (11-18-2012)
#134
Safety Car
I sat in a gs350 at the autos how yesterday. I so want one but can't get over the fact that it needs buttons as I hate that stupid mouse for all the controls.
#135
True but you didn't own the 2012 which had many refinement changes which make it very close to the quality of the Lexus.
I sat in a gs350 at the autos how yesterday. I so want one but can't get over the fact that it needs buttons as I hate that stupid mouse for all the controls.
I sat in a gs350 at the autos how yesterday. I so want one but can't get over the fact that it needs buttons as I hate that stupid mouse for all the controls.
#136
Safety Car
I agree the GS does. It is no doubt a nice car. My friend owns one just like yours with the F sport package. I want one so badly but at the 45k~ price it's at, and no discounts, I had to get my TL for now (38k with discounts). The 2012 though since we own a 2009 and a 2012 is MUCH better. Just driving loaners isn't going to point out the difference. You need to drive them more. It's much quieter, stiffer suspension and steering, solid feeling, less rattles, upgraded interior and exterior parts. If it wasn't for all the upgrades I would have not gotten one. Our 2009 has been solid since getting it with no issues other than a weird brake pressure issue the dealer just can't figure out right now. But other than that, it's been fine.
#137
There is no such thing as a 45k gs. I wish!! I got mine for around 52. On the website they say starting at like 45k but there is no such car made. In fact it is a stripped down version. Trust me I was not to happy about this and almost settled for a white '12
I need to post some pictures up of the gs. I just bought a new wheel. I Rashed it
I need to post some pictures up of the gs. I just bought a new wheel. I Rashed it
#138
Safety Car
Here is the one I saw at the autoshow. I'd post it without a link but on the ipad so can't without tapatalk.
http://russz.smugmug.com/Car-Stuff/O...8941&k=Z78vs9p
http://russz.smugmug.com/Car-Stuff/O...8941&k=Z78vs9p
#139
Drove the GS 350. Has oodles of tech but although the engine is responsive, the car feels underpowered. The interface control knob is quirky and hard to aim. No back button either. The sport, normal, eco modes worked well. The steering feels nimble but really light. A great rich luxurious car that at over 2 tons is not really a luxury sports car imo.
#140
Drove the GS 350. Has oodles of tech but although the engine is responsive, the car feels underpowered. The interface control knob is quirky and hard to aim. No back button either. The sport, normal, eco modes worked well. The steering feels nimble but really light. A great rich luxurious car that at over 2 tons is not really a luxury sports car imo.
#141
Come on man...only two people??!! At least 6 or 7 TL owners (me, Docboy, Winstrolvtec, etc..) that seriously did look at the 5 Series, one 528 owner (AEmedic) that decided to go TL, one 3rd gen TL owner (Hamma Tyme) that decided to go 5 Series because he simply did not like the look of the 4th gen TL and now this gentleman undecided between a GS and a TL...in this section of the forum alone!!!
Lease or buy it does not matter...the same person that may buy the Acura may decide to lease the Lexus or the Bimmer (and it is a reality, there are brands that are much more leased than others) this does not change their ability to put their buns in cars with appreciable differences in their MSRP....
While I definitely believe the GS is more refined on the luxury side, you keep saying "no context" when you actually never drove a TL SH-AWD.....I think you could say that at least if you drove the damn thing at least once!!! .....
Lease or buy it does not matter...the same person that may buy the Acura may decide to lease the Lexus or the Bimmer (and it is a reality, there are brands that are much more leased than others) this does not change their ability to put their buns in cars with appreciable differences in their MSRP....
While I definitely believe the GS is more refined on the luxury side, you keep saying "no context" when you actually never drove a TL SH-AWD.....I think you could say that at least if you drove the damn thing at least once!!! .....
#142
When I closed the door on the GS I couldn't believe how heavy and solid it was. If I had a magic wand my car would have the ride/handing characteristics of the TL SH-AWD and the sound proofing and luxury appointments of the GS (minus the mouse). I'd pay 12G more for that and no I don't think the RLX is going to fit that bill.
#143
Instructor
I test drove the new gs350 f sport and the base model on the performance tour around september of 2012 @ metlife stadium. I must say the car is very capable, the test drive allow you to drive the car hard around in a closed cone track. The non f sport model had a lot of body roll, in order to get better response u have to turn the dial knob all the way to sport+.
f sport model handled much better, less body roll and the throttle response seems better in sport+ mode. Steering response is not as "loose" as its more tighten. I can't comment much on the rwd because they only had awd.
Compare this to a friend of mine 2012 TL...the TL is more of a drivers car, i feel the road and the steering is more precise. But the interior (leather, widescreen navi, comfort, soft touches on the dash and doors, etc) and quietness is WAY better than the TL.
Maybe that is where your $15k is going towards all the comfort creatures...But compare that to the new 335i....BMW will win lol thats another story.
Not sure what the resale value of the gs vs TL but im sure both cars should sell well.
f sport model handled much better, less body roll and the throttle response seems better in sport+ mode. Steering response is not as "loose" as its more tighten. I can't comment much on the rwd because they only had awd.
Compare this to a friend of mine 2012 TL...the TL is more of a drivers car, i feel the road and the steering is more precise. But the interior (leather, widescreen navi, comfort, soft touches on the dash and doors, etc) and quietness is WAY better than the TL.
Maybe that is where your $15k is going towards all the comfort creatures...But compare that to the new 335i....BMW will win lol thats another story.
Not sure what the resale value of the gs vs TL but im sure both cars should sell well.
#144
I own 12 sh-awd and have also test drove 13 gs awd f sport extensively (including pushing to 150km on freeway).
there is fundamental difference between two company's drivetrain and engine how the power is delivered.
Gs feels like more of a tweener naked sporty bike that takes the high perf engine of a superbike but detuned so that makes more torque on low rpms and buttery trans. awd system is very transparent too. sport mode is also nice makes your dash turn red and hear the exhaust a little but, that a little would be like hearing stock TL exhaust.
TL feels engine comes alive after 2500 rpmish. trans has more urgency to it than it is not as smooth as Gs's. awd system is not as transparent as Gs's but, def more bang and more smiles. everybody probably agrees with this. when you corner on awd TL. car feels like it is pushing you to the direction you want to go.
interior and all the plush luxo stuff aside, I don see a value in the price increase.
It's like choosing iphone vs galaxy 3 or note 2
one's got more refined UI, the other got more nerdiness to it. they all do the same thing and gets same thing done at around same time.
I use note 2 so, my choice was TL awd advanced. LOL
there is fundamental difference between two company's drivetrain and engine how the power is delivered.
Gs feels like more of a tweener naked sporty bike that takes the high perf engine of a superbike but detuned so that makes more torque on low rpms and buttery trans. awd system is very transparent too. sport mode is also nice makes your dash turn red and hear the exhaust a little but, that a little would be like hearing stock TL exhaust.
TL feels engine comes alive after 2500 rpmish. trans has more urgency to it than it is not as smooth as Gs's. awd system is not as transparent as Gs's but, def more bang and more smiles. everybody probably agrees with this. when you corner on awd TL. car feels like it is pushing you to the direction you want to go.
interior and all the plush luxo stuff aside, I don see a value in the price increase.
It's like choosing iphone vs galaxy 3 or note 2
one's got more refined UI, the other got more nerdiness to it. they all do the same thing and gets same thing done at around same time.
I use note 2 so, my choice was TL awd advanced. LOL
#145
Suzuka Master
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A bit confused on the lease thing. A guy puts $2,500 down & pays $700 a month. Another guy puts down 12,500 & pays $200 a month. What is the difference outside of the opportunity cost on the $10K?
#146
Burning Brakes
The guy loses out on $12,500 and whatever else he already paid monthly for the lease as opposed to just $2,500+ in the event of a total lost. Either way he's screwed but worse if he puts more money down. Then you have to factor in how long he leased it or how much money he paid before the total lost. So if he totaled it within a month and had put down $12,500 plus the first month's payment then he's out $12,500+ already as to just $2500+. I hope I got that right but someone correct me if I'm wrong.
#147
Suzuka Master
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If he buys the car puts 12K down, maybe as a trade, to get the loan & totals it in one month what is the difference?
Regardless of how its financed the insurance company is going to pay out the same amount of money for the loss + leases have gap insurance to cover any shortfall.
Regardless of how its financed the insurance company is going to pay out the same amount of money for the loss + leases have gap insurance to cover any shortfall.
#148
Burning Brakes
Right. When a car is totaled the lienholder has to be made whole. The insurance company gives you the value of the totaled car from which the loan/lease is paid off. If you put $12,500 down or $500 down the difference is opportunity cost.
Granted with leases essentially you are paying to use up a fixed value of the car based on lease mileage. But I my thinking is if I could afford to do a one lease pay, I might was well not lose the opportunity cost of the money and put a smaller down payment.
And for the record you can get gap insurance on a finance deal also. Gap insurance policies provide protection if the owner/lessee is unable to make the payments.
Granted with leases essentially you are paying to use up a fixed value of the car based on lease mileage. But I my thinking is if I could afford to do a one lease pay, I might was well not lose the opportunity cost of the money and put a smaller down payment.
And for the record you can get gap insurance on a finance deal also. Gap insurance policies provide protection if the owner/lessee is unable to make the payments.
#149
Suzuka Master
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So the bottom line is its six of one half dozen of the other.
#150
Acura TL SH-AWD 2009
« Zut! » Nous imaginons les dire autour de la fontaine d’eau Cadillac. « Acura nous battre à la CTS 2012! »
D’où est-ce que sa vient? Depuis la pert peu RSX 2002, la division Acura de Honda a été pelleter toujours plus profondément dans la bouillie de style de grilles confuses et les flancs mous (les sceptiques, s’il vous plaît voir le RDX, MDX, et TSX). Juste au moment où nous nous sommes arrêtés soin où cette séquence conduirait, nous obtenons ce TL fascinante, décisive sculpté faire appel à votre Batman intérieure.
« Zut! » Nous imaginons les dire autour de la fontaine d’eau Cadillac. « Acura nous battre à la CTS 2012! »
D’où est-ce que sa vient? Depuis la pert peu RSX 2002, la division Acura de Honda a été pelleter toujours plus profondément dans la bouillie de style de grilles confuses et les flancs mous (les sceptiques, s’il vous plaît voir le RDX, MDX, et TSX). Juste au moment où nous nous sommes arrêtés soin où cette séquence conduirait, nous obtenons ce TL fascinante, décisive sculpté faire appel à votre Batman intérieure.
#151
If I were to drive an automatic, I would choose the GS over the TL everyday. But then again, its 15K more so its not really a fair comparison. But because I only drive manuals, I would STILL choose my TL over an auto GS. I dont think the GS comes in a stick.
#152
Agreed, GS fell off my radar due to the lack of MT. On the flip side, TL would not have been on my radar if it weren't for the MT...
#153
I test-drove an IS350 F-Sport AWD before buying my TL, back in March 2014. It's not a GS but it's smaller, with the same tech, drivetrain, and engine.
Pros:
* 8-speed auto had quick shifts and good responsiveness.
* Engine was more powerful than what its numbers said.
* Seats were surprisingly comfortable.
* More of a cockpit-feel when driving.
* Dat LF-A gauge cluster... *drool*
Cons:
* Smaller inside than the TL (obviously since it's not a GS)
* The Lexus infotainment system is... just, nope.
* At the time these were flying off lots so Lexus dealers didn't have to budge much at all on prices.
In the end I went with the TL which I was able to get for $38K flat plus tax, title, & tags. Last model year incentives
Pros:
* 8-speed auto had quick shifts and good responsiveness.
* Engine was more powerful than what its numbers said.
* Seats were surprisingly comfortable.
* More of a cockpit-feel when driving.
* Dat LF-A gauge cluster... *drool*
Cons:
* Smaller inside than the TL (obviously since it's not a GS)
* The Lexus infotainment system is... just, nope.
* At the time these were flying off lots so Lexus dealers didn't have to budge much at all on prices.
In the end I went with the TL which I was able to get for $38K flat plus tax, title, & tags. Last model year incentives
#154
I test-drove an IS350 F-Sport AWD before buying my TL, back in March 2014. It's not a GS but it's smaller, with the same tech, drivetrain, and engine.
Pros:
* 8-speed auto had quick shifts and good responsiveness.
* Engine was more powerful than what its numbers said.
* Seats were surprisingly comfortable.
* More of a cockpit-feel when driving.
* Dat LF-A gauge cluster... *drool*
Cons:
* Smaller inside than the TL (obviously since it's not a GS)
* The Lexus infotainment system is... just, nope.
* At the time these were flying off lots so Lexus dealers didn't have to budge much at all on prices.
In the end I went with the TL which I was able to get for $38K flat plus tax, title, & tags. Last model year incentives
Pros:
* 8-speed auto had quick shifts and good responsiveness.
* Engine was more powerful than what its numbers said.
* Seats were surprisingly comfortable.
* More of a cockpit-feel when driving.
* Dat LF-A gauge cluster... *drool*
Cons:
* Smaller inside than the TL (obviously since it's not a GS)
* The Lexus infotainment system is... just, nope.
* At the time these were flying off lots so Lexus dealers didn't have to budge much at all on prices.
In the end I went with the TL which I was able to get for $38K flat plus tax, title, & tags. Last model year incentives
#155
Don't get me wrong - the TL's interior is fantastic and after almost 2 years and 20K miles is holding up really well. It's more because of the gauge cluster, steering wheel, & paddle shifters in the IS/GS F-sport. Altogether, they really make the car feel like something else. I'd say though that IS is a bit more snug just because it's smaller, which makes it feel even more like an actual cockpit.
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