2009 TL Pictures? ***NEW PICS ON PAGE 44***
#2041
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What very few seem to have questioned is how and why Acura would have opted for another 5-speed transmission. This is insane! The 2009 Infiniti G37 sedan will have 328 hp and a 7-speed transmission, not to mention even better brakes and Scratch Shield paint. Pricing will likely top out at $42K. Will buyers be willing to dole out a probable $45K+ for the Type S when it's finally rolled out considering its competition? Highly unlikely.
#2042
![Roll Eyes](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
Then on top of all that, I don't see swiveling headlights that follow the steering wheel as an option at all, or a standard push start. Hopefully we see those added as options, but looking at Acura's past, its doubtful that they'll add options like that in the year-to-year changes.
When has Honda/Acura ever offered a single item as a option? Maybe one day it will be a part of an option package but there won't be a time that I can foresee where you'll walk into a dealership and check a box that says 'I want 'xyz' feature" It's just not the "Honda way" of doing things efficiently.
#2043
My only car is a Bus
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Every luxury auto maker puts stuff in packages. If you want a la carte buy domestic. Besides, when too many things are offered a la carte buyers get upset because it's impossible to find the car with what they want on it and it's a nightmare to sell those kinds of cars.
If you want 'cheaper' buy a Honda. Acura is a luxury brand. I hope Acura moves so far upmarket that the bargain shoppers just stay away.
And people would rather bitch about something than praise it... just human nature.
If you want 'cheaper' buy a Honda. Acura is a luxury brand. I hope Acura moves so far upmarket that the bargain shoppers just stay away.
And people would rather bitch about something than praise it... just human nature.
Acura's whole "tech package" is a rip-off. So if you only want automatic windows, but you don't want nav, you have to shell out the extra 2+ grand for the whole 9 yards. You can argue that its cheaper for Acura that way, but most people don't give a crap, they want to save money, they don't care about saving Acura money. I do admit though, its a clever way to get people to buy stuff they don't want. Its just rare that I ever hear someone have something nice to say about a package that an automaker has, instead of the features that the package offers.
#2044
What? The tech package is necessary for automatic windows? What? the tech package price has been announced? Stop being a silly rabbit.
#2045
What notable new features did the 3G TL get over the years, besides the Active Noise Cancellation for the Type-S in 2007? I'm curious because I don't remember hearing about much.
Hey, maybe we can cross our fingers and hope they introduce an electric rear sunshade, a touchscreen nav, ventilated seats, swiveling headlights, noise cancelling windshields/windows, rear passenger window shades, an electronic trunk closer, all automatic up & down windows AND a 6-speed automatic all within the 5 year model span.....
![Why Me](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/whyme.gif)
Push button start is part of the tech package, so it is available as an option. If you seriously think Acura will ever go with 30 stand alone options you are but a young padowan learner.
I personally would prefer a la carte and wait an extra few months for my car rather than paying for an unintuitive nav system. And no, I have no tried the TL's nav system yet but from my experience touchscreens are easier to use.
...but I never said they should be stand alone options. I agree with you, like I said its easier for Acura to make money that way, but personally I could care less about "packages" and the same goes for most people I know that are looking at new cars.
What? The tech package is necessary for automatic windows? What? the tech package price has been announced? Stop being a silly rabbit.
#2046
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LOL, you entirely missed the point. I'm not in any way suggesting that the TL will not out sell the RL. The RL is one of the best cars out there that is still a sales flop and there's no good way around that.
I think that Acura agrees with you since the new TL is equipped with almost the exact feature set as the RL. It's as if Acura has finally realized that it is pointless to protect the RL further. But the TL will always lack a few items because you just can't bring everything to the table at the same time.
I think that Acura agrees with you since the new TL is equipped with almost the exact feature set as the RL. It's as if Acura has finally realized that it is pointless to protect the RL further. But the TL will always lack a few items because you just can't bring everything to the table at the same time.
#2047
Racer
I think the biggest thing going against the 4th gen TL, besides the controversial styling and grill, is the transmission. Not having a 6 or 7 speed is totally unacceptable. Yes, a 6MT will be availabe next year, but why next year? Buyers who want this car, but really want a 6MT will have to wait until next year, which will lower sales for this year. And when will we see the 6AT? During the 2012 MMC? that's too long to wait for something that the competition had for the past 2 years.
It's safe to assume that Acura has been working on 6/7 speed transmission, and will only implement it when it's ready and ground breaking. But why wasn't it ready, and still isn't ready now that the competition has shown their hands? The average consumer will not care about how many speeds the tranny has, but when you talk about being tier 1, a 5 speed just won't cut it. I think having a 5 speed tranny is more offensive/disappointing than the looks/grill. And as someone mentioned before, I wish Acura would stop "holding back" features on their vehicles so they can screw buyers fom year to year. It's one thing to hold back on a feature, but to tell you that the feature you want will be available next year is just plain stupid!
It's safe to assume that Acura has been working on 6/7 speed transmission, and will only implement it when it's ready and ground breaking. But why wasn't it ready, and still isn't ready now that the competition has shown their hands? The average consumer will not care about how many speeds the tranny has, but when you talk about being tier 1, a 5 speed just won't cut it. I think having a 5 speed tranny is more offensive/disappointing than the looks/grill. And as someone mentioned before, I wish Acura would stop "holding back" features on their vehicles so they can screw buyers fom year to year. It's one thing to hold back on a feature, but to tell you that the feature you want will be available next year is just plain stupid!
#2048
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I think the biggest thing going against the 4th gen TL, besides the controversial styling and grill, is the transmission. Not having a 6 or 7 speed is totally unacceptable. Yes, a 6MT will be availabe next year, but why next year? Buyers who want this car, but really want a 6MT will have to wait until next year, which will lower sales for this year. And when will we see the 6AT? During the 2012 MMC? that's too long to wait for something that the competition had for the past 2 years.
It's safe to assume that Acura has been working on 6/7 speed transmission, and will only implement it when it's ready and ground breaking. But why wasn't it ready, and still isn't ready now that the competition has shown their hands? The average consumer will not care about how many speeds the tranny has, but when you talk about being tier 1, a 5 speed just won't cut it. I think having a 5 speed tranny is more offensive/disappointing than the looks/grill. And as someone mentioned before, I wish Acura would stop "holding back" features on their vehicles so they can screw buyers fom year to year. It's one thing to hold back on a feature, but to tell you that the feature you want will be available next year is just plain stupid!
It's safe to assume that Acura has been working on 6/7 speed transmission, and will only implement it when it's ready and ground breaking. But why wasn't it ready, and still isn't ready now that the competition has shown their hands? The average consumer will not care about how many speeds the tranny has, but when you talk about being tier 1, a 5 speed just won't cut it. I think having a 5 speed tranny is more offensive/disappointing than the looks/grill. And as someone mentioned before, I wish Acura would stop "holding back" features on their vehicles so they can screw buyers fom year to year. It's one thing to hold back on a feature, but to tell you that the feature you want will be available next year is just plain stupid!
![Why Me](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/whyme.gif)
#2049
I personally would prefer a la carte and wait an extra few months for my car rather than paying for an unintuitive nav system. And no, I have no tried the TL's nav system yet but from my experience touchscreens are easier to use.
...but I never said they should be stand alone options. I agree with you, like I said its easier for Acura to make money that way, but personally I could care less about "packages" and the same goes for most people I know that are looking at new cars.
...but I never said they should be stand alone options. I agree with you, like I said its easier for Acura to make money that way, but personally I could care less about "packages" and the same goes for most people I know that are looking at new cars.
#2050
I don't know the answer but how long does it take to design and test (for durability) a new transmission? 2-3 years? Well 2-3 years ago, Honda was just trying to find out of the changes to the existing 5AT fixed the problems. When I spoke to an engineer a couple of years ago about this very subject he essentially said "we need to get this one right first"
#2051
Racer
I don't know the answer but how long does it take to design and test (for durability) a new transmission? 2-3 years? Well 2-3 years ago, Honda was just trying to find out of the changes to the existing 5AT fixed the problems. When I spoke to an engineer a couple of years ago about this very subject he essentially said "we need to get this one right first"
![Why Me](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/whyme.gif)
#2052
I have no idea what they're actually working on, but suffice to say it would be the "honda way' to try to do more with less. There is no other reason that I can see that the J series is still SOHC.
#2053
Honda Fanboy
As far as having a 5 speed auto still... I think it is a pretty well known fact that the next TL will be based off of a RWD chassis. Acura has stated that this TL is a strong direction of where they are headed but it is NOT their definition of a tier one car. Clearly, the lack of a more advanced powertrain is what restricts Acura from calling this their tier one car. If you were spending your money, would you develop a 6 or 7 speed transmission that will be used in a FWD based car for only ONE generation and then spend even more money to develop a 6 or 7 speed transmission for the next generation car that will be RWD based? The SMART thing to do (what Acura is doing) is to hold off until the next generation model that will be on a completely different chassis and THEN give it a new transmission that you can use on the following generations after. This is what Acura is doing. Right now the G35x gets 17/23 MPG. The TL SH-AWD also using a 5sp auto gets 17/25 MPG. I doubt the G37X will be more than 1 MPG within the TL SH-AWD. The 2008 Infiniti FX35 AWD with a 5 speed auto gets 15/22 MPG. The new 2009 FX35 AWD with 7 speed auto gets 16/21. It DROPPED one MPG on the highway, thus keeping the average MPG exactly the same as the 5 speed version. I don't know about you, but something tells me that Acura will be far more capable to improve their fuel economy with the new transmission when compared to the current 5 speed.
Last edited by VTEC Racer; 08-22-2008 at 07:04 PM.
#2054
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You just answered your own question. The 3rd generation TL did not receive any notable new features over the years, yet it still managed to outsell the IS and G35 even when they first debuted. It has only been recently that the G35 has started to sell more than the TL on some months. Same for the IS. As you can see, the lack of any notable upgrades through out the year and the lack of options that match the competition item for item clearly did not affect the TL's sales significantly. Why would you think it would affect the 4th generations? The IS and G are only getting older and the G was getting domestic-like lease/sales offers after it's first year. There is a reason why Infiniti has to update the G more often and have it on a four-year cycle instead of the standard of at least 5 years for this class. Even with the G's more frequent upgrades and lower MSRP, the TL still managed to have a lead in the overall generation sales.
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Are you talking about the 04 tl when it first came out or are you talking about the mmc in 07? Because the 04 had things in it that most all car companies had yet. Bluetooth, 8 inch nav screen, very good voice recg system, mem seat tied to the key. This new tl really brings nothing new at all. i already spoke to 3 salesman at acura that I konw and they said most of them are disappionted with the features of the new TL.
#2055
CLS 6MT Navi
Not offering MT immediately is a mistake, esp if they are going bolder and sportier. Didn't they learn this lesson from the 2G CL? Offering a manual only in the 3rd year lost lots of enthusiasts who left and never came back.
Acura is too cautious.
I guess they are gonna make MT exclusive to the AWD model but it should be in the first year out..
Acura is too cautious.
I guess they are gonna make MT exclusive to the AWD model but it should be in the first year out..
#2056
Instructor
As far as having a 5 speed auto still... I think it is a pretty well known fact that the next TL will be based off of a RWD chassis. ...If you were spending your money, would you develop a 6 or 7 speed transmission that will be used in a FWD based car for only ONE generation and then spend even more money to develop a 6 or 7 speed transmission for the next generation car that will be RWD based? The SMART thing to do (what Acura is doing) is to hold off until the next generation model that will be on a completely different chassis and THEN give it a new transmission that you can use on the following generations after. This is what Acura is doing. ..... I don't know about you, but something tells me that Acura will be far more capable to improve their fuel economy with the new transmission when compared to the current 5 speed.
Anyway its a moot point as I do not think Honda will have 6AT or 7AT in near future in any of its vehicle.. Seems like they are really behind the curve in this department
![2 Cents](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/2cents.gif)
#2057
You just answered your own question. The 3rd generation TL did not receive any notable new features over the years, yet it still managed to outsell the IS and G35 even when they first debuted. It has only been recently that the G35 has started to sell more than the TL on some months. Same for the IS. As you can see, the lack of any notable upgrades through out the year and the lack of options that match the competition item for item clearly did not affect the TL's sales significantly. Why would you think it would affect the 4th generations? The IS and G are only getting older and the G was getting domestic-like lease/sales offers after it's first year. There is a reason why Infiniti has to update the G more often and have it on a four-year cycle instead of the standard of at least 5 years for this class. Even with the G's more frequent upgrades and lower MSRP, the TL still managed to have a lead in the overall generation sales.
As I already said, the 3G TL's advantage of having the most features and among the best looks in class for a great price is now gone. Its now easily the ugliest car in its class, and has no notable features that its competitors don't have... in fact, besides having a nicer interior, I can't come up with anything it has that its competitors don't have, along with a 5-speed automatic.
![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
As far as having a 5 speed auto still... I think it is a pretty well known fact that the next TL will be based off of a RWD chassis. Acura has stated that this TL is a strong direction of where they are headed but it is NOT their definition of a tier one car. Clearly, the lack of a more advanced powertrain is what restricts Acura from calling this their tier one car. If you were spending your money, would you develop a 6 or 7 speed transmission that will be used in a FWD based car for only ONE generation and then spend even more money to develop a 6 or 7 speed transmission for the next generation car that will be RWD based? The SMART thing to do (what Acura is doing) is to hold off until the next generation model that will be on a completely different chassis and THEN give it a new transmission that you can use on the following generations after. This is what Acura is doing. Right now the G35x gets 17/23 MPG. The TL SH-AWD also using a 5sp auto gets 17/25 MPG. I doubt the G37X will be more than 1 MPG within the TL SH-AWD. The 2008 Infiniti FX35 AWD with a 5 speed auto gets 15/22 MPG. The new 2009 FX35 AWD with 7 speed auto gets 16/21. It DROPPED one MPG on the highway, thus keeping the average MPG exactly the same as the 5 speed version. I don't know about you, but something tells me that Acura will be far more capable to improve their fuel economy with the new transmission when compared to the current 5 speed.
![Tomato](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/tomato.gif)
Also, you forgot to mention that the 2009 FX37 weighs over 150 lbs more than the 2008 FX35, thus the lower EPA ratings. The 2009 FX37 also had an increase in displacement and was tuned to make more horsepower, at the expense of a bit less torque, both of which usually end up decreasing fuel economy. Also, DOHC engines usually use more gas than comparable SOHC engines do, not to mention that the Nissan VQ engine is even older than the J-series.
So what you're saying is you would settle for 17/25 when Acura is easily capable of even more. Imagine if they were able to successfully implement direct injection into their engines, AND have a 6 or 7-speed automatic. They would easily have class leading fuel economy.
And someone already mentioned, there are still plenty of other FWD vehicles in Honda/Acura's lineup. No wait, scratch that.... EVERY single current production car in their entire lineup uses FWD, aside from the S2000 and the RL. Argue all you want but the only thing you're doing is making excuses for Honda's poor product planning/management. If they had a DI 3.7L V6 with a 7-speed automatic transmission, and exterior design that actually looked decent, they would easily outperform their competitors in terms of performance.
#2058
Well, Honda/Acura has never done it ala carte, even back when you got the Integra or TL-S. I don't see it happening any time soon. On the other items, you feel the TL is under equipped for the price but I see it as offering far more features standard than most of the competition. On this we'll have to 'agree to disagree' cause we're just going 'round and round' and not getting anywhere.
#2059
Cablevision Employee
Im so disappointed.....This car does not even come CLOSE to the initial visual impact the 3G TL did. I like the new RL much better. Its a shame what they did to it.
#2060
FIGHTING ILLINI
I don't know the answer but how long does it take to design and test (for durability) a new transmission? 2-3 years? Well 2-3 years ago, Honda was just trying to find out of the changes to the existing 5AT fixed the problems. When I spoke to an engineer a couple of years ago about this very subject he essentially said "we need to get this one right first"
#2061
The problem has always been with the 5-AT V-6 transmission and the next generation of this tranny is what we're talking about. You can't move on to the next step till you know the current one is working.
#2062
Racer
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You answered your own question. The Civic puts out 100-200 hp and relatively modest torque. They already have working 5ATs (for a 4 cyl) so they were probably free to move on to the next step for these transmissions.
The problem has always been with the 5-AT V-6 transmission and the next generation of this tranny is what we're talking about. You can't move on to the next step till you know the current one is working.
The problem has always been with the 5-AT V-6 transmission and the next generation of this tranny is what we're talking about. You can't move on to the next step till you know the current one is working.
![Why Me](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/whyme.gif)
#2063
Suzuka Master
As far as having a 5 speed auto still... I think it is a pretty well known fact that the next TL will be based off of a RWD chassis. Acura has stated that this TL is a strong direction of where they are headed but it is NOT their definition of a tier one car. Clearly, the lack of a more advanced powertrain is what restricts Acura from calling this their tier one car. If you were spending your money, would you develop a 6 or 7 speed transmission that will be used in a FWD based car for only ONE generation and then spend even more money to develop a 6 or 7 speed transmission for the next generation car that will be RWD based? .
I know I don't follow this that closely, but where did Acura state next TL will be RWD? Also you don't wait 5 years to put in an item to compete with your competitors. I think the truth is I suspect Honda is in a delemia, there are proabbly debates raging in Honda all the time, they are torn with being able to leverage the Accord platform to save $$ and then packing in features. Also they coudl easily swith to a 6 or 7 speed autom in the next year or 2, look at the 3G TL, they changed tanny souricng a few times and I beleive the tranny in the 07/08 is absed on the RL tranny more then the previous tranny and the Type-S I believe is mostly if not a RL tranny. I think Honda needs to plant the flag somewhere, focusing on a grill as a way for people to identify their brand is ridiculous, the TL is quickly becoming the sole car in it's class that is FWD based and still based on it's mainstream sister (Accord). Sure the ES350 is a Camry, but is the ES the direct TL competitor or is it the IS?
#2065
FIGHTING ILLINI
You answered your own question. The Civic puts out 100-200 hp and relatively modest torque. They already have working 5ATs (for a 4 cyl) so they were probably free to move on to the next step for these transmissions.
The problem has always been with the 5-AT V-6 transmission and the next generation of this tranny is what we're talking about. You can't move on to the next step till you know the current one is working.
The problem has always been with the 5-AT V-6 transmission and the next generation of this tranny is what we're talking about. You can't move on to the next step till you know the current one is working.
![Wink](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
#2066
I am not sure what the big deal with 5 or 6 gears for transmissions. I drive a TSX with 5 gears and I don't see any difference from my g/f VW who has 6 gears. I agree that I wouldn't want to go back to a 3 gear transmission but I am not sure having an extra gear is a deal breaker for me. Honda/Acura make wonderful and reliable transmissions and these are very efficient. I mean my 2009 TSX get about 6.3l/100km on the highway so that is nothing to sneeze at and more than acceptable. I wonder if this whole gear thing is not more about bragging rights....sorta like mine is bigger than yours... Don't get me wrong, I don't want Honda/Acura to stop developing and improving but only if they feel they can make a significant improvement on their current designs and NOT because they feel they must because someone else has it. I suspect I'll get flammed for saying this but I have my extinguisher nearby....
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#2068
If thats what honda is thinking, I give somone else my money to give me somthing better. I've worked on honda's and drove them since 94 and now they are loosing me because they are not stepping to the plate. Your answer on why they dont go forward sucks and they are not getting my money this time around![Why Me](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/whyme.gif)
![Why Me](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/whyme.gif)
Honestly, I can't believe the whining here. (not directed at you, but in general) They don't have it now, they probably will have it soon. If it's not soon enough for you, then by all means go somewhere else. I'm sure you'll find that every brand has it's strengths and weaknesses. This is why there are so many brands, as buyers evolve or change their priorities, they move on to other things.
#2069
By the same token, Honda has led the way with other products: First all aluminum chassis, first to comply with 1975 US Clean Air Act, first hybrid, first practical fuel cell, first with 4 wheel steer, first Japanese to set up a US factory...
Honda is going to do what Honda wants to do. This spirit of independence is what attracted many of us to the brand. Now it seems that everyone wants Honda to follow what everyone else does (RWD, V-8, Turbos for example) I can only wonder; if they were doing this all along, would we have been captivated by the brand?
#2070
Well, I don't know if its "unbelievable" but we've seen it before. Remember life before the MDX? HMC was the last to jump into the crossover SUV craze. Remember the first Accord V-6? Honda was blind sided by the Camry V-6 and had to rush and cram the old Legend 2.7 liter into the car while they finished up development on the J series.
By the same token, Honda has led the way with other products: First all aluminum chassis, first to comply with 1975 US Clean Air Act, first hybrid, first practical fuel cell, first with 4 wheel steer, first Japanese to set up a US factory...
Honda is going to do what Honda wants to do. This spirit of independence is what attracted many of us to the brand. Now it seems that everyone wants Honda to follow what everyone else does (RWD, V-8, Turbos for example) I can only wonder; if they were doing this all along, would we have been captivated by the brand?
By the same token, Honda has led the way with other products: First all aluminum chassis, first to comply with 1975 US Clean Air Act, first hybrid, first practical fuel cell, first with 4 wheel steer, first Japanese to set up a US factory...
Honda is going to do what Honda wants to do. This spirit of independence is what attracted many of us to the brand. Now it seems that everyone wants Honda to follow what everyone else does (RWD, V-8, Turbos for example) I can only wonder; if they were doing this all along, would we have been captivated by the brand?
I think you have brough an excellent point!! People complain when Acura/Honda copies something (looks too much like a Toyota or a Nissan) yet complain when they don't copy their features. I think we should embrace individuality of car company and appreciate their strength and move to another brand if they don't carry what we want. If all cars were made the same, it would be pretty boring!! I like Acura for what they offer which is why I am driving one still today, the day they stop exciting me, I'll move somewhere else until they offer something to bring me back. I am not sure why everyone think that what THEY want is what everyone else wants and it should be part of Acura's plan.
#2072
Racer
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I think you have brough an excellent point!! People complain when Acura/Honda copies something (looks too much like a Toyota or a Nissan) yet complain when they don't copy their features. I think we should embrace individuality of car company and appreciate their strength and move to another brand if they don't carry what we want. If all cars were made the same, it would be pretty boring!! I like Acura for what they offer which is why I am driving one still today, the day they stop exciting me, I'll move somewhere else until they offer something to bring me back. I am not sure why everyone think that what THEY want is what everyone else wants and it should be part of Acura's plan.
![ugh](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/ugh.gif)
#2073
kobi2002....SIMPLE....so you shouldn't buy one until you find it pretty
I looked at a g35 and thought it looked hideous, what did I do, left the dealership and looked at something else. I am not shutting Nissan/Infiniti forever, when its time for buying a new car, I'll look at whats available at that time.
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#2074
Well, I don't know if its "unbelievable" but we've seen it before. Remember life before the MDX? HMC was the last to jump into the crossover SUV craze. Remember the first Accord V-6? Honda was blind sided by the Camry V-6 and had to rush and cram the old Legend 2.7 liter into the car while they finished up development on the J series.
By the same token, Honda has led the way with other products: First all aluminum chassis, first to comply with 1975 US Clean Air Act, first hybrid, first practical fuel cell, first with 4 wheel steer, first Japanese to set up a US factory...
Honda is going to do what Honda wants to do. This spirit of independence is what attracted many of us to the brand. Now it seems that everyone wants Honda to follow what everyone else does (RWD, V-8, Turbos for example) I can only wonder; if they were doing this all along, would we have been captivated by the brand?
By the same token, Honda has led the way with other products: First all aluminum chassis, first to comply with 1975 US Clean Air Act, first hybrid, first practical fuel cell, first with 4 wheel steer, first Japanese to set up a US factory...
Honda is going to do what Honda wants to do. This spirit of independence is what attracted many of us to the brand. Now it seems that everyone wants Honda to follow what everyone else does (RWD, V-8, Turbos for example) I can only wonder; if they were doing this all along, would we have been captivated by the brand?
The NSX was a great accomplishment (and still one of my favorite cars) and it looks have worn very well but Honda let it get stale by not introducing an all new powerplant. At its introduction it was a Ferrari killer for a bargain, and by the time the 2000s rolled around, when it came to bang-for-your-buck, the NSX was considered overpriced, especially considering what the competition had.
Being different is nice and all, but in this case, for Honda, they are beginning to get left behind in regards to technological advancements and "firsts". Nothing from Honda recently dazzles me in terms of being the first, or even being one of the first. They now seem satisfied with being among the last.
The TL is inevitably going to go to a RWD/AWD platform and either a V8 or F/I V6 as it grows larger and larger with each generation. I'm pretty sure there's a good reason why you don't see FWD cars that weigh close to 4,000 lbs with close to 400 horsepower. I would like to see Honda be the first Japanese automaker to have a 400 hp FWD luxury sedan. That would be interesting to say the least (tongue in cheek)
#2075
Changin bulbs since '73
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Great discussion!
I think they reason Honda/Acura (the fact that I always mention them together is reason enough) is brand perception. Do you need a 6AT...no. But, these are supposed to be luxury cars. They have to be class leading or with the pack. People in this demographic want the latest and greatest...not what "is enough" The TL does not exude a sense of solidity that it's competitors do.
I think they reason Honda/Acura (the fact that I always mention them together is reason enough) is brand perception. Do you need a 6AT...no. But, these are supposed to be luxury cars. They have to be class leading or with the pack. People in this demographic want the latest and greatest...not what "is enough" The TL does not exude a sense of solidity that it's competitors do.
#2076
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Should a car always get bigger with each passing generation? I mean in 10 years do we expect this car to be longer than a football field?
I think the TL has been stripped off its sporty look. I cant say much about the performance since I have not driven it yet.
My wife owns a TL and I have loved its size and sporty look. I own a 04 maxima and always thought that Nissan had screwed up by making it expansive and robbing it off its legend.
Well 5 years down the line, guess what? Acura has done the same to its soon to be legendary 3rd gen TL. It has come a full circle, the max has gotten shorter, wider,faster and sportier. Trust me when I say this---RIDES AND FEELS AS GOOD AS THE TL TYPE S(current gen).
Now that we are both in the market again for cars. She is going the BMW route and I will probably go with the maxima. I will however drive the TL to see if the drive/performance/handling can make me get over the size and exterior.
I think the TL has been stripped off its sporty look. I cant say much about the performance since I have not driven it yet.
My wife owns a TL and I have loved its size and sporty look. I own a 04 maxima and always thought that Nissan had screwed up by making it expansive and robbing it off its legend.
Well 5 years down the line, guess what? Acura has done the same to its soon to be legendary 3rd gen TL. It has come a full circle, the max has gotten shorter, wider,faster and sportier. Trust me when I say this---RIDES AND FEELS AS GOOD AS THE TL TYPE S(current gen).
Now that we are both in the market again for cars. She is going the BMW route and I will probably go with the maxima. I will however drive the TL to see if the drive/performance/handling can make me get over the size and exterior.
#2077
Not an Ashtray
You just answered your own question. The 3rd generation TL did not receive any notable new features over the years, yet it still managed to outsell the IS and G35 even when they first debuted. It has only been recently that the G35 has started to sell more than the TL on some months. Same for the IS. As you can see, the lack of any notable upgrades through out the year and the lack of options that match the competition item for item clearly did not affect the TL's sales significantly. Why would you think it would affect the 4th generations? The IS and G are only getting older and the G was getting domestic-like lease/sales offers after it's first year. There is a reason why Infiniti has to update the G more often and have it on a four-year cycle instead of the standard of at least 5 years for this class. Even with the G's more frequent upgrades and lower MSRP, the TL still managed to have a lead in the overall generation sales.
As far as having a 5 speed auto still... I think it is a pretty well known fact that the next TL will be based off of a RWD chassis. Acura has stated that this TL is a strong direction of where they are headed but it is NOT their definition of a tier one car. Clearly, the lack of a more advanced powertrain is what restricts Acura from calling this their tier one car. If you were spending your money, would you develop a 6 or 7 speed transmission that will be used in a FWD based car for only ONE generation and then spend even more money to develop a 6 or 7 speed transmission for the next generation car that will be RWD based? The SMART thing to do (what Acura is doing) is to hold off until the next generation model that will be on a completely different chassis and THEN give it a new transmission that you can use on the following generations after. This is what Acura is doing. Right now the G35x gets 17/23 MPG. The TL SH-AWD also using a 5sp auto gets 17/25 MPG. I doubt the G37X will be more than 1 MPG within the TL SH-AWD. The 2008 Infiniti FX35 AWD with a 5 speed auto gets 15/22 MPG. The new 2009 FX35 AWD with 7 speed auto gets 16/21. It DROPPED one MPG on the highway, thus keeping the average MPG exactly the same as the 5 speed version. I don't know about you, but something tells me that Acura will be far more capable to improve their fuel economy with the new transmission when compared to the current 5 speed.
As far as having a 5 speed auto still... I think it is a pretty well known fact that the next TL will be based off of a RWD chassis. Acura has stated that this TL is a strong direction of where they are headed but it is NOT their definition of a tier one car. Clearly, the lack of a more advanced powertrain is what restricts Acura from calling this their tier one car. If you were spending your money, would you develop a 6 or 7 speed transmission that will be used in a FWD based car for only ONE generation and then spend even more money to develop a 6 or 7 speed transmission for the next generation car that will be RWD based? The SMART thing to do (what Acura is doing) is to hold off until the next generation model that will be on a completely different chassis and THEN give it a new transmission that you can use on the following generations after. This is what Acura is doing. Right now the G35x gets 17/23 MPG. The TL SH-AWD also using a 5sp auto gets 17/25 MPG. I doubt the G37X will be more than 1 MPG within the TL SH-AWD. The 2008 Infiniti FX35 AWD with a 5 speed auto gets 15/22 MPG. The new 2009 FX35 AWD with 7 speed auto gets 16/21. It DROPPED one MPG on the highway, thus keeping the average MPG exactly the same as the 5 speed version. I don't know about you, but something tells me that Acura will be far more capable to improve their fuel economy with the new transmission when compared to the current 5 speed.
And, even if the next TL is RWD - let's keep in mind that the next TL is due in five more years and that most of us are interested in buying the TL NOW. So, what the 5th generation TL will look like is of little interest.
I also don't see why a future RWD TL would preclude a FWD TL with a more modern tranny now. You can get a 6-speed automatic on many econoboxes from non-premium brands NOW. First, from the customer's perspective, it really doesn't matter if it would be cost efficient for Honda to develop a 6-speed. I'll buy the car that is available to me with the best features. Second, cost efficiency is not really an issue because aspects of the development cost would be passed on to the Accord and other mass market cars.
As for the G, the 3.7L is actually slightly more efficient than the 3.5L. This is why the heavier G37 coupe actually gets 1 MPG more in the city than the G35 sedan (although shorter, coupe actually weighs 200 pounds more). I'm expecting the RWD G37 sedan to get somewhere between 18 and 19 in the city and between 25 and 26 on the highway. You can subtract about 1 - 2 MPG for AWD.
The MPG of the heavier, less aerodynamic vehicle with a less efficient engine tells us next to nothing.
Last edited by darth62; 08-24-2008 at 01:32 PM.
#2078
They don't always get bigger. In the transition from 2G to 3G the TL lost length 193" to 189". The addition of all wheel drive takes up space and would have resulted in a G35 coupe sized trunk if they didn't make the car larger. The new car is slightly longer at 195 than the 2nd gen TL.
#2079
Not an Ashtray
They don't always get bigger. In the transition from 2G to 3G the TL lost length 193" to 189". The addition of all wheel drive takes up space and would have resulted in a G35 coupe sized trunk if they didn't make the car larger. The new car is slightly longer at 195 than the 2nd gen TL.
#2080
The MDX is only 190 long but is 78 inches wide! The RDX is a tiny 180 long and 74 wide (from memory) so this car is bigger or wider than both of our SUVs. I was making the point that it needed to grow to have an acceptable amount of interior space with the AWD drivetrain added.