jjsC5

Knowing that AWD is important, let me add a little to my earlier post. Granted, the '10 Lexus I have is going to be more of a "casual fit" car than the '13 will be, but I think the comparison will still have merit. When I go from my Lexus to the TL, the difference is truly huge, even though functionally they are very much the same - meaning that they both have about the same room in them, they both get very similar gas mileage etc. The Lexus is a little faster, and gets a little better gas mileage. But I'm the first to say that they are close enough that those issues would not sway me one way or another.

I said the TL feels more like a sports sedan. I cannot emphasis that enough. You immediately know you are in the sport car of the two. The ride is much stiffer, seats are more confining with lateral support, the steering wheel is thicker, smaller and steering is much more responsive. Keep in mind there are pros and cons to that. For a five hour drive, the attributes that make the TL the sport car of the two also make it less comfortable.

There are a few differences in equipment - such as the fully powered steering wheel in the Lexus. But honestly the difference are not much. The Stereo, navigation and bluetooth functionality in the TL are all better. But I'm expecting the '13 Lexus to have great strides in those areas (and the current Levinson stereo is very good).

You have to decide how much you want a sports sedan versus a luxury sedan. If you don't need the F-Sport package then the prices are going to be closer. If you want the sport packages & AWD and all the goodies then yes, the Lexus might be $15,000 more money. And no, it's probably not worth it from a truly objective standpoint. But not everyone buys cars for strictly objective reasons.

Most folks on these forums are car nuts who factor in purely emotional reasons for buying cars, and if the extra $15,000 is not a strain on our budgets, we often spend stupid money because it's what we do. Heck, why not buy an Accord for $15,000 less if its all about the money and being objective?

BEAR-AvHistory

saturno_v

So the bottom line is you can get the TL discounted. I found your no or little discount statements in the debate interesting since all the TL’s here are going at or below invoice, walking in the door.

This is despite the two dealers, Raleigh/Chapel Hill are 20 miles apart & the next one down the road is 60+ miles away & having no competition.

saturno_v

I always get my car discounted......from any brands and any brands does discount......even BMW have been bought below invoice....and rest assured I would buy one under invoice if I decide to get one...

BEAR-AvHistory

^^^^

But the point is you have been stressing that Acura stores will not deal to keep the TL pricing up for the debate.

saturno_v

Yes in my experience (1 car) they were very tought and not willing to negotiate much for a long time which is surprising to me for a vehicle that supposedly does not sell very well...eventually they relented....maybe it is the attitude from Acura dealers in Seattle who knows.....

BEAR-AvHistory

^^^^

Yeah it must be because even 90210 is below invoice.

Treblig

Just saw the road test of the 2013 GS on Motorweek. My take away is, if you feel like "driving" then the TL SH-AWD is the way to go. Motorweek says the GS is improved over the previous version, basically due to improved electronics. "it still falls short of providing the absolute feedback of European and even American rivals" per Motorweek.

Mr Marco

WTF^ So Motorweek said, "The TL drives better than the Buick."
God damn, I hope so.

this is me

Thanks for all the feedback guys. I went to a Lexus dealer today and spent quite a bit of time there. Obviously, they don't have the 2013 GS but I did get to talk with the sales guy and his manager on the 2013.
I took the 2011 GS-AWD for a test drive and as expected, ride quality is very very good. First we went on the MA pike(freeway) and with the power mode on, I feel the power is definitely there. Wind noise at highway speed is minimal. Then we went to a narrow and bumpy road in the city and the ride was quite comfortable. Then I went into the parking lot and did some donuts to check out the turning radius. Overall, I was quite impress.
If I were to buy a car just to buy a car and didn't care if I get what I really want or not, I would save quite a bit in the 2011 as they don't have many left and offer steep discount from the sticker to get rid of them. The sticker price on the particular one is $53k(AWD with premium package, park intuitive, and some other small options). A rough negotiating brought down the price to $46K. If I were serious, I probably could've walked out with it for $45K. The problem is, they only have a black and a white one. Both are not my favorite color car. But the deal is pretty appealing.

We then talked about the 2013 GS and the manager gave me the invoice of what's on his radar for February. 2013 GS-AWD with F sport package+cold weather, navigation package, park intuitive, and some small accessories for $58.5K. He said discounting on this one will be very hard. But I'm pretty sure I will be going with this one. Some of the options I like that are only available on the 2013 are
-adaptive variable suspension
-heated steering wheel(I live in cold weather so I do appreciate this)
-windshield wipers de-icer
-and the abundant of tech/gadget on the interior
-and most of all, I like the exterior and interior styling of the 2013 a lot more than the 2011

Ronp8

Congratulations on both your college and career achievements. Personally I don't think you could go wrong with either choice unless you over extend yourself to get either. But if money is not an issue I say follow your gut feeling and get the car that satisfy you. All of my cars I have ever owend have been a toyota/lexus and I have never had any trouble out of them. I know you will get the same reliability from honda/acura products. So I wish you the best on your decision and enjoy whatever you decide to get. They are well worth the money.

012TL-GLM

The Lexus is a solid choice. Funny that you're in the opposite position I was in a few months ago. I wanted a sportier drive, with great road feedback and handling characteristics. I was in an Avalon Limited (essentially a FWD GS, or as I considered it, a sofa on 4 wheels) and was tired of that numb, dull drive.

When I test drove a GS 350 it was still just too comfortable, if that makes sense, lol.

Since you're coming from a TL to a GS, I'll be curious if you're itching to get back to the sportier feel after a few years. I was in a 2000 SLP GTP before the Avalon and missed that car every day. My '12 TL SH-AWD reminds me a lot of that car, a lot better in many respects, but a similar feel that I'd been missing.

Enjoy your new car!

jspagna1

Lexus vehicles are and always have been a very quiet comfortable car. My mother-in law owned a number of Lexus vehicles and they were just to cushy for me. No road feel at all.
It all boils down to personal preference. Lexus/Toyotas are good quality vehicles. I can attest to that with my 97 4Runner bought new and having 164,000 dependable miles and still running strong.
But for me,it's not what I am looking for in a car so a TL or a Maxima would be more to my liking.

jjsC5

I agree it boils down to personal preference, but a lot of people overlook that is also has a lot to do with where you live and what you use it for. My Lexus is used for commuting around Houston, which is one of the most boring cities to drive in this side of Florida.

But I also have a Z06 Corvette that I take out on Sunday mornings and run some backroads that have wide open space to run it through the gears, and I know of some nice twisty roads on my 140 mile round trip ride for a donut and cup of coffee (just got back from doing it this morning).

g37guy01

Agreed. There are a lot of Z06 in my neck of the woods. But they all go in the garage covered, when there is a cloud in the sky, rain or heaven forbid 2 feet of snow. Useless transportation devices if you ask me.

On the theme of using it based on where you live, a lot of SUV like vehicles to get through the snow.

However, when I tire of the G I will be ready for a switch based on the current offerings and will not hesitate to get into a luxury sedan like the GS whatever, if that's what I think I want.

jjsC5

I agree that the Z06 is a pretty useless transportation device. But so is sex, and I really like sex a lot.

g37guy01

Some things in life are optional, some aren't.

A Z06 is optional.

Ronp8

I agree the I had a 98 4runner limited with 245,000 miles and was still running great. Well great until I was rear ended and pushed into two cars. Great vehicle.

this is me

I will get a get a chance to test drive the 2013 GS next Tuesday before the February launch. The Lexus rep is in town to show the sales people and train them on the new GS.
If all goes well, I should be depositing my money on the all new 2013 GS F-Sport.

pbm317

Avalon is in no way shape or form "essentially a FWD GS"


this is me, congrats on choosing the GS. The 2013 is a beast of a contender in the mid-size luxury sport sedan market and I'm sure you'll love it!

TL_Guy

Honestly it comes down to personal preference. Both are great buys!!! I love the radical styling of both however in my experience Acura will prevail over Lexus. Acura's are focused more on performance, efficiency, reliability, and "timeless beauty", where as Lexus is more of a cruise around and look good while doing it with the occasional WOT (Wide Open Throttle). I say Acura....you'll get so much more for your money.....amenities that you'll actually use everyday.

pimpin-tl

Just an FYI, the 2013 in person does not look as good as the 2011 GS. The interior to me also feels BMWish. The car has a bit stiffer suspension than the one you drove so you can expect that. I just don't think I would spend that kind of money on a new one and only pick one up after a few years.

Edit: Okay who was the guy who bumped a old thread. lol.

omaralt

i'm actually very interested in the GS350. i went and test drove one last week and i was very impressed. they only had one (non-Fsport) available to test drive; but i was able to look at an F-sport (already sold) and IMO it's stunning. it was white with the red leather and it looked great. i drove the "base" car (still has nav, etc) with RWD (i'm in FL, they dont even stock AWD). and IMO it's much more luxurious. from the leather dash, rear sunshade, HUGE screen, rear climate control, and adjustable suspension. also it's insanely quiet; it's definitely a step up in refinement; however it's nowhere as fun to drive as my 6 MT. i also do like the availability of high end options (HUD, night vision, etc). they were also surprisingly open to negotiating on the price; he was willing to sell me the car for $500 over invoice. maybe in a few years, when i hit the big 3-0 and want something a little quieter i'll look into it.

g37guy01

I can't say I agree with any of this.

pimpin-tl

It better be for around 15k more in price. LOL

Omu

Did the op end up getting the GS?

The new GS' back resembles the back of Camry, ES,.. and A4.. Nothing wrong with it. I'm just not a fan of Camry. (:

pimpin-tl

IMHO the new GS is ugly. I like the older design.

gbc848

Considering the price and the looks I will go with ACURA TL

SPAWN

This comment made my day! LOL

Nexson

New GS is sweet!!!!

MileHigh6MT

I debated the new GS vs. the 6MT TL. In the end I went the Acura route. My wife has owned 2 RX SUV and they were superb...100K + without an issue and the resale was impressive. The GS is excellent in many ways. The engine/tranny are superb and the interior is gorgeous. Handling is solid in F sport. The exterior is OK. The TL is a different car especially in MT. It is far more engaging and handles like a dream especially when pushed really hard (SH-AWD is legit). I can afford any car and thought I would be happier is something with a bit more entertainment behind the wheel. That being said, the GS is excellent and I would take it any day over my previous 5 series.

Monte TLS,MAX

I agree, the 06-11 was a sharp design inside and out. The current one in F sport looks decent, the normal ones meeehh.

Kenya Graham

IMHO:

I owned an '05 TL FWD (Only Option), traded for the '10 SH-AWD TL, crashed it in July and am now leasing a '13 GS 350 F-Sport RWD.

I live in the Austin, TX area where it's summer road conditions 10 months out of the year.

I was bored with the TLs in their styling and handling. The '05 TL had a tendency to understeer in tight turns and the stock Michelin tires sucked on slightly wet surfaces when cornering. I finally settled on Yokohama Avid Envigor tires that performed well and lasted significantly. They are all-season HP tires.

I personally loved the body styling over the latest generation which led me to the dilemma in Nov '10 on what to buy. Options: Audi S4, Acura TL SH-AWD. I had to step up to something over my '05 TL.

Loved the AWD performance and handling thrill of the Audi S4. Much more responsive and overall more powerful (330 HP over 305 HP). Cornering was an adventure in the S4 and you felt and interesting torque in curves at accelerated speeds. The TL SH-AWD at accelerated speeds was stable and clean and rarely misbehaved. It was stable and a little boring.

Crashed the '10 TL SH-AWD, looked at the Audi S4 again but could not find what I liked in a total package for a price that I could work with.
Shopping with a friend who was also in the market for a car went to Lexus who I had ruled out already because I thought all of their cars just LOOKED like glorified Toyotas. Get to the lot and see the GS 350 and GS 350 F-Sport. F-Sport sold me on the spot purely on its aggressive sporty styling. Lexus was more creative in their leasing options in that I was able to get a 20,000 mile / yr lease and put down $11.5K. My terms came out to $600 / mo. which was only $25 / mo. more than my '10 TL.

Styling:
A matter of taste but the car feel bigger than the TL. Wider because of the straight dashboard lines and the huge Navi / information display.
The telescoping wheel assist and seat recessing upon leaving and entering the car are my favorite features. I'm 6'0" 230 lbs, so that helps ease getting in and out.
Outside key lights at night upon sensing you and the keys are near ... very nice. Also on the BMW line.
Blind-spot detection now on the 2013 TL.
Parking assist I use to avoid getting too close and staying away from someone scratching my car.
Overall fit and finish is impressive but the TL is impressive new as well. A matter of taste and color can make a difference. I'd give the F-Sport a slight lead though overall.

Main missing features: no Hard Drive to store CD tracks. If you still have CDs that you don't have in digital form, this forces you to either keep them in the car or make them digital. Nuisance.
Audio control: No control for your center channel. I think the standard audio sounds better in the Acura than in the Lexus standard audio.

Performance:
I mainly drive in Normal Mode but have tried both ECO and Sport+ modes. I would say that I'm generally not impressed with throttle response in any of the modes nor the manual shifting as it is a little sluggish and slow to kick. In downshifting I usually have to try to drop 2 gears before I get a strong response. I'll attribute it to the car being 6 speed as opposed to 5 like the TL. The TL responses a little better to shifting.
Turning: Excellent road contact with the F-Sport. Accelerating through turns is stable and strong even without AWD. Tighter turn radius in the RWD than the AWD too. The stock tires hold awesomely. Haven't really had too much wet to really test but I think I had at least one day. I haven't had oversteer which is more attributed to the stability assist I'm sure. I've tried to keep stability assist off to see if I can get the car to misbehave but keeping that off is not easy.

The only thing that I will say is that a high speeds the F Sport feels a little scary especially on fly-overs. In Central TX we have fast hwy speeds ranging from 65 to 85 MPH. The TL feels more comfortable at higher speeds and that may be to the F Sport's quick response handling.
Overall: Choose the F Sport for its cornering performance while keeping excellent traction. The TL's stock Michelins just don't cut it after 2 months of driving. The TL AWD still has a tendency to understeer. The "Big Car" feel of the F Sport takes away from the sportiness of the car and feels almost too roomy up front. It mentally makes you think the car is going to roll all over the road but it handles better than most as a 4 door sedan.

Also I get better gas mileage on a smaller tank in the Lexus and about $10 less per fill up on the Lexus than the Acura. I fill up about every 4 - 5 days and get about 330 miles per tank. About the same in the TL. They both take premium.

types1fan

Welcome aboard Kenya, Jesus Christ 11.5k to lease a car sounds a little much. I mean I don't know how deep your pockets run but let's just say(and I would not wish this to anyone) your car gets into an accident you do know that u loose all that money you put down. Anyways enjoy the car the new GS is a beautiful car. I've had my 12 AWD tech advance for about 5 months and got to test out the AWD in the snow and I was just amazed how the car drove in the snow during the northeaster in New York. I think the Tl is a great car for the money specially in AWD form.

23109VC

TL SH-AWD will be way sportier than a GS.

the GS is more about luxury and comfort. the TL is more about sportiness and luxury is second.

for the money, the TL is the better buy. the Lexus is more prestigious..

what do you care about

test drive them both and get the one you like better that you can afford and feel is the best value for your money.

omaralt

Wait, so you put $11.5K down AND you pay $600/month???

queens207tl

$11K on a lease is a big NO NO. I sure hope he doesn't total that car, as he can kiss that $11K goodbye.

potmilkz

holy shit dude.. 11k must be the biggest down of all time under a lease..

a current lease is only $3800 down and $500 a month for lowest model.. even with the f-sport which adds on nearly 9k still wouldnt beat 11k down and $600 a month

pimpin-tl

Yeah, that is not a good deal. Lexus dealer screwed him on that. lol!

docboy

Holy smokes, I had to read his post again and did a double take. I am not usually a proponent of leases, and would only recommend it if one can lease a vehicle through their business/corporation....

But $11,500 for a lease down payment? Is that right? Wowzers, that's money you won't get back. If I were ever to lease a vehicle, it would definitely be through my corporation, and I would aim to put as little down as possible (as close to near zilch if possible), no matter what vehicle it may be. IMHO.

types1fan

Oh yea the stelership shaft him real good. lease with zero down if possible or thru your Business.